ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 19th July 2005, 06:00 AM   #1
Ladewig
Hipster alien
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 19,886
Republican Rick Santorum: Boston's liberalism is one cause clergy sex abuse.

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, the third-ranking Republican in the Senate, refused yesterday to back off on his earlier statements connecting Boston's ''liberalism" with the Roman Catholic Church pedophile scandal, saying that the city's ''sexual license" and ''sexual freedom" nurtured an environment where sexual abuse would occur

''The basic liberal attitude in that area . . . has an impact on people's behavior," Santorum said in an interview yesterday at the Capitol.

''If you have a world view that I'm describing [about Boston] . . . that affirms alternative views of sexuality, that can lead to a lot of people taking it the wrong way," Santorum said.

Santorum, a leader among Christian conservatives, was responding to questions about remarks he made three years ago on a website called Catholic Online. In those comments, Santorum said, ''It is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political, and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm" of the clergy sexual abuse scandal.

The junior senator is chairman of the Senate Republican Conference and is considered a possible candidate for his party's presidential nomination in 2008, if he wins reelection to a third Senate term next year.

''I was just saying that there's an attitude that is very open to sexual freedom that is more predominant" in Boston, Santorum said yesterday. Reminded that the sexual abuse occurred across the country, Santorum said that ''at the time [in 2002], there was an indication that there was more of a problem there" in Boston.

-more-
So, any Republicans here want to defend the chairman of the Senate Republican Conference?
__________________
Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 06:16 AM   #2
Zep
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,985
And here was I thinking of wearing a flower in my hair in San Francisco, definitely the Gay Capitol of the USA. So what's the clergy's molestation rate there, someone?
Zep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 07:20 AM   #3
delphi_ote
Debunking Ninja
 
delphi_ote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,013
Pennsylvania is far enough to the right to elect a guy like this? That's the biggest suprise of all.
__________________
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
delphi_ote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 07:29 AM   #4
Cleon
King of the Pod People
Moderator
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,198
Quote:
Originally posted by delphi_ote
Pennsylvania is far enough to the right to elect a guy like this? That's the biggest suprise of all.
Not really...The state itself is pretty moderate. The other senator is Arlen Spector, for example. The previous governor was Tom Ridge, a pro-choice Republican. (Oddly enough, the governor before him was Bob Casey, a pro-life Democrat.)

Santorum decided to run for Senate in the 1994 election, which saw a number of Democrats ousted. Harris Wofford, Santorum's opponent, was one of them.
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 10:25 AM   #5
Hutch
A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers
 
Hutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B
Posts: 6,775
Hmmmmm....A question for the class, if my 2008 Pres/VP choices are:

Rick Santourum/Roy Moore or Hillary Clinton/Howard Dean

How fast can Hutch immigrate to New Zealand?
__________________
The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history. R.A. Heinlein
Hutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 10:36 AM   #6
Kerberos
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,608
Re: Republican Rick Santorum: Boston's liberalism is one cause clergy sex abuse.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ladewig
So, any Republicans here want to defend the chairman of the Senate Republican Conference?
I like him, he displays nothing of that timid selfapologetic atitude that's so common these days. If conservative clergy abuses children, it's clearly the faul of them touchy-feely Liberals. That's the spirit!
__________________
Bible code: A method for obtaining hidden messages from texts that contains none, for the purpose of predicting events after they happen.

"When the facts are on you side, but the law is against you, stress the facts. When the law is on your side, but the facts are against you stress the law. When both the facts and the law is against you, pound the table and yell like hell". Laywer maxim
Kerberos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 12:05 PM   #7
LostAngeles
Anti-WM Jihadist
 
LostAngeles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,159
*cough*MetCo*cough*ForcedBusing*cough*CharlesStuar t*cough*bluelaws*cough*

*hack* I don't know if that's the end of this horrible cough I seem to have. *cough* Sure there might be more.
__________________
"There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik
LostAngeles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 02:41 PM   #8
Ladewig
Hipster alien
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 19,886
Quote:
Originally posted by LostAngeles
*cough*MetCo*cough*ForcedBusing*cough*CharlesStuar t*cough*bluelaws*cough*

*hack* I don't know if that's the end of this horrible cough I seem to have. *cough* Sure there might be more.

