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Old 5th July 2022, 08:57 AM   #161
Lurch
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I think the most important point from your Salon link is this:

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/



This is what I find most frightening. That the American people may very well be so debased by the circumstances around us that they stand by and do nothing while our political and social institutions are destroyed. Or even become so desperate that they embrace totalitarianism, trading their freedom and security for bread and circuses.

Taking his three points above individually:



We already see this in millions of Americans. Rationality has been broken down by incessant propaganda; a social media full of lies and nonsense; and even incredible amounts of true information, much of it negative, that overwhelms even those who have maintained their rationality. Through the Internet, the explosion of cable and satellite television, and social media platforms, we are inundated with so much information that many people cannot determine what is true and what is important. Lies mingle with truth, garbage mingles with intelligence, and people are beaten down mentally until they either succumb to the lies and garbage or they tune out completely and surround themselves with meaningless entertainment, which is just as dangerous.



Which is already ongoing and looks likely to get worse. The biggest problem, in my view, is not those who are actively engaging in voter fraud, but those in the Republican establishment who are quite willing to look the other way and do nothing while the rot grows, because it suits their purposes. This is what happens when one's allegiance is to power rather than to the nation. They are willing to destroy the political system for victory, but can't see that eventually it will bring about their own demise as well.



"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

The easy way out of national crisis is to give power to the despot who claims that they have all the solutions and will make things right, if you will let them handle it by destroying the minorities that they claim caused the crisis. Hitler was quite successful for awhile with this plan, killing millions of Jews and other minorities, confiscating their assets, putting Germany on a high-production war economy. Of course, it eventually had to crumble when he ran out of cannon fodder and essential commodities such as oil. But when Nazi Germany crumbled, the Western Allies wisely decided to rebuild West Germany (and Japan as well) and turned them into productive first-world nations benefitting the world economy. The Soviets, on the other hand, economically raped East Germany and turned it into a third-world hellhole.

But who will rescue the United States? Nobody. Because when the U.S. dictatorship eventually clashes in war with China, either 1. the U.S. and China will engage in nuclear holocaust, or 2. if the U.S. is defeated, there will be nobody there to pick up the pieces and rebuild like we did with Germany and China.

In summary, I'm certain that a dictatorship by Trump or a similar entity will lead to a disaster of epic proportions from which the U.S., and likely the world, will never recover. The 2022 and 2024 elections are our best chance to stop this, because once a dictatorship is established, there may be resistance, but the strength of those who will support the dictatorship will be too much to overcome.

Finally, I am reminded of a song lyric from The Housemartins:

The people who grinned themselves to death
Smiled so much, they failed to take a breath
And even when their kids were starving
They all thought the queen was charming


It's the grinners on the sidelines you need to get on your side. Get them to stop grinning and get out and VOTE!


A fine little essay!
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Old 5th July 2022, 09:09 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I think the most important point from your Salon link is this:

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/



This is what I find most frightening. That the American people may very well be so debased by the circumstances around us that they stand by and do nothing while our political and social institutions are destroyed. Or even become so desperate that they embrace totalitarianism, trading their freedom and security for bread and circuses.

Taking his three points above individually:



We already see this in millions of Americans. Rationality has been broken down by incessant propaganda; a social media full of lies and nonsense; and even incredible amounts of true information, much of it negative, that overwhelms even those who have maintained their rationality. Through the Internet, the explosion of cable and satellite television, and social media platforms, we are inundated with so much information that many people cannot determine what is true and what is important. Lies mingle with truth, garbage mingles with intelligence, and people are beaten down mentally until they either succumb to the lies and garbage or they tune out completely and surround themselves with meaningless entertainment, which is just as dangerous.



Which is already ongoing and looks likely to get worse. The biggest problem, in my view, is not those who are actively engaging in voter fraud, but those in the Republican establishment who are quite willing to look the other way and do nothing while the rot grows, because it suits their purposes. This is what happens when one's allegiance is to power rather than to the nation. They are willing to destroy the political system for victory, but can't see that eventually it will bring about their own demise as well.



