[Merged] Russia threatens Finland & Sweden/ they may join within months - Page 9

The Great Zaganza · 13th May 2022, 05:20 AM

Turkey loves the NATO border it has with Russia and the attention that brings.
Finnland joining would diminish that.

Ryokan · 13th May 2022, 05:36 AM

Turkey doesn't have a border with Russia.

The Great Zaganza · 13th May 2022, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ryokan

Turkey doesn't have a border with Russia.

Black Sea, Bosporus.

Ryokan · 13th May 2022, 05:39 AM

Erdogan also says it was a mistake to admit Greece to NATO.

That's a long time to hold a grudge.

Captain_Swoop · 13th May 2022, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Black Sea, Bosporus.

That's not a border.
We had this discussion already

dudalb · 13th May 2022, 10:01 AM

FOr the record, the experts I have heard don't see Hungary or Turkey as being a major peoblem. They might make some noises, but in the end they will go along with Finland joining Nato.

llwyd · 13th May 2022, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

FOr the record, the experts I have heard don't see Hungary or Turkey as being a major peoblem. They might make some noises, but in the end they will go along with Finland joining Nato.

Yep, they are milking for concessions. They won't actually sabotage Nato.

Captain_Swoop · 13th May 2022, 03:16 PM

Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday

dudalb · 13th May 2022, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday

Pretty sure the Finnish Government expected this and alternative arrangements have been made.

Tero · 13th May 2022, 06:21 PM

Finnish analyst says he wants something:

Quote:

However, senior researcher at the Foreign Policy Institute, Toni Alaranta , considers Erdoğan's comments welcome, as Turkey sees an opportunity to negotiate with other NATO countries on issues that are important to him and concessions.

- The Turkish press has mentioned, among other things, the recognition of Northern Cyprus, the eradication of the activities of the PKK, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, from European countries, the eradication of the Gülen movement and the lifting of various arms embargoes, Alaranta lists.

- I assume that Turkey wants to negotiate all of these.

For example, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has reiterated in public how quickly Finland and Sweden's potential membership applications could be processed.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12445335

Craig4 · 13th May 2022, 09:08 PM

Yeah, the price of admission for Finland and Sweden is going to be selling Turkey the F-35. We've got enough lickey chewies to throw Hungary's way that they'll shut up and color.

Captain_Swoop · 14th May 2022, 02:50 AM

Turkey won't get the F-35, or recognition of Northern Cyprus, or any action against PKK or KWP or any of the others.
They are not in the power of NATO to give.

sarge · 14th May 2022, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Turkey won't get the F-35, or recognition of Northern Cyprus, or any action against PKK or KWP or any of the others.
They are not in the power of NATO to give.

The recognition of TRNC is in the power of individual member states to give. The big prize here is official recognition by the US and UK. It won’t happen, nor will the UN withdraw its forces.

Tero · 14th May 2022, 03:57 AM

Quote:

With NATO news coverage, the Finnish Defense Forces have also received a global glow.

U.S. security policy-focused online media, JustSecurity , has published news describing our armed forces as “very strong”.

- Finland has very strong armed forces, which, as a result of years of partnership, are interoperable with NATO and would significantly increase NATO's combat power. For years, Finland has been a significant player in NATO-led operations in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq, the news reports.

According to US media, Finland's ability to use artillery fire power exceeds all other European countries.

- The country has strong air, artillery and missile fire power, naval and cyber capabilities, and the ability to rapidly mobilize 280,000 troops. It owns more tanks than Germany, the news lists.

France24 agrees with the same in its news release . The French media praises the number of Finnish soldiers and glows at the strong artillery of our armed forces.

- Finland's military power is impressive for a country of only 5.5 million people.

- Thanks to its well-funded, trained and ready-made army, it would increase NATO's ability to defend the Baltic states, which have long been in Putin's sight because they have decided to secede from the former Soviet Union.

"Finland will also bring with it considerable intelligence capabilities, which would increase NATO's situational awareness and ability to collect and analyze intelligence on Russia's operations," JustSecurity writes.