I'm lost. What do those people and issues have to do with the claim that Boston's liberalism was a factor in Catholic priests molesting children?
__________________
Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 02:50 PM   #9
Skeptic
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,361
It's not Boston's liberalism, it is the Church's "liberalism" and willingness to take the pedophiles at their world that they changed, honest, and shuffel them to a different diocese every time that was the problem.

I put "liberalism" in quotes since while the Church leaders involved in the cover-up often used liberal-sounding "Sexual revoluion" mantra (of the "it's a choice", "he is reformed", etc. sort), they were more an excuse for not spilling the beans publically than and deep-seated commitment to those principles.
Skeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 02:59 PM   #10
Manny
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,295
Indeed. Santorum is a Catholic. One wonders what he, personally, did when the massive billion-dollar conspiracy to cover up Priest abuse came to light. Probably nothing locally since, to be fair, his Archdiocese was one of the good ones which was way out front on this issue. But did he call the Pope and tell him that His Holiness' intervention is necessary to fix the Church in the US? Did he side with the lay groups seeking accountability? Did he threaten to leave the Church?

For whatever it's worth, I don't actually know the answers to any of those questions -- it's entirely possible that he responded appropriately for his position. But I'm thinking those are fair questions to pose to someone trying to shine a light on any alleged libertinism in Boston (something which is, in itself, kind of laughable). Betcha no Massachusetts politician does, though -- too much risk of those same questions being posed up there.
Manny is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 03:29 PM   #11
LostAngeles
Anti-WM Jihadist
 
LostAngeles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,159
Quote:
Originally posted by Ladewig
I'm lost. What do those people and issues have to do with the claim that Boston's liberalism was a factor in Catholic priests molesting children?
Just that Boston isn't really that liberal, is all. Cambridge, yes. Boston, not so much.
__________________
"There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik
LostAngeles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 03:39 PM   #12
Fengirl
Graduate Poster
 
Fengirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
I like him, he displays nothing of that timid selfapologetic atitude that's so common these days. If conservative clergy abuses children, it's clearly the faul of them touchy-feely Liberals. That's the spirit!
Indeed! Let's not ask any difficult questions, like:

"Is there a possibility that the priesthood actually ATTRACTS paedophiles (perhaps because a life of celibacy may not seem like such a sacrifice to someone whose sexual urges are warped in the first place?)"

Or:

"Is recruiting young men in their sexual prime into the priesthood, then imposing vows of celibacy on them, forcing them to deny and repress one of the most basic and natural of all human instincts such a great idea? (Could abnormal sexual repression possibly contribute to the development of abnormal sexual urges…?)"

Naaaah!

MUCH easier to blame it all onto those pesky liberals, with their “anything goes” attitude to sexuality!
Fengirl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 03:42 PM   #13
corplinx
JREF Kid
 
corplinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,957
Quote:
So, any Republicans here want to defend the chairman of the Senate Republican Conference?
I won't defend him unless the accuser knows the real charge. The statements referenced are from a few years back. I haven't read the original publication to put the remarks in context. Santorum himself says he was talking about the liberal attitudes inside the catholic church.

Anyone got a link to the original piece?
__________________
Nothing Reportable Here
corplinx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 03:43 PM   #14
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 17,778
Quote:
Originally posted by Zep
And here was I thinking of wearing a flower in my hair in San Francisco, definitely the Gay Capitol of the USA. So what's the clergy's molestation rate there, someone?
Evidence that it's repression, not sexuality, that's the problem. I'm wondering, what proportion of Boston priests are actually from Boston? Brought up in Boston's orgiastic, libertine atmosphere ... sorry, I'm cracking up here. On this side of the pond Boston is way down the list of Party Cities of the World. Did somebody say "bluestocking", or did the hacking cough mislead me?
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 03:44 PM   #15
joobie
i don't care
 
joobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,517
Quote:
Originally posted by corplinx
Anyone got a link to the original piece?
http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=30

Quote:
It is startling that those in the media and academia appear most disturbed by this aberrant behavior, since they have zealously promoted moral relativism by sanctioning "private" moral matters such as alternative lifestyles. Priests, like all of us, are affected by culture. When the culture is sick, every element in it becomes infected. While it is no excuse for this scandal, it is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm.
joobie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 03:59 PM   #16
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 17,778
Quote:
Originally posted by Fengirl
Indeed! Let's not ask any difficult questions, like:

