Continuation The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 5

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

It's only in your propaganda rags.

I guess all the videos are fakes.

Makes sense.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I for one think it were the Russians themselves. It's to sew discord among the many people in "the West" who still call attacks on civilian infrastructure "terrorism", and the indoctrinated masses. Look just how the train service has resumed already today, and the cars are able to pass as well, although of course with huge traffic jams. It all points to a false flag by Putler, including the tweets by "Ukrainian" officials who are of course Russian agents.

The Crimea Bridge is military infrastructure these days..

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

For those slow on the information curve: A truck exploded, remote controlled by an underwater drone to time with the train that carried fuel in the opposite direction.

To which I say,

[gypsyjackson]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

It's only in your propaganda rags.

Is propaganda rags a fancy term for foot wraps?

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I for one think it were the Russians themselves. It's to sew discord among the many people in "the West" who still call attacks on civilian infrastructure "terrorism", and the indoctrinated masses. Look just how the train service has resumed already today, and the cars are able to pass as well, although of course with huge traffic jams. It all points to a false flag by Putler, including the tweets by "Ukrainian" officials who are of course Russian agents.

Or, Ukraine just made your president their bitch. I see why you call Zelensky a comedian. He certainly just made me laugh.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by The Don

I guess all the videos are fakes.

Makes sense.

The videos of poorly armed, clothed and fed Russian soldiers? I haven't seen any with a verifiable origin.

[SpitfireIX]

YouTube has demonitized several prominent channels that report or comment on Ukraine, including Perun, Denys Davydov, Lazerpig, and Jake Broe. Perun says YT told him it's some kind of mistake, but so far the others haven't said anything about having heard from YT. Outrageous if it's not a mistake. Another oddity is Denys said they also demonitized his aviation channel, but Perun said his gaming channel is unaffected.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

The videos of poorly armed, clothed and fed Russian soldiers? I haven't seen any with a verifiable origin.

You never will but only because you don't want to. Of course, you'll swallow any line of Orc bull **** that justifies the genocide you support.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Aridas

All this discussion about the bridge and well, I'm seeing some excellent candidates for what actually happened.

The big sneeze theory is rather compelling, but how can you beat photographic evidence that it was Godzilla?

Godzilla must have had a tough time getting through the defenses, though. Military dolphins are some of the apex of defensive technology, after all.

Perhaps one of the most fanciful things that I'm seeing, though, is Russia's claim that the bridge counts as civilian infrastructure. That's also with the added implication that Russia actually cares about avoiding targeting civilian infrastructure.

Ukrainians are experts at trolling. I think this is the leader of the pack.

https://twitter.com/by_by_duck/statu...eMUnIrkOQXORog

Happy Birthday Mr President

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

It's only in your propaganda rags.

No I think you're the one listening to Baghdad Bob.

[Craig4]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2022-05-08/

Sorry Orcs, you already ate this cake; you can't have it too.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2022-05-08/

If the bridge in Crimea is civilian infrastructure then the Ukrainian bridge at Irpin was too.

[SpitfireIX]

Someone in the comments to Perun's announcement speculated that the demonitizations could be due to a Russian bot attack. Would anyone who's more familiar with the nuts and bolts of YouTube than I am care to comment?

[crescent]

Originally Posted by Craig4

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2022-05-08/

Sorry Orcs, you already ate this cake; you can't have it too.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2022-05-08/

If the bridge in Crimea is civilian infrastructure then the Ukrainian bridge at Irpin was too.

And the one at Zatoka, which Russia bombed several times earlier in the war when it still had munitions accurate enough to hit it.

(That's the bridge that connects Ukraine's far western coastal areas to the Odesa area. With that bridge out traffic needs to go through a little corner of Moldova, not far from the Transnistria area that is occupied by Russian "Peacekeepers".)

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

No I think you're the one listening to Baghdad Bob.

I know that you think that. Doesn't change reality.

[timhau]

Originally Posted by crescent

And the one at Zatoka, which Russia bombed several times earlier in the war when it still had munitions accurate enough to hit it.

(That's the bridge that connects Ukraine's far western coastal areas to the Odesa area. With that bridge out traffic needs to go through a little corner of Moldova, not far from the Transnistria area that is occupied by Russian "Peacekeepers".)

Screw bridges, after repeatedly destroying apartment buildings, schools, hospitals and kindergartens, you don't get to complain about the other guy hitting "civilian infrastructure", period.

[Childlike Empress]

I'll say it once more what I said countless times at least since late last year when Russia issued their ultimatums. This isn't a war of Russia against Ukraine, it is a war of "the West" against the rest. And it is upon us, overwhelmingly citizens of "the West", to fix the problem that is so aptly illustrated in the cartoon two pages ago. Otherwise, the future looks grim.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

For those slow on the information curve: A truck exploded, remote controlled by an underwater drone to time with the train that carried fuel in the opposite direction.

Wow, that's impressive if true! Sounds almost like something from a Bond film, or maybe more on the line of Mission Impossible. If the AFU can do that maybe some sort of covert op against Herr Putin isn't totally far fetched!

