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Tags nato , Russia-Finland relations , Russia-Sweden relations , Russia-Ukraine war , vladimir putin

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Old 13th May 2022, 05:20 AM   #321
The Great Zaganza
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Turkey loves the NATO border it has with Russia and the attention that brings.
Finnland joining would diminish that.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:36 AM   #322
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Turkey doesn't have a border with Russia.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:38 AM   #323
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Turkey doesn't have a border with Russia.
Black Sea, Bosporus.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:39 AM   #324
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Erdogan also says it was a mistake to admit Greece to NATO.

That's a long time to hold a grudge.
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Old 13th May 2022, 07:14 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Black Sea, Bosporus.
That's not a border.
We had this discussion already
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:01 AM   #326
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FOr the record, the experts I have heard don't see Hungary or Turkey as being a major peoblem. They might make some noises, but in the end they will go along with Finland joining Nato.
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Old 13th May 2022, 03:05 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
FOr the record, the experts I have heard don't see Hungary or Turkey as being a major peoblem. They might make some noises, but in the end they will go along with Finland joining Nato.
Yep, they are milking for concessions. They won't actually sabotage Nato.
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Old 13th May 2022, 03:16 PM   #328
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Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday
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Old 13th May 2022, 03:43 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday
Pretty sure the Finnish Government expected this and alternative arrangements have been made.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:21 PM   #330
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Finnish analyst says he wants something:
Quote:
However, senior researcher at the Foreign Policy Institute, Toni Alaranta , considers Erdoğan's comments welcome, as Turkey sees an opportunity to negotiate with other NATO countries on issues that are important to him and concessions.

- The Turkish press has mentioned, among other things, the recognition of Northern Cyprus, the eradication of the activities of the PKK, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, from European countries, the eradication of the Gülen movement and the lifting of various arms embargoes, Alaranta lists.

- I assume that Turkey wants to negotiate all of these.

For example, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has reiterated in public how quickly Finland and Sweden's potential membership applications could be processed.
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12445335
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Old 13th May 2022, 09:08 PM   #331
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Yeah, the price of admission for Finland and Sweden is going to be selling Turkey the F-35. We've got enough lickey chewies to throw Hungary's way that they'll shut up and color.
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Old 14th May 2022, 02:50 AM   #332
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Turkey won't get the F-35, or recognition of Northern Cyprus, or any action against PKK or KWP or any of the others.
They are not in the power of NATO to give.
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Old 14th May 2022, 03:38 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Turkey won't get the F-35, or recognition of Northern Cyprus, or any action against PKK or KWP or any of the others.
They are not in the power of NATO to give.
The recognition of TRNC is in the power of individual member states to give. The big prize here is official recognition by the US and UK. It won’t happen, nor will the UN withdraw its forces.
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Old 14th May 2022, 03:57 AM   #334
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Quote:
With NATO news coverage, the Finnish Defense Forces have also received a global glow.

U.S. security policy-focused online media, JustSecurity , has published news describing our armed forces as “very strong”.

- Finland has very strong armed forces, which, as a result of years of partnership, are interoperable with NATO and would significantly increase NATO's combat power. For years, Finland has been a significant player in NATO-led operations in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq, the news reports.

According to US media, Finland's ability to use artillery fire power exceeds all other European countries.

- The country has strong air, artillery and missile fire power, naval and cyber capabilities, and the ability to rapidly mobilize 280,000 troops. It owns more tanks than Germany, the news lists.

France24 agrees with the same in its news release . The French media praises the number of Finnish soldiers and glows at the strong artillery of our armed forces.

- Finland's military power is impressive for a country of only 5.5 million people.

- Thanks to its well-funded, trained and ready-made army, it would increase NATO's ability to defend the Baltic states, which have long been in Putin's sight because they have decided to secede from the former Soviet Union.

"Finland will also bring with it considerable intelligence capabilities, which would increase NATO's situational awareness and ability to collect and analyze intelligence on Russia's operations," JustSecurity writes.
The word glow (goggletranslate) is from "hehkuttaa" which means to praise.
https://www.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/a/...e-d605b9750523
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Old 14th May 2022, 05:35 AM   #335
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Quote:
Niinistö talked to Putin Saturday. No quotes from Putin in the article.