"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

The easy way out of national crisis is to give power to the despot who claims that they have all the solutions and will make things right, if you will let them handle it by destroying the minorities that they claim caused the crisis. Hitler was quite successful for awhile with this plan, killing millions of Jews and other minorities, confiscating their assets, putting Germany on a high-production war economy. Of course, it eventually had to crumble when he ran out of cannon fodder and essential commodities such as oil. But when Nazi Germany crumbled, the Western Allies wisely decided to rebuild West Germany (and Japan as well) and turned them into productive first-world nations benefitting the world economy. The Soviets, on the other hand, economically raped East Germany and turned it into a third-world hellhole.

But who will rescue the United States? Nobody. Because when the U.S. dictatorship eventually clashes in war with China, either 1. the U.S. and China will engage in nuclear holocaust, or 2. if the U.S. is defeated, there will be nobody there to pick up the pieces and rebuild like we did with Germany and China.

In summary, I'm certain that a dictatorship by Trump or a similar entity will lead to a disaster of epic proportions from which the U.S., and likely the world, will never recover. The 2022 and 2024 elections are our best chance to stop this, because once a dictatorship is established, there may be resistance, but the strength of those who will support the dictatorship will be too much to overcome.

Finally, I am reminded of a song lyric from The Housemartins:

The people who grinned themselves to death
Smiled so much, they failed to take a breath
And even when their kids were starving
They all thought the queen was charming


It's the grinners on the sidelines you need to get on your side. Get them to stop grinning and get out and VOTE!


Well said.
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Old 5th July 2022, 12:27 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I don't often post anything said by TFG since he was kicked off Twitter, but I saw a few of his "Truths" posted over on Gab yesterday. I don't have a Truth account, but I did sign up for Gab a couple of years back to see what goes on over there, but couldn't bring myself to sign up for Truth.

But these two posts are interesting.

In the one there seems to be a confession that he suspected the crowd could be dangerous on Jan 6, but he went ahead and happily riled them up and pointed them at the Capitol anyway.

And then there is his "Oooops, I did it again" post.

Seriously, just lock him up already.
A lie has been passed around that Pelosi cancelled 10,000 Nat'l Guard troops that Drumpf wanted. It's been debunked repeatedly. Here he is just like always repeating a disproved lie over and over.
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Old 5th July 2022, 01:30 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
A lie has been passed around that Pelosi cancelled 10,000 Nat'l Guard troops that Drumpf wanted. It's been debunked repeatedly. Here he is just like always repeating a disproved lie over and over.
I think when Adolph coined the Big LieWP he did not intend that its promoter, he himself, believe it.
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Old 6th July 2022, 12:24 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I don't often post anything said by TFG since he was kicked off Twitter, but I saw a few of his "Truths" posted over on Gab yesterday. I don't have a Truth account, but I did sign up for Gab a couple of years back to see what goes on over there, but couldn't bring myself to sign up for Truth.

But these two posts are interesting.

In the one there seems to be a confession that he suspected the crowd could be dangerous on Jan 6, but he went ahead and happily riled them up and pointed them at the Capitol anyway.

And then there is his "Oooops, I did it again" post.

Seriously, just lock him up already.
I know this will come as a shock to everyone, but Trump continues to....dare I say it? Why, yes, I do: LIE.
Snopes has debunked it, Politico has debunked it, USA had debunked it, WAPO debunked it, and the AP debunked it.
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Old 6th July 2022, 05:50 AM   #166
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When USA Today is actually getting into it rather than giving some milk toast Disney take, you know you are wrong.
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Old 6th July 2022, 10:48 AM   #167
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Former White House counsel Cipollone to testify before Jan. 6 committee

