Committee acquires Trump tax returns. Some items appear sketchy.

Ladewig

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Ladewig
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Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ns-among-red-flags-in-trump-taxes/ar-AA15w0ck

Dozens of audit triggers litter Donald Trump’s tax returns, according to Congress’s top non-partisan tax lawyers: questionable private jet expenses, large unsubstantiated charitable deductions and dubious payments to the former president’s children, among others.

[snip]

Among the items the report says should merit scrutiny are tens of millions of dollars in deductions claimed by Trump and his companies, including for business expenses incurred while president and $126.5 million in write-offs over five years tied to sales from an entity that didn’t appear to be selling anything.
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Sketchy might be an understatement.
 
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Ladewig said:
Sketchy might be an understatement.
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I don't think that'll be much of a surprise to anyone. I have to say though, as much as I dislike Trump I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of the way they're going about releasing his taxes. Should he have released his taxes like every other POTUS has in the last 30ish years? Yes. Was the committee right in getting his taxes to review the process? Yes. Do I think they should have used the courts just to get Trump's taxes so they could release them because he didn't? That I'm a little shaky on. It's not a hill I'm going to die on, but it's hitting me the wrong way.
 
I wonder if there will be anything truly surprising. I mean, we all know Trump is pathologically corrupt, so no one's going to be surprised to see evidence of what we already know. But I can't rule out the possibility that there will things in Trump's tax records that make even the most jaded say, "Holy ******* ******".
 
plague311 said:
I don't think that'll be much of a surprise to anyone. I have to say though, as much as I dislike Trump I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of the way they're going about releasing his taxes.
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I’d like to learn more about that.

The law that allows the committee to request any tax return very explicitly says that such returns cannot be released with any identifying information - such as a name.
 
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The question is, to what extent was Trump dishonest with his tax returns, not whether he was dishonest? But, is any super wealthy person totally honest with their tax returns?
 
Ladewig said:
I’d like to learn more about that.

The law that allows the committee to request any tax return very explicitly says that such returns cannot be released with any identifying information - such as a name.
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The way I heard that explained was an INDIVIDUAL can't release the information. But Congress can.
 
The ACTUAL sketchy thing is that Trump wasn't audited the way it was MANDATORY.
Dems are 100% correct that the auditing process for Presidents needs to be overhauled and taken out of the control of the White House.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The ACTUAL sketchy thing is that Trump wasn't audited the way it was MANDATORY.
Dems are 100% correct that the auditing process for Presidents needs to be overhauled and taken out of the control of the White House.
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I agree. I know that they got the returns, technically, to review the process and that process was found to be wanting, badly. I'm a little surprised at how little oversight to be POTUS there is, given the power of the office.
 
plague311 said:
I agree. I know that they got the returns, technically, to review the process and that process was found to be wanting, badly. I'm a little surprised at how little oversight to be POTUS there is, given the power of the office.
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There was an assumption that the office holder wouldn't do anything too illegal before, during or after their term in office.

President Trump demonstrated how inadequate that assumption was.
 
plague311 said:
... Do I think they should have used the courts just to get Trump's taxes so they could release them because he didn't? That I'm a little shaky on. It's not a hill I'm going to die on, but it's hitting me the wrong way.
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The evidence doesn't support this. Not saying it wasn't on anyone in the committee's mind. But Trump's obvious attempt to hide his returns and everything else we know he does like cheating charities, there was sufficient evidence warranting a look at those taxes.

Not only was he not being audited, in the first 2 years he was POTUS he blocked an automatic audit that should have happened. (Link is in the Trump as POTUS thread.) Congress' oversight duty was needed.
 
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I have always suspected that Trump provides very little, if any, of his own money to charity.

Instead, I suspect that one of the Trump holding companies, one of the Trump foundations, or some other Trump shell company, is the actual source of the Trump charitable donations and that Trump takes credit for giving this money even though none of this money comes out of his own personal pocket.

In any event, I have been glancing through the report produced by the "Joint Committee on Taxation" this morning and I was hoping that it provide some good information about Trump making personal donations to charity. But alas, the report does not have much to say about this issue.

However, the Committee is supposed to release redacted versions of the Trump Tax Returns, so I hope that these documents will provide some good information on this issue.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The evidence doesn't support this. Not saying it wasn't on anyone in the committee's mind. But Trump's obvious attempt to hide his returns and everything else we know he does like cheating charities, there was sufficient evidence warranting a look at those taxes.
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Let me be a bit more clear. I have no issues with the committee acquiring and looking at his taxes in order to make legislative decisions. None. Zero.