The word glow (goggletranslate) is from "hehkuttaa" which means to praise.
https://www.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/a/...e-d605b9750523

Tero · 14th May 2022, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Niinistö talked to Putin Saturday. No quotes from Putin in the article.

Niinistö said that he had already told Putin at their first meeting in 2012 that each independent nation would maximize its own security - and that is the case today.

- The discussion was direct and clear and took place without exaggeration. Avoiding tensions was considered important, President Niinistö says in a press release.

Niinistö emphasized to Putin that by joining NATO, Finland will strengthen its own security and assume its responsibilities without losing anyone. In addition, according to him, Finland wants to continue to handle the practical issues generated by the border neighborhood in a matter-of-fact and professional manner.

During the call, Niinistö also emphasized the need for peace and expressed deep concern about the human suffering caused by Russia's war in Ukraine.

The inter-presidential call was initiated by Finland. On Thursday, the Finnish state leadership announced its support for Finland's NATO membership.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...d-0cb11fd06091

timhau · 14th May 2022, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday

Originally Posted by dudalb

Pretty sure the Finnish Government expected this and alternative arrangements have been made.

It's Sunday morning here, and the lights are still on.

Captain_Swoop · 15th May 2022, 05:01 AM

Finland's president has confirmed his country will formally apply for Nato membership

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Mike! · 15th May 2022, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

It's Sunday morning here, and the lights are still on.

I'm sure that's all just residual electricity leftover in the wires, once that all runs out and you'll be in the dark in no time.

jimbob · 15th May 2022, 08:06 AM

Meanwhile:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ssia-relations

Quote:

The Russian president has warned his Finnish counterpart that relations between the two neighbours could be “negatively affected” if Finland follows through with plans to apply for Nato membership.

Not the most convincing threat

Hans · 15th May 2022, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

I'm sure that's all just residual electricity leftover in the wires, once that all runs out and you'll be in the dark in no time.

Russia use to supply 14% of Finland's power.

catsmate · 15th May 2022, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Michel H

I hope your government will have read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_b...a_headquarters before making its final decision.

Especially this bit:

Quote:

On 23 May 2011, Radio Television of Serbia (RTS) issued an official apology for the way their programming was misused for spreading propaganda and discrediting political opponents in the 1990s, and for the fact that their broadcasts had "hurt the feelings, moral integrity and dignity of the citizens of Serbia, humanist-oriented intellectuals, members of the political opposition, critically minded journalists, certain minorities in Serbia, minority religious groups in Serbia, as well as certain neighbouring peoples and states."

Garrison · 15th May 2022, 10:12 AM

And Sweden has now joined Finland in applying for NATO membership:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61456726

Tero · 16th May 2022, 05:12 AM

Here it comes. Turkey demands:

Quote:

Turkey demands extradition of PKK members from Sweden, Finland for Nato bid
Ankara wants both to stop PKK activities in their countries and drop arms export ban against Turkey

Cavusoglu said Ankara was making progress with Finland on the issue but Sweden was continuing to be “provocative”, and that Turkey would only be happy after getting security assurances.

Turkey has also asked both countries to extradite suspected PKK members.

Cavusoglu said he shared pictures and documents with the Swedish authorities that show the PKK freely operating in Sweden.

“We told them that we cannot be satisfied with Sweden’s already existing declaration that the PKK is on their terror list,” Cavusoglu said after meeting Swedish and Finnish foreign ministers in Berlin on Sunday. “They told us that they will come up with a new plan.”

Turkish officials believe Finland is closer to striking a deal with Turkey over the PKK than Sweden. "They are being more responsive and constructive," Cavusoglu said. [Fewer kurds. There are some middle east refugees but Somalis are the longest staying group]

Turkey also wants all Finnish and Swedish arms export bans again Ankara to be lifted before they join Nato. Both countries imposed embargoes on Turkey following the latter’s 2019 incursion in northern Syria against the PKK’s Syrian arm, the YPG.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/s...on-pkk-members

Tero · 16th May 2022, 10:39 AM

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) – The foreign ministers of Sweden and Finland plan to travel “soon” to Turkey for talks to address Ankara’s objections to NATO membership for the two Nordic countries, news agency TT reported, citing the Swedish foreign office.