"Is there a possibility that the priesthood actually ATTRACTS paedophiles (perhaps because a life of celibacy may not seem like such a sacrifice to someone whose sexual urges are warped in the first place?)"
Oh, let's. Let's a lot. The priest and altar-boy stories aren't just the fruit of anti-Catholicism, they're folk-lore, and there's a lot of truth in folk-lore. (Ditto Scout-Leaders and public-school teachers.) Paedophilia is about power and fear of adults - the abused altar-boy becomes the abusing priest. The Catholic Church prefers its priests, if they must have sex, to have it with boys because at least they're not women, with the spiritual pollution and embarrassing pregnancies that would imply. Remember what happened to that Irish bishop led astray by fertile hussies? Very embarrassing for the Church.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 04:17 PM   #17
Ladewig
Hipster alien
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 19,886
Quote:
Originally posted by corplinx
Anyone got a link to the original piece?
link

Sorry about not including it in the original post.

Quote:
Originally posted by corplinx
[b]I won't defend him unless the accuser knows the real charge. The statements referenced are from a few years back. I haven't read the original publication to put the remarks in context. Santorum himself says he was talking about the liberal attitudes inside the catholic church.
I'm not sure how you can read these quotes and conclude he was referring to the liberal attitudes inside the church.

''The basic liberal attitude in that area . . . has an impact on people's behavior,"

''If you have a world view that I'm describing [about Boston] . . . that affirms alternative views of sexuality, that can lead to a lot of people taking it the wrong way," Santorum said.

Santorum said, ''It is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political, and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm" of the clergy sexual abuse scandal.
__________________
Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 04:51 PM   #18
Tmy
Philosopher
 
Tmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,489
Quote:
Originally posted by LostAngeles
Just that Boston isn't really that liberal, is all. Cambridge, yes. Boston, not so much.
Massachusetts aint as liberal as people think. We've had Republican govenors for the last 12-15 years!

Plus arent the clergy really conservative? They are professional bible thumpers. They fall on the far right of the spectrum.
__________________
"Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek
Tmy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 04:52 PM   #19
Tmy
Philosopher
 
Tmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,489
By the way. I went to catholic school and have a couple of creepy preists stories. I think everyone does.
__________________
"Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek
Tmy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 04:58 PM   #20
LostAngeles
Anti-WM Jihadist
 
LostAngeles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,159
Quote:
Originally posted by Tmy
Massachusetts aint as liberal as people think. We've had Republican govenors for the last 12-15 years!

Plus arent the clergy really conservative? They are professional bible thumpers. They fall on the far right of the spectrum.
That means diddly. Did Finneran retire yet? You know, the actual governor? Please, those people in the corner office were just there to look good and stick their name on things.
__________________
"There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik
LostAngeles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th July 2005, 05:02 PM   #21
Tmy
Philosopher
 
Tmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,489
Quote:
Originally posted by LostAngeles
That means diddly. Did Finneran retire yet? You know, the actual governor? Please, those people in the corner office were just there to look good and stick their name on things.
Last I lookj Finneran was up on federal perjury charges.

Our latest Gov (Romney) will be running for prez in 08.

Methinks the people of Mass. like a repubican gov cause it acts as a natural check on the demo legistlator. That being said even our govs tend to me more middle than most republicans. Hell EVEN I WAS accused of beinga rebublican the other day!! ME!!
__________________
"Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek
Tmy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 02:25 AM   #22
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 8,748
Santorum is right

Liberals -- especially the smug, self-important uber-elitists from Taxaschussets -- live in a bubbled-world where people have to be non-judgemental at all times. When it comes to Priests having sex with boys they're like, "Hey, don't discriminate against someone's sexual orientation." But when it comes to putting up playground equipment in parks they're like, "Oh, that's not safe because there's a 1 in 1000000000 gazillion chance that little Ahmed will fall and hurted his head."
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 04:11 AM   #23
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 17,778
There's no playground equipment in Boston parks? That's really weird. Where do the off-duty priests hang out?
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 04:48 AM   #24
Chaos
TAM Chocolate Dispenser
 
Chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,724
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
It's not Boston's liberalism, it is the Church's "liberalism" and willingness to take the pedophiles at their world that they changed, honest, and shuffel them to a different diocese every time that was the problem.

