Loose Change - Part II - Page 80

aggle-rithm · 17th June 2006, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by steve s

They do if they know they only have a few days left to live. That's like saying "Real priests don't molest kids." It happens.

Steve S.

Q. Why should you always invite TWO Baptists to your fishing trip?

A. If you invite only one, he'll drink all your beer.

Blue Mountain · 17th June 2006, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by azazal

I will admit I AM NOT A PILOT, however, my father used to own and fly an old Piper Tri-Pacer.

An uncle of mine has had his pilot's license for years. He described the "flying" part of flying as "hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror."

Professional airline pilots mostly make their money at take-off and landing. While in the air ... well, another quote: "A modern jetliner can be flown by a pilot and a dog. The pilot's job is to feed the dog. The dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches the controls." (I heard that one on PBS's NOVA.)

MarkyX · 17th June 2006, 05:29 PM

Looser alert in another board.

http://shetlink.com/modules.php?name...&p=14961#14961

Axiom_Blade · 17th June 2006, 06:02 PM

I particularly enjoyed this post, MarkyX.

Originally Posted by Awake the Sheep

I wouldn't hang with these MORONS ever. They are the MODERN DAY UNCLE TOM's or shall I call you the UNCLE SAM BOOTLICKERS. Yes boss, of course boss we know those evil Arabs did it. No I believe you...cause you told me boss.

Originally Posted by Awake the Sheep

I wouldn't hang with these MORONS ever.

Ah, if only that were the truth!

MarkyX · 17th June 2006, 06:13 PM

OneSidedCookie is pwning them.

CTs can never debate on the topic. They just rant on and on.

Axiom_Blade · 17th June 2006, 07:17 PM

I love this.

Originally Posted by OPERATION NORTHWOODS

LOLOLOL....wtc7???? dude are you serious????? dont go there....it was a controled demolision, according to its owner...

WOW. That's a mighty shallow gene pool!

realitybites · 17th June 2006, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by bob_kark

I think it has more to do with a growing need for teen melodrama than anything else. If you'll notice, as the ration of teen dramas to teen shows in general increases, the need for melodrama follows.

I'll give ya' that one Bob, but unfortunately, that doesn't explain the elder kooks.

Teens? Sure. We all know the need for rebellion is present to some extent in every teenager. Normally they take it out on mom or dad. Maybe the local cops if they're feeling particularly ornery. But what could be more rebellious, more "rage against the machine", than to confront ones own government?

Orphia Nay · 17th June 2006, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Stellafane

Does anyone else see a parallel here with the anti-abortion movement? At the start, it was led by arguably reasonable people. But then they began to argue that a fetus is the same as a human, thus abortion = murder. They probably didn't believe this entirely, but it made for emphatic and dramatic rhetoric. Problem is, less tightly wrapped followers took such statements literally, and started bombing clinics and shooting doctors to stop the "murders."

I wonder if the 9/11 CT movement is heading in the same direction. First you have goofs like Dylan Avery just "asking questions." (That he doesn't take his work very seriously is evidenced by his statement that he doesn't even think Bush should go to jail, despite creating a film that claims he's a mass murderer.) Now LC is attracting a few lost souls, looking for relevance and meaning in their lives. I fear that even as we speak, one or more of them is hatching some wild plan in their fevered mind, one that calls for actual violence against those identified as supporting the 9/11 conspiracy, in the spirit of bringing the person "to justice."

[Emphasis added]

Important points, Stellafane.

I agree that this is a fear that drives many of us to speak up about the madness of the 'movement'. At first I was driven by wanting to defend the already-vulnerable victims' families and friends against the (not always obviously) baseless allegations of the conspiracy theorists, but I have subsequently become worried, after seeing the 'truthers'' vehemence and dogmatism, that someone is going to get hurt.

As yet, though, no one person has been named as the mastermind of the 'cover-up', which is some consolation.

Actually, I'm sure this conspiracy theory has probably hurt people already, in the sense that some people may be too paranoid to leave the house and go to work; families and friends are worried about about people; friendships have been lost.

EchoWars · 18th June 2006, 12:21 AM

There is sooooo much information here that it is difficult to comprehend....

I found JREF after few friends sent me a link to the LC video, saying "How could our govt. DO that to us???" My immediate reply, after wasting those hours of my life (that, not incidentally, I want back) watching that drivel, was "They didn't".

With the help of Google, I found a few facts for myself, and with the heated battle between the CT's and JREF, seems I couldn't miss a few hits to JREF. I then found the *.doc of Gravy's debunk, and sent it to my gullible friends. All three of them responded to me with some version of "I can't believe I fell for that BS".

There are some amazingly intellegent people here...far beyond my puny grey matter to match wits with. However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try.

Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website?

Color me pleased.

