What are the laws regarding the title "Dr.".....outside the US.

[Ralph]

So I'm walking my dogs the other morning waiting for my favorite
blues program to come on----when I catch the tail-end this talk show that always precedes the blues program.


The speaker's someone named "DR Erika Duffy" and she's running off to a caller about angels & spirit guides.

Part of the reason she "knows" angels exist involves her near-miss car accident she recently had. It just HAD to have been angels who intervened for her and saved her from death or terrible injury.

Working in a hospital--this premise bothered me as sometimes you get to see the following scenario arriving at the ER....

"Irresponsible drunk with 5 prior DUIs runs head-on into mini-van-----killing dad and 2 children----and mom & the other child survive---but are horribly injured."

The drunk of course---only had minor injuries.

Obviously--the drunks angel was on duty but whoever was in charge of watching over mom & the kids---must've been on a coffee break....


Anyway--it stuck in my mind so I went to "Dr" Duffys website to see what she was about.

Apparantly the title "Dr." comes from her "doctorate" she recieved at the "Institute of Transformational Studies" in C.O.R.E studies.

As far as I could tell "C.O.R.E" is just the usual Deepak Chopra-touchy feely good about yourself crap that's typical of new age healers...


It struck me how easy it is in the US to legally obtain the title "Dr". and actually pass yourself off as someone who's qualified to treat real medical conditions......

"Missleading is an understatement"



I'm curious as to what's allowed in other countries-----Denmark--Australia----UK-------

Any reasonable standards exist to call oneself "Dr" or do you just need some worthless piece of paper from a diploma mill to qualify?

[Morchella]

The fact that chiropractors are called doctors severely cheapens the word in my book. Perhaps "physician" is a better term for a "real" doctor.
To become a real doctor you have to compete with the best to get into a good school and then suffer through years of internship with little pay.
To become a Chiropractor or other quack doctor, all you need is a passing grade ("D") and enough money and most of those bogus schools will take you.

[Eos of the Eons]

Yes, Anyone with a PhD can call themselves "Dr.". The kind of doctor we think of is an "M.D." or medical doctor, but we don't keep in mind that DCs (chiros) and PhDs also go by "Doctor".

It seems you can get a PhD in darn near anything.
Science (including biology, geology, astronomy)
Music
History
English
etc. etc.

http://www.lums.lancs.ac.uk/Research...ypes/DeptPhDs/
http://www.asha.org/about/publicatio...1/011120_1.htm

Quote:

Apparantly the title "Dr." comes from her "doctorate" she recieved at the "Institute of Transformational Studies" in C.O.R.E studies.

Doctorate? I have to look that one up. How does it compare to a PhD?

http://www.isvr.soton.ac.uk/edsvs/

Quote:

For doctoral training projects students should complete part 6a in the application form by specifying the title of the selected doctoral training project as listed below and when they propose their own project by specifying the title and abstract of the project they would like to work one. Part 6b should not be completed.

http://www.isvr.soton.ac.uk/edsvs/doc_projects.htm
Eh?

[crimresearch]

"...Doctorate? I have to look that one up. How does it compare to a PhD?"

What matters is if the 'D' in M.D, Psy.D, Ph.D, etc. is from a program/institution certified by a recognized accrediting agency to award doctoral degrees.
The accrediting agencies are recognized by the US Department of Education, and the Council on Higher Education Accreditation.

Without that accreditation, people can still stick 'Doctor' in front of their name, but they are not generally considered to have been awarded a recognized doctorate.

What are the accreditation agencies for higher education in Canada?

[Rolfe]

In the UK, very few medical doctors have a doctorate degree of any kind. The basic medical degree is a bachelor one, usually MBChB (bachelor of medicine, bachelor of surgery). The title "doctor" is a purely courtesy one, and has no legal standing. Recently, I believe dentists (also a basic bachelor degree, BDS) have voted to award themselves the same courtesy, though there is no tradition of that title being used by dentists in the UK - historically, I believe because all dentists are by definition surgeons.

