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Tags glenn beck , racism charges

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Old 9th January 2022, 08:49 AM   #41
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
You never cease to amaze with your naive credulousness toward right-wing figures like Beck and Trump.
Oh please. This was an easy one to call. The OP was stupid, jumped the gun on a conspiracy theory which didn't make any sense, because Checkmite couldn't even conceive of a non-racist interpretation for something which had an obvious one. Not everyone you hate is consumed by racism.

And I'll give you an example of the reverse, where the right jumped on someone on the left for a perceived transgression which didn't really make sense. That was the whole Biden supposedly saying "Look, fat" to someone (who was overweight) who questioned him. His pronunciation wasn't great, the audio can sound like he could be saying that, but his explanation and almost certainly the correct one was that he said, "Look, fact", as he then went on to give some explanation for his position. "Fat" is an adjective, not a noun. "Fatty" is a noun. "Fatso" is a noun. But "Fat" is an adjective, and it doesn't work to call someone "fat" as a noun. And using "fact" like that is the sort of verbal pattern Biden uses. "Fat" didn't make sense, "fact" did,

I don't have to think Biden is the sort of guy who wouldn't insult voters to come to that conclusion, and no one should ever believe a politician wouldn't lie about what they said. There are other examples of Biden insulting the people he talks to. But this specific example isn't one of them. Likewise with Beck: whatever you think of him overall, this specific thing doesn't represent what the OP claims it does. All you have to do is take your blinders off, and it becomes pretty obvious. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you have to start liking Beck. Seriously, if you want to talk about credulousness here, look to Checkmite, not me.
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Old 9th January 2022, 09:48 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh please. This was an easy one to call. The OP was stupid, jumped the gun on a conspiracy theory which didn't make any sense, because Checkmite couldn't even conceive of a non-racist interpretation for something which had an obvious one. Not everyone you hate is consumed by racism.

And I'll give you an example of the reverse, where the right jumped on someone on the left for a perceived transgression which didn't really make sense. That was the whole Biden supposedly saying "Look, fat" to someone (who was overweight) who questioned him. His pronunciation wasn't great, the audio can sound like he could be saying that, but his explanation and almost certainly the correct one was that he said, "Look, fact", as he then went on to give some explanation for his position. "Fat" is an adjective, not a noun. "Fatty" is a noun. "Fatso" is a noun. But "Fat" is an adjective, and it doesn't work to call someone "fat" as a noun. And using "fact" like that is the sort of verbal pattern Biden uses. "Fat" didn't make sense, "fact" did,

I don't have to think Biden is the sort of guy who wouldn't insult voters to come to that conclusion, and no one should ever believe a politician wouldn't lie about what they said. There are other examples of Biden insulting the people he talks to. But this specific example isn't one of them. Likewise with Beck: whatever you think of him overall, this specific thing doesn't represent what the OP claims it does. All you have to do is take your blinders off, and it becomes pretty obvious. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you have to start liking Beck. Seriously, if you want to talk about credulousness here, look to Checkmite, not me.
"Body of work".
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Old 9th January 2022, 10:08 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
"Body of work".
If you've got an argument for why I'm wrong, put it forward.

If you just don't like the side I'm taking, **** off.
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Old 9th January 2022, 10:18 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If you've got an argument for why I'm wrong, put it forward.
I just did.

Quote:
If you just don't like the side I'm taking, **** off.
Adding to your own body of work, I see.
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Old 9th January 2022, 10:22 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I just did.
That wasn't an argument. That didn't even resemble an argument. It was, in fact, an attempt at avoiding having to make any argument.
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Old 9th January 2022, 10:56 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
But you didn't notice the date that was published, which was January 6th, the day after his commercial aired and his having the photograph on his wall was called out.
BTW, two other notes on this.

First, I made this mistake too, it's an easy one to make, but it's not a photograph, it's a painting. Compare it to the actual photograph and you'll see some differences.