EW

RandFan · 18th June 2006, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by EchoWars

There is sooooo much information here that it is difficult to comprehend....

I found JREF after few friends sent me a link to the LC video, saying "How could our govt. DO that to us???" My immediate reply, after wasting those hours of my life (that, not incidentally, I want back) watching that drivel, was "They didn't".

With the help of Google, I found a few facts for myself, and with the heated battle between the CT's and JREF, seems I couldn't miss a few hits to JREF. I then found the *.doc of Gravy's debunk, and sent it to my gullible friends. All three of them responded to me with some version of "I can't believe I fell for that BS".

There are some amazingly intellegent people here...far beyond my puny grey matter to match wits with. However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try.

Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website?

Color me pleased.

EW

Welcome to the forum.

Many of the members here tower over me in intellect. You don't need to be a genius to debate and contribute.

1.) Educate yourself as much as you can (learn both sides of the argument)

2.) Pick your battles. If you are fuzzy in an area try not to step into the fray even if your opponent is a few bricks short of a load.

3.) If you don't already understand proper debating techniques and how to make and spot arguments and how to avoid fallacy then check out Logic & Fallacies. Pay special attention to the argument clinic (Monty Python Sketch). Here is the video version.

If you know all of this then ignore it.

RandFan

Gravy · 18th June 2006, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by EchoWars

However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try.

Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website?

Color me pleased.

EW

Welcome, and thanks! You may be interested in my latest production, which I'm just announcing now. It's a sad and scary look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. actually believe the insane things they say.

Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF.
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105

If anyone wants to host this, feel free. These guys want exposure, and I plan on giving it to them.

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 04:10 AM

Does anyone have a link to a downloadable version of "Loose Change"? I'm doing an internet piece on copyright/press ethics and I want use that bloody thing as a warning example. But that means I actually have to see it a couple of times in order to get every infraction and being able to do a "before /after" on the quotes.
YouTube is a progressive download thingy, but I can't seem to locate the temp file it creates and I need something for posterity.......
Help?

60hzxtl · 18th June 2006, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

But that means I actually have to see it a couple of times in order to get every infraction and being able to do a "before /after" on the quotes.
Help?

Oddly enough, even their website link no longer works (Thank you Naudet Bros.!) http://www.loosechange911.com/

You have my sympathy having to see it - and see it again.

There are plenty of copies to be had out there, (The Film So Good We Have To Give It Away!) you just have to hold your nose about the way you acquire it.

The good news is, that we are a crafty bunch around here. I'm certain the solution is around the corner - and I am NOT psychic.

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by 60hzxtl

Oddly enough, even their website link no longer works (Thank you Naudet Bros.!) http://www.loosechange911.com/

*Gloating laugh*. I'm liking the Naudets more and more by the second.

Quote:

You have my sympathy having to see it - and see it again.

I know. My braincells are already screaming in panic....I wonder if a tinfoil hat can do the trick....

Quote:

There are plenty of copies to be had out there, (The Film So Good We Have To Give It Away!) you just have to hold your nose about the way you acquire it.

Let me guess: Just go by the smell of bovine excrements?

Quote:

The good news is, that we are a crafty bunch around here. I'm certain the solution is around the corner - and I am NOT psychic.

That's what I'm hoping.....

60hzxtl · 18th June 2006, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

I know. My braincells are already screaming in panic....I wonder if a tinfoil hat can do the trick....
...

Now there is something I can help with. . .

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

MarkyX · 18th June 2006, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Welcome, and thanks! You may be interested in my latest production, which I'm just announcing now. It's a sad and scary look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. actually believe the insane things they say.

Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF.
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105

If anyone wants to host this, feel free. These guys want exposure, and I plan on giving it to them.

I uploaded on Megaupload and Rapidshare. It's on the Screw Loose Change video site.

chipmunk stew · 18th June 2006, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by EchoWars

There is sooooo much information here that it is difficult to comprehend....

I found JREF after few friends sent me a link to the LC video, saying "How could our govt. DO that to us???" My immediate reply, after wasting those hours of my life (that, not incidentally, I want back) watching that drivel, was "They didn't".

With the help of Google, I found a few facts for myself, and with the heated battle between the CT's and JREF, seems I couldn't miss a few hits to JREF. I then found the *.doc of Gravy's debunk, and sent it to my gullible friends. All three of them responded to me with some version of "I can't believe I fell for that BS".

There are some amazingly intellegent people here...far beyond my puny grey matter to match wits with. However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try.

Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website?

Color me pleased.

EW

Welcome, EchoWars!

Just when I started thinking "why do I even bother?" along you come to remind me. Color me pleased, too!

60hzxtl · 18th June 2006, 06:17 AM

Welcome, EchoWars;

Why do I bother? Because I don't want to see a genuine, captured bad guy get away, because this tripe is used at his trial in his defense, and some weak minded jurror thinks a missle that nobody saw was used against the Pentagon, or that CT was used to finish the destruction of the WTC.