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde and Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto would meet their Turkish counterpart, Mevlut Cavusoglu, in the capital, TT reported.
https://whbl.com/2022/05/16/swedish-...t-news-agency/

Lennart Hyland · 16th May 2022, 11:55 AM

So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0

Nessie · 16th May 2022, 12:00 PM

I want Russia to invade Sweden, so we can see images of old Volvo estates towing Russian tanks.

jimbob · 16th May 2022, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland

So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0

Putin is doing a lot of bluster recently.

Talk loudly and carry a paper stick.

SpitfireIX · 16th May 2022, 12:37 PM

He wants an excuse for his failure to impose "consequences" for their joining NATO.

llwyd · 16th May 2022, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland

So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0

Well, militarily we simply are not worried - at the moment Russia would so totally get their asses kicked by Finland should they try to invade with their non-existing troops and weapons.

dudalb · 16th May 2022, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Garrison

And Sweden has now joined Finland in applying for NATO membership:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61456726

And there was much rejoicing in Minnesota....

Tero · 17th May 2022, 04:30 AM

The last tally was 170 for and 10 no, rest undecided. Vote is Tue.

Quote:

The Finnish parliament is expected to hold a vote on Tuesday on a proposal to apply for Nato membership, as Sweden inches closer to making its bid to join the alliance.

MPs in Helsinki are widely tipped to back Prime Minister Sanna Marin and President Sauli Niinisto’s view that joining Nato would the best move for Finland’s security, in light of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The leadership decided officially on Sunday to apply to join the military alliance but the decision is pending parliament’s approval.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/worl...s-application/

llwyd · 17th May 2022, 05:32 AM

Well, that was overwhelming from the Finnish parliament: 188 for Nato, 8 against - out of 200. We really do want to join

Ziggurat · 17th May 2022, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by llwyd

Well, that was overwhelming from the Finnish parliament: 188 for Nato, 8 against - out of 200. We really do want to join

Let's hope Turkey doesn't **** it up now.

SpitfireIX · 17th May 2022, 05:55 AM

Turkey and Hungary will both be brought along with a combination of bribes and threats.

jeremyp · 17th May 2022, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

I want Russia to invade Sweden, so we can see images of old Volvo estates towing Russian tanks.

I'm not sure that Russia has got any tanks.

Tero · 17th May 2022, 07:19 AM

Vote went 188 for and 8 against. A few were absent.

timhau · 17th May 2022, 07:39 AM

Three absent (which I don't get - it's only one of the most important votes in the history of Finland). The speaker customarily did not vote.

crescent · 17th May 2022, 07:41 AM

Here's kind of a long thread about Swedish military tech in relation to current events.

I posed it mostly because the Twitterererere person stereotypes all of the Swedish military engineers to be like the Muppet's Swedish Chef.

Tomi T Ahonen Stands With Ukraine on Twitter

Quote:

Sweden NATO Thread 1/

I discussed the addition of Finland to NATO, how that complicates Russian military/strategy because of the proximity of Finland to Russia. How does Sweden impact Russia, because Sweden does not share a land border? Let's do Thread about Sweden now.

In discussion of differences between common Swedish tech compared to common tech in western European militaries, such as the pusher engine on the Saab 21 fighter:

Quote:

Sweden NATO Thread 7/

When Swedish Air Force pilots expressed 'slight' worries about being sliced up by propeller in tail,

..along came a Swedish airplane engineer who said "hörfde, härfde, hårfde - raket stul - höö"

("Letse putte rakette under the stool of de pilotte")

Now I have visions of all of the USSR's military technology strategies being foiled by a bunch of Swedish chef's running around and designing equipment to get around Soviet tactics.