Second, yes, the date of the web page is the day after his commercial aired. But if you go over to the YouTube video, the date the video went up was January 5, NOT January 6. So it went up pretty much immediately, and nothing about it suggests it was posted in response to any "callout". And the only high profile callout I can even find is from Chris Hayes, which is on the 6th, a day after Beck posted both the commercial and his explanation for the painting. So you have the sequence of events backwards.
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Old 9th January 2022, 11:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Verb " to own someone"; see this post ^.
Except, as it turns out, not so much.
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Old 9th January 2022, 11:13 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But if you go over to the YouTube video, the date the video went up was January 5, NOT January 6.
When I go to the video, I see this:

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Old 9th January 2022, 11:22 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
When I go to the video, I see this:

I'm still seeing Jan. 5. Possibly a time zone difference. If it was posted late Jan 5 east coast US time, it could be after midnight London time, pushing it to the 6th for you.

Even late on the 5th, it's still before the Hayes tweet.
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Old 9th January 2022, 11:47 AM   #50
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Anyways, exact time stamp on that video doesn't really matter. Beck was telling the same story about that painting 8 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHsffmSSDxM&t=1876s

If you're still looking for a way to interpret this painting as racist, you're failing C.S. Lewis's test.
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Old 9th January 2022, 11:51 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Glenn Beck, a prominent member of the right-wing media machine in the US, is lately on a junket of sorts with former-President Trump - one which hasn't been selling quite as well as had been hoped; but that's not my focus right now.

A few nights ago an interview between Beck and Trump was televised, and in the middle this happened, a short interlude in which Beck, sitting at home, takes some time to spread the good word about diet supplements:



Beck hawking quackery Alex-Jones-style isn't my focus either; it's the grift most of these guys are running in the COVID era and there's not a whole lot to add on that subject. I want to focus on what's behind Beck. That blown-up photograph, framed and mounted on the wall back there. For some reason, this shot - and it's an extended, static one of Beck talking - seems almost consciously framed to include the entirety of that image.

You may not recognize what that's a photo of, so I'll tell you. It's of the end of a boxing match on June 19, 1936 between not-yet-world-champion Joe Louis and Germany's top fighter of the era, Max Schmeling. This is the moment in the 12th round when, after having had Louis on the back foot for the duration of the match, Schmeling finally knocked him down for good and Louis was counted out.

If you were an American at this time in history, this moment sucked hard. Louis hadn't won the championship yet and this wasn't a title fight, but he was a famous up-and-comer, he was a strong American boxer, and he'd just been defeated by a German, the time in his entire career that Louis had been knocked out. The American media, which at that time was still unabashedly racist in its coverage of black fighters, at least still wanted them to win against other countries' boxers, and particularly ones seen as geopolitical enemies.

If you were the people running Germany in 1936, it was a different story obviously. The victory was an unfettered domestic PR coup for the Nazi government. In post-fight interviews Schmeling dedicated the victory to Germany and the Fuehrer; Adolf Hitler sent Schmeling's wife flowers. Images of Louis's defeat, especially this one due to its framing - visibly depicting the German standing triumphantly as the referee counts over the fallen American, the fallen black man - were extensively used in propaganda at the time, and again two years later leading up to the rematch.

Oh yeah, the rematch. A year after this loss, Joe Louis won his first world champion title. And a year after that, he would fight Schmeling again, this time in a title match that both the American and German press politicized the hell out of as essentially a proxy battle between the US and Nazi Germany. Schmeling himself wasn't a dedicated Nazi personally, but he was treated by the Nazis as a national symbol of German political and racial superiority nonetheless. An actual Nazi Party representative accompanied Schmeling's team, and reassured the world that the conclusion of the upcoming fight was forgone - Schmeling had already shown he could defeat Louis solidly, and it was impossible for a black man to defeat a German in any case.

The rematch fight took place on June 22, 1938. It didn't last a round; in two minutes, Louis absolutely demolished Schmeling - demolished as in, Schmeling was finally released from the hospital a week and a half later. The American press called Joe Louis a hero, and also "a jungle man, primitive as any savage". That's really all there is to say as far as that goes.