The paradox is that when a doctor becomes qualified as a surgeon, he or she drops the "Dr." and reverts to "Mr." (or "Miss"). This is seen as a big promotion! The historical reason is that early barber-surgeons were held in contempt by the medical colleges, and they refused to allow any butcher doing surgery to retain the title "Doctor", and gradually dropping the title on gaining surgical qualifications became an honour. (However, I believe that surgeons who have actual academic doctorates such as PhDs do in fact use the title "Dr.")

Vets (again, bachelor degrees, each college calls it something different though, mine is BVMS, Badly Shaved Monkey's is VetMB) have never arrogated the "Dr." title, again to some extent because most vets in general practice are practising surgeons - but to some extent because it was never an issue. However, with foreign vets coming into the UK with "doctorates" as their first degrees (many European colleges give out a doctorate of some sort to virtually all graduates, either it's the basic degree or you only have to do a short dissertation to get it), there has been a little bit of muttering about the situation recently. Obviously the foreign graduates don't want to give up their title, but the UK vets feel it's unfair that these immigrants should have what is seen as a higher academic title in this context in this country.

As I said, most of that is purely about a courtesy title.

Officially, the title "Dr." goes with an actual academic doctorate, which can be in any subject at all. This is why it's actually Dr. Rolfe and Dr. Badly Shaved Monkey, we went the extra mile (or fifty!). Usually these degrees are hard to get in the UK, and signify quite a high academic standard. Non-medical academics with doctorates often don't use the title in situations where it would be potentially confusing. But it's expected that it will be used in any academic environment, including school teaching.

Funny story. When I was studying pure chemistry at Glasgow University, I lost the key to my locker one day. I went to the janitor to ask him if he could break the padlock and let me get at my stuff. His reply was, "you'll need to bring me a note from your doctor". For about ten seconds I stared at him, wondering why on earth I needed a medical certificate for him to burgle my locker, before I realised he meant I needed written confirmation from my chemistry lecturer that the locker in question was really mine. His usage was entirely the correct one. The title is properly an academic one, and its association with medicine a secondary matter.

Which of course leads to problems when conscience-free quacks get hold of mail-order doctorate degrees from dodgy colleges, and use the resulting title to pass themselves off as medically qualified. We need look no further than "Dr." Gillian McKeith as a prime example of such a fraud.

Rolfe.

[ingoa]

In Germany the title "Dr." is strongly protected. Calling yourself "Dr." (without the proper examination) will get you a heavy fine. Even jail time could be possible. The same is true for the title "Professor".

If you get a Dr. degree from a foreign university you'll have to apply at the ministery to get it acknowledged. After it is acknowledged you might carry the title. It is a tough procedure and results in disappointment for "Doctors" of fringe universities.

Dr. rer. nat. Ingoa

[drkitten]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Yes, Anyone with a PhD can call themselves "Dr.". The kind of doctor we think of is an "M.D." or medical doctor, but we don't keep in mind that DCs (chiros) and PhDs also go by "Doctor".

It seems you can get a PhD in darn near anything.
Science (including biology, geology, astronomy)
Music
History
English
etc. etc.


Doctorate? I have to look that one up. How does it compare to a PhD?

"Doctorate" is a general term for any higher degree that includes the term "doctor" or more generally any degree "higher" than a master's. This includes not only the mighty Ph.D., but also degress such as M.D. (medicine), J.D. (Juris Doctor -- law), D. Div. (divinity), Ed. D. (education), D.V.M. (veterinary medicine), D. Mus. (music), Litt. D. (literature), Sc. D. (science), and so forth. By convention it is restricted to "academic" degrees (as opposed to "trade" degrees), so it's a little odd, although not formally incorrect, to call an M.D. or a J.D. a "doctorate," unless the person involved is on the faculty of some university or something.

And, yes, there is a difference between a D. Mus. and a Ph.D. in music. "To sheep other sheep appear different. Or to shepherds."

In direct answer to your question, the United States fairs rather poorly by world standards in the quality of degrees that can be awarded. In the United Kingdom, for example, H.M. Goverment is rather strict, at a national level, about who can offer degrees. In the United States, regulation of colleges and universities happens at the state level, and there's little to prevent someone from opening an unlicenced, unaccredited "university" and offering degrees through the mail. Type "diploma mill" into your favorite web browser and you'll see what's going on.

