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Tags film , bigfoot , patterson gimlin

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Old 6th November 2007, 07:35 AM   #8721
LTC8K6
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Why not make a practice movie of bigfoot at Bluff Creek for your documentary?

After all, it's almost impossible to get a movie of a real bigfoot.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 07:39 AM   #8722
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
The Gorilla Costume was made of Dynel according to Phillip Morris
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._n6145280/pg_4
And this is a Morris standard suit:

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Old 6th November 2007, 07:41 AM   #8723
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Why not make a practice movie of bigfoot at Bluff Creek for your documentary?

After all, it's almost impossible to get a movie of a real bigfoot.
Why not make it in Washington and save the expense of a trip to California?
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Old 6th November 2007, 07:55 AM   #8724
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
And this is a Morris standard suit:
It couldn't be modified, especially by a creative and artistic person like Patterson?

RayG
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Old 6th November 2007, 07:57 AM   #8725
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
Why not make it in Washington and save the expense of a trip to California?
Where was the footage of Patterson along with Heironimus riding on Chico taken, Lu?
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Old 6th November 2007, 07:57 AM   #8726
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Quote:
Why not make it in Washington and save the expense of a trip to California?
Because the story has to fit.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:07 AM   #8727
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I just don't fathom the idea that Patty (an elusive and wary NA bigfoot), upon being approached by two riders on Horseback, casually walked along the creek, leaving perfect footprints in the only footprint medium for miles around. And furthermore, upon reaching the pines, took off at a great rate of speed, (Insert stride measurement differences and Patterson's description of her running here), which indicates that she must have been threatened.
If this is the case(that she was threatened), the logical thing for the beast to do would have been to take the shortest route to the woods, perpendicular to the creek, and make her escape that way. Instead of a leisurely stroll along the creek with a deliberate glance back at her antagonists.

Reasons this leads me to a hoax conclusion

1. Footprints in muddy medium, How would they explain casts taken from the riverbed, if the video didn't show her in the riverbed.
2. It would have made a much shorter film, if the beast had done what came naturally, and taken a few leaps directly into the woodline.
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Last edited by Drewbot; 6th November 2007 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:12 AM   #8728
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
It couldn't be modified, especially by a creative and artistic person like Patterson?

RayG
Actually, my first thoughts on seeing the pic were that it's pretty close.

Do a bit of reshaping on the face to make it more human-like in shape/outline. Use a pair of hair clippers (the kind that have the plastic guard to cut to a set length) to trim the long hair of the suit. Use some of those hair clippings to glue on the face to cover up the cut marks from your reshaping, and to add a bit of fur and color to the cheeks. I'd say it'd be a fairly close match, least on a grainy, blurry, low-res image like what we have from the PGF.

ETA: Of course, I'm not sure of the state of hair clipper technology at the time, but the principal remains.

Last edited by Hellbound; 6th November 2007 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:24 AM   #8729
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Now, slow learners, scoffics and heretics, repeat with me the Footer PGF Credo:

In 40 years no one managed to prove PGF is a hoax
The IM rules out a man in a suit
The footprints' depth indicate the PGF subject was much heavier than the men
The gait is totally inhuman
The muscles can be seen bulging under the hairs
The tracks were seen by unrelated people

Repeat it 100 times like a mantra.
If after this exercise the credo has not turned in to reality for you, repeat for more 1000 times.

If after that you still do not believe it deep within your heart, repeat for more 10000 times.

If after this exercise the credo has not turned in to an unquestionable dogma, repeat for more 10000 times. Record it as loop and play it while you are asleep, driving your car, working, etc. for seven weeks.

If after this exercise the credo has not turned in to reality for you, its time to start with the flagellation.
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Last edited by Correa Neto; 6th November 2007 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:29 AM   #8730
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
Roger knew he was dying and wanted to leave something for his wife. Why not try to make something that would sell? (The book didn't do too well.)
Yeah, fake a Bigfoot and try to sell it as being real. That's what Patterson did, and forty years later you are still taking the bait.

Roger Patterson was a deal breaker. He borrowed money under contracts that went unreturned until law enforcement took action. He made promises to pay people for their services that went unpaid. He tried to screw Radford out of her loan to him. He didn't return the camera he had rented. He screwed his own Indian Tracker Bob Gimlin out of profit sharing. If BH is telling the truth, Roger screwed him out of $1000 for wearing the Patty costume.

Yes Lu, if Roger Patterson joined MABRC and these things were learned about him... Darkwing would probably move to banish him from the forum. It's because Patterson was a cheating backstabber. But he had a film of Bigfoot. That alone would grant him special privledges that are kept seperate from his personal financial dealings. Yeah, and CreekFreak has a photo of Bigfoot. Forget his bullcrap campfire stories of holes poked in bean cans found in his cupboards. The man has a photo of Bigfoot. Creek is just like Patterson. They are hapless yet conniving buffoons that also happened to capture Bigfoot on film and pixels. Both of them are hoaxers seeking to cash in. If you toss Creek, you gotta toss Roger too.
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:36 AM   #8731
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
C'mon, LAL. Don't play dumb. You've got some Sweaty on you. You know about these inconsistencies very well from the 3000 times we've dragged them out before, sources and all. This is oooold news. Why are you doing that?