But now we've got this photo, of Joe Louis being defeated in the first fight. And it is enlarged and handsomely displayed on the wall at Glenn Beck's home. Why does Glenn Beck, who is an American, have this photograph of the moment of an American being beaten down by a representative of Nazi Germany on his wall? Is it because the winner is from Nazi Germany? Is it because the loser on the ground is a black man? Or would Beck contend he is wholly ignorant of the context of the photograph and the actual people in it and just thought it was a "neat boxing photo"? Why did he frame the shot for this commercial seemingly with intention to include the photograph? I can think of no good answers to these questions.
What a brilliant catch.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:03 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Anyways, exact time stamp on that video doesn't really matter. Beck was telling the same story about that painting 8 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHsffmSSDxM&t=1876s

If you're still looking for a way to interpret this painting as racist, you're failing C.S. Lewis's test.

There isn't any need to interpret anything. Glenn Beck is a straight up ******* racist.. He has shown his history of racist tirades and dogwhisltes multiple times for over a decade...

https://www.mediamatters.org/glenn-b...arged-rhetoric

http://www.timwise.org/2010/07/readi...-applications/

https://newsone.com/1087485/glenn-beck-racist-quotes/
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:09 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There isn't any need to interpret anything.
This thread isn't about Beck's entire history. It's about one specific image. And the OP engages in a whole lot of interpreting, which every bit of actual evidence (which nobody but me bothered to look for) indicates is wrong.

Yet you still want to cling to that wrong interpretation. Why? Because it's fake but accurate?

You have indeed failed the C.S. Lewis test.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:13 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Anyways, exact time stamp on that video doesn't really matter. Beck was telling the same story about that painting 8 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHsffmSSDxM&t=1876s

If you're still looking for a way to interpret this painting as racist, you're failing C.S. Lewis's test.
So what we have is Beck, who has shown racist tendencies in the past, painting a picture for inspirational purposes that depicts a low point for an iconic member of the race he has shown racist tendencies toward.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:24 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Anyways, exact time stamp on that video doesn't really matter. Beck was telling the same story about that painting 8 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHsffmSSDxM&t=1876s

If you're still looking for a way to interpret this painting as racist, you're failing C.S. Lewis's test.
Perhaps it is a bit like a spouse losing 100 pounds and getting down to a nice, trim weight and the other spouse celebrating the diet by sharing a picture of how fat the spouse was before the diet. Tone-deaf at a bare minimum, more likely some form of being passive-aggressive.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:25 PM   #56
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Lefties really need to knock of the habitual claims of mind-reading.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yet you still want to cling to that wrong interpretation. Why? Because it's fake but accurate?
I can't speak for smartcooky, but I think we're past the point where plausible excuses can be made for having 1930s German culture around, a proclivity that an awful damn lot of right-wingers seem to share.

If he's familiar enough with the image to appreciate its message of resilience and determination, he surely is not unfamiliar with its larger place in 20th century culture and how it would be perceived by the far-right wingers watching his shilling, especially given his career as a showman. If it was not his deliberate intent to dogwhistle Nazi propaganda it would not have been there.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:31 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This thread isn't about Beck's entire history. It's about one specific image. And the OP engages in a whole lot of interpreting, which every bit of actual evidence (which nobody but me bothered to look for) indicates is wrong.

Yet you still want to cling to that wrong interpretation. Why? Because it's fake but accurate?

You have indeed failed the C.S. Lewis test.
There is more going on: we have a media figure, whose job it is to figure out what to communicate and how, having an exculpatory but invisible motivation for prominently displaying a picture that his audience will read in a manner opposite to his stated purpose, most likely.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:32 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I can't speak for smartcooky, but I think we're past the point where plausible excuses can be made for having 1930s German culture around, a proclivity that an awful damn lot of right-wingers seem to share.