On the other hand, some other countries are even worse. St. Kitts, for example, is (in the words of the Center for International Higher Education) "notorious for its willingness to accredit anything with a pulse. This is the country that “accredited” a Texas man as Eastern Caribbean University, offering degrees based on commercial TV shows." Malawi is another often-cited offender.

But yes. If you want to call yourself Doctor at the price of burning in Hell for all Eternity (and I will be happy to help find the coal), I think you can call yourself "doctor" for about $300 (US) if you hunt around. And you can buy a fake doctorate to hang on your wall for much less. After all, who will be checking?

[drkitten]

Quote:

Originally posted by ingoa
In Germany the title "Dr." is strongly protected. Calling yourself "Dr." (without the proper examination) will get you a heavy fine. Even jail time could be possible. The same is true for the title "Professor".

If you get a Dr. degree from a foreign university you'll have to apply at the ministery to get it acknowledged. After it is acknowledged you might carry the title. It is a tough procedure and results in disappointment for "Doctors" of fringe universities.

Interesting. On what basis does the ministry make that decision? (I applied for a job in Germany some years ago -- didn't get it, but I still consider the question to not be entirely moot.)

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by ingoa
In Germany the title "Dr." is strongly protected. Calling yourself "Dr." (without the proper examination) will get you a heavy fine. Even jail time could be possible. The same is true for the title "Professor".

If you get a Dr. degree from a foreign university you'll have to apply at the ministery to get it acknowledged. After it is acknowledged you might carry the title. It is a tough procedure and results in disappointment for "Doctors" of fringe universities.

Dr. rer. nat. Ingoa

That's interesting! So presumably "Dr." Gillian McKeith wouldn't be able to carry on her little scam in Germany?

Oh, and New DrKitten, having a pulse doesn't always seem to be mandatory. Nor does being human. Ben Goldacre applied for one of McKeith's qualifications in the name of his deceased cat, and got it.

It's true that in the UK the government is strict about who is allowed to award qualifications. However, there's no bar to getting anythong you like from the USA or anywhere, and then using the title. Like the McKeith scumbag. We call these people "BTA". (Been To America.) I think Germany might have the right idea.

By the way, what's Dr. rer. nat.?

Rolfe.

[ingoa]

rer. nat. means rerum naturalium.
(In german: Doktor der Naturwissenschaften, i.e. Doctor of natural sciences). This comprises mathematics, physics, chemistry and biology. I am a physicst.


There is a database that is used to evaluate the foreign degree:
Anabin Database
Unfortunately it is in German, so probably not very helpful for you.

If you don't find your university labeled as an "H+", one doesn't have to apply for acceptance of the foreign title. No chance that one would get it. The not public part even contains scans of the degrees. So photoshopping a PhD is not so simple.

If it ever comes out that one has faked a title (MS, PhD or Prof.) or used a foreign title without official acceptance, one is toast. Job gone, money gone, maybe even freedom gone. This happened a few times in the early eighties (if I remember correctly), when the Americans started to promote their mail order degrees. This stopped in very short time. Money for Nothing to cite one of my favourite bands.

Some interesting bit: in Germany your title is considered part of your name. So it is even written in my passport. But in practice I never use the title, because in my professional environment almost everybody has one. The only ones who do insist on their titles are medical doctors and engineers.

You think that's odd? Go to Austria! Much more interesting. They address everybody with a title. Mostly old fashioned ones, like Hofrat (Councellor of the court). So if you have a real title, you always get "upgraded". So a PhD becomes a professor... But this funny custom gets more and more out of fashion.

[drkitten]

Quote:

Originally posted by ingoa

If you don't find your university labeled as an "H+", one doesn't have to apply for acceptance of the foreign title. No chance that one would get it.

I'm sorry, I might not have understood you properly. I just checked my old university, and (since I've got a real degree from a real school), it's listed and as category H+.

Does this mean that my degree would automatically be recognized by the ministry? If not, what other information would they want to
see before I was allowed to call myself Dr. kitten?

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by ingoa
There is a database that is used to evaluate the foreign degree:
Anabin Database
Unfortunately it is in German, so probably not very helpful for you.