By Josh Dawsey
Updated July 6, 2022 at 11:40 a.m. EDT|Published July 6, 2022 at 10:56 a.m. EDT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...house-counsel/
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Old 6th July 2022, 11:02 AM   #168
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I look forward to what Cipollone has to say about the events of Jan. 6.
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Old 6th July 2022, 12:48 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
I look forward to what Cipollone has to say about the events of Jan. 6.
I would prefer to see him testify publicly, but should be interesting.
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Old 6th July 2022, 12:52 PM   #170
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Adam Kinsinger Posts recording of calls
his staff have recieved. NSFW language.
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Old 6th July 2022, 03:19 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Not surprising at all coming from Trump supporters. Stupid, bigoted, and foul mouthed.
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Old 6th July 2022, 09:57 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Not surprising at all coming from Trump supporters. Stupid, bigoted, and foul mouthed.
And largely Southern-sounding.
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Old 7th July 2022, 02:57 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Not surprising at all coming from Trump supporters. Stupid, bigoted, and foul mouthed.
..with a strong tendency towards violence.

It would not at all surprise me if one of more members of the January 6 committee had an attempt made to assassinate them. Cheney and Kinzinger would be the most likely candidates, because Trump supporters (the mostly likely group any potential assassin would come from) will see them as traitors to their tribe.
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Old 7th July 2022, 09:44 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
I would prefer to see him testify publicly, but should be interesting.
As long as he is under oath and not saying "fifth" at every question, I'm sure they will have him testify publicly later on.
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Old 7th July 2022, 10:03 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Yet somehow we get told that groups like antifa and BLM are the 'violent' ones.

Supreme court justices demand police protection after their decision that 13 year old girls should be forced to give birth to a rapist's baby. And Susan Collins called police after seeing a message written in chalk, that asked her "PLEASE" clean up your mess.
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Old 7th July 2022, 10:25 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yet somehow we get told that groups like antifa and BLM are the 'violent' ones.

Supreme court justices demand police protection after their decision that 13 year old girls should be forced to give birth to a rapist's baby. And Susan Collins called police after seeing a message written in chalk, that asked her "PLEASE" clean up your mess.
I'm very concerned. That's worrisome.
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Old 7th July 2022, 10:47 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm very concerned. That's worrisome.

Ah, well played!
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Old 7th July 2022, 10:57 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yet somehow we get told that groups like antifa and BLM are the 'violent' ones.

Supreme court justices demand police protection after their decision that 13 year old girls should be forced to give birth to a rapist's baby. And Susan Collins called police after seeing a message written in chalk, that asked her "PLEASE" clean up your mess.
Any time a Republican or right-winger complains about harassment or incivility, Ilhan Omar or Rashida Tlaib should release some of the voicemails they get.
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Old 7th July 2022, 11:27 AM   #179
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One of the things I noticed about those voicemails to Cheney and Kinzinger was the callers' over reliance on the "f' word to express themselves. Erudite, they were not. They sounded like Trump's beloved "poorly educated".
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Old 7th July 2022, 12:23 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
One of the things I noticed about those voicemails to Cheney and Kinzinger was the callers' over reliance on the "f' word to express themselves. Erudite, they were not. They sounded like Trump's beloved "poorly educated".
Not to defend the trumpists, but my much more colorful wife is fond of pointing out to me the following (albeit, over-broad) conclusion about profanity:

F-dat
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Old 7th July 2022, 12:39 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
Not to defend the trumpists, but my much more colorful wife is fond of pointing out to me the following (albeit, over-broad) conclusion about profanity:

F-dat
Interesting...and I agree that "swearing fluency" indicates a larger vocabulary in general. However, that means that people have a greater repertoire of swear words to draw upon. In the case of the Trumpists calling Cheney and Kinzinger, they over relied on just one swear word: the F word. It constituted a large percentage of their entire rants. The C word was thrown in a few times for Cheney and Pelosi but that's a standard favorite of all men, especially, with no class. Well, that and "split-tail".
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Old 7th July 2022, 01:05 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Interesting...and I agree that "swearing fluency" indicates a larger vocabulary in general. However, that means that people have a greater repertoire of swear words to draw upon. In the case of the Trumpists calling Cheney and Kinzinger, they over relied on just one swear word: the F word. It constituted a large percentage of their entire rants. The C word was thrown in a few times for Cheney and Pelosi but that's a standard favorite of all men, especially, with no class. Well, that and "split-tail".
The one that stood out to me was the guy who kept using "cock sucker". The only people I've run into that cuss like that were born well before the 1970s. Maybe it's making a comeback with the MAGA crowd?


