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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:29 PM   #281
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Completely unscientific anecdote: My wife and I always vote early in our ward in St. Louis, maybe in the first hour the polls are open. When you put your ballot in the ballot box, there is a display of how many ballots are in the box. I'm usually there in the first 10. For this midterm, about a half hour after the polls opened, I was somewhere in the 20's.

Maybe it's a fluke, but I hope it means voter participation is up.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:35 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
How unpopular is Joe Biden?
Roughly as unpopular as Trump was at this point in his presidency, which was pretty damn unpopular. Although, it took Biden a year or so to drop down to Trump levels of unpopularity.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:41 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Roughly as unpopular as Trump was at this point in his presidency, which was pretty damn unpopular. Although, it took Biden a year or so to drop down to Trump levels of unpopularity.
Mostly due to things Biden isn't responsible for and has a very limited ability to ameliorate but blamed for anyway.
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Old 2nd August 2022, 01:56 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Mostly due to things Biden isn't responsible for and has a very limited ability to ameliorate but blamed for anyway.
I think it's the media and republicans blaming Biden, that's the main reason. It's sad that the media is, quite too often, on board with the Republicans in making Democrats look bad. The media is too scared to cross the Republicans when reporting the news because they don't want to be called "liberal media".
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Old 2nd August 2022, 08:39 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Mostly due to things Biden isn't responsible for and has a very limited ability to ameliorate but blamed for anyway.
Ttue, but that happens to every President who is elected when things go bad in the economy. Both parties have suffered because of it.
Twas ever thus.
Presidents get the credit for a lot of things they had little to do with, so it's only fair they take blame they don't deserve.
Don't see this changing much.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 05:08 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I think it's the media and republicans blaming Biden, that's the main reason. It's sad that the media is, quite too often, on board with the Republicans in making Democrats look bad. The media is too scared to cross the Republicans when reporting the news because they don't want to be called "liberal media".
Also, they need to treat every issue like it is a sporting event with 2 equal sides and a whole lot of drama.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 07:11 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Maybe it's a fluke, but I hope it means voter participation is up.
It was a fluke.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 07:34 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
In Kansas, because of the abortion amendment, voting was up. The Republican legislature had scheduled the vote for the primary because more republicans usually turn out than democrats. Turns out the abortion amendment boosted the turnout.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 08:51 AM   #289
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Looks like I'm voting Democrat for Governor and Secretary of State.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 09:14 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Looks like I'm voting Democrat for Governor and Secretary of State.
You and me both. How about Senate and AG?
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Old 3rd August 2022, 12:19 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Looks like I'm voting Democrat for Governor and Secretary of State.
Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
You and me both. How about Senate and AG?

Thanks for not putting party over country. I mean that sincerely.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 02:13 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Thanks for not putting party over country. I mean that sincerely.
Brainster (I think) may be republican, but I am independent. I do lean dem, but have voted for republicans in the past when the dems nominated looney tunes characters.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 02:17 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Brainster (I think) may be republican, but I am independent. I do lean dem, but have voted for republicans in the past when the dems nominated looney tunes characters.
I have no problem with voting for sane Republicans. Trouble is, there are so damned few of them anymore.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 02:29 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I have no problem with voting for sane Republicans. Trouble is, there are so damned few of them anymore.
Exactly. And they only seem to be at a very local level.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 02:55 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Exactly. And they only seem to be at a very local level.
Exactly. I lean mostly left but there's often at least one Republican I vote each cycle that seems a little more sane than their Democratic opponent's proposed policies.

The whole F the other side at all costs feels really unhealthy societally/politically, but I guess that's where we're at considering Trump isn't doing too bad with his bumps.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 03:17 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
You and me both. How about Senate and AG?
100% not voting for Kelly. I voted for Lamon in the primary although I had signed Brnovich's petition. It would take a lot for me not to vote for Masters.

Haven't looked hard at the AG's race, but I will probably go Dem there as well. I want the 2021 law against abortion after 15 weeks enforced, not the 1901 Territorial law.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 03:22 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
100% not voting for Kelly. I voted for Lamon in the primary although I had signed Brnovich's petition. It would take a lot for me not to vote for Masters.

Haven't looked hard at the AG's race, but I will probably go Dem there as well. I want the 2021 law against abortion after 15 weeks enforced, not the 1901 Territorial law.
Thanks for that. Not sure I understand 100% not Kelly, but civil discussions are missing. I can't take the folks that say the other party is evil.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 03:51 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
100% not voting for Kelly. I voted for Lamon in the primary although I had signed Brnovich's petition. It would take a lot for me not to vote for Masters.