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I'll say it once more what I said countless times at least since late last year when Russia issued their ultimatums. This isn't a war of Russia against Ukraine, it is a war of "the West" against the rest. And it is upon us, overwhelmingly citizens of "the West", to fix the problem that is so aptly illustrated in the cartoon two pages ago. Otherwise, the future looks grim.

So why did Russia start this "war against the west"? The only place they are fighting this "war against the west" is Ukraine. Do they consider Ukraine to be a part of "the west"? How does killing Ukrainian civilians advance their cause in this "war against the west"? If "the west" was inclined to be a little less restrained the Russian problem could be fixed very quickly, and most assuredly not in Russia's favor.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Of course, now our Russian apologists have a hard choice.

Is attacking a bridge like this Terrorism? In which case Russia has been commiting acts of terrorism since day one.
Or..
Is attacking a bridge like this a legitimate military target, in which case Ukraine has shown that Russia's defense of it's vital support lines is utterly lacking, so well done them for pointing that out.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

No I think you're the one listening to Baghdad Bob.

Blyatskrieg Bob

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

And it is upon us, overwhelmingly citizens of "the West", to fix the problem that is so aptly illustrated in the cartoon two pages ago. Otherwise, the future looks grim.

This one?



I'm sure the Ukrainians and their supporters in Western intelligence services are working on that problem. Have some patience.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Maybe he and Putin could take the train to the front lines to prove the security of the bridge and to show they have the same bravery as Zelensky?

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

For those slow on the information curve: A truck exploded, remote controlled by an underwater drone to time with the train that carried fuel in the opposite direction.

And you know this because?

Alternatively,

and to quote Craig4



If the Ukrainians managed to pull off something so intricate, Putin's toast.

They could probably have a holographic Shiogu shoot Putin with real bullets at his next TV address.

Yes the attack was probably timed to hit the train as well. How the road bridge was hit is still unclear.

[crescent]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Of course, now our Russian apologists have a hard choice.

Is attacking a bridge like this Terrorism? In which case Russia has been commiting acts of terrorism since day one.
Or..
Is attacking a bridge like this a legitimate military target, in which case Ukraine has shown that Russia's defense of it's vital support lines is utterly lacking, so well done them for pointing that out.

Some aspiring film maker needs to start making parody videos of Russian "Smoking" accidents.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I'll say it once more what I said countless times at least since late last year when Russia issued their ultimatums. This isn't a war of Russia against Ukraine, it is a war of "the West" against the rest. And it is upon us, overwhelmingly citizens of "the West", to fix the problem that is so aptly illustrated in the cartoon two pages ago. Otherwise, the future looks grim.

You seem proud of your nonsense. Russia attacked Ukraine purely to seize control of it for themselves. It's Russia's war because they started it, Russia's blunder because they deluded themselves into believing they still had the capabilities of a superpower, and it will be Russia's humiliating defeat because they're too stupid to go home. Let's just hope Putin and his kind die along the way. That's the best Russia can hope for at this point.

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I'll say it once more what I said countless times at least since late last year when Russia issued their ultimatums. This isn't a war of Russia against Ukraine, it is a war of "the West" against the rest. And it is upon us, overwhelmingly citizens of "the West", to fix the problem that is so aptly illustrated in the cartoon two pages ago. Otherwise, the future looks grim.

Putin self-owning despite the attempts to diplomatically incentivize him to not turn Russia into ever more of a hellhole?* Sorry, assassinating Putin is a bad idea for "the West" to engage in. Putin's efforts are a problem that the Russians need to handle or things will almost definitely just keep going downhill.

* - An interpretation far more in line with reality than your distinctly uncertain suggested possibilities.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by jimbob

And you know this because?

Because I know where to find real information while you have been lied to by your favorite rag "the Grauniad" for decades and still haven't realized it.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I know that you think that. Doesn't change reality.

No it doesn't. But it's your country that punishes dissent. It is your country that leader after leader continue to have strange and unlikely accidents.

So I get why you feel the need to repeat this nonsense. I wouldn't want to fall out of a window either.

[Doubt]

Whatever exploded was likely closer to the roadway surface than the rail section. The force of the blast would have dropped off quickly. To drop the road bridge sections from the rail, the rail section would have at least been badly twisted at the rails if not broken outright.

Given that we don't see splashes from rail cars hitting the water tells us the roadway is where to look.

So what blew up? Truck seems unlikely. Several sections of the roadway dropped. The truck might have taken out the span it was on, but the other sections would have to be pretty weak. The blast would have been radiating outward almost parallel to the roadway from the truck making it hard to drop the spans that way. Also the roadway would have shielded the supports underneath. OTOH, the bridge project was started and completed pretty quickly, which might have made for a weak structure. My own experience with Russia tells me that code enforcement for any sort of project is either weak or non-existent.

Something underneath makes the most sense. But there could also have been some bad engineering and manufacturing work done, so the truck cannot be ruled out completely. Whatever did this was not on the railroad tracks is the one thing I am fairly sure about.