What is striking me wrong is that they're releasing them to the public, which they claim wasn't their intent. To me it looks a bit petty and it appears like the biggest reason they did this was to release the returns publicly. Which, again, is fine if they had been straight up about it. I believe we, as the public, deserve to know the character of who we elect to POTUS and their taxes give an in-depth look as to how they handle their business. If they're shady as hell in their business practices then they're probably shady in other places and not to be trusted.

Skeptic Ginger said:
Not only was he not being audited, in the first 2 years he was POTUS he blocked an automatic audit that should have happened. (Link is in the Trump as POTUS thread.) Congress' oversight duty was needed.
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Which I have no argument with at all, but none of that requires public release of his taxes. None of it.
 
I think the release to the public is needed, as Trump is unlikely to be held accountable by any other body.
 
It is an established routine that high profile candidates release their tax returns - given that since Nixon every candidate has done this, a pattern has been established that the Committee is honoring in practice and might suggest to make into a Law.
It is now clear that Trump was lying about the reasons he withheld the Returns, and it is in the public interest to not let him get away with it.

Also, what could Republicans do in retaliation? Release Biden's tax returns?
 
plague311 said:
Do I think they should have used the courts just to get Trump's taxes so they could release them because he didn't? That I'm a little shaky on. It's not a hill I'm going to die on, but it's hitting me the wrong way.
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It does raise the possibility of setting a bad precedent. I don't know whether it is necessary to actually release Trump's returns to make a solid case to the public that he used his position to block a legally-required audit or to make referrals to the DOJ regarding possible fraud in his returns.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It is an established routine that high profile candidates release their tax returns - given that since Nixon every candidate has done this, a pattern has been established that the Committee is honoring in practice and might suggest to make into a Law.
It is now clear that Trump was lying about the reasons he withheld the Returns, and it is in the public interest to not let him get away with it.

Also, what could Republicans do in retaliation? Release Biden's tax returns?
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This ^ plus: Trump said multiple times he would release his returns as soon as the audit was done. To go back now and claim releasing the records was a political stunt or whatever the charge is, all the committee need do is show clip after clip of Trump saying he plans to release them.

The public has a right to keep Trump to that promise.
 
TellyKNeasuss said:
It does raise the possibility of setting a bad precedent. I don't know whether it is necessary to actually release Trump's returns to make a solid case to the public that he used his position to block a legally-required audit or to make referrals to the DOJ regarding possible fraud in his returns.
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NO! NO! NO! It sets a great precedent! America deserve leaders that are beyond reproach. It deserves to know that their leaders are not tax cheats. We deserve leaders that are free from foreign entanglements.

The IRS,according to law has a responsibility to audit the President's tax returns EVERY YEAR. But they didn’t and when they did, they didn’t check a thing.
 
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IRS bought and paid for by Trump. Mnuchin controlled the deferral of mandatory audits of Trump's returns.

Yes the public does indeed have a right to know what's in those returns.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
This ^ plus: Trump said multiple times he would release his returns as soon as the audit was done. To go back now and claim releasing the records was a political stunt or whatever the charge is, all the committee need do is show clip after clip of Trump saying he plans to release them.

The public has a right to keep Trump to that promise.
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I'm not, nor is anyone else I'm seeing, saying that Trump shouldn't have been audited or that he shouldn't have released his taxes. My point is that if releasing his tax returns to the public was the goal of the committee then they should have said that to begin with. They didn't. They said they wanted it for legislative purposes, but are now just going to release them to the public. I find that to be dirty pool. I'm ok with it in this case, like I said it's not a hill I'm going to die on, but I do believe in holding people to their word.
 
plague311 said:
I don't think that'll be much of a surprise to anyone. I have to say though, as much as I dislike Trump I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of the way they're going about releasing his taxes. Should he have released his taxes like every other POTUS has in the last 30ish years? Yes. Was the committee right in getting his taxes to review the process? Yes. Do I think they should have used the courts just to get Trump's taxes so they could release them because he didn't? That I'm a little shaky on. It's not a hill I'm going to die on, but it's hitting me the wrong way.
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I and someone else mentioned this yesterday. I hate the guy but I'd like to make sure this isn't a bad move.

What if it was the Repubs and the roles were reversed? Would you/we/Dems complain? I have to think we would.