Niinistö said that he had already told Putin at their first meeting in 2012 that each independent nation would maximize its own security - and that is the case today.

- The discussion was direct and clear and took place without exaggeration. Avoiding tensions was considered important, President Niinistö says in a press release.

Niinistö emphasized to Putin that by joining NATO, Finland will strengthen its own security and assume its responsibilities without losing anyone. In addition, according to him, Finland wants to continue to handle the practical issues generated by the border neighborhood in a matter-of-fact and professional manner.

During the call, Niinistö also emphasized the need for peace and expressed deep concern about the human suffering caused by Russia's war in Ukraine.

The inter-presidential call was initiated by Finland. On Thursday, the Finnish state leadership announced its support for Finland's NATO membership.
https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...d-0cb11fd06091
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Old 14th May 2022, 11:04 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Pretty sure the Finnish Government expected this and alternative arrangements have been made.
It's Sunday morning here, and the lights are still on.
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Old 15th May 2022, 05:01 AM   #337
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Finland's president has confirmed his country will formally apply for Nato membership

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share
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Old 15th May 2022, 07:55 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
It's Sunday morning here, and the lights are still on.
I'm sure that's all just residual electricity leftover in the wires, once that all runs out and you'll be in the dark in no time.
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Old 15th May 2022, 08:06 AM   #339
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Meanwhile:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ssia-relations

Quote:
The Russian president has warned his Finnish counterpart that relations between the two neighbours could be “negatively affected” if Finland follows through with plans to apply for Nato membership.
Not the most convincing threat
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Old 15th May 2022, 09:30 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I'm sure that's all just residual electricity leftover in the wires, once that all runs out and you'll be in the dark in no time.
Russia use to supply 14% of Finland's power.
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Old 15th May 2022, 09:46 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I hope your government will have read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_b...a_headquarters before making its final decision.

Especially this bit:
Quote:
On 23 May 2011, Radio Television of Serbia (RTS) issued an official apology for the way their programming was misused for spreading propaganda and discrediting political opponents in the 1990s, and for the fact that their broadcasts had "hurt the feelings, moral integrity and dignity of the citizens of Serbia, humanist-oriented intellectuals, members of the political opposition, critically minded journalists, certain minorities in Serbia, minority religious groups in Serbia, as well as certain neighbouring peoples and states."
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Old 15th May 2022, 10:12 AM   #342
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And Sweden has now joined Finland in applying for NATO membership:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61456726
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Old 16th May 2022, 05:12 AM   #343
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Here it comes. Turkey demands:
Quote:
Turkey demands extradition of PKK members from Sweden, Finland for Nato bid
Ankara wants both to stop PKK activities in their countries and drop arms export ban against Turkey

Cavusoglu said Ankara was making progress with Finland on the issue but Sweden was continuing to be “provocative”, and that Turkey would only be happy after getting security assurances.

Turkey has also asked both countries to extradite suspected PKK members.

Cavusoglu said he shared pictures and documents with the Swedish authorities that show the PKK freely operating in Sweden.

“We told them that we cannot be satisfied with Sweden’s already existing declaration that the PKK is on their terror list,” Cavusoglu said after meeting Swedish and Finnish foreign ministers in Berlin on Sunday. “They told us that they will come up with a new plan.”

Turkish officials believe Finland is closer to striking a deal with Turkey over the PKK than Sweden. "They are being more responsive and constructive," Cavusoglu said. [Fewer kurds. There are some middle east refugees but Somalis are the longest staying group]

Turkey also wants all Finnish and Swedish arms export bans again Ankara to be lifted before they join Nato. Both countries imposed embargoes on Turkey following the latter’s 2019 incursion in northern Syria against the PKK’s Syrian arm, the YPG.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/s...on-pkk-members
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Old 16th May 2022, 10:39 AM   #344
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STOCKHOLM (Reuters) – The foreign ministers of Sweden and Finland plan to travel “soon” to Turkey for talks to address Ankara’s objections to NATO membership for the two Nordic countries, news agency TT reported, citing the Swedish foreign office.