If you don't find your university labeled as an "H+", one doesn't have to apply for acceptance of the foreign title. No chance that one would get it. The not public part even contains scans of the degrees. So photoshopping a PhD is not so simple.

I did understand you I think, and my university also comes out with an H+. I take it you mean that it would therefore be worthwhile my applying, because there was a good chance I would receive acceptance?

I have to say I thoroughly admire this system. I wasn't even aware of it before you posted here about it. It would stop so many downright frauds who prance around here with their BTA bits of paper. Unfortunately some of them are politicians, so it might not be so simple to get something like this introduced.

(Ah, a physicist. Or "natural philosophy" as they called it at my alma mater. Very useful person to have around!)

Rolfe.

[ingoa]

Quote:

Originally posted by new drkitten
I'm sorry, I might not have understood you properly. I just checked my old university, and (since I've got a real degree from a real school), it's listed and as category H+.

Does this mean that my degree would automatically be recognized by the ministry? If not, what other information would they want to
see before I was allowed to call myself Dr. kitten?

It should normally not be a problem at all. As far as I know you would apply at the ministry to have your degree recognized. You would to put in a copy of your degree and a description of your thesis and a CV. As far as I know they would check with your old university whether the thesis was really made. The you would get the permission to use the German Doktor. This should be straight forward for universities in the list.

On the other hand most PhD never bother. It is not necessary for a job application. Employers (especially universities) normally don't require the procedure.
The majority that do it are MD's. They want to put their degree on the name tag or on the outside of their practice. I am working in a scientific environment and we simply don't bother. On the other hand, if you want to put a "Dr." on any official document you'll have to do the Nostrifikation (this is the technical term as I learnt during my investigation this afternoon). But generally people don't care very much. The things become different as soon as the medical profession is concerned. Put a unrecognized "Dr." on your name tag and the state attorney will be after you in no time. 10'000 € would be a typical fine. Which can become quite expensive, because if you use it again a similar fine would occur. In no time this drives fraudsters out of business.

Hope that helps Dr. Kitten and Dr. Rolfe

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by ingoa
Hope that helps Dr. Kitten and Dr. Rolfe

Well, I'm not actually planning to move to Germany, but that was a most interesting explanation. Any moves to roll that system out EU-wide would have my full support.

Rolfe.

[Chris Haynes]

When I first started working as an engineer with a local aerospace company the group I was put into was heavily populated with PhD's. Some of these guys had been professors of engineering (oh, and one of my professors worked part time down the hallway, the previous years he did pass around the resumes of soon to graduate students to supervisors).

None of these guys would call themselves "Dr" outside of the occasional document they would sign ... EXCEPT during the good natured ribbing and bantering that went on. Usually to the effect of "Dr. Bob", "Dr. Joe"... and to the resident expert in soil behavior due tire contact/interaction... "Dirt Doctor".

It was a strange place.

[TeaBag420]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ralph
So I'm walking my dogs the other morning waiting for my favorite
blues program to come on----when I catch the tail-end this talk show that always precedes the blues program.


The speaker's someone named "DR Erika Duffy" and she's running off to a caller about angels & spirit guides.

.... horribly injured."



Anyway--it stuck in my mind so I went to "Dr" Duffys website to see what she was about.

Apparantly the title "Dr." comes from her "doctorate" she recieved at the "Institute of Transformational Studies" in C.O.R.E studies.

As far as I could tell "C.O.R.E" is just the usual Deepak Chopra-touchy feely good about yourself crap that's typical of new age healers...


It struck me how easy it is in the US to legally obtain the title "Dr". and actually pass yourself off as someone who's qualified to treat real medical conditions......


Any reasonable standards exist to call oneself "Dr" or do you just need some worthless piece of paper from a diploma mill to qualify?

What struck me was how easy it is to confuse "Dr." with "M.D."

Guess what-- G. Gordon Liddy is entitled to the title "Dr." due to his J.D. degree. Henry Kissinger is similarly entitled due to an honary degree presented when he gave a commencement speech. Bill Cosby is entitled to call himself "Dr." because he made a cartoon.

