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Old 13th April 2006, 04:24 PM   #1
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Loose Change: I'm Sick About This

And I'm sick of this.

I've been posting some Loose Change forum quotes to the "Conspiracy Theorists Say the Darndest Things" site. There is no shortage of material that's just incredibly stupid, and some of it is very insensitive. But now this.

There is a well-known photo of a woman standing in the gash made by one of the airliners at the WTC. The worst thing in the world has just happened to her. She has no good choices. No one can help her. She is going to die.

Here's what "popul vuh," who is listed as "Global Moderator," has to say about that photo:

Quote:
BUT LOOK AT HER OUTFIT, 100% ASBESTOS CHINOS WITH A LOVELY MATCHING FLAME RETARDANT CABLE KNIT V NECK SWEATER.

THAT OUTFIT IS HOT, HOT, HOT!
That cinches it for me. They think they're activists for truth? I'm now an activist who will be spreading the truth about them. They think they're coming to New York to educate the public at Ground Zero? I'll be there with my friends. I hope you wanted Gravy with that, Dylan Avery.
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Old 13th April 2006, 04:30 PM   #2
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If you show up to protest against them, and have a sign, make sure it is on a very long pole. Or else they will attempt to cover it up w/ their own signs.

Wish I could be there...
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Old 13th April 2006, 04:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
If you show up to protest against them, and have a sign, make sure it is on a very long pole. Or else they will attempt to cover it up w/ their own signs.

Wish I could be there...
Good advice. Actually, I am a long pole, and very wide. So to speak. And I'll have literature. And news coverage. And maybe some victims' family members would like to come along to see the kind of "truth" that's spread by Loose Change.

But that's just a small part of what I'll be doing to get the word out.
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Old 13th April 2006, 04:53 PM   #4
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I know the feeling. I'm more and more pissed at reading these incredible comments by these loosers who seem to have no respect for the innocent lives that have been lost that day.

I think it's completly justified to criticise America's response to 9-11, the lack of communications, the complete unpreparedness of the government, the justification for the war in Iraq, etc... And it is being done, inquaries and real investigations (not about conspiracies but about intelligence failures) are going on. But this Loose Change thing is SICK. These sick loosers have no idea how their conspiracy theories fuel the Middle East's anger towards America, how they weaken America's unity and how they undermine the overall security of the World. Sure america has alot to answer for and they are partially to blame for what is happening in the world. But creating uncertainty and suspicion in people's minds is counterproductive. And alot of people are buying into what they are saying. While they are building this house of cards, real and imminent danger is at our door. They are completely throwing off the debate.

Last edited by Pardalis; 13th April 2006 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 13th April 2006, 04:55 PM   #5
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What a freakin A hole.

I wish I could join you, but distance and my short temper prevent me.
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Old 13th April 2006, 05:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Good advice. Actually, I am a long pole, and very wide. So to speak. And I'll have literature. And news coverage. And maybe some victims' family members would like to come along to see the kind of "truth" that's spread by Loose Change.

But that's just a small part of what I'll be doing to get the word out.
Lemme know when and where. I may be able to arrange a few bikers so as to give them the full Fred Phelps treatment.
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Old 13th April 2006, 05:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by manny View Post
Lemme know when and where. I may be able to arrange a few bikers so as to give them the full Fred Phelps treatment.
That would be worth seeing...
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Old 13th April 2006, 05:33 PM   #8
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Go get 'em, Gravy.

It was similar feelings which led me to create the StopKaz site.

Why people want to make a mockery of all the pain, suffering and death of that day is beyond me.
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Old 13th April 2006, 05:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by FFed View Post
What a freakin A hole.

I wish I could join you, but distance and my short temper prevent me.
Ditto. I'd be too tempted to bring my Jesus Stick™ with me. My temper's barely long enough to read their posts, much less respond to them. Go get 'em, Gravy.
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Old 13th April 2006, 07:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by manny View Post
Lemme know when and where. I may be able to arrange a few bikers so as to give them the full Fred Phelps treatment.
Ha! Will do. They're not talking about doing their thing until 9/11, but I'll keep an eye out for other appearances of Dylan & co.
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Old 13th April 2006, 08:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
Go get 'em, Gravy.

It was similar feelings which led me to create the StopKaz site.

Why people want to make a mockery of all the pain, suffering and death of that day is beyond me.
Oh, and did I come across a lot more tonight: amazing comments and jokes about the whereabouts of the "missing" passengers, unbelievably disparaging remarks about families of flight 93 victims who screened a movie about the event, and more. I'm ripping mad.

Now seeing the news come on about nearly 300 human remains atop the Deutsche Bank bldg at the WTC. Those poor families, having to go through that again.

Seriously, I can't wait to see what the Loosers make of this.No doubt they'll accuse the gov't of placing the remains there.

By the way, great job with StopKaz. I've been rooting for you for a long time.
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Old 13th April 2006, 08:28 PM   #12
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Very few things make me cry. Seeing that post on Loose Change did.

I couldn't help it. OMG, I'm crying now. To think about that woman, whoever she was, and where she stood, and the choices in front of her. And to think about these callous and indifferent idiots....

At the same time, I want to thank everyone on this forum.

Today, as it happens, as we finished up at work, it was just me and one other coworker left on our floor. We got to talking about this and that. She mentioned the generals calling for Rumsfeld's resignation, and made some comments about how she felt the administration can't be trusted.

Then, knowing that I'm one to look into things, she said she'd heard some of these conspiracy theories about 9/11, how Bush might have been involved. She asked if I'd heard about that. I said I had. She asked if I thought there was anything to it.

Because some good people on this forum engaged the conspiracy theorists, because you brought them onto this board and exposed their arguments, because you linked to their sites where I could read what they had to say, because you followed up on their claims and exposed their sources, I was able to do more than say "They're crazy." I was able to tell her what they're saying, and what their evidence is, and why it's bogus.

She said, "I'm glad you've looked into it, because I wanted to know."

You all have done a good thing. Your work reaches beyond this forum, even if you don't always hear about it. I'm proud to be here.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to try to stop crying.
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Old 13th April 2006, 08:49 PM   #13
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Angry

* no comment *

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Old 13th April 2006, 08:52 PM   #14
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It's heartbreaking to think what might have been going through her head. Maybe thinking about what her options were. Can she get by the debris to an exit? Can she stand the smoke long enough to make it to an exit? Should she wait to be rescued? Should she jump?

What I guarantee she was not thinking about, will some smarmy a--hole make fun of me in the moments before I make that decision?

I hope there is a hell, and I get to see that j---off there.
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Old 13th April 2006, 08:56 PM   #15
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If this person has a conscience, he (or she, or very likely it) will use its moderator powers to delete that thread, after the briefest bit of reflection on it.

I don't know which is worse, that this waste of carbon wrote that post, or that it thinks its friends will appreciate it. Or worse, that they actually do.

Saddening and sickening. Thanks for the eye-opener, Gravy. I wish you had had no need to.
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Old 13th April 2006, 09:00 PM   #16
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Funny how Roxdog as trying to lecture us about mass murder on the Death Star thread.

Irony should hurt, hurt like big jagged rocks on ones skull
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Old 13th April 2006, 10:42 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Piggy View Post
Very few things make me cry. Seeing that post on Loose Change did.

I couldn't help it. OMG, I'm crying now. To think about that woman, whoever she was, and where she stood, and the choices in front of her. And to think about these callous and indifferent idiots....

At the same time, I want to thank everyone on this forum.

Today, as it happens, as we finished up at work, it was just me and one other coworker left on our floor. We got to talking about this and that. She mentioned the generals calling for Rumsfeld's resignation, and made some comments about how she felt the administration can't be trusted.

Then, knowing that I'm one to look into things, she said she'd heard some of these conspiracy theories about 9/11, how Bush might have been involved. She asked if I'd heard about that. I said I had. She asked if I thought there was anything to it.

Because some good people on this forum engaged the conspiracy theorists, because you brought them onto this board and exposed their arguments, because you linked to their sites where I could read what they had to say, because you followed up on their claims and exposed their sources, I was able to do more than say "They're crazy." I was able to tell her what they're saying, and what their evidence is, and why it's bogus.

She said, "I'm glad you've looked into it, because I wanted to know."

You all have done a good thing. Your work reaches beyond this forum, even if you don't always hear about it. I'm proud to be here.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to try to stop crying.



I wish I could find more than a smiley to express what I feel. Thankyou very much for your post, Piggy.
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Old 13th April 2006, 10:53 PM   #18
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That is pretty sick. You could tell this guy doesn't care about the victims of 9/11 but just his own personal agenda. Little off topic but I've recently listened to some of the recordings of people calling 911 who were in the south tower of the world trade center and it really puts things in perspective.
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Old 13th April 2006, 11:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
And I'm sick of this.

I've been posting some Loose Change forum quotes to the "Conspiracy Theorists Say the Darndest Things" site. There is no shortage of material that's just incredibly stupid, and some of it is very insensitive. But now this.

There is a well-known photo of a woman standing in the gash made by one of the airliners at the WTC. The worst thing in the world has just happened to her. She has no good choices. No one can help her. She is going to die.

Here's what "popul vuh," who is listed as "Global Moderator," has to say about that photo:
I dealt with popul vuh. Ignoramus.
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Old 13th April 2006, 11:32 PM   #20
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Old 14th April 2006, 01:04 AM   #21
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Not to derail, but is there a place that confirms that that is a woman on the edge of the impact sight?
The more I look at the blow up and the wider shot the more it looks like her pants are just a piece of building debris from the outside wall and her head is made up of the same stuff you can see down and to the left of her on the other side of the ‘hole’ she is standing in.

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Old 14th April 2006, 01:27 AM   #22
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I think that 'stuff' to the left is another victim, hence the matching colour.

Even if you're right though, it would do no good. To these folks, if it looks like evidence, its evidence.
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Old 14th April 2006, 01:35 AM   #23
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Here is the video of her waving.

Download FLURL-dot-com-11433-Jeth_WTC__high_zoom_woman_waving.avi
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Old 14th April 2006, 01:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by FFed View Post
Hard to tell from a 3 second video clip, but it looks even less like a person there then the photos.

-PopeTom
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Old 14th April 2006, 01:54 AM   #25
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Heartbreaking.
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Old 14th April 2006, 02:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Shrinker View Post
I think that 'stuff' to the left is another victim, hence the matching colour.

Even if you're right though, it would do no good. To these folks, if it looks like evidence, its evidence.
That is.

Motherf***ers.

There are no words, but delphi's post works.
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Old 14th April 2006, 02:44 AM   #27
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I wish I had something worthwhile to add.

All I've got - I'm on JREF now because of the insanity of the nine-eleven conspiracy crowd. I am willing to do what is necessary to counter these people.
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Old 14th April 2006, 04:25 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by PopeTom View Post
Not to derail, but is there a place that confirms that that is a woman on the edge of the impact sight?
The accuracy of the photo doesn't matter. We know there were human beings who were staring out of that maw, with hell behind them, a chasm in front of them. We know how many of them perished, some of them driven to jump from the building.

What matters is that someone in his comfortable chair can look at a photo which seems to be of one of the victims of that massacre and mock them.
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Old 14th April 2006, 04:39 AM   #29
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Truly sickening.
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Old 14th April 2006, 04:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by PopeTom View Post
Hard to tell from a 3 second video clip, but it looks even less like a person there then the photos.

-PopeTom
What else would it be?
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Old 14th April 2006, 04:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by CFLarsen View Post
What else would it be?
It's definitely a woman waving, there is a better video somewhere if you look. It also shows the floors above and below her on fire.

I don't know why this is considered evidence of anything by the loosers, who apparently think people can't move around in a building.
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Old 14th April 2006, 04:53 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
It's definitely a woman waving, there is a better video somewhere if you look. It also shows the floors above and below her on fire.
Quite so. I can't see any other explanation.

Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I don't know why this is considered evidence of anything by the loosers, who apparently think people can't move around in a building.
"Loosers". Very precise description.
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Old 14th April 2006, 05:44 AM   #33
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If it is a woman, and I am inclined to think it is, so what? She's one survivor (up until that point). She's at the one location that I can be certain that there was very little flammable material nearby (having been pushed by the impact of the plane.) So once any jet fuel burned off (and most of it probably sprayed further into the building) there was little in that area to burn. We don't know her story, or her fate. She might have picked her way down several flights of damaged stairs, until she reached the stairs that were too damaged to pass. She might have pciked here way to the opening, desperately hoping (incorrectly) that someone might be able to extract her from the opening. Or maybe she was just trying to get away from the smoke.

To say that she is proof that the fire was not intense is disgusting. In the video you can clearly see that the fire is burning both above her and bleow her position.

Ultimately, we don't know her fate. A few seconds after this video she might have jumped, desperate to escape the blaze. Lot's of people did that day. She might have gone back inside, knowing there was no escape, gotten to an area free of fire, and then the building collapsed. One thing is for certain, she is dead.

And the Loosers can only make fun of her.
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Old 14th April 2006, 06:38 AM   #34
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At the Moussaoui trial they apparently played any number of similar videos made by people in neighboring high-rise buildings. Why this one is out and about, I can't say. Some of these videos are jumps, and as this woman apparently realized she was being videotaped, others must have as well...

Ouch. Well even if it is not a person (and I'm pretty sure it is) there must be similar images that are undisputedly people.

And she is dead. No one got out from that high in the building.

It's also possible that the video keeps going and shows how she ultimately died. Perhaps it even shows her burning to death. These things exist, but thankfully they are not on the net.

Clarifacation: I did some poking around and actually no one got out of North Tower above the impact point but a handful of people (18) did get out of South tower from above the impact point.
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Old 14th April 2006, 06:45 AM   #35
ImaginalDisc
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Piggy, I nominated your post because I think it illustrates what good the forum can do.
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Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. -HK-47
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Old 14th April 2006, 07:15 AM   #36
0oTITANo0
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I am skeptical that that is the woman waving.

If she were waving vigorously the head would move back and forth as her body moves with the vigorous waving. When people wave their arms slow down as the arm changes direction. When waving people either fully extend their arms or they bend their arms at the elbow. The rhythm of the moving object suggests a swinging piece of debris more than a woman waving her arms.

From photos there was definitely a woman in the opening, but she does not appear to be there in the movie.

Last edited by 0oTITANo0; 14th April 2006 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 14th April 2006, 07:20 AM   #37
ImaginalDisc
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Originally Posted by 0oTITANo0 View Post
I am skeptical that that is the woman waving.

If she were waving vigorously the head would move back and forth as her body moves with the vigorous waving. When people wave their arms slow down as the arm changes direction. The rhythm of the moving object suggests a swinging piece of debris more than a woman waving.
None of this need be the case.
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Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. -HK-47
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Old 14th April 2006, 07:24 AM   #38
CFLarsen
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Originally Posted by 0oTITANo0 View Post
I am skeptical that that is the woman waving.

If she were waving vigorously the head would move back and forth as her body moves with the vigorous waving. When people wave their arms slow down as the arm changes direction. When waving people either fully extend their arms or they bend their arms at the elbow. The rhythm of the moving object suggests a swinging piece of debris more than a woman waving her arms.

From photos there was definitely a woman in the opening, but she does not appear to be there in the movie.
Ok, then.

If not the woman, what is "waving"?
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Old 14th April 2006, 08:02 AM   #39
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this is my first post here, ive been against these loosers for a long time, but this really irks me.

i found video of the loose change creators at ground zero on 9/11 arguing with firefighters that the government is behind all this. then after that they harrass a widow and proceed to tell her that "we've been doing this research for 4 years and this documentary is the proof that the government killed your husband"

the whole time they're surrounded by other nuts, laughing at times, hanging out with the janitor who has seven different stories of what happened to him that day. its really disturbing, since they claim in the beginning that this is out of respect for the families of victims.

i live in NYC and i will be there this year with the real facts to hand out to people. i'll see ya there gravy!

i cant post the link to the video cause this is my first post, but you can googlevideo it "loose change groud zero revisited"

and this is my first post so, hi everyone!
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Old 14th April 2006, 08:07 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ramooone View Post
this is my first post here, ive been against these loosers for a long time, but this really irks me.

i found video of the loose change creators at ground zero on 9/11 arguing with firefighters that the government is behind all this. then after that they harrass a widow and proceed to tell her that "we've been doing this research for 4 years and this documentary is the proof that the government killed your husband"

the whole time they're surrounded by other nuts, laughing at times, hanging out with the janitor who has seven different stories of what happened to him that day. its really disturbing, since they claim in the beginning that this is out of respect for the families of victims.

i live in NYC and i will be there this year with the real facts to hand out to people. i'll see ya there gravy!

i cant post the link to the video cause this is my first post, but you can googlevideo it "loose change groud zero revisited"

and this is my first post so, hi everyone!
Welcome to the forum.

Here's the video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...change&pl=true
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