If he's familiar enough with the image to appreciate its message of resilience and determination, he surely is not unfamiliar with its larger place in 20th century culture and how it would be perceived by the far-right wingers watching his shilling, especially given his career as a showman. If it was not his deliberate intent to dogwhistle Nazi propaganda it would not have been there.
Dog whistle is perhaps better than my tone-deaf and passive-aggressive.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:43 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
If he's familiar enough with the image to appreciate its message of resilience and determination, he surely is not unfamiliar with its larger place in 20th century culture and how it would be perceived by the far-right wingers watching his shilling, especially given his career as a showman. If it was not his deliberate intent to dogwhistle Nazi propaganda it would not have been there.
The only people we know have interpreted the image as having any pro-Nazi meaning are left wingers. Again, given the history of what happened after that image, it's not effective Nazi propaganda even if someone wanted to send a pro-Nazi message. And Beck wasn't hiding that subsequent history, he was talking about it all along. It's the left wingers who only see the Chris Hayes tweet, not his actual right wing audience, which didn't hear him talk about that stuff.

You're desperately spinning for a way to make this bad, when it just isn't. You're failing the C.S. Lewis test on purpose. That's just pathetic.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:47 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Anyways, exact time stamp on that video doesn't really matter. Beck was telling the same story about that painting 8 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHsffmSSDxM&t=1876s

If you're still looking for a way to interpret this painting as racist, you're failing C.S. Lewis's test.

You just put this delusion down for the 10 count with one swift kick right to the bottom-surgery. I wouldn't expect a concession from your opponent, he has a hard time admitting when he is wrong.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:48 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
There is more going on: we have a media figure, whose job it is to figure out what to communicate and how, having an exculpatory but invisible motivation for prominently displaying a picture that his audience will read in a manner opposite to his stated purpose, most likely.
Invisible? His "exculpatory" motive wasn't invisible. He talked about it publicly multiple times. His actual audience heard him. It's the people who are NOT in his audience, who only get the screen capture from Chris Hayes, who don't hear his actual stated purpose AND who are predisposed to interpret everything in the worst light, who are taking it in a manner opposite to its stated purpose.

Beck isn't responsible for that misinterpretation, Hayes and anyone who believes him uncritically are.

This entire thread is an exercise in proving C.S. Lewis right.
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Old 9th January 2022, 12:50 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You're grasping at straws. The entire point of the OP was the message Beck was trying to send. You can claim it's a lie (though you have no evidence), but if what Beck keeps talking about is an inspiring story of a comeback, then that's obviously the message he's trying to send, regardless of how honestly you think he believes it himself.
The reason I don’t accept the “getting off the canvas” redemption story is that there was a 2 year gap between the fights. It isn’t like Joe dusted himself off and said “see you next week”.

I think it’s far more likely that Beck has a photo showing Louis’ humiliation because he enjoys looking at that humiliation.
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Old 9th January 2022, 01:03 PM   #64
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The only people we know have interpreted the image as having any pro-Nazi meaning are left wingers. Again, given the history of what happened after that image, it's not effective Nazi propaganda even if someone wanted to send a pro-Nazi message. And Beck wasn't hiding that subsequent history, he was talking about it all along. It's the left wingers who only see the Chris Hayes tweet, not his actual right wing audience, which didn't hear him talk about that stuff.

You're desperately spinning for a way to make this bad, when it just isn't. You're failing the C.S. Lewis test on purpose. That's just pathetic.
Maybe you didn't read my post? I don't care what the excuse is. I never see any of them with pickelhaubes or berliners, just Nazi-adjacent media and completely innocent justifications, every last one.
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Old 9th January 2022, 01:05 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You have indeed failed the C.S. Lewis test.
That test is a bit racist, though. I mean he even says "You see, one is beginning to wish that black was a little blacker" like it's a bad thing!
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Old 9th January 2022, 01:07 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The reason I don’t accept the “getting off the canvas” redemption story is that there was a 2 year gap between the fights. It isn’t like Joe dusted himself off and said “see you next week”.
That doesn't make sense. Why does it matter exactly how fast it takes to bounce back, if you bounce back? In fact, the message that you have to bounce back immediately isn't actually very inspiring.

