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Old 30th June 2005, 09:06 AM   #1
HarryKeogh
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Scientology Kills...but does it?

Has a Scientology staff member ever been convicted of killing a member or critic?

Has a Scientology staff member ever been convicted of kidnapping a member or critic?

Have any Scientologists ever been arrested for killing people's cats or putting snakes in people's mailboxes (according to bulletin boards this seems to happen all the time!)?

I have my own personal experiences (which I won't go into detail as we all know anecdotal evidence is worth spit) that reveal how tenacious the organization can be in getting one to purchase courses or to join staff but what about the more extreme accusations levelled against Scientology. Are they baseless?

Everyone cites the case of Lisa McPherson but was anyone ever prosecuted? Some well respected pathologists have said it was accidental. Of course they were paid by CoS but I don't think that should mean we dismiss their professional opinions outright. link
Then there's this
page but where are all the arrests? Are the police that incompetent? Or are the Scientologists that brilliant at covering up their crimes? And how involved were all those people in Scientology? Since no one knows how many Scientologist there are(CoS will tell you millions, critics will tell you tens or hundreds of thousands) how can we know if these deaths happen at a greater rate than followers of other religions or the general population.

Sure, I think it's an organization that's designed to get as much money from people as possible while delivering a product that's worthless. And they tenaciously harass their critics but I just have my skeptical hat on when it comes to some of the more outrageous claims.

Where are all the convictions?
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Old 30th June 2005, 09:30 AM   #2
crimresearch
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I would ask how many rich celebrities have been convicted of murder as well.

Does that mean that they are by nature not violent, or just that millions upon millions of dollars spent on lawyers can make almost anything go away?
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Old 30th June 2005, 09:51 AM   #3
HarryKeogh
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Quote:
Originally posted by crimresearch
I would ask how many rich celebrities have been convicted of murder as well.

Does that mean that they are by nature not violent, or just that millions upon millions of dollars spent on lawyers can make almost anything go away?
point taken.

but have any murder/kidnapping charges agains CoS or its members ever even been filed or put to a criminal trial?

if not is CoS is buying off governments and DAs as well?

Plausible, just don't know how likely. I think we risk venturing into conspiracy theory territory.
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Old 30th June 2005, 10:08 AM   #4
crimresearch
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I agree that the claims against Scientology read like a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

The snake in the mailbox thing was alleged against their Narcanon offshoot in the 60s wasn't it?

And there was a death in Florida that resulted in criminal charges which fell apart after years of legal maneuvering that included an ME and a judge suddenly reversing their findings.

Apparently the IRS and the German authorities have had the most success in proving Scientology to be committing white collar crimes.

But the violent crimes always seem to be claimed, and yet like MJ, Scientologists don't get convicted.
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Old 30th June 2005, 10:17 AM   #5
HarryKeogh
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Quote:
Originally posted by crimresearch
The snake in the mailbox thing was alleged against their Narcanon offshoot in the 60s wasn't it?
I'm afraid I don't know. I just tried Googling to find out and just got links to forums and blogs where people discuss it but no news sources.

Hey, and don't you start on Narconon. You'll make it seem like sitting in a sauna for 8 hours and drinking large doses of calcium and magnesium isn't a great way to rid drug addiction.
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Old 30th June 2005, 11:48 AM   #6
jmercer
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Ah, Scientology... one of our more brilliant concepts.

jmercer, card carrying member of the Illuminati
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Old 30th June 2005, 12:04 PM   #7
crimresearch
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I call BS...the Illuminati copped everything they have from us Alumbradissimistss...not an original thought in the bunch.


Secret teachings? That was *us*!

Hidden tunnels? We had freakin' roads underground that were so well hidden that even we can't find them!

Evil web of financial manipulations? We had thought control over livestock, way back when 20 cows were worth more than most villages!

Wannabees...
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Old 30th June 2005, 01:10 PM   #8
Anders
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For me, knowing that scientology ruins people; possibly brainwashes them; making them to believe in a religion that makes Christianity seem sane; using lawyers to pursue people that oppose them; is enough to be opposed to those crazy people.

Do scienos kill people on a regular basis? Nah, wouldn’t think so.
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Old 30th June 2005, 01:57 PM   #9
jmercer
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Quote:
Originally posted by crimresearch
I call BS...the Illuminati copped everything they have from us Alumbradissimistss...not an original thought in the bunch.


Secret teachings? That was *us*!

Hidden tunnels? We had freakin' roads underground that were so well hidden that even we can't find them!

Evil web of financial manipulations? We had thought control over livestock, way back when 20 cows were worth more than most villages!

Wannabees...
Ah... yes... our plans are working (rubbing hands together)... even crimresearch believes he's a member of the secret rulers...
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Old 30th June 2005, 02:44 PM   #10
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While it's not exactly murder, several prominient Scientologists were convicted of breaking into federal government buildings and stealing documents back in the '70s. Here's a transcript of the judgement fron one of their appeals.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/legal/appeal.htm

In regards to the OP: while many members have committed suicide, and the high church officials seem to be morally bankrupt, I don't know of any real, documented, convicted cases of murder
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Old 30th June 2005, 02:55 PM   #11
HarryKeogh
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frinkiak7
While it's not exactly murder, several prominient Scientologists were convicted of breaking into federal government buildings and stealing documents back in the '70s.
and one of those names is Mary Sue Hubbard, Lafayette Ron Hubbard's wife.
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Old 30th June 2005, 03:27 PM   #12
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Don't forget Operation PC Freakout. Faking bomb threats in order to frame a reporter who's not friendly to scientology may not exactly be 'violent', but getting an innocent person sent to prison may be approaching it.

You've just 'farmed out' the kidnapping to the State...
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Old 30th June 2005, 04:16 PM   #13
Dredred
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I don't think a scientology member has ever been convicted for scientology related murder or kidnapping.

You can see video footage of scientologists harassing protesters at this site: http://www.xenutv.com (i think the pickets page)

There used to be a website at scientologykills.org but i think it's been deleted after the webmaster got sued. I did a whois search and scientologykills.org (as well as scientologykills.info) is now registered by Church of Scientology Int'l, 6331 Hollywood Blvd, Los Angeles.
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Old 1st July 2005, 01:59 PM   #14
Frinkiak7
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Quote:
Originally posted by HarryKeogh
and one of those names is Mary Sue Hubbard, Lafayette Ron Hubbard's wife.
Indeed. She was in charge of the Guardian's Office at the time, and LRH didn't lift a finger to help her.
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Old 1st July 2005, 02:02 PM   #15
thaiboxerken
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The thing with conspiracy theories about Scientology are that they are easy to believe, since Scientology makes no secret of their efforts to silence critics using law and intimidation tactics.
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