Haven't looked hard at the AG's race, but I will probably go Dem there as well. I want the 2021 law against abortion after 15 weeks enforced, not the 1901 Territorial law.
So you support building Trump's border wall, impeaching Biden for stopping it and not voting for any Biden nominee unless he finishes the border wall, "grateful for what (Trump) did for the country", and that Trump really won the 2020 election? Because Blake Masters does.

https://www.12news.com/article/news/...a-3b216084c8fa
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Old 3rd August 2022, 04:22 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Brainster (I think) may be republican, but I am independent. I do lean dem, but have voted for republicans in the past when the dems nominated looney tunes characters.
I generally vote Republican but I have certainly crossed over or abstained when I felt it necessary. I did not vote for Trump either time even though I generally agreed with what he did as President except for his response to Covid and the 2020 election trutherism. Why did I not support him? Because he's a braying jackass, that simple.

I hated Obama's presidency, but at least he was a good person. Less of a fan of Bush, Jr.'s presidency than I was at the time, but again--a mensch as my Jewish friends would put it. Clinton, eh, kind of the same problem with Trump, not a class individual who at least knew how to pretend to be one.

But I am 100% aligned against any candidate who crosses the line into 2020 Trutherism. I supported Robson specifically because while (given the realities of the GOP electorate) she had to talk a bit about the loose controls, at the same time she did not endorse the notion that Trump won.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 04:30 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I generally vote Republican but I have certainly crossed over or abstained when I felt it necessary. I did not vote for Trump either time even though I generally agreed with what he did as President except for his response to Covid and the 2020 election trutherism. Why did I not support him? Because he's a braying jackass, that simple.

I hated Obama's presidency, but at least he was a good person. Less of a fan of Bush, Jr.'s presidency than I was at the time, but again--a mensch as my Jewish friends would put it. Clinton, eh, kind of the same problem with Trump, not a class individual who at least knew how to pretend to be one.

But I am 100% aligned against any candidate who crosses the line into 2020 Trutherism. I supported Robson specifically because while (given the realities of the GOP electorate) she had to talk a bit about the loose controls, at the same time she did not endorse the notion that Trump won.
But Blake Masters believes Trump won the election.

Quote:
Blake Masters
@bgmasters
America’s most powerful institutions conspired to manipulate the 2020 election. Donald Trump should be president today.
https://twitter.com/bgmasters/status...952200?lang=en
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Old 3rd August 2022, 04:37 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Thanks for that. Not sure I understand 100% not Kelly, but civil discussions are missing. I can't take the folks that say the other party is evil.
Because the GOP needs that seat and Kelly's very liberal for Arizona. I know this does her little favor around here but I think Kyrsten Sinema is a dream Democrat (and I assumed she would be a loon given her background in the Green Party). Yes, I know that she stands little chance in a primary in 2024, but a more perfect example of a moderate Democrat bucking her party being villainized in the media versus a moderate Republican bucking her party being lauded (e.g. Liz Cheney) is hard to imagine.

ETA to clarify: 100% behind the plaudits for Cheney, wish we heard more for Sinema.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 04:42 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But Blake Masters believes Trump won the election.


https://twitter.com/bgmasters/status...952200?lang=en
Definitely stepping right up to the line. Did he cross it? Manipulate? Should be? That's actually in the acceptable range, given that it is death for any Republican who wants to get elected to admit that Trump lost.

ETA: Did not realize there was a campaign ad behind the twitter. I don't disagree with anything that he says there. I wish everybody would move on from 2020, but that's a not-completely CT nutbar take unlike Lake and Finchem. It acknowledges some legitimate issues (e.g. in Pennsylvania) that get very technical to discuss and are basically ConLaw related and would not change the outcome anyway. A finesse.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 04:43 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Because the GOP needs that seat and Kelly's very liberal for Arizona.
Disagree. Sounds like party over country again.

Quote:
I know this does her little favor around here but I think Kyrsten Sinema is a dream Democrat (and I assumed she would be a loon given her background in the Green Party). Yes, I know that she stands little chance in a primary in 2024, but a more perfect example of a moderate Democrat bucking her party being villainized in the media versus a moderate Republican bucking her party being lauded (e.g. Liz Cheney) is hard to imagine.
Agree somewhat. I think she has a chance in a primary. I don't think Sinema is being villainized in the media as much as she is in the progressive democratic wing.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 05:16 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Definitely stepping right up to the line. Did he cross it? Manipulate? Should be? That's actually in the acceptable range, given that it is death for any Republican who wants to get elected to admit that Trump lost.
Mmmmm...sounds to me like you're trying very hard to rationalize voting for him after saying, "But I am 100% aligned against any candidate who crosses the line into 2020 Trutherism. I supported Robson specifically because while (given the realities of the GOP electorate) she had to talk a bit about the loose controls, at the same time she did not endorse the notion that Trump won."