Childlike Empress · 17th May 2022, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

Turkey and Hungary will both be brought along with a combination of bribes and threats.

Turkey and Hungary have already stated that they would veto this nonsense. So has Croatia. So no need to worry, just some more noise.

llwyd · 17th May 2022, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

just some more noise.

You would know being a leading expert...

13th May 2022, 05:20 AM	#321
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,306	Turkey loves the NATO border it has with Russia and the attention that brings. Finnland joining would diminish that.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips

13th May 2022, 05:38 AM	#323
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,306	Originally Posted by Ryokan Turkey doesn't have a border with Russia. Black Sea, Bosporus.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips

13th May 2022, 10:01 AM	#326
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,922	FOr the record, the experts I have heard don't see Hungary or Turkey as being a major peoblem. They might make some noises, but in the end they will go along with Finland joining Nato.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

13th May 2022, 03:43 PM	#329
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,922	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday Pretty sure the Finnish Government expected this and alternative arrangements have been made.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

13th May 2022, 06:21 PM	#330
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,686	Finnish analyst says he wants something: Quote: However, senior researcher at the Foreign Policy Institute, Toni Alaranta , considers Erdoğan's comments welcome, as Turkey sees an opportunity to negotiate with other NATO countries on issues that are important to him and concessions. - The Turkish press has mentioned, among other things, the recognition of Northern Cyprus, the eradication of the activities of the PKK, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, from European countries, the eradication of the Gülen movement and the lifting of various arms embargoes, Alaranta lists. - I assume that Turkey wants to negotiate all of these. For example, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has reiterated in public how quickly Finland and Sweden's potential membership applications could be processed. https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12445335
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13th May 2022, 05:36 AM	#322
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 10,680	Turkey doesn't have a border with Russia.

13th May 2022, 05:39 AM	#324
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 10,680	Erdogan also says it was a mistake to admit Greece to NATO. That's a long time to hold a grudge.

13th May 2022, 07:14 AM	#325
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza Black Sea, Bosporus. That's not a border. We had this discussion already

13th May 2022, 03:05 PM	#327
llwyd Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Helsinki Posts: 1,133	Originally Posted by dudalb FOr the record, the experts I have heard don't see Hungary or Turkey as being a major peoblem. They might make some noises, but in the end they will go along with Finland joining Nato. Yep, they are milking for concessions. They won't actually sabotage Nato.

13th May 2022, 03:16 PM	#328
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday

13th May 2022, 09:08 PM	#331
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 25,626	Yeah, the price of admission for Finland and Sweden is going to be selling Turkey the F-35. We've got enough lickey chewies to throw Hungary's way that they'll shut up and color.
	__________________ Fight like a Ukrainian.

14th May 2022, 02:50 AM	#332
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Turkey won't get the F-35, or recognition of Northern Cyprus, or any action against PKK or KWP or any of the others. They are not in the power of NATO to give.

14th May 2022, 03:38 AM	#333
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,857	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Turkey won't get the F-35, or recognition of Northern Cyprus, or any action against PKK or KWP or any of the others. They are not in the power of NATO to give. The recognition of TRNC is in the power of individual member states to give. The big prize here is official recognition by the US and UK. It won’t happen, nor will the UN withdraw its forces.
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!