Every other President volunteered to do it. There is no requirement. Hey the Repubs play dirty every day so there's that, but I want to be able to shout down anyone who complains about it and I really have no justification other than "we want to see them".

As with you, not a hill to die on but I don't want the give the Repubs any legit ammo. I figured they'd be leaked anyways.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This ^ plus: Trump said multiple times he would release his returns as soon as the audit was done. To go back now and claim releasing the records was a political stunt or whatever the charge is, all the committee need do is show clip after clip of Trump saying he plans to release them.

The public has a right to keep Trump to that promise.
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Not really. What if Biden hadn't chosen a black woman for VP as he said he would do? Can't exactly force him to.

It should be a requirement but it is not.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:

IRS bought and paid for by Trump. Mnuchin controlled the deferral of mandatory audits of Trump's returns.

Yes the public does indeed have a right to know what's in those returns.
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Was thinking the same thing (hilighted).

We should have a right to know, but where is that stated? Do we?

Once he's indicted I would agree. Yes, I want to see them, but not sure this is a good way to do it. Not sure it isn't. I'm not convinced.
 
mgidm86 said:
Was thinking the same thing (hilighted).

We should have a right to know, but where is that stated? Do we?

Once he's indicted I would agree. Yes, I want to see them, but not sure this is a good way to do it. Not sure it isn't. I'm not convinced.
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You have to ask yourself, if the hand was on the other foot, what would Trump do?
Spiteful, vindictive, mean spirited, Donald J. Freakin' Trump.
It doesn't really require much thought to guess what he'd do to someone else in his shoes.
He deserves nothing less than what he'd do himself.
People are just saying.
 
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plague311 said:
I'm not, nor is anyone else I'm seeing, saying that Trump shouldn't have been audited or that he shouldn't have released his taxes. My point is that if releasing his tax returns to the public was the goal of the committee then they should have said that to begin with. They didn't. They said they wanted it for legislative purposes, but are now just going to release them to the public. I find that to be dirty pool. I'm ok with it in this case, like I said it's not a hill I'm going to die on, but I do believe in holding people to their word.
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They were going to. But they changed their minds. Just like Trump.

They did what was required. And what makes you think that disclosure ISN'T a legitimate legislative purpose?
 
Mike! said:
You have to ask yourself, if the hand was on the other foot, what would Trump do?
Spiteful, vindictive, mean spirited, Donald J. Freakin' Trump.
It doesn't really require much thought to guess what he'd do to someone else in his shoes.
He deserves nothing less than what he'd do himself.
People are just saying.
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Trump who ordered the IRS to audit his political enemies.
 
plague311 said:
I don't think that'll be much of a surprise to anyone. I have to say though, as much as I dislike Trump I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of the way they're going about releasing his taxes. Should he have released his taxes like every other POTUS has in the last 30ish years? Yes. Was the committee right in getting his taxes to review the process? Yes. Do I think they should have used the courts just to get Trump's taxes so they could release them because he didn't? That I'm a little shaky on. It's not a hill I'm going to die on, but it's hitting me the wrong way.
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The law in question provides that the IRS "shall" release the returns upon request from the specified Congressional committees. Congress was entitled to them. They went to court because Trump's Treasury Secretary claimed the law didn't mean what it said. Going to court was the only way Congress could assert its authority. You think they shouldn't have?
 
Mike! said:
You have to ask yourself, if the hand was on the other foot, what would Trump do?
Spiteful, vindictive, mean spirited, Donald J. Freakin' Trump.
It doesn't really require much thought to guess what he'd do to someone else in his shoes.
He deserves nothing less than what he'd do himself.
People are just saying.
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I'd rather not make decisions based on what Trump would do in the same situation.

I agree he deserves it. I wouldn't complain if someone ran him over with a truck. I'd like as much justification for this as possible...besides "we want it". That's kinda why I'm here.

I always tell people "If you are okay with the other side doing it then you may be on solid ground. If not, rethink your stance."
 
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Apparently the IRS is required to audit current US presidents every year. From the UK's Guardian:
US tax authorities failed to audit Donald Trump for two years while he was in the White House, Democratic lawmakers said, despite a program that makes tax review of sitting presidents compulsory.