Yet Masters said, "America’s most powerful institutions conspired to manipulate the 2020 election. Donald Trump should be president today," and "Trump won". How is that not "2020 trutherism"?


This is the man you support, whom you think we need in the US Senate over a man who is "too liberal for AZ". No, he's too liberal for AZ REPUBLICANS...the group that censors anyone, including Cindy McCain and Rusty Bowers, because they are not Trump kissarses.

Quote:
Masters, Thiel, and Yarvin, their scene’s house philosopher, are all former right-wing libertarians who have come to accept the naivete of electoral abstinence. They are now obsessed with wielding the power of the state against their perceived enemies. For Masters, that can mean going after the social media and search companies that he accuses of throwing the election for Joe Biden, China, and a progressive oligarchy that includes everyone from the members of the Squad to “woke” generals.

America, according to the Masters plan, will be saved by hierarchy, not leveling the playing field. The goal is to seize power by yoking a fundamentally elitist project to the grievances of everyday Republicans. Although often referred to as a “populist,” it’s not a label Masters uses himself. His broadsides against the TED-Talk-set can sound similar to the critiques of the professional managerial class made from the left in books like Christopher Lasch’s 1996 jeremiad, The Revolt of the Elites. What gets discarded is Lasch’s essential point that, “Social and civil equality presuppose at least a rough approximation of economic equality.”

Masters frames the current moment in apocalyptic terms. “If we don’t do something now, the rule of law will soon be gone forever,” he said last year in an interview with the hard-right site IM—1776. “Anyone who questions the left’s narrative is going to be hunted down. I truly believe that.” He often says that America could cease to exist if Republicans lose the 2022 and 2024 elections. In its place, he’s warned of a one-world-state in which the left freezes bank accounts to shut down dissent. He’s mused about how the globalist ideology threatening to usher in “Global Communism” is a “pretty good candidate” for the Antichrist.

These are the kinds of convictions that lead a former anarcho-capitalist to run for a Senate on a platform of using state power to go on “offense,” to claim Trump won the 2020 election, and advocate for Biden’s impeachment.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 05:18 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Definitely stepping right up to the line. Did he cross it? Manipulate? Should be? That's actually in the acceptable range, given that it is death for any Republican who wants to get elected to admit that Trump lost.

ETA: Did not realize there was a campaign ad behind the twitter. I don't disagree with anything that he says there. I wish everybody would move on from 2020, but that's a not-completely CT nutbar take unlike Lake and Finchem. It acknowledges some legitimate issues (e.g. in Pennsylvania) that get very technical to discuss and are basically ConLaw related and would not change the outcome anyway. A finesse.
The Arizona GOP went over to the Dark Side yesterday.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 05:18 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Disagree. Sounds like party over country again.
Yep. Put in the Senate another Trump bootlicking authoritarian. Just what the country needs.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 05:30 PM   #307
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Brainster,
Maybe you should reconsider who you want in the Senate. Unless, of course, you support this lunacy from Blake Masters:
Quote:
Masters considers himself "an America first conservative,"[18][33] and Politico described his campaign platform as "hard-line nationalist."[34] He opposes American aid to Ukraine.[35] Masters has suggested privatizing Social Security.[36][37]

He opposes abortion rights and criticized Griswold v. Connecticut, the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that recognized a constitutional right to obtain contraceptives, though he said he doesn't want to outlaw contraception.[35] Masters said that if elected to the Senate, he would vote to confirm federal judicial nominees only if they "understand that Roe and Griswold and Casey were wrongly decided."[38] On the issue of gay rights, Masters opposes Obergefell v. Hodges, the Supreme Court decision establishing a right to same-sex marriage, and takes the position that same-sex couples do not have a constitutional right to marry.
Quote:
He has embraced the racist Great Replacement conspiracy theory popular among white nationalists by asserting that Democrats want to deliberately engineer demographic replacement of American white people via immigration.[42] While campaigning on a talk show, Masters said the "gun violence problem" was an issue, saying, "It's gangs. It's people in Chicago, St. Louis shooting each other. Very often, you know, Black people, frankly. And the Democrats don't want to do anything about that."[43]
Quote:
Meeting with conservative Tea Party activists in March 2022, Masters said that the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was an FBI "false flag operation" and said that "one-third of the people outside of the Capitol complex on January 6 were actual FBI agents hanging out."[47]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_...and_statements

Yes, it's Wikipedia but every quote or claim is cited and linked. Masters is exactly the type of Republican this country does not need.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 10:54 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Disagree. Sounds like party over country again.