Because I thought there was something new. I haven't been following this thread.

He said three inconsitancies in Roger's story. I don't see them. In front and/or to the left, rearing horses............a narrator said Roger jumped from the back of a rearing horse. Does that make four?

Looks like it'll be 3001.

Both were focused on the figure, not on each other. There was a reporter error in the first news story. Conflicting testimony from eyewitnesses when something unexpected happens is normal. Ask a cop.

If they rehearsed all this, why didn't they get the story straight?
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:39 AM   #8732
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Sometimes Roger falls off the side with the camera. Sometimes he has to run around to the side with the camera.
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:46 AM   #8733
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If you toss Creek, you gotta toss Roger too.
Non sequitur. Creek's photo is an obvious fake; no one will be arguing about it forty years from now.

Failure to pay back money and overselling the rights is not evidence of a hoax. Cutting Gimlin out wasn't a good move either, but Bob stands by his story.

You buy Bob Heironimus' story. How good of a hoax detector does that make you?
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:49 AM   #8734
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
It couldn't be modified, especially by a creative and artistic person like Patterson?

RayG
Why, of course! Get rid of the neck to crotch zipper, make the torso like a T-shirt and turn the Dynel into dead red horsehide. Why didn't I think of that?
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Old 6th November 2007, 08:58 AM   #8735
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
Why didn't I think of that?
Your emotional investment won't let you.

RayG
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Old 6th November 2007, 09:28 AM   #8736
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
Your emotional investment won't let you.

RayG
I just couldn't get around the logic. Heironimus described a completely different suit, Morris comes along with his claim and Heironimus abandons his claim that the "guy from Planet of the Apes" made it. Somewhere in there Bob went along with his brother's claim about the horsehide, and after that I lost track.

If you knew how unemotional I am, you'd think I'm dead.
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Old 6th November 2007, 09:35 AM   #8737
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Where was the footage of Patterson along with Heironimus riding on Chico taken, Lu?
Why is this labeled The Second Reel?

http://www.southwestdj.com/patterson.html

That's a clip from Bigfoot: Man or Beast. Parcher decided it shows Bob Heironimus riding Chico?

I'm trying to get caught up; really I am.
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Old 6th November 2007, 09:37 AM   #8738
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He said three inconsitancies in Roger's story. I don't see them. In front and/or to the left, rearing horses............a narrator said Roger jumped from the back of a rearing horse. Does that make four?
Nope, he said three different stories. He would have said more, but I stopped at three, figuring most folks had heard them all already. You asked him to source that when you already knew how many different versions had been told.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 09:40 AM   #8739
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
Parcher decided it shows Bob Heironimus riding Chico?
That's right, Lu. The first person you see is Heironimus on Chico pulling a packhorse. Roger is riding right behind him.
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Old 6th November 2007, 09:42 AM   #8740
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Why is this labeled The Second Reel?
We don't know. There is also that collage labeled 2ndreelstills.

That's why the big discussion about that clip. If it's the second reel, it has BH on it. BH on the same reel as Patty, in other words. We have made a guess that the section with BH was filmed at Cowiche Canyon because Gimlin said they were there earlier, and the terrain appears similar. It's also evident that a third person is present and filming BH and RP in the "Cowiche Canyon" section of the film.

I have personally wondered why BG hardly mentions the times he used the movie camera.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 10:03 AM   #8741
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W: Now, okay, so you then gave up . you took the plaster tracks . How deep were these tracks by the way, in inches? . Inch and a quarter or .

B: Some of them were down as far as three and a half inches deep into the softer soil. These particular ones we took here were, weren't quite so deep because they were flatter tracks.
Who believes this garbage? 3.5 inches deep? She'd be flinging sand all over the place as she walked. Flatter tracks? Flatter than what?

If Patty was making regular tracks that weren't quite 3.5 inches deep in the hard sand, then she was making deep tracks in the pine needles, too. She'd also be flinging soil all over as she walked with her feet sinking so low in the ground at each step.

The reason the "flatter" tracks weren't quite so deep is because you can't drive a fake wooden foot very deep into the soil if you try to do it flat. If you drive the heel in first, you can go deeper, like the Laverty photo track.

This is the November 1967 interview and Gimlin is already making crap up, imo.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 10:08 AM   #8742
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How can you get a "flat track" with a long stride from a heavy biped anyway?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 10:41 AM   #8743
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That's right, Lu. The first person you see is Heironimus on Chico pulling a packhorse. Roger is riding right behind him.
Chris Murphy identified the rider behind the guy in the vest as Roger Patterson's son; it certainly doesn't look like Roger (paused from the CD on a Hi-Def screen). The next footage is Roger leading a packhorse.

This proves what? That people can "pull" packhorses?
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Old 6th November 2007, 10:43 AM   #8744
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How can you get a "flat track" with a long stride from a heavy biped anyway?
Compliant gait. Try it sometime. It's very quiet, too.
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Old 6th November 2007, 10:52 AM   #8745
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Compliant gait. Try it sometime. It's very quiet, too.
Patty is clearly walking the same way I do, though. She is landing heel first and pushing off with her toes. Try thinking for yourself instead of parroting Meldrum.

When people duplicate the gait, they also land on their heel and push off with their toes just like I do.

So how can Patty make a flat track in sandy soil where she is sinking in considerably?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 10:58 AM   #8746
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
We don't know. There is also that collage labeled 2ndreelstills.

That's why the big discussion about that clip. If it's the second reel, it has BH on it. BH on the same reel as Patty, in other words. We have made a guess that the section with BH was filmed at Cowiche Canyon because Gimlin said they were there earlier, and the terrain appears similar. It's also evident that a third person is present and filming BH and RP in the "Cowiche Canyon" section of the film.

I have personally wondered why BG hardly mentions the times he used the movie camera.
These are clips used in Bigfoot: Man or Beast (1971). They may not all be from the same "shoot"l. The casting footage was on the second reel (the first reel ran out). The footage of Roger (there's also some of Gimlin- he's on a much larger horse- but it wasn't included) is from the first reel. Patty was on the first reel.

Was Roger's son in Cowiche Canyon?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:01 AM   #8747
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Patty is clearly walking the same way I do, though. She is landing heel first and pushing off with her toes. Try thinking for yourself instead of parroting Meldrum.

When people duplicate the gait, they also land on their heel and push off with their toes just like I do.

So how can Patty make a flat track in sandy soil where she is sinking in considerably?
I tried it long before I read Meldrum. I was checking my glut wiggle. My feet pick straight up.

How would someone in fake feet do it?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:06 AM   #8748
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Patty walking just like a person, with a short stride and heel and toeing.

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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:11 AM   #8749
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Was Roger's son in Cowiche Canyon?
Is it Roger's son or Roger and how does anyone know?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:13 AM   #8750
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
Chris Murphy identified the rider behind the guy in the vest as Roger Patterson's son; it certainly doesn't look like Roger (paused from the CD on a Hi-Def screen). The next footage is Roger leading a packhorse.

This proves what? That people can "pull" packhorses?
I now believe that that is not Roger riding behind BH. Murphy knows that this is Roger's son? OK. Maybe he was the one holding the camera for the shot of the six Bigfoot searchers all together.

It doesn't prove a hoax at all. But it's good to try to account for all the footage and players that we can. We can build a picture of what was going on. The posse was pretending to look for Bigfoot while the camera was rolling.
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:14 AM   #8751
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How would someone in fake feet do it?
They wouldn't have to, as you already know. This is tiring. If it's a hoax, then the tracks would have been created seperately, of course.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:15 AM   #8752
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The full blockfoot frame, I think...

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Old 6th November 2007, 11:16 AM   #8753
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The jacket isn't an obvious match and his face looks young. I should have applied the same visual scrutiny to that guy. I don't think it's Roger anymore. I'm very willing to hear arguments that it is, or may be Roger.
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:16 AM   #8754
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Originally Posted by LAL View Post
This proves what? That people can "pull" packhorses?
Bob 'footers curse my name' Heironimus is in Patterson's film and you don't have a problem with that. It's staggering, really.

I could be the biggest stumpknocker on the block, laughing 'dead red' this and 'football helmet' that, Greg Long photo on my dart board. Somebody says to me "You know, Heironimus is in the film with Patterson."- I spit my kool-aid, fall out my chair, have palpitations. I check it myself and then I think reaal hard about the $300 I popped for next week's BFRO expedition and the night vision goggles I just finished paying installments on. mmhmm.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

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Old 6th November 2007, 11:19 AM   #8755
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If it's a hoax, then the tracks would have been created seperately, of course.
The tracks made by the suit wearer would have a normal human stride measurement. Can't show anyone that trackway.
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:27 AM   #8756
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If it's Roger's son, when was it taken and where was Bob Gimlin?

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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:33 AM   #8757
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My guess would be Cowiche Canyon with his son acting as one of the posse. Where was Gimlin? Somewhere off camera. Who held the camera for the shot of the six horsemen?

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Old 6th November 2007, 11:40 AM   #8758
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It's the same hat on Roger and "Roger's son", imo.

Not the hat in the cast pour photos, imo.

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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:42 AM   #8759
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There's just way to know what was shot when or where, really.

We'll never get to see the original films.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 6th November 2007, 11:43 AM   #8760
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Six cowboys: left to right...Roger Patterson, John Ballard, Jerry Merritt, Howard Heironimus, Bob Gimlin and Bob Heironimus.

Some key indicators for trying to ID people in various riding scenes. (However there was some horse switching as we can see): Look at the horse color, gear, etc; look at the clothing; look at the hat.
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