14th May 2022, 03:57 AM	#334
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,686	Quote: With NATO news coverage, the Finnish Defense Forces have also received a global glow. U.S. security policy-focused online media, JustSecurity , has published news describing our armed forces as “very strong”. - Finland has very strong armed forces, which, as a result of years of partnership, are interoperable with NATO and would significantly increase NATO's combat power. For years, Finland has been a significant player in NATO-led operations in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq, the news reports. According to US media, Finland's ability to use artillery fire power exceeds all other European countries. - The country has strong air, artillery and missile fire power, naval and cyber capabilities, and the ability to rapidly mobilize 280,000 troops. It owns more tanks than Germany, the news lists. France24 agrees with the same in its news release . The French media praises the number of Finnish soldiers and glows at the strong artillery of our armed forces. - Finland's military power is impressive for a country of only 5.5 million people. - Thanks to its well-funded, trained and ready-made army, it would increase NATO's ability to defend the Baltic states, which have long been in Putin's sight because they have decided to secede from the former Soviet Union. "Finland will also bring with it considerable intelligence capabilities, which would increase NATO's situational awareness and ability to collect and analyze intelligence on Russia's operations," JustSecurity writes. The word glow (goggletranslate) is from "hehkuttaa" which means to praise. https://www.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/a/...e-d605b9750523
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14th May 2022, 05:35 AM	#335
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,686	Quote: Niinistö talked to Putin Saturday. No quotes from Putin in the article. Niinistö said that he had already told Putin at their first meeting in 2012 that each independent nation would maximize its own security - and that is the case today. - The discussion was direct and clear and took place without exaggeration. Avoiding tensions was considered important, President Niinistö says in a press release. Niinistö emphasized to Putin that by joining NATO, Finland will strengthen its own security and assume its responsibilities without losing anyone. In addition, according to him, Finland wants to continue to handle the practical issues generated by the border neighborhood in a matter-of-fact and professional manner. During the call, Niinistö also emphasized the need for peace and expressed deep concern about the human suffering caused by Russia's war in Ukraine. The inter-presidential call was initiated by Finland. On Thursday, the Finnish state leadership announced its support for Finland's NATO membership. https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...d-0cb11fd06091
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14th May 2022, 11:04 PM	#336
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,967	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Electricity exports from Russia to Finland are being suspended from Saturday Originally Posted by dudalb Pretty sure the Finnish Government expected this and alternative arrangements have been made. It's Sunday morning here, and the lights are still on.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

15th May 2022, 05:01 AM	#337
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 43,373	Finland's president has confirmed his country will formally apply for Nato membership https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

15th May 2022, 07:55 AM	#338
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 46,496	Originally Posted by timhau It's Sunday morning here, and the lights are still on. I'm sure that's all just residual electricity leftover in the wires, once that all runs out and you'll be in the dark in no time.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

15th May 2022, 08:06 AM	#339
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,686	Meanwhile: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ssia-relations Quote: The Russian president has warned his Finnish counterpart that relations between the two neighbours could be “negatively affected” if Finland follows through with plans to apply for Nato membership. Not the most convincing threat
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15th May 2022, 09:30 AM	#340
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,929	Originally Posted by Mike! I'm sure that's all just residual electricity leftover in the wires, once that all runs out and you'll be in the dark in no time. Russia use to supply 14% of Finland's power.
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,929

15th May 2022, 09:46 AM	#341
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,191	Originally Posted by Michel H I hope your government will have read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_b...a_headquarters before making its final decision. Especially this bit: Quote: On 23 May 2011, Radio Television of Serbia (RTS) issued an official apology for the way their programming was misused for spreading propaganda and discrediting political opponents in the 1990s, and for the fact that their broadcasts had "hurt the feelings, moral integrity and dignity of the citizens of Serbia, humanist-oriented intellectuals, members of the political opposition, critically minded journalists, certain minorities in Serbia, minority religious groups in Serbia, as well as certain neighbouring peoples and states."
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. Last edited by catsmate; 15th May 2022 at 09:51 AM.