Dr. Joyce Brothers does not have a degree that entitles her to use the title, it's just a stage name. On the other hand, Dr. Laura Schlessinger has a PhD in physiology.

If you were having a heart attack, would you send for Dr. Billy Graham? Stop worrying about the motes in other people's eyes, you've got a big-ass plank in your own if you can't tell the difference between a "doctor doctor" and a "title doctor".

[TeaBag420]

Quote:

Originally posted by new drkitten
Interesting. On what basis does the ministry make that decision? (I applied for a job in Germany some years ago -- didn't get it, but I still consider the question to not be entirely moot.)

One sixteenth of non-doctor blood.

[Zep]

Oh dear... For Australia:

nur Hochschulzugangsinformationen vorhanden

[Zep]

For Australia, use and restrictions of the title "Dr" for PhD's medical doctors is very much the same as in the UK.

Also, it is considered very bad form to assume the title (in fact, any degree title) when it has not actually been "earned" through real study or conferred as an honorary recognition degree. "Purchased" or "degree mill" degrees, while not exactly illegal, when discovered make the bearer an instant pariah academically, socially and economically. It is considered a very quick way to suicide any burgeoning business ventures you might be trying to promote.

[wahrheit]

Quote:

Originally posted by ingoa
In Germany the title "Dr." is strongly protected. Calling yourself "Dr." (without the proper examination) will get you a heavy fine. Even jail time could be possible. The same is true for the title "Professor".

Happened just three days ago:

Gunther von Hagens has to pay 108,000 Euros because he signed some papers with "Professor Dr. med", but these degrees came from China, Kirghizia and the U.S.

[ingoa]

Quote:

Originally posted by wahrheit
Happened just three days ago:

Gunther von Hagens has to pay 108,000 Euros because he signed some papers with "Professor Dr. med", but these degrees came from China, Kirghizia and the U.S.

Is that the 'plastination' *) guy? I guess he can afford it. But still it is a decent amount of money. Serves him right.

*) For the curious: Body Worlds . It is actually very intersting.

[crimresearch]

Quote:

Originally posted by TeaBag420
What struck me was how easy it is to confuse "Dr." with "M.D."

Guess what-- G. Gordon Liddy is entitled to the title "Dr." due to his J.D. degree. Henry Kissinger is similarly entitled due to an honary degree presented when he gave a commencement speech. Bill Cosby is entitled to call himself "Dr." because he made a cartoon.

Dr. Joyce Brothers does not have a degree that entitles her to use the title, it's just a stage name. On the other hand, Dr. Laura Schlessinger has a PhD in physiology.

If you were having a heart attack, would you send for Dr. Billy Graham? Stop worrying about the motes in other people's eyes, you've got a big-ass plank in your own if you can't tell the difference between a "doctor doctor" and a "title doctor".

Guess what?

Bill Cosby took all the course work, wrote all the papers, completed, and defended a dissertation for his earned Ph.D

So did Joyce Brothers

Henry Kissinger did the same at Harvard.

As already noted in previous threads, Lawyers don't refer to themselves as 'Doctor', unless they have a Ph.D or one of the old fashioned LL.D degrees.


What kind of ignorant lumpen posts easily debunked lies like that, and promotes the backwards superstition that 8 to 10 years of college is just a 'title doctor'?

[Camillus]

I work with a number of PhD's in nursing but they would never call themselves doctor outside an academic setting because having to explain to some poor bewildered patient that you're not a doctor doctor but a nurse doctor is more than most can stand.

In fact the only nurse I know who calls herself doctor is Beverly Malone, the head of the Royal College of Nursing.

[pgwenthold]

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Bill Cosby took all the course work, wrote all the papers, completed, and defended a dissertation for his earned Ph.D

In fact, you can find Cosby's PhD dissertation on line at Dissertation Abstracts.

http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/fullcit/7706369

The abstract isn't available there, but you can find a 24 page PDF preview. Thesis was directed by Dr. Norma Jean Anderson at UMass-Amherst, 1976

In the acknowledgements, he thanks his wife, Camille, and his 5 kids (at least those are the ones he knows of)

Laura Schlessinger's PhD is available there, too.

