IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Florida incidents , road rage incidents , shooting incidents

Reply
Old 13th January 2022, 05:49 PM   #41
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 55,740
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Hey, BMW makes a fine car. It's not their fault tiny ego weirdos like them so much.
Given what we know about marketing, I'm pretty sure it is their fault.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 06:36 PM   #42
ZiprHead
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sag-Nasty
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Well, I drive a Prius, so don't **** with me.
(Backing away slowly)

Sorry...
__________________
When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

IIDB is back, baby!
ZiprHead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2022, 06:39 PM   #43
ZiprHead
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sag-Nasty
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Stolen.
__________________
When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

IIDB is back, baby!
ZiprHead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 06:23 AM   #44
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 12,944
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
How much was it, if you don't mind me asking?
I paid about $300 for it, if I can recall. It was a used Taurus PT-92 9mm pistol of late 80's vintage.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 06:34 AM   #45
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 36,867
Dude imagine if you could hook the taser directly to the Prius's batteries..
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 07:23 AM   #46
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,997
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No one has mentioned alcohol. Not sure if the autopsy result will be released but I'd bet on it showing DUI. And I'd bet in the previous incident the cops didn't test for intoxication.
That might be the case, that John Kuczwanski was intoxicated. Because his behavior was totally over-the-top. From the news report:
Quote:
Kuczwanski rammed his BMW into the Prius on the driver’s door, and began pushing the car sideways in the parking lot...Kuczwanski then shot a gun at the white Prius, according to the sources.
A mental health issue might explain it, too. Kuczwanski was completely out of control. There is no way a rational person could justify reacting that way.

I do feel sorry for his family. His wife, Rebekah Kuczwanski, posted on Twitter:
Quote:
“He was on his way home early to pick us up for a farewell dinner for our daughter,” she wrote. “He called to say he was on his way to beat traffic. He was excited for dinner and to see us. He told us he loved us then never came home.”
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:25 PM   #47
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 27,374
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's surprising that a nut job like that could hold a professional job. I mean, how did he get that far without like eating the face of someone who expressed disapproval of his budget proposal for the upcoming fiscal year?
Weapons are not permitted inside the Florida State Capitol. Not being allowed to carry a hammer makes all the nails just kind of disappear it seems.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:33 PM   #48
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 11,554
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Dude imagine if you could hook the taser directly to the Prius's batteries..
You'd have to do it early in the trip or you'd end up just giving them the equivalent of a static shock.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:45 PM   #49
MarkCorrigan
Winter is Coming
 
MarkCorrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,819
What a ******* dumbass.

I especially like his wife claiming he was assassinated. Lady, people who are assassinated don't tend to open fire first.

At least she found someone of equal intellect to marry.
__________________
Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz

When I give food to the poor they call me a saint, when I ask why the poor have no food they call me a communist - Hélder Câmara
MarkCorrigan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 12:48 PM   #50
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 11,554
I wonder if they get any form of insurance payout? I understand if they did for the initial vehicle accident, but he initiated his own death.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 03:17 PM   #51
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,221
Quote:
“He was on his way home early to pick us up for a farewell dinner for our daughter,” she wrote. “He called to say he was on his way to beat traffic. He was excited for dinner and to see us. He told us he loved us then never came home.”

Understatement.
__________________
Stop feeding the trolls PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 03:39 PM   #52
Warp12
Illuminator
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 3,678
Quote:
The investigation into what occurred is still ongoing.

There are conflicting reports about what happened, though it appears events escalated to fatal violence following a traffic incident.
Something with the chain of events seems odd. First, what was the positioning of the vehicles that led to him ramming the Prius in the driver side door, and pushing it? Was he blocked in? Second, if he was shot through the windshield, how was he engaging in the gunfire? With his left hand out the window?

Obviously they must have plenty of evidence outside of the testimony of the gunfight winner. The whole scenario seems odd.