Agree somewhat. I think she has a chance in a primary. I don't think Sinema is being villainized in the media as much as she is in the progressive democratic wing.
The reason I'm voting against Lake and Finchem is because they would be in position to do dirty work in the 2024 election. Masters is not in that position.

As for Sinema, the Arizona Republic (which used to be a pretty conservative paper) blasted her for not going all with Biden's Build Inflation Better plan. The media amplify the talking points of the Left.
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Old 3rd August 2022, 11:39 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The reason I'm voting against Lake and Finchem is because they would be in position to do dirty work in the 2024 election. Masters is not in that position.
A Big Lie, Trump supporting, nationalist, Jan 6 denier elected to the Senate would not be in a position to do dirty work in the 2024 election? Really?
Quote:
As for Sinema, the Arizona Republic (which used to be a pretty conservative paper) blasted her for not going all with Biden's Build Inflation Better plan. The media amplify the talking points of the Left.
Has it occurred to you that the Arizona Republic could still be a 'pretty conservative paper' and just not agree with you? That being anti-BBB could just be another "We can't let the Dems have any wins" talking point of the Right?
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Old 4th August 2022, 02:05 AM   #310
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What every conservative campaign ad looks like:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 4th August 2022, 03:13 AM   #311
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You know your party has gone rogue when enabling Trump's Big Lie is a requirement for the base to consider voting for you.
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Old 4th August 2022, 05:15 AM   #312
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Every Conservative Campaign ad is like if one of those algorithmically generated Print on Demand "I'M A CONSERVATIVE WHO DRIVES A TRUCK AND WAS BORN IN JULY AND IF YOU LIBERALS DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN GO TO HELL" non-sequitur shirts gained sentience and was given a video camera.
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Old 4th August 2022, 06:45 AM   #313
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Old 4th August 2022, 07:07 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Voted in AZ's Republican primary. Picked Taylor-Robson over Lake; no way I'm voting for any Trump-endorsed candidates this cycle. Unfortunately I will probably be crossing over to Katie Hobbs (D) in the general due to the abortion issue; Taylor-Robson wants to enforce the 1901 abortion ban over the 2021 15-week ban which I would greatly prefer. The latest polling shows Taylor-Robson slightly ahead of Lake, which is a reversal from most of the year. Voted for Lamon over Masters, but that was probably in vain. Voted for Beau Lane over 2020 election kook Mark Finchem for Secretary of State; that one I expect to be on the losing side as well.
Unless moderate republicans (which today I guess is any Republican who wants to not overthrow democracy in favor of a one party state run by Trump and facebook conspiracy memes) start voting for Democrats we are probably doomed.
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Old 4th August 2022, 07:20 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
Unless moderate republicans (which today I guess is any Republican who wants to not overthrow democracy in favor of a one party state run by Trump and facebook conspiracy memes) start voting for Democrats we are probably doomed.
And until they face literally any downside that will never happen.

It not politics or legality or even morality, it's deeper and more basic than even that. It's simple cause and effect.

Why should anyone stop being a member of the Republican Death Cult if they face zero consequences for it?
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Old 4th August 2022, 07:26 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Roughly as unpopular as Trump was at this point in his presidency, which was pretty damn unpopular. Although, it took Biden a year or so to drop down to Trump levels of unpopularity.
There is a famous Doonesbury strip about this sort of thing back in the late 70s when numbers suggested that Carter was less popular than Nixon.

The upshot was that these numbers don't differentiate between the loathing for a crook people were expressing with Nixon and the annoyance with incompetence that they were expressing with Carter.

https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1980/09/14
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Old 4th August 2022, 07:37 AM   #317
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In the moment popularity is a piss-poor judge of how actually good a President is.
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Old 4th August 2022, 07:52 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What every conservative campaign ad looks like:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
It's funny, yet sad at the same time. Sad because everything he said accurately portrays the "conservative" movement. There is just about 0.001% exaggeration in the skit.
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Old 4th August 2022, 09:53 AM   #319
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I had a "movement" this morning. It was better than the conservative one.
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Old 4th August 2022, 11:06 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Every Conservative Campaign ad is like if one of those algorithmically generated Print on Demand "I'M A CONSERVATIVE WHO DRIVES A TRUCK AND WAS BORN IN JULY AND IF YOU LIBERALS DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN GO TO HELL" non-sequitur shirts gained sentience and was given a video camera.
You forgot the guns. They all have to shoot guns now.
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