"EFFECTS OF INSULIN ON 3-O-METHYLGLUCOSE TRANSPORT IN ISOLATED RAT ADIPOCYTES."

Columbia University, 1974

Kissinger: PEACE, LEGITIMACY, AND THE EQUILIBRIUM (A STUDY OF THE STATESMANSHIP OF CASTLEREAGH AND METERNICH)

Harvard, 1954


Oddly, I didn't find Kent Hovind's thesis there. Nor was there an Erika Duffy. Nor Gillian McKieth.

How about this one: William Albert Graham, Jr
Harvard, 1974

"DIVINE WORD AND PROPHETIC WORD: THE EARLY MUSLIM UNDERSTANDING OF REVELATION, WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO THE DIVINE SAYING, OR SO-CALLED 'HADITH QUDSI.' "

Is that Billy Graham? Looks like a PhD thesis to me.

Dissertation abstracts can be fun to peruse. Martin Luther King's thesis is there. As is Stephen J. Gould's. And Carl Sagan. Etc.

[Rolfe]

It's an anomalous situation. The people with the real right to use the title "Dr." are those with earned academic doctorates. In whatever subject. However, the adpotion of the title as a courtesy designation by medical practitioners has led to confusion. Most medical "doctors" in this country happily acknowledge the situation and will refer to academic "doctors" as "real doctors, I'm only a poor bloody medic" or something like that.

Within medicine, people with academic doctorates who are not medically qualified frequently refrain from using the title to which they are entitled, to avoid misunderstandings. Outwith the medical field there tends to be little real cause for confusion, apart from the jokes about the pretty actress who faints on stage, and the call "is there a doctor in the house?" being responded to by a doctor or anthropology and two doctors of music!

The real problem is the deliberate obfuscation of the situation by people with diploma-mill "doctorates", using them to give a false impresison of being medically qualified - something a genuine academic would never do. So to say, as one of the links above does, that people with PhDs should be banned from using their title, is completely preposterous. Go after the quacks, as quacks, and leave the genuine academics alone. We've just been shown how the German system works in that way.

"Who shall decide, when doctors disagree?" - nothing to do with medical differences of opinion, but an observation that if those at the top of the academic heap can't decide an issue, who then shall be qualified?

Rolfe.

[TeaBag420]

Quote:

Originally posted by wahrheit
Happened just three days ago:

Gunther von Hagens has to pay 108,000 Euros because he signed some papers with "Professor Dr. med", but these degrees came from China, Kirghizia and the U.S.

If this is the guy, the issue seems to be with the title "Professor". How do two degrees come from three countries?

http://bodyworlds2.glsc.org/about/bio.asp

By the way, where is "Kirghizia"?

[TeaBag420]

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Guess what?

Bill Cosby took all the course work, wrote all the papers, completed, and defended a dissertation for his earned Ph.D

So did Joyce Brothers

Henry Kissinger did the same at Harvard.

As already noted in previous threads, Lawyers don't refer to themselves as 'Doctor', unless they have a Ph.D or one of the old fashioned LL.D degrees.


What kind of ignorant lumpen posts easily debunked lies like that, and promotes the backwards superstition that 8 to 10 years of college is just a 'title doctor'?

Interesting. Joyce Brothers would certainly be surprised to learn that she earned a doctorate, since says she did not.

I look forward to seeing Mr. Cosby's transcript to see what coursework he took in preparation for his dissertation on the Fat Albert cartoon show.

As for pgwenthold's "How about this one: William Albert Graham, Jr
Harvard, 1974

"DIVINE WORD AND PROPHETIC WORD: THE EARLY MUSLIM UNDERSTANDING OF REVELATION, WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO THE DIVINE SAYING, OR SO-CALLED 'HADITH QUDSI.' "

Is that Billy Graham? Looks like a PhD thesis to me."

No, that's not the Billy Graham who fills arenas and brings people to Jesus. I never said he didn't have a doctorate, just that he wasn't an M.D.

Yeah, turns out I was wrong about Kissinger. He liked the whipped cream, though.

"Lumpen"? What are we studying this semester? Certainly not vocabulary.