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde and Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto would meet their Turkish counterpart, Mevlut Cavusoglu, in the capital, TT reported.
https://whbl.com/2022/05/16/swedish-...t-news-agency/
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Old 16th May 2022, 11:55 AM   #345
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So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0
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Old 16th May 2022, 12:00 PM   #346
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I want Russia to invade Sweden, so we can see images of old Volvo estates towing Russian tanks.
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Old 16th May 2022, 12:05 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland View Post
So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0

Putin is doing a lot of bluster recently.

Talk loudly and carry a paper stick.
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Old 16th May 2022, 12:37 PM   #348
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He wants an excuse for his failure to impose "consequences" for their joining NATO.
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Old 16th May 2022, 01:45 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland View Post
So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0
Well, militarily we simply are not worried - at the moment Russia would so totally get their asses kicked by Finland should they try to invade with their non-existing troops and weapons.
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Old 16th May 2022, 02:32 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And Sweden has now joined Finland in applying for NATO membership:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61456726
And there was much rejoicing in Minnesota....
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Old 17th May 2022, 04:30 AM   #351
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The last tally was 170 for and 10 no, rest undecided. Vote is Tue.
Quote:
The Finnish parliament is expected to hold a vote on Tuesday on a proposal to apply for Nato membership, as Sweden inches closer to making its bid to join the alliance.

MPs in Helsinki are widely tipped to back Prime Minister Sanna Marin and President Sauli Niinisto’s view that joining Nato would the best move for Finland’s security, in light of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The leadership decided officially on Sunday to apply to join the military alliance but the decision is pending parliament’s approval.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/worl...s-application/
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Old 17th May 2022, 05:32 AM   #352
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Russia threatens….

Well, that was overwhelming from the Finnish parliament: 188 for Nato, 8 against - out of 200. We really do want to join
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Old 17th May 2022, 05:48 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Well, that was overwhelming from the Finnish parliament: 188 for Nato, 8 against - out of 200. We really do want to join
Let's hope Turkey doesn't **** it up now.
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Old 17th May 2022, 05:55 AM   #354
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Turkey and Hungary will both be brought along with a combination of bribes and threats.
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Old 17th May 2022, 06:35 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I want Russia to invade Sweden, so we can see images of old Volvo estates towing Russian tanks.
I'm not sure that Russia has got any tanks.
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Old 17th May 2022, 07:19 AM   #356
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Vote went 188 for and 8 against. A few were absent.
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Old 17th May 2022, 07:39 AM   #357
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Three absent (which I don't get - it's only one of the most important votes in the history of Finland). The speaker customarily did not vote.
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Old 17th May 2022, 07:41 AM   #358
crescent
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Here's kind of a long thread about Swedish military tech in relation to current events.

I posed it mostly because the Twitterererere person stereotypes all of the Swedish military engineers to be like the Muppet's Swedish Chef.

Tomi T Ahonen Stands With Ukraine on Twitter
Quote:
Sweden NATO Thread 1/

I discussed the addition of Finland to NATO, how that complicates Russian military/strategy because of the proximity of Finland to Russia. How does Sweden impact Russia, because Sweden does not share a land border? Let's do Thread about Sweden now.
In discussion of differences between common Swedish tech compared to common tech in western European militaries, such as the pusher engine on the Saab 21 fighter:
Quote:
Sweden NATO Thread 7/

When Swedish Air Force pilots expressed 'slight' worries about being sliced up by propeller in tail,

..along came a Swedish airplane engineer who said "hörfde, härfde, hårfde - raket stul - höö"

("Letse putte rakette under the stool of de pilotte")


Now I have visions of all of the USSR's military technology strategies being foiled by a bunch of Swedish chef's running around and designing equipment to get around Soviet tactics.
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Old 17th May 2022, 10:16 AM   #359
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Turkey and Hungary will both be brought along with a combination of bribes and threats.

Turkey and Hungary have already stated that they would veto this nonsense. So has Croatia. So no need to worry, just some more noise.
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Old 17th May 2022, 10:24 AM   #360
llwyd
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
just some more noise.
You would know being a leading expert...
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