15th May 2022, 10:12 AM	#342
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,833	And Sweden has now joined Finland in applying for NATO membership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61456726
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16th May 2022, 05:12 AM	#343
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,686	Here it comes. Turkey demands: Quote: Turkey demands extradition of PKK members from Sweden, Finland for Nato bid Ankara wants both to stop PKK activities in their countries and drop arms export ban against Turkey Cavusoglu said Ankara was making progress with Finland on the issue but Sweden was continuing to be “provocative”, and that Turkey would only be happy after getting security assurances. Turkey has also asked both countries to extradite suspected PKK members. Cavusoglu said he shared pictures and documents with the Swedish authorities that show the PKK freely operating in Sweden. “We told them that we cannot be satisfied with Sweden’s already existing declaration that the PKK is on their terror list,” Cavusoglu said after meeting Swedish and Finnish foreign ministers in Berlin on Sunday. “They told us that they will come up with a new plan.” Turkish officials believe Finland is closer to striking a deal with Turkey over the PKK than Sweden. "They are being more responsive and constructive," Cavusoglu said. [Fewer kurds. There are some middle east refugees but Somalis are the longest staying group] Turkey also wants all Finnish and Swedish arms export bans again Ankara to be lifted before they join Nato. Both countries imposed embargoes on Turkey following the latter’s 2019 incursion in northern Syria against the PKK’s Syrian arm, the YPG. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/s...on-pkk-members
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16th May 2022, 10:39 AM	#344
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,686	STOCKHOLM (Reuters) – The foreign ministers of Sweden and Finland plan to travel “soon” to Turkey for talks to address Ankara’s objections to NATO membership for the two Nordic countries, news agency TT reported, citing the Swedish foreign office. Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde and Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto would meet their Turkish counterpart, Mevlut Cavusoglu, in the capital, TT reported. https://whbl.com/2022/05/16/swedish-...t-news-agency/
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16th May 2022, 11:55 AM	#345
Lennart Hyland Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 686	So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0
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16th May 2022, 12:00 PM	#346
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,655	I want Russia to invade Sweden, so we can see images of old Volvo estates towing Russian tanks.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

16th May 2022, 12:05 PM	#347
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,686	Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0 Putin is doing a lot of bluster recently. Talk loudly and carry a paper stick.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

16th May 2022, 12:37 PM	#348
SpitfireIX Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Location: Niceville, Florida, USA Posts: 5,405	He wants an excuse for his failure to impose "consequences" for their joining NATO.
	__________________ "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz

16th May 2022, 01:45 PM	#349
llwyd Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Helsinki Posts: 1,133	Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland So now Putin is OK with Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Only an expansion of military infrastructure in these countries would pose as a threat to Russia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65YTLuZEr0 Well, militarily we simply are not worried - at the moment Russia would so totally get their asses kicked by Finland should they try to invade with their non-existing troops and weapons.

16th May 2022, 02:32 PM	#350
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,922	Originally Posted by Garrison And Sweden has now joined Finland in applying for NATO membership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61456726 And there was much rejoicing in Minnesota....
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

17th May 2022, 04:30 AM	#351
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,686	The last tally was 170 for and 10 no, rest undecided. Vote is Tue. Quote: The Finnish parliament is expected to hold a vote on Tuesday on a proposal to apply for Nato membership, as Sweden inches closer to making its bid to join the alliance. MPs in Helsinki are widely tipped to back Prime Minister Sanna Marin and President Sauli Niinisto’s view that joining Nato would the best move for Finland’s security, in light of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The leadership decided officially on Sunday to apply to join the military alliance but the decision is pending parliament’s approval. https://www.thenationalnews.com/worl...s-application/
	__________________ Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/

17th May 2022, 05:32 AM	#352
llwyd Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Helsinki Posts: 1,133	Russia threatens…. Well, that was overwhelming from the Finnish parliament: 188 for Nato, 8 against - out of 200. We really do want to join

17th May 2022, 05:48 AM	#353
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,938	Originally Posted by llwyd Well, that was overwhelming from the Finnish parliament: 188 for Nato, 8 against - out of 200. We really do want to join Let's hope Turkey doesn't **** it up now.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

17th May 2022, 05:55 AM	#354
SpitfireIX Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Location: Niceville, Florida, USA Posts: 5,405	Turkey and Hungary will both be brought along with a combination of bribes and threats.
	__________________ "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz

17th May 2022, 06:35 AM	#355
jeremyp Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,697	Originally Posted by Nessie I want Russia to invade Sweden, so we can see images of old Volvo estates towing Russian tanks. I'm not sure that Russia has got any tanks.