ETA: Not quite sure how much evidence they do have. Police are asking for any witnesses and those who may have video evidence to come forth, to help with the investIgation.
__________________
"A culture is only as great as its dreams, and its dreams are dreamed by artists." - L. Ron Hubbard

Last edited by Warp12; 14th January 2022 at 04:11 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 04:21 PM   #53
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 14,733
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I wonder if they get any form of insurance payout? I understand if they did for the initial vehicle accident, but he initiated his own death.
Life insurance usually pays unless there's evidence of actual suicide, and not even that after a waiting period. But I suspect the Prius driver has a huge claim against his attacker's estate.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 07:24 PM   #54
Arisia
Graduate Poster
 
Arisia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Near Wa-Wa-Wachusett
Posts: 1,052
'A man's Prius is his castle'?


We're ending up in Florida during a road trip in the near future (Ormond Beach is the turnaround point)... driving a new Prius Prime... think we'll have any trouble if we stay on the Atlantic coast of FL?
Arisia is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2022, 07:32 PM   #55
Spyke
Critical Thinker
 
Spyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PEI, Canada
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I paid about $300 for it, if I can recall. It was a used Taurus PT-92 9mm pistol of late 80's vintage.
I used to have one those, god I loved that weapon. Fit my hand perfectly and was very point and shoot, didn't require concentrated aiming.

Thanks for the memories. Dad was a Range Officer with Prohibited Weapon permits so I grew up around thousands of weapons, unlike most of my Canadian friends.
__________________
Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking. --Ferdinand Foch--

Last edited by Spyke; 14th January 2022 at 07:33 PM.
Spyke is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 12:15 AM   #56
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 14,796
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
A good guy with a gun will always stop a.......
... Republican legislator?
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 06:27 PM   #57
ZiprHead
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sag-Nasty
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Something with the chain of events seems odd. First, what was the positioning of the vehicles that led to him ramming the Prius in the driver side door, and pushing it? Was he blocked in? Second, if he was shot through the windshield, how was he engaging in the gunfire? With his left hand out the window?
Actually that's exactly how i'm envisioning how it went down. You're not allowed to leave the scene of an accident even if you feel the need to shoot your way out.
__________________
When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

IIDB is back, baby!

Last edited by ZiprHead; 15th January 2022 at 06:29 PM.
ZiprHead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 07:34 PM   #58
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 20,136
Originally Posted by Warp12
Something with the chain of events seems odd. First, what was the positioning of the vehicles that led to him ramming the Prius in the driver side door, and pushing it? Was he blocked in? Second, if he was shot through the windshield, how was he engaging in the gunfire? With his left hand out the window?
I really don't give a fat rat's arse how it went down. The gun nut opened fire first and that dick move got him shot dead! Case closed!

I would like to express my thanks to that Prius driver for saving us all from yet another endless, tedious thread where all the gun apologists from the Kyle Rittenhouse thread would have been here arguing that Kuczwanski was somehow rightly in fear for his life after the accident and was fully justified in shooting at the Prius driver.

Its a pity something like this didn't happen in Kenosha on August 25, 2020 - a couple of other families might not be missing their sons and partners!
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
Those who agree with me may not always be right, but nonetheless, I admire their astuteness.
Cullen Hightower
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 07:45 PM   #59
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 36,867
I'm totally shocked that as in every scenario where the person on the right is the obvious bad guy the situation will "seem odd" to your standard rollcall of RightTrolls.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th January 2022, 09:12 PM   #60
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,997
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm totally shocked that as in every scenario where the person on the right is the obvious bad guy the situation will "seem odd" to your standard rollcall of RightTrolls.
It's like waiting for the other shoe to drop.
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:43 AM   #61
Lurch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,969
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It says a lot about the state of things there that both of them were armed when they were just out driving somewhere, and then felt that a shoot-out was the first and only correct way to settle their differences. Is driving with a gun and a piss-poor attitude mandatory or something in Florida? I am NEVER going there!
This is why I snort derisively when gun nuts crow about all that "law abiding citizen" crap. One is law abiding until one is not. In the heat of the moment, having a gun ready to hand is just asking for regrets. And I think the stats show that the erstwhile "good guy with a gun" ends up killing a family member, or himself, or gets killed by another's gun, before he takes out the "bad guy with a gun." In other words, this self defense strategy is actually more inimical to health than is staying clear of guns.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:47 AM   #62
Lurch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,969
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I thought an armed society is a polite society......
Another 'meme' of the Right. Really, an armed society is a paranoid society.