Internal Revenue Service said:
4.8.4.2.4 (03-12-2015)
Audit of President and Vice President
The individual tax returns for the President and the Vice President are subject to mandatory review
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The new report suggests US tax authorities only began to audit Trump’s 2016 tax filings in 2019, more than two years into his presidency. The audit, a requirement dating back to the Nixon administration, came only after Democrats took control of the House and requested Trump’s tax information. Guardian news link
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What I'm concerned about are the Republicans taking control of Congress next January and attempting to sabotage all of this. Hey, I was around back when the GOP turned on Nixon. They hung him out to dry. What's so special about trump? :boggled:
 
plague311 said:
I'm not, nor is anyone else I'm seeing, saying that Trump shouldn't have been audited or that he shouldn't have released his taxes. My point is that if releasing his tax returns to the public was the goal of the committee then they should have said that to begin with. They didn't. They said they wanted it for legislative purposes, but are now just going to release them to the public. I find that to be dirty pool. I'm ok with it in this case, like I said it's not a hill I'm going to die on, but I do believe in holding people to their word.
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I know what you're saying. Believe it or not I can read. Repeating it is not helping your case.

When did the committee mislead anyone about what they would do with the returns? IOW did they promise if they got them they would keep them secret?

It's not dirty pool. I have pointed out the reasons why the public has a right to know. Like this, for example:

https://cnsnews.com/article/washing...ease-trumps-tax-returns-was-never-about-being
But notably, Neal began his remarks by discussing "what this room was like on January 6th."

"This table," Neal said, "was against those doors, the doors were bowing, the room was under assault, and the Capitol Police were in this office with me, with guns drawn on the door...the windows through here were all broken, the sink was ripped out, and the demonstrators were pushing right through these windows as well.

"And I think that that's important, because as we've attempted to restore the regular order here, we've had a chance to see the role that government is supposed to play."

Neal then explained that the committee's purpose in releasing Trump's tax returns in coming days is to show that the IRS failed in its duty to conduct mandatory audits for presidents and vice presidents. Neal said the committee learned that the first mandatory IRS audit into Trump's tax returns was opened two years into his presidency -- on the same day the committee requested his tax returns.
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Of course the GOP is clutching their pearls and screaming 'slippery slope'. Did they do that when Trump kept claiming he would release those tax records when the 'audit' was done? Nope. They backed up his false assertion.

You could address those reasons why the returns should be released or keep repeating yourself.
 
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Who cares? Half the people In this country probably cheat their taxes as much. They just don't make as much. And they personally cheat them, without having someone else prepare them.

I never got why anyone really cared that much about a politician's tax returns.
 
mgidm86 said:
Not really. What if Biden hadn't chosen a black woman for VP as he said he would do? Can't exactly force him to.

It should be a requirement but it is not.
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Your analogy has a few holes. If Biden had not kept that promise the voters would have had something to say about it.

Instead Trump made up the 'I'm being audited' excuse. That left the voters with a gray area.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It is now clear that Trump was lying about the reasons he withheld the Returns, and it is in the public interest to not let him get away with it.
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TellyKNeasuss said:
It's been clear for more than 6 years.
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He has been fudging and cooking and hiding and lying about his tax returns for decades since he first extorted another kid's lunch money at school, and did not see why he had to stop doing that just because he became President of the USA. In fact, being POTUS gave him "immunity" from all the common laws that apply to all the other suckers and losers everyone else.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Your analogy has a few holes. If Biden had not kept that promise the voters would have had something to say about it.

Instead Trump made up the 'I'm being audited' excuse. That left the voters with a gray area.
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But they couldn't force him to keep his "promise".

Anyways, I read your explanation a few posts up and it makes sense pretty much, at some point the public would have to see them I think, for the IRS failure, and for Trump. Evidence. But anyways I still think unless he's charged there is no precedent for this.

That's my last word though, I've said my piece, I'm okay with the release personally. I mean **** him and **** anyone who cares really (repubs).

I'm pretty sure I came here to say something else and now I forgot. Maybe about the release of the Republican "Jan 6 Analysis" or whatever they called it today.

Hmm nope wrong thread. Oh well :)
 
Warp12 said:
Who cares? Half the people In this country probably cheat their taxes as much. They just don't make as much. And they personally cheat them, without having someone else prepare them.

I never got why anyone really cared that much about a politician's tax returns.
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Well, maybe because someone railing against 'handouts' in his campaign when talking about the US tax dollar clearly relies on massive tax dollar handouts himself. And if that person then also complains about how people cheat the system to steal tax dollars he should not be seen to do so himself?

But then again, the massive hypocrisy in the GOP is what seems to make it attractive to you as you defend each case.
 
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