Open letter to Loose Change forumites, 911 CT'ers, et al

To any Loose Change forumites, 911 CT'ers, etc that may still be reading the JREF forums,

If you want the Cliff Notes version, skip to the last paragraph.

Enough is enough. You have come to a forum for skeptics, critical thinkers, debunkers, and scientific process with your posts. You have been posting here for a number of months. It is time for you to make a decision.

If you truly believe that the events, as described by the 9/11 Commission repoirt and other official sources, to be incorrect (either intentionally, or by error), then get your act together. On these forums you have been provided with ample information on how to investigate, gather evidence, corraborate evidence, and present it in a scientifically, and logically, valid manner. Use these tools to put together a case that holds up to scrutiny.

If, on the other hand, you put together these theories because you are bored, dislike the current administration, enjoy mental masturbation, or other reasons; then shut up.

Regardless of which of the above is true (you believe exactly what you state, or not) you actions are an insult to people who died on that day, and those that have died since then in taking action to try to ensure the safety of the US and its allies. You slander and libel against people. If your theories are correct you do a disservice by failing to present them in a manner that can truly bring injustice to light; and if your theories are incorrect, you are spreading disinformation.

In short, put up or shut up. Either make a coherent; scientifically and logically valid, argument or go chase UFOs, bigfoot, or some other bogeyman.

-AW

Arkan,

I recon you could leave out the "insult to people who died on that day" stuff.

Whilst it may be true, and I see it discussed in many similar threads,
it seems to me that it is fairly irrelevant to the issue,
ie, the issue of the lack of credible evidence provided by CTrs for their claims.

$0.02

Flange Desire said:

Arkan,

I recon you could leave out the "insult to people who died on that day" stuff.

Whilst it may be true, and I see it discussed in many similar threads,
it seems to me that it is fairly irrelevant to the issue,
ie, the issue of the lack of credible evidence provided by CTrs for their claims.

$0.02

Click to expand...

Flange, thank you for taking the time to read, and provide constructive critique of it. You do make a good point, but allow me to clarify the intent of my OP.

If the CT'ers are right, and they are incompetently going about showing the world the truth, then it's an insult. If they are wrong, and they won't stop what they are doing, then it's an insult. They spit on the graves of thousands of people through they inability to do the right thing.

Gravy, Chipmunk Stew, and many others have done a most excellent job of addressing the content of the CT'ers claims. I've finally gotten fed up, and I decided to address the spirit of their claims; to throw down a virtual gauntlet as it were.

It was suggested in the Loose Change thread that they act no different than a religious fanatic (such as the YECs), and I don't disagree with that assessment. Unfortunetly for the CT'ers, basing their arguments on faith holds no water. It's time for them to poop or get off the pot, fish or cut bait, put up or shut up, etc

I'll let those more educated in the relevent areas of expertise to the CT'ers facts deal with the facts. I'm feeling the need to deal with the CT'ers honor, patriotism, motives, intent, and spirit.

-AW

Arkan_Wolfshade said:

Flange, thank you for taking the time to read, and provide constructive critique of it. You do make a good point, but allow me to clarify the intent of my OP.

If the CT'ers are right, and they are incompetently going about showing the world the truth, then it's an insult. If they are wrong, and they won't stop what they are doing, then it's an insult. They spit on the graves of thousands of people through they inability to do the right thing.

Gravy, Chipmunk Stew, and many others have done a most excellent job of addressing the content of the CT'ers claims. I've finally gotten fed up, and I decided to address the spirit of their claims; to throw down a virtual gauntlet as it were.

It was suggested in the Loose Change thread that they act no different than a religious fanatic (such as the YECs), and I don't disagree with that assessment. Unfortunetly for the CT'ers, basing their arguments on faith holds no water. It's time for them to poop or get off the pot, fish or cut bait, put up or shut up, etc

I'll let those more educated in the relevent areas of expertise to the CT'ers facts deal with the facts. I'm feeling the need to deal with the CT'ers honor, patriotism, motives, intent, and spirit.

-AW

Click to expand...

I'm with you, Arkan. At the premiere of "United 93" a reporter asked me if I spoke for the families of victims. I said (approximately), "Absolutely not, but you don't have to have lost a loved one on 9/11 to be offended by the lack of respect shown by these protesters. They don't respect the victims, they don't respect the investigators, they don't respect New Yorkers – all of whom are affected – and they don't respect thinking people in general. And it's not a passive disrespect, it's aggressive, 'In your face' ignorance, from people who say they're members of a 'Truth Movement.' So that's why I'm out here."

Gravy said:

I'm with you, Arkan. At the premiere of "United 93" a reporter asked me if I spoke for the families of victims. I said (approximately), "Absolutely not, but you don't have to have lost a loved one on 9/11 to be offended by the lack of respect shown by these protesters. They don't respect the victims, they don't respect the investigators, they don't respect New Yorkers – all of whom are affected – and they don't respect thinking people in general. And it's not a passive disrespect, it's aggressive, 'In your face' ignorance, from people who say they're members of a 'Truth Movement.' So that's why I'm out here."

Click to expand...

Well said. With that, and my above rants to the side for the moment, I would like to emphasize that any effort/support/etc I can lend to those dealing with the facts, details, and evidence put forth by the CT'ers I would more than gladly give. I just felt this was a different enough slant on the issue to warrent a new thread, rather than posting in the Loose Change thread itself.

i know where flange was coming from with his comments- some people use the "let's respect/have pride/etc" argument to try to stifle skepticism, so the fact that a lot of people died and/or were affected by some event isnt a reason in and of itself to accept an explanation and "move on", so his skeptic's radar probably got a few blips, but in this case, i think it is legitimate to say what arkan and gravy are saying- these people have gone thru a lot, and unless you have some fresh, strong evidence, dont go out in public and make a scene that is hurtful to people.

anyway, my comment in terms of the overall message is, yeah, just stuff it till there is something new to say. refuting the same weak arguments is nutty.