ETA: Huh, I thought the forum would censor that

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Old 7th July 2022, 01:19 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Galaxie View Post


ETA: Huh, I thought the forum would censor that
**********

Put the words together and it does
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Old 7th July 2022, 01:23 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Galaxie View Post
The one that stood out to me was the guy who kept using "cock sucker". The only people I've run into that cuss like that were born well before the 1970s. Maybe it's making a comeback with the MAGA crowd?


ETA: Huh, I thought the forum would censor that
Yeah...he was a real loser. Maybe his preoccupation with that term was a Freudian slip.
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Old 7th July 2022, 01:38 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
Not to defend the trumpists, but my much more colorful wife is fond of pointing out to me the following (albeit, over-broad) conclusion about profanity:

F-dat
That's good news for ass holes like me.
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Old 7th July 2022, 02:00 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's good news for ass holes like me.
Show a little class! 'Anal borehole', please.
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Old 7th July 2022, 02:42 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
Not to defend the trumpists, but my much more colorful wife is fond of pointing out to me the following (albeit, over-broad) conclusion about profanity:

F-dat
And those goddamn ******* ******** are right!
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Old 8th July 2022, 08:56 AM   #188
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Glenn KirschnerWP just predicted that trump will be prosecuted at both state and federal levels.
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Old 8th July 2022, 10:26 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Galaxie View Post
The one that stood out to me was the guy who kept using "cock sucker". The only people I've run into that cuss like that were born well before the 1970s. Maybe it's making a comeback with the MAGA crowd?

ETA: Huh, I thought the forum would censor that
Why would the forum censor that?

He was obviously referring to a vacuum cleaner that is used on Roosters to keep their feathers clean. He's obviously insulting him by suggesting he is a little too affectionate with birds.
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Old 8th July 2022, 10:32 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Glenn KirschnerWP just predicted that trump will be prosecuted at both state and federal levels.
A quick google shows the guy has been predicting that for at least a year or so, now.
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Old 8th July 2022, 11:53 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Glenn KirschnerWP just predicted that trump will be prosecuted at both state and federal levels.
Nothing will happen to Trump. No charges, no convictions. Too dangerous.

And it will embolden the GoP
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Old 8th July 2022, 12:31 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Nothing will happen to Trump. No charges, no convictions. Too dangerous.
The pessimist in me says you're probably right.

The optimist has a tiny little glimmer of hope...since in some cases, prosecutions may be carried out by individuals who are less concerned with optics/safety.

Ok, I can imagine Garland might be hesitant to charge Stubby McBonespurs based on dubious excuses. (Oh know! Bad optics to charge an ex-president! He has immunity! The GOP might retaliate! etc.) But someone like Fulton County DA Fani Willis (investigating Trump for election shenanigans) doesn't have to worry about how things look on the national stage, nor about how republicans might try to charge Democrats, since she's not a national political figure. And Leticia James doesn't seem to be backing down (although admittedly her case is civil rather than criminal).
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Old 8th July 2022, 12:37 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Nothing will happen to Trump. No charges, no convictions. Too dangerous.

And it will embolden the GoP
I get the logic but I think it would be more dangerous *not* to prosecute. Terrible precedent, gives the green light to anyone in power to try to seize more, cause if there are no consequences, why hesitate.
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Old 8th July 2022, 12:56 PM   #194
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
A quick google shows the guy has been predicting that for at least a year or so, now.
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Nothing will happen to Trump. No charges, no convictions. Too dangerous.

And it will embolden the GoP

06/1972 - Watergate Hotel break-in and the kidnapping of Martha Mitchell.
07/1972 - WAPO Reporters Woodward & Bernstein begin investigation.
09/1972 - WAPO publishes article about possible Republican involvement in break-in.
03/1973 - Grand Jury indicts the "Watergate Seven".
08/1973 - The Saturday Night massacre.
04/1974 - Nixon releases heavily edited transcripts of White House tapes.
08/1974 - The Smoking gun tapes reveal Nixon's involvement and he resigns to avoid impeachment.
10/1974 - The Watergate Seven go on trial.
01/1975 - Six of the seven were found guilty on all charges.