[pgwenthold]

Quote:

Originally posted by TeaBag420
I look forward to seeing Mr. Cosby's transcript to see what coursework he took in preparation for his dissertation on the Fat Albert cartoon show.

Since transcripts can only be released by the student, you won't be seeing his transcript.

Besides, it doesn't matter. A PhD degree is not about coursework. It's about creating new knowledge.

The faculty at UMass have determined that Cosby did this sufficiently, as described in his thesis (which is publically available).

As did Kissinger. As did Schlessinger.

I'm still not sure your point about Billy Graham. Is "William Albert Graham, Jr" Billy Graham? If so, then it applies to him, as well.

[crimresearch]

Quote:

Originally posted by TeaBag420
Interesting. Joyce Brothers would certainly be surprised to learn that she earned a doctorate, since says she did not.

I look forward to seeing Mr. Cosby's transcript to see what coursework he took in preparation for his dissertation on the Fat Albert cartoon show.

As for pgwenthold's "How about this one: William Albert Graham, Jr
Harvard, 1974

"DIVINE WORD AND PROPHETIC WORD: THE EARLY MUSLIM UNDERSTANDING OF REVELATION, WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO THE DIVINE SAYING, OR SO-CALLED 'HADITH QUDSI.' "

Is that Billy Graham? Looks like a PhD thesis to me."

No, that's not the Billy Graham who fills arenas and brings people to Jesus. I never said he didn't have a doctorate, just that he wasn't an M.D.

Yeah, turns out I was wrong about Kissinger. He liked the whipped cream, though.

"Lumpen"? What are we studying this semester? Certainly not vocabulary.

Lumpen. n. - - - 2> boorish and stupid.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/lumpen?view=uk


Dr. Brothers is a graduate of Cornell University and received her Ph.D. from Columbia University....
.....For six years she was a faculty member of Hunter College and Columbia University in New York and now is a frequent guest lecturer at universities across the country.
http://www.speaking.com/speakers/joycebrothers.html


...During Cosby's career as an entertainer, he was also able to continue with his education. He earned his B.A. from Temple University, and an M.A. (1972) and PhD (1977) in education from the University of Massachusetts.
http://afroamhistory.about.com/libra...cosby_bill.htm


Kissinger.... received the B.A. Degree Summa Cum Laude from Harvard College in 1950 and M.A. and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard University in 1952 and 1954 respectively.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/wiki.phtm...&printable=yes



And since Teabag is the one putting forth the extraordinary assertion that these people do NOT have their doctorates, the burden is completely upon Teabag to prove it.

Don't hold your breath.

[pgwenthold]

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Dr. Brothers is a graduate of Cornell University and received her Ph.D. from Columbia University....
.....For six years she was a faculty member of Hunter College and Columbia University in New York and now is a frequent guest lecturer at universities across the country.
http://www.speaking.com/speakers/joycebrothers.html

I was not able to find a PhD thesis for Joyce Brothers. She may have gotten her PhD under a different name.

Most legitimate PhD thesis (including those from Columbia) will be deposited with Dissertation Abstracts.

A lot of people are "guest lecturers" at universities across the country. Tells you nothing about their academic record. James Randi is a guest lecturer all the time, but doesn't have a PhD.

[crimresearch]

She is listed as faculty, not as adjunct, *and* as guest lecturer, which can mean multiple things...hard to tell.

Given that Dr. Brothers was married to a gentleman named Brothers, it is a pretty good guess that she might have used her maiden name.

[Jeff Corey]

Joyce Diane Bauer.

[pgwenthold]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Joyce Diane Bauer.

No PhD thesis under that name, either.

[HopkinsMedStudent]

Great conversation going on here...

as has already been mentioned, in the USA there is almost no regulation of titles. The Dept of Education recognizes the accrediting agencies for different educational programs, but the threshold for getting DOE recognition is based only on popularity, and has nothing to do with legitimacy.

For example, if I could somehow create a network of "astrology" schools offering a DA (doctor of astrology) degree, then getting DOE recognition depends SOLELY on how many schools there are and how many students are taking the courses. So the DOE wouldnt give me recognition for setting up 5 schools, but if I was able to bump that up to say 15 or 20 schools nationwide, then the DOE would recognize that as "sufficient critical mass" to officially recognize astrology as a terminal degree granting program.