I still have an old copy of FM 5-34 around from the 80's. That would help them blow up bridges if they can get right up to them and place charges in key places. That does not look like what happened here. Also note that the math for that could be done by just about anybody that made through one algebra course. Although I have memories of trying to teach some of my fellow soldiers how to calculate the cross sectional area of an I-beam and watched them get it wrong over and over again.

[Doubt]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Because I know where to find real information while you have been lied to by your favorite rag "the Grauniad" for decades and still haven't realized it.

And yet when you do post things like pictures of burning M113's they turn out to be from long ago past conflicts. Confidence in your sources is, at best, over rated.

[pzkpfw]

In threads on the gas pipelines I've read claims of Russians having a habit of building-in demolition charges.

I can imagine that being done on the bridge in case it ever needed to be brought down for defence.

I'm not seriously suggesting this, but it's fun to imagine the Russians accidentally blowing up their own bridge.

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I'll say it once more what I said countless times at least since late last year when Russia issued their ultimatums. This isn't a war of Russia against Ukraine, it is a war of "the West" against the rest. And it is upon us, overwhelmingly citizens of "the West", to fix the problem that is so aptly illustrated in the cartoon two pages ago. Otherwise, the future looks grim.

And you can say it a million times and will get laughed at and ridiculed for spouting lying fascist propaganda a million times

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Because I know where to find real information while you have been lied to by your favorite rag "the Grauniad" for decades and still haven't realized it.

Don't you mean "real information"? As in "it came from Russia".

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by Oystein

And you can say it a million times and will get laughed at and ridiculed for spouting lying fascist propaganda a million times

It gets boring fast, though, like much inane spin does.

[Olmstead]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Because I know where to find real information while you have been lied to by your favorite rag "the Grauniad" for decades and still haven't realized it.

Recent events seemed to have touched a nerve. All Russia really had going for it is "strength". A strong leader, a strong army, and a strong populace with strong beliefs. Does it upset you that for all your ideas of a West with weak leaders and weak people who have been crippled by the disease of liberalism, the great might of Russia is crumbling when faced with a fraction of the West's power?

[Doubt]

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

In threads on the gas pipelines I've read claims of Russians having a habit of building-in demolition charges.

I can imagine that being done on the bridge in case it ever needed to be brought down for defence.

I'm not seriously suggesting this, but it's fun to imagine the Russians accidentally blowing up their own bridge.

Pre-chambering a bridge is possible. A lot of bridges in Germany built during the cold war were pre-chambered for demolitions. However, explosives have a shelf life. Nitrogen compounds will decay on their own. You would not want to keep something that will degrade over time in place like that. Especially not near water. Humidity can wreck the explosives even if the compounds themselves don't degrade.

There would also still be a need to get the blast started. Plastic explosives are very stable and typically require both heat and pressure to get them started. You can even set C-4 on fire and it won't explode.

[Craig4]

It's really impressive that more Russians have fled the country than were conscripted.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Because I know where to find real information while you have been lied to by your favorite rag "the Grauniad" for decades and still haven't realized it.

I normally don't find your pro NAZI posts funny but this one made me laugh.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Because I know where to find real information while you have been lied to by your favorite rag "the Grauniad" for decades and still haven't realized it.

So why don't you share your sources?


A truck-based bomb is certainly possible as far as the information I'm aware of. The rest seems like speculation. With a lot of intricate points of failure that could have been avoided by someone planning this.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by crescent

There is a claim going around that Russia has used a chemical weapon in Kherson.

The claim seems to be that a hand grenade (or several) with Chloropicrin was used.

Here's a sample tweet, although twitter is fairly blowing up right now with tweets and retweets of the same video:

https://twitter.com/Mykola65109280/s...25845444849664

It's plausible of course, but feels a bit uncertain. The chemical was developed as a chemical weapon a century ago - but not a lethal one, more as a tear gas to get soldiers to remove their protective equipment and thus get exposed to the follow-up chemical attack. It has modern use as an agricultural pesticide and is sometimes mixed with much more toxic fumigants as a warning agent (get a dose of the chloropicrin and you know it so you leave and don't get killed by the really bad stuff).

I suppose you could use it to flush people out of fortified positions. It also still seems possible that there was a leak from an agricultural source, as much of the current fighting is in and around farmlands.

Almost certainly wasn't chloropicrin.

This guy has literally written books on chemical warfare.

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/statu...dXoHK-Bn-rVmKA

Quote:

Dan Kaszeta ��������
@DanKaszeta
Normal
16%
OK. Here's what I have to say about the alleged "chloropicrin grenade" attack in Ukraine. There's a lot of holes in this story and I think some misunderstanding is going on.

(Thread)
4:19 PM · Sep 24, 2022
·Twitter Web App
136
Retweets
32
Quote Tweets
527
Likes

later in that thread

Quote:

Many accounts go on to name the device as a "K-51 chloropicrin grenade"

Quote:

However, the K-51 is not a "chloropicrin grenade". It is a CS tear gas grenade. https://cat-uxo.com/explosive-hazard...1-hand-grenade

he then shows a Soviet chloropicrin grenade, which is metal, partly because chloropicrin is corrosive to many plastics.


ETA: of course, use of tear gas is also against the Geneva Convention