The Watergate scandal resulted in 69 government officials being charged and 48 being found guilty. It took over two years to visit justice on these scumbags... the wheels of justice grind slowly, but relentlessly.
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Old 8th July 2022, 03:16 PM   #195
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by stanfr View Post
I get the logic but I think it would be more dangerous *not* to prosecute. Terrible precedent, gives the green light to anyone in power to try to seize more, cause if there are no consequences, why hesitate.
Agree 100%!

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
06/1972 - Watergate Hotel break-in and the kidnapping of Martha Mitchell.
07/1972 - WAPO Reporters Woodward & Bernstein begin investigation.
09/1972 - WAPO publishes article about possible Republican involvement in break-in.
03/1973 - Grand Jury indicts the "Watergate Seven".
08/1973 - The Saturday Night massacre.
04/1974 - Nixon releases heavily edited transcripts of White House tapes.
08/1974 - The Smoking gun tapes reveal Nixon's involvement and he resigns to avoid impeachment.
10/1974 - The Watergate Seven go on trial.
01/1975 - Six of the seven were found guilty on all charges.

The Watergate scandal resulted in 69 government officials being charged and 48 being found guilty. It took over two years to visit justice on these scumbags... the wheels of justice grind slowly, but relentlessly.
The big difference is in 1972-1973, a large number of Republicans still had some sense of country over party loyalty. The scum in the GOP party leadership now have none.
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Old 8th July 2022, 03:24 PM   #196
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Rep. Lofgren (J6C) says Cipollone in his interview was "honest", "candid", "did not contradict the testimony of other witnesses," and they did "learn a few new things". She was careful to point out that "not contradicting" is not necessarily the same as "confirming" because he may not have been present at certain events or could not remember.
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Old 8th July 2022, 04:01 PM   #197
slyjoe
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Agree 100%!



The big difference is in 1972-1973, a large number of Republicans still had some sense of country over party loyalty. The scum in the GOP party leadership now have none.
I blame Ford. Nixon should never have been pardoned.
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Old 8th July 2022, 04:11 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
I blame Ford. Nixon should never have been pardoned.
He wouldn't have gotten the job without the pardon deal. The GOP was still an itsy bit loyal to Nixon and they controlled the firing of Agnew (so much for VPs really being the preferred replacement) and installing of Ford. You can bet that was part of the deal.

But let's get something else straight, what Nixon did paled in comparison to Drumpf.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 8th July 2022 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 8th July 2022, 04:14 PM   #199
slyjoe
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He wouldn't have gotten the job without the pardon deal. The GOP was still an itsy bit loyal to Nixon and they controlled the firing of Agnew (so much for VPs really being the preferred replacement) and installing of Ford. You can bet that was part of the deal.
Ford got the presidency because he was VP. Nixon was going to be impeached anyway. Nixon had the support of what, 4 senators (at least according to the Goldwater conversation) ?
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Old 8th July 2022, 08:58 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The pessimist in me says you're probably right.

The optimist has a tiny little glimmer of hope...since in some cases, prosecutions may be carried out by individuals who are less concerned with optics/safety.

Ok, I can imagine Garland might be hesitant to charge Stubby McBonespurs based on dubious excuses. (Oh know! Bad optics to charge an ex-president! He has immunity! The GOP might retaliate! etc.) But someone like Fulton County DA Fani Willis (investigating Trump for election shenanigans) doesn't have to worry about how things look on the national stage, nor about how republicans might try to charge Democrats, since she's not a national political figure. And Leticia James doesn't seem to be backing down (although admittedly her case is civil rather than criminal).
If I ever hear someone say that to my face I’m going to scream, “shut up, you ignorant clod.”

The GOP has never seriously said “well, we really had no intention to do this blindly partisan thing, but since you guys did it first, we now feel justified in doing it.”
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