Why are robbers in the US so much more quick to start blasting than in most other places? Because most of the 300 million guns overflowing the country are in the possession of their victims.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:52 AM   #63
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 12,944
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Something with the chain of events seems odd. First, what was the positioning of the vehicles that led to him ramming the Prius in the driver side door, and pushing it? Was he blocked in? Second, if he was shot through the windshield, how was he engaging in the gunfire? With his left hand out the window?

Obviously they must have plenty of evidence outside of the testimony of the gunfight winner. The whole scenario seems odd.

ETA: Not quite sure how much evidence they do have. Police are asking for any witnesses and those who may have video evidence to come forth, to help with the investIgation.
We'll probably never know because he's dead and can't tell his side of it. Either the man who shot him was right, or he has the good sense to lie about it and paint himself the victim.

Considering his prior arrest for armed road rage, seems like the given story is pretty plausible.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:11 AM   #64
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26,319
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
We'll probably never know because he's dead and can't tell his side of it. Either the man who shot him was right, or he has the good sense to lie about it and paint himself the victim.

Considering his prior arrest for armed road rage, seems like the given story is pretty plausible.
No dashcam footage?
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:14 AM   #65
Lurch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,969
The Right lionizes Rittenhouse (or is it Rittenhaus?), but will likely denigrate, or at best ignore, Mr. Prius.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:54 AM   #66
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 12,944
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I thought an armed society is a polite society......
I suppose there's a grim calculus to this. Instead of spending a lifetime committing a series of unarmed road rage assaults, this guy's career was cut short. Because he had access to a gun, he was bound to remove himself from society, either by being shot dead or by getting locked up for the inevitable murder.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:22 AM   #67
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,746
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Something with the chain of events seems odd. First, what was the positioning of the vehicles that led to him ramming the Prius in the driver side door, and pushing it? Was he blocked in? Second, if he was shot through the windshield, how was he engaging in the gunfire? With his left hand out the window?

He may have bought his gun at Ned Flanders' Leftorium. Or he may have been dumb enough to shoot through his own windshield. He was dumb enough to deserve getting himself shot, so it doesn't seem odd at all.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:50 AM   #68
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,640
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm totally shocked that as in every scenario where the person on the right is the obvious bad guy the situation will "seem odd" to your standard rollcall of RightTrolls.
Only a matter of time until we discover that the Prius driver was "no angel."
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM   #69
malbui
Beauf
 
malbui's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Only a matter of time until we discover that the Prius driver was "no angel."
A minor drugs conviction 30 years ago would be sufficient for smearing.
__________________
"But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?"
malbui is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 10:57 AM   #70
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 36,867
Again it's a flex. It's intentional. The people who spent a year explaining to us how Rittenhouse was the savior of civilization will now act shocked, simply shocked I say, at this incident happened, the hypocrisy hanging in the air as one big chip just daring us to knock it off their shoulders.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM   #71
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 7,162
It's mildly gratifying that Krotchbumstead or whatever he called himself was a repluglican, and not all that surprising either, but (you knew a but was coming next) he could have been anything: a free silver advocate,
a falangist, a flat or flattish earther, a bircher -- not a Dem, probably, not in Ron Death's gummint, but whatever.

His problem was between his ears. I wonder if the autopsy will reveal a brain tumor.
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM   #72
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 14,796
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
His problem was between his ears. I wonder if the autopsy will reveal a brain tumor.
I wonder if it reveals a brain.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:47 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.