I put "liberalism" in quotes since while the Church leaders involved in the cover-up often used liberal-sounding "Sexual revoluion" mantra (of the "it's a choice", "he is reformed", etc. sort), they were more an excuse for not spilling the beans publically than and deep-seated commitment to those principles.
Actually I think it´s more the Catholic church´s reactionary conservatism that´s at fault here - it´s deep-seated belief that the church must prevail at all costs and that it´s far more import not to have a scandal about the abuse than to stop the abuse itself.
__________________
Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark
Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good
Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki
Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled
You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep
Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra
You´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous
Chaos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 05:14 AM   #25
hgc
Penultimate Amazing
 
hgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,476
I am spitting mad. Bernie Law and his cronies ran a child-rape procurement ring by reassigning known pedophiles without warning the soon-to-be-victimized parishes. I can't for the life of me understand why they did it. But for this political animal (and I use the word in it worst sense), Santorum, to come along and take a poke at the usual bugaboos is a poke in the eye of the victims. Scum. Bag.
__________________
My philosophy has always been expectations are your seeds of success. You're not going to get any more out of life than you expect. - Leroy "Pop" Miller
hgc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 09:24 AM   #26
shecky
Master Poster
 
shecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,193
Santorum's explanation doesn't work when you consider other places that have been plagued with scandals.

Chaos is right. The scandal isn't that there are pedophile priests, but that Church practice was to cover up, pay off and deny such abberations at any cost. The drive to keep these cases out of public view, instead of treating them like the crimes they are, backfired when a critical mass was reached. Then all of a sudden, cases going back decades surface all at once, highlighting institutional practices such as the shuffling of pedophiles. It's bad enough to have a criminal priest. But to have a institution protecting such criminal activity is the widespread problem, not limited to Boston.
shecky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 12:55 PM   #27
hgc
Penultimate Amazing
 
hgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,476
Oh, and where does he get off associating pedophilia with "liberalism?" What a dick. How about I go around blaming serial killers on conservatism? Makes about as much sense.
__________________
My philosophy has always been expectations are your seeds of success. You're not going to get any more out of life than you expect. - Leroy "Pop" Miller
hgc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 01:27 PM   #28
LostAngeles
Anti-WM Jihadist
 
LostAngeles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,159
Quote:
Originally posted by shecky
Santorum's explanation doesn't work when you consider other places that have been plagued with scandals.

Chaos is right. The scandal isn't that there are pedophile priests, but that Church practice was to cover up, pay off and deny such abberations at any cost. The drive to keep these cases out of public view, instead of treating them like the crimes they are, backfired when a critical mass was reached. Then all of a sudden, cases going back decades surface all at once, highlighting institutional practices such as the shuffling of pedophiles. It's bad enough to have a criminal priest. But to have a institution protecting such criminal activity is the widespread problem, not limited to Boston.
Speaking of insitutions not limited to Boston but protecting criminal activity there: http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/...ON=99-2292.01A

That has exactly as much to do with liberalism as the sexual abuse by priests does. Wonder why Santorum didn't use that too.
__________________
"There is also a likelihood that the settlement will fall between two biomes, potentially hazardous if the player expects a peaceful oceanside meadow, without realizing the ocean is full of amphibious zombie whales." - Dwarf Fortress Wik
LostAngeles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2005, 01:47 PM   #29
Luke T.
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 14,759
Quote:
Originally posted by Zep
And here was I thinking of wearing a flower in my hair in San Francisco, definitely the Gay Capitol of the USA. So what's the clergy's molestation rate there, someone?
Quote:
Between 1950 and the present, 56 priests in ministry for the Archdiocese of San Francisco have been accused of sexual abuse involving a minor by 148 victims.
Quote:
The total of 51 priests accused of credible allegations of sexual abuse involving a minor from 1950 to the present represents 1.4 percent of the total number of priests in ministry for the Archdiocese of San Francisco during that 53 year period.
http://www.sfarchdiocese.org/johnjay.html





Quote:
From 1950 through 2003, a total of 2324 ordained archdiocesan priests were incardinated in the Archdiocese of Boston.
Quote:
In that time period, a total of 162 archdiocesan priests were alleged to have sexually abused a minor. The number 162 simply reflects the total number of priests against whom allegations have been received in this time period. It does not mean that a determination criminally, civilly, or canonically, has been made regarding the truth or non-truth of the allegation. The number of accused priests represents approximately 7% of the archdiocesan priests who served from 1950-2003.
http://www.bishop-accountability.org...s/bostonma.htm
Luke T. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:47 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.