And Louis didn't need to wait 2 years to get back up. He had a victory in his next match just two months later. It took 2 years before a rematch with Schmeling, but he was back on top much earlier than that.

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I think it’s far more likely that Beck has a photo showing Louis’ humiliation because he enjoys looking at that humiliation.
It's not a photo. And if he had wanted an image of Louis' humiliation, he should have picked one from Louis' loss against Marciano, since that defeat was the end of his career. Your interpretation isn't more likely, you believe it because it flatters your biases.
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Old 9th January 2022, 01:11 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Maybe you didn't read my post? I don't care what the excuse is. I never see any of them with pickelhaubes or berliners, just Nazi-adjacent media and completely innocent justifications, every last one.
I read your post, your argument is just ********. It's not "Nazi-adjacent".
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Old 9th January 2022, 01:58 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I read your post, your argument is just ********. It's not "Nazi-adjacent".
It was literally used for Nazi propaganda. You must know this because you did all the digging to find Glenn Beck's totally-not-BS excuse for displaying this Nazi propaganda, which surely involved looking at the wikipedia page for the fight that talks about how it was literally used for Nazi propaganda. If, knowing that it was literally used for Nazi propaganda, you still don't see any connection, I can only interpret your post as "whaaaat? What whistle? I don't hear aaaanything, it must be your hateful imagination!"
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:02 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
It was literally used for Nazi propaganda.
Was. Not is. It only worked as Nazi propaganda before Louis had his comeback. It doesn't mean now what it meant then. I'm not sure why that's a hard concept for you to grasp. I have to conclude that you're invested in not grasping it.
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:11 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Was. Not is. It only worked as Nazi propaganda before Louis had his comeback. It doesn't mean now what it meant then. I'm not sure why that's a hard concept for you to grasp. I have to conclude that you're invested in not grasping it.
"You don't get it, it's too high pitched, no one will hear it."
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:22 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Was. Not is.
The Nazi party isn't a thing anymore. Flying the swastika doesn't have any Nazi implications, amirite?
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:33 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
The Nazi party isn't a thing anymore. Flying the swastika doesn't have any Nazi implications, amirite?
That's not remotely similar.

And it's really quite amazing how many people are still stuck on trying to prove some ill intent on Beck's part even after the original narrative completely fell apart. I'm sure Beck will say something stupid eventually that you can legitimately get your knickers in a twist over. This isn't it. Just take the loss and go home. You're embarrassing yourself at this point.
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:34 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
"You don't get it, it's too high pitched, no one will hear it."
If you can hear the whistle, you're the dog.
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:38 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's not remotely similar.
Well, you know it wasn't always associated with Nazism, right? And the Nazi Germany aren't using it now, are they? If context doesn't matter, what's the problem?
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Old 9th January 2022, 02:56 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Well, you know it wasn't always associated with Nazism, right? And the Nazi Germany aren't using it now, are they? If context doesn't matter, what's the problem?
Context does matter. That's the whole ******* point. You're ignoring the context, not me.
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Old 9th January 2022, 03:05 PM   #76
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Glenn Beck is a racist POS, but Schmeling wasn’t much of a Nazi. He and Louis were friends in the 50s. IIRC Schmeling got a Coca-Cola franchise in West Germany, and Louis wasn’t doing so well, and Max helped him out.

(Any spelling errors Are my own here on phone)
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Old 9th January 2022, 03:12 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Context does matter. That's the whole ******* point. You're ignoring the context, not me.
Previously...
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This thread isn't about Beck's entire history. It's about one specific image.
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Old 9th January 2022, 03:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Previously...
Welcome to Upchurch's most recent episode of "Intentional misunderstanding".
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Old 9th January 2022, 03:25 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Welcome to Upchurch's most recent episode of "Intentional misunderstanding".
It follows directly after "I Want It Both Ways!"
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Old 9th January 2022, 03:29 PM   #80
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Nevermind. There's really no point in continuing this exchange. The OP has been thoroughly debunked, nothing more need be said.
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