Five people who I crossed paths with in my life died in that hole.

You never catch a boogie man, you just keep chasing. Once in a while you capture a bad guy, and bring him to justice.

Brainster · 18th June 2006, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

Does anyone have a link to a downloadable version of "Loose Change"? I'm doing an internet piece on copyright/press ethics and I want use that bloody thing as a warning example. But that means I actually have to see it a couple of times in order to get every infraction and being able to do a "before /after" on the quotes.
YouTube is a progressive download thingy, but I can't seem to locate the temp file it creates and I need something for posterity.......
Help?

You can download the Google Video here (you need to use the Google video player to play it).

Brainster · 18th June 2006, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Welcome, and thanks! You may be interested in my latest production, which I'm just announcing now. It's a sad and scary look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. actually believe the insane things they say.

Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF.
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105

If anyone wants to host this, feel free. These guys want exposure, and I plan on giving it to them.

Man, that opening bit with Dylan joking around with Jack Blood just reminds me of why I got so angry at Loose Change in the first place. I happened to see Version 1 and got po'ed at his mocking the victims when discussing the cellphone calls (which was toned down a bit in LCV2).

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

You can download the Google Video here (you need to use the Google video player to play it).

Me thinks me found a work-around. The original download file is merely a redirect thingy for the player. But if one were to, say, open that file in notepad instead and start looking for an url.......No that one would exploit such a security breach in google videos setup of cause........

FFed · 18th June 2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

Me thinks me found a work-around. The original download file is merely a redirect thingy for the player. But if one were to, say, open that file in notepad instead and start looking for an url.......No that one would exploit such a security breach in google videos setup of cause........

Just use this site, and you can download the file as an avi. Just paste in the link.

http://keepvid.com/

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 12:36 PM

Thanks, fed. That will probably come in hande in the future. For now, I've got 389 megs of dreck on my harddrive.....Eughh.....I'll probably have to format the thing and reinstall everything just to get rid of the violation my CPU is feeling right now......

60hzxtl · 18th June 2006, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

Thanks, fed. That will probably come in hande in the future. For now, I've got 389 megs of dreck on my harddrive.....Eughh.....I'll probably have to format the thing and reinstall everything just to get rid of the violation my CPU is feeling right now......

Now, now, don't blame the one and zero's - they can be rearranged later.

Not like its a bad tattoo or something.

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 12:57 PM

BTW: have This been posted yet?.

RandFan · 18th June 2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

BTW: have This been posted yet?.

I'm not sure but the film is back up on the web.

http://www.loosechange911.com/

It looks to me as if nothing has changed.

???

brodski · 18th June 2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

I'm not sure but the film is back up on the web.

http://www.loosechange911.com/

It looks to me as if nothing has changed.

???

no, you can no longer download LC2E from the site, it just points you to google video. I'm not sure why google allows a film which is the subject of copyright action to be hosted there though.

60hzxtl · 18th June 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

BTW: have This been posted yet?.

Atta boy Gravy!

". . . he counted 81 "errors of fact and instances of conjecture not supported by evidence, logical fallacies, uses of images that do not support the conclusions being drawn, and other flubs".

Lets hope that soon you can't say "Loose Change" without saying "81 errors of fact!"

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 01:25 PM

According to the article I posted, the google version wont be up much longer.....

Johnny Pixels · 18th June 2006, 01:30 PM

What about all the copies floating around on DVD etc? I volunteer to collect them all and destroy them in a controlled demolition.

brodski · 18th June 2006, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

According to the article I posted, the google version wont be up much longer.....

It would be great if true, but I'm skeptical. How long would it take for someone else to upload it.

The_Fire · 18th June 2006, 01:39 PM

Dear, *********** deities! That thing is still for sale! They just moved it off-site to a third party!

The idiots runnning the third-party
The sales site

ETA: How do I get in touch with the Naudets and their laywers?!

delphi_ote · 18th June 2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by The_Fire

Dear, *********** deities! That thing is still for sale! They just moved it off-site to a third party!

The idiots runnning the third-party
The sales site

ETA: How do I get in touch with the Naudets and their laywers?!

That is a bombshell if the lawyers don't already know about it. I'm trying to dig up their contact information right now. What a bunch of morons!

Shrinker · 18th June 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by delphi_ote

That is a bombshell if the lawyers don't already know about it. I'm trying to dig up their contact information right now. What a bunch of morons!

To be fair, we don't know exactly what settlement they made with the lawyers. They may now be paying royalties based on sales.

delphi_ote · 18th June 2006, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Shrinker

To be fair, we don't know exactly what settlement they made with the lawyers. They may now be paying royalties based on sales.