In summary, DOE recognition depends SOLELY on popularity, they dont judge whether or not a program is legit, the only thing they care about is how many people are involved.

[HopkinsMedStudent]

This discussion is also similar to the use of the white coat in hospitals signifying "doctor" status.

In decades past, the only people wearing white coats in the clinical area of the hospital were doctors. Scientists used them, but they werent seen on the wards, they were always working in their research labs and not that visible to the public.

Over time though, everybody and their brother decided that they wanted to wear the white coat too. In the US at least, now almost every hospital worker wears a white coat: RNs, NPs, LPNs, CRNAs, phlebotomists, respiratory tech, MRI tech, Xray tech, ultrasound tech, etc.

My school is quite silly in this regard. They force all medical students to wear a short white coat. Their official reasoning for this is that it makes us "recognizable." This strikes me as ludicrous, considering that nobody is "recognizable" because everybody wears the same stuff. The only way to tell what position a person has is to closely examine their name tag.

I'd rather just ditch the white coat (too starchy and stiff) and just wear a regular suit to the hospital.

[TeaBag420]

Quote:

Originally posted by HopkinsMedStudent
This discussion is also similar to the use of the white coat in hospitals signifying "doctor" status.

In decades past, the only people wearing white coats in the clinical area of the hospital were doctors. Scientists used them, but they werent seen on the wards, they were .....




I'd rather just ditch the white coat (too starchy and stiff) and just wear a regular suit to the hospital.

May I have the honor of being the first person to puke on your suit? Or would you rather reconsider the advisability of that idea?

[crimresearch]

Quote:

Originally posted by HopkinsMedStudent
Great conversation going on here...

as has already been mentioned, in the USA there is almost no regulation of titles. The Dept of Education recognizes the accrediting agencies for different educational programs, but the threshold for getting DOE recognition is based only on popularity, and has nothing to do with legitimacy.

For example, if I could somehow create a network of "astrology" schools offering a DA (doctor of astrology) degree, then getting DOE recognition depends SOLELY on how many schools there are and how many students are taking the courses. So the DOE wouldnt give me recognition for setting up 5 schools, but if I was able to bump that up to say 15 or 20 schools nationwide, then the DOE would recognize that as "sufficient critical mass" to officially recognize astrology as a terminal degree granting program.

In summary, DOE recognition depends SOLELY on popularity, they dont judge whether or not a program is legit, the only thing they care about is how many people are involved.

Not quite. You might be able to get DOE recognition that your proprietary school exists, but there is little to no chance for regional accreditation of the type say, Harvard or Johns Hopkins enjoys.

Last I looked, getting regional accreditation depends on percentage of faculty with doctoral degrees, ratio of student loan defaults, and a whole host of things that weed out the proprietary schools...

[Soapy Sam]

Frau Doktorin Rolfe- The bad news is that Tennents (aka Glasgow Caledonian) is also rated H+

Maybe there's a thing or two the Germans need to know?

[TeaBag420]

Quote:

Originally posted by crimresearch
Lumpen. n. - - - 2> boorish and stupid.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/lumpen?view=uk


Dr. Brothers is a graduate of Cornell University and received her Ph.D. from Columbia University....
...........htm[/url]


.....



And since Teabag is the one putting forth the extraordinary assertion that these people do NOT have their doctorates, the burden is completely upon Teabag to prove it.

Don't hold your breath.

Ahh, insist that your opponent prove a negative. Thanks for the debating tip.

[crimresearch]

Quote:

Originally posted by TeaBag420
Ahh, insist that your opponent prove a negative. Thanks for the debating tip.

When you make an assertion that those people do not have doctorates, and the record clearly shows that they do, guess what?

You are the one putting yourself in that position.

But, nothing new about that with Teabag's trollage

Oh, and didn't you also claim that Dr. Bothers had no doctorate, and that 'Doctor' was just her stage name?

Fine, go ahead and provide evidence for that positive assertion....

We won't be holding our breath for that either.



By the way, other than slagging famous people with an education, what exactly have *you* ever done?