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#1 |
Lackey
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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Sarah-I's allegations against Stephen Barratt of Quakwatch fame
Sarah-I posted this (from: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...tid=1871000941)
Quote:
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#2 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 279
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Yes, there is the transcript of the court cases where the cases were thrown out. This happened in a case against a chiropractor and there was also a homeopathy case that was thrown out.
They were very high profile cases too. |
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#3 |
Lackey
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#4 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 279
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These are not repeated allegations. The transcripts of the court cases are the evidence for this.
I managed to find these, so I am sure that you can too. |
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#5 |
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,290
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#6 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 940
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I understood that Dr Barrett was suing the perpetrator of these smears for libel?
See: The history and: Case detail |
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#7 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,933
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Quote:
By the way Sarah, a psychiatrist is in fact an MD. Any proof that anything Dr. Barrett has on quackwatch is false, or that he is not a respected medical doctor? No? Didn't think so. If you're referring to the Bolen affair, you're on shaky ground. See the links posted above. |
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#8 |
Lackey
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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Quote:
You have made several in my opinion at least scurrilous allegations against Stephen Barratt these are: 1) ...Stephen Barratt is not a respected MD. - please provide the evidence 2) ...he has been discredited recently. - please provide the evidence 3) ... He was used as an expert witness in a court case not long ago and the case was thrown out, as his evidence was demonstrated to be totally unreliable. - please provide the evidence. |
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#9 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 35,758
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Quote:
If you found them once, surely you can find them again? Always assuming that you actually did find them, of course. |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#10 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,056
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Sarah, if nobody here can find the evidence you're alluding to, will you produce it? Or will you admit you unthinkingly repeated a libellous statement?
Rolfe. |
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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#11 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,248
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Since Sarah appears to be incapable, I've had a look around. Perhaps this is what she is alluding to.
Quote:
By the way, I am assuming that the transcript is genuine, which seems likely, but it may not be, given the source. edited to add: By the way, this court case was all about whether an advertiser needs to prove their claims or not. It says nothing about the efficacy of homeopathy, before anyone gets excited. |
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Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously. |
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#12 |
Copper Alloy Canid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,993
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Ah. They hold strong opinions, known as facts, therefore they can't be trusted.
I think I'll be buying bottled water for a while. I don't think our water supply is safe. |
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Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel |
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#13 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,248
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Quote:
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Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously. |
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#14 |
Lackey
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Quote:
I.e. 1) ...Stephen Barratt is not a respected MD. 2) ...he has been discredited recently. 3) ... He was used as an expert witness in a court case not long ago and the case was thrown out, as his evidence was demonstrated to be totally unreliable. |
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#15 |
Mostly harmless
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Quote:
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#16 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,171
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Quote:
![]() What a nerd I am. |
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--------------------------------------------- Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. --Superintendent Chalmers |
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#17 |
Lackey
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#18 |
Pith Artist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The '80s
Posts: 8,694
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How sad it is to see the depths that proponents of 'alternative' therapies will sink.
Their own therapies can't stand up by themselves in the face of scientific testing, so they have to resort to libellously attacking those who criticise their beloved therapies. And they can't even do any better than "These things just happened I read it someowhere and it was really famous and you'll have to find the evidence for yourslf". Sarah what would you say if someone wrote: "Sarah-I is a phony. She experiments on patients without their knowledge, has been discredited and disgraced as a craniosacral therapist and is widely considered a joke in all circles. She is a known liar with no respect for patients and only practices her 'therapies' to trick money out of gullible people and to play at being a real doctor, because she lacks the intelligence and work ethic required to become a real doctor. She is even so unprincipled, unethical and amoral that she attempts to libel real doctors who dare to tell people the truth about medicine in order to help people avoid frauds and false information. She is self-serving, arrogant and irresponsible and nobody should trust her with any aspect of their health, no matter how minor, as she doesn't have the first clue about treating any medical complaint whatsoever. The evidence for this is all well known. I have found it you can too." How might you respond to such a hypothetical comment? |
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With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell It is obvious to any scientist that the bumblebee can fly because experiment proves it. - Zetie 1996 |
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#19 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,776
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Quote:
These are people without pride or ethics. They are the ethical equivelent of hit and run drivers.. |
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Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson |
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#20 |
Pith Artist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The '80s
Posts: 8,694
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I'm just getting fed up with this type of thing at the moment.
People wonder why so many people are confused about what is true, what there is scientific evidence for, what sources to trust to get information... We have the likes of antigray on this thread spouting nonsense about reptoids and ancient technology. He has actually written a book about it which people will read and, if they don't check, possibly believe. He is linking to a buffoon called Jonathan Gray who is also writing idiotic books about ancient technology, nuclear wars before recorded history, flood myths etc. These people are just confusing people and spreding lies that harm people's understanding of the world (and making money out of it too). Then you have people like Sarah-I. Quackwatch has reams of evidence, input from many doctors and specialists, and, above all, attempts to tell people the truth about medical matters, a subject many are, obviously, very confused about. Sarah loves her little therapies, but because they don't hold up to any sort of scientific testing she feels the need to attack sites that tell people the truth. But as she can't actually argue with the evidence or the science of the site she must instead attack the people involved. By lies if necessary. And we know what damage lies can do. Quackwatch is a, literally, potentially life-saving resorce - an excellent website with full references. And it is set up solely to attempt to tell people the truth about fraudulent medical claims - an aim you would have thought that would be supported by anyone with a shred of human decency. But people like Sarah are so threatened by this site that they lash out spitefully at the messengers. This is worse than ignorance - it is a deliberate attempt to conceal the truth for personal gain. It has been said that Sarah loves to play at doctor. Perhaps that is why she feels the need to behave so despicably towards real doctors. I absolutely do not understand how people like Sarah have the gall to show their face in public, let alone actually talk to people about their health problems. I do not understand why some people appear to be born without a sense of shame, a sense of what is right and wrong, a sense of respect for truth, a sense of unearned self-importance. Perhaps Sarah's comments are actionable by Doctor Stephen Barrett. That would be interesting. It would be nice to see Sarah forced to back up her comments or retract them as unfounded lies. |
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With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell It is obvious to any scientist that the bumblebee can fly because experiment proves it. - Zetie 1996 |
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#21 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,056
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Was that part of the "King Bio" case? I think it was.
I've had homoeopaths throw that one in my face as proof that homoeopathy isn't fakery, but when I looked at the details provided by them, it was clear that it was merely a technical victory for King Bio. In effect, the NCAHF went after King Bio based solely on King Bio's own claims that their homoeopathic products are 100% pure water. This is apparently an attempt to corner the "strong drink is evil" segment of the market, by producing homoeopathic remedies using simply water as a solvent rather than the usual water/alcohol (generally vodka) mixture. So, here you have a company charging quite steep prices and making therapeutic claims for something which is admittedly nothing but ordinary water. NCAHF thought that this was enough to support a case that since it was self-evident that water didn't have the properties claimed, King Bio was a fraud. However, they reckoned without the judge they encountered, who refused to accept the general statement that water doesn't have the properties claimed, and threw the case out on the grounds that the plaintiffs had done no specific tests on the actual water being sold by King Bio. He also took the unusual step of declaring that on the one hand Dr. Barrett was not well-versed in FDA regulation, therefore he could not present himself as an expert on that matter, but on the other hand Dr. Barrett knew a great deal about homoeopathy, which made him biassed, and therefore not a suitable expert witness. It's clear to anyone looking at the situation that the judge was a homoeopathy sympathiser/user, and blinded himself to the arguments because he didn't want to give up his own cherished magic sugar pill habit. If knowing enough about a fraud to be able to give evidence that the practice is indeed fraudulent is sufficient to dismiss an expert as "biassed", then all fraudsters may sleep easily in their beds. If this counts as Dr. Barrett being "discredited", then I'm the proverbial banana. I also note the remark "he is a retired psychiatrist who no longer practises". Right, Sarah, the fact that he is retired means that he no longer practises. He's at least 70 years old. Were you implying something different? Look at the link Oleron posted. This guy is a highly respected doctor who in the latter part of his career and into his retirement has had a particular interest in investigating and exposing a number of high-profile health frauds. Including homoeopathy. Naturally the people whose lucrative businesses might be damaged if the truth about the fraudulent nature of their practices was more widely known are trying to discredit him. Sarah, of course, is one of these, and we really shouldn't be surprised that she's joined the Bolen chorus. Rolfe. |
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#22 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
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Quote:
The judge considers that the defendants' 'expert' had greater credibility because she was a trained homeopath. Seems we've heard a similar excuse from our pakistani friends: you must be qualified before you have the right to comment. The fact that no sane or rational person would qualify themselves as a homeopath seems not to matter, whereas it is prima facie evidence that they are a nutter whose opinions should be disregarded. Now, where was that case heard? Oh, yes. California Truly, the law can be an ass. The really sickening part is contained in this paragraph; "With respect to the products at issue in this case, Dr. Wilson is the only expert who investigated and evaluated any of the Defendants’ products and their ingredients. Based on her review and general knowledge of the field, she offered her opinion that all of the ingredients in Defendants’ products are listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States, which is the federally approved reference guide for all officially recognized homeopathic drugs. She also testified that all of Defendants’ labeling was consistent with the information respecting drug indications found in the Materia Medica. Based thereon, Dr. Wilson concluded, the Defendants’ products complied with all applicable FDA laws and regulations." where the sweetheart arrangement by which homeopathic remedies were given a free ride by the FDA is used by their defenders to escape their responsibilities. And nitwits like you Sarah think they are heroes. |
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
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#23 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
I just read the link in your sig with the wonderful job of diagnosis Sarah did. Why anyone should take medical advice from her is beyond me. ...especially if they have Addison's disease. |
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#24 |
Copper Alloy Canid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,993
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Quote:
ETA: Oh, and it's fun, too. |
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Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel |
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#25 |
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As I am learning... ![]() |
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#26 |
Critical Thinker
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#27 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
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__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#28 |
Cool cat
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,059
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Quote:
I'm rich! I'm independent! ![]() |
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Engineer by day, scientist by night. |
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#29 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2005
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#30 |
Guest
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#31 |
Guest
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For the client's sake I hope it's all imaginary with her. |
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#32 |
Copper Alloy Canid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,993
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Sarah-I's post: 07-28-2005 06:04 AM (CST)
Current time: 07-28-2005 07:04 PM (CST) It has been 13 hours since Sarah-I's last post. No links provided. |
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Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel |
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#33 |
Cool cat
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#34 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,209
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#35 |
Copper Alloy Canid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,993
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Quote:
But I think it's good to keep track. It'll let her know someone's monitoring her progress. |
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Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel |
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#36 |
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Well over 24 hours now. Where is Sarah and the links to her evidence? My prediction: They are all hanging out with bigfoot and having a beer. I am fed up with trolls making unsubstantiated libelous statements and runnig away. ![]() |
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#37 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,833
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I was about to post something to the effect of, to be fair, people aren't going to come here and post everyday.
But, then I realized, if you decide to open a thread with an libellous statement, then you should probably stick around to defend it. |
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#38 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,056
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Quote:
On this occasion Darat chose to pick up her statement and highlight it by starting a new thread with it. This allowed the original thread to remain on-track, but it also seems to have put the spotlight a bit too brightly on a remark Sarah probably didn't intend to have so much prominence. Rolfe. |
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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#39 |
Lackey
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Quote:
Unfortunately since she cannot or will not support her allegations then I have to conclude that they were totally and utterly without foundation. It is a shame for her that she does not have the integrity or strength of character to withdraw her scurrilous allegations. |
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#40 |
Copper Alloy Canid
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Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel |
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