Well, no. We don't know anything about the settlement. Do we even know if there WAS a settlement?

realitybites · 18th June 2006, 05:03 PM

Just when I think the CTers' callousness has reached an all time high, they go and out-do themselves.

CptColumbo · 18th June 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by realitybites

Just when I think the CTers' callousness has reached an all time high, they go and out-do themselves.

http://www.neoramen.com/gallery/legowtc.jpg

Holy [rule 8] [rule 8] on a [rule 8]!

BTW welcome Echowars.

Johnny Pixels · 18th June 2006, 05:14 PM

They have no morals. They're on a quest for "the truth".

Why do they find it so outrageous that someone could hijack a plane with a boxcutter? There's a reason my dad would never let me touch his Stanley knife; because they're ***** sharp. Even a slash to the hand or arm would be incredibly painful, not to mention the face. You don't have to stab someone to death with a knife to stop them from attacking you.

MarkyX · 18th June 2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by CptColumbo

Holy [rule 8] [rule 8] on a [rule 8]!

BTW welcome Echowars.

I love how they mention in the first image about america having some amazing defense.

Newsflash idiots: The pilots didn't even have a god damn gun!

MarkyX · 18th June 2006, 05:37 PM

I also might know the artist of that comic. Lemme use my webcomic powers to find out (FREE PLUG: http://www.chroniclesofgaras.com)

EDIT: Doh, the link is already in the image properties, but it is someone who I knew in the past.

YET ANOTHER EDIT: This ****ers do not know about geeks. They would never buy into this madness they call the truth. I'm involved in numerous gamer/anime communities and the only chance they have is freaking Gaia Online (which is the closet you get to teenage closet yaoi freaks) or Furries.

ANOTHER EDIT: Oh **** that idiot artist is actually PART of the 9/11 truth. The idiot must be really seeking attention because his webcomic sucks.

17th June 2006, 04:26 PM	#3161
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 15,334	Originally Posted by steve s They do if they know they only have a few days left to live. That's like saying "Real priests don't molest kids." It happens. Steve S. Q. Why should you always invite TWO Baptists to your fishing trip? A. If you invite only one, he'll drink all your beer.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

17th June 2006, 05:03 PM	#3162
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 7,553	Piloting a jetliner Originally Posted by azazal I will admit I AM NOT A PILOT, however, my father used to own and fly an old Piper Tri-Pacer. An uncle of mine has had his pilot's license for years. He described the "flying" part of flying as "hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror." Professional airline pilots mostly make their money at take-off and landing. While in the air ... well, another quote: "A modern jetliner can be flown by a pilot and a dog. The pilot's job is to feed the dog. The dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches the controls." (I heard that one on PBS's NOVA.)
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)

17th June 2006, 05:29 PM	#3163
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,157	Looser alert in another board. http://shetlink.com/modules.php?name...&p=14961#14961
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,157

17th June 2006, 06:02 PM	#3164
Axiom_Blade Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,979	I particularly enjoyed this post, MarkyX. Originally Posted by Awake the Sheep I wouldn't hang with these MORONS ever. They are the MODERN DAY UNCLE TOM's or shall I call you the UNCLE SAM BOOTLICKERS. Yes boss, of course boss we know those evil Arabs did it. No I believe you...cause you told me boss. Originally Posted by Awake the Sheep I wouldn't hang with these MORONS ever. Ah, if only that were the truth!
Axiom_Blade Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,979

17th June 2006, 06:13 PM	#3165
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,157	OneSidedCookie is pwning them. CTs can never debate on the topic. They just rant on and on.
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,157

17th June 2006, 07:17 PM	#3166
Axiom_Blade Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,979	I love this. Originally Posted by OPERATION NORTHWOODS LOLOLOL....wtc7???? dude are you serious????? dont go there....it was a controled demolision, according to its owner... WOW. That's a mighty shallow gene pool!
Axiom_Blade Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,979

17th June 2006, 09:18 PM	#3167
realitybites Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,066	Originally Posted by bob_kark I think it has more to do with a growing need for teen melodrama than anything else. If you'll notice, as the ration of teen dramas to teen shows in general increases, the need for melodrama follows. I'll give ya' that one Bob, but unfortunately, that doesn't explain the elder kooks. Teens? Sure. We all know the need for rebellion is present to some extent in every teenager. Normally they take it out on mom or dad. Maybe the local cops if they're feeling particularly ornery. But what could be more rebellious, more "rage against the machine", than to confront ones own government?

17th June 2006, 11:14 PM	#3168
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 44,286	Originally Posted by Stellafane Does anyone else see a parallel here with the anti-abortion movement? At the start, it was led by arguably reasonable people. But then they began to argue that a fetus is the same as a human, thus abortion = murder. They probably didn't believe this entirely, but it made for emphatic and dramatic rhetoric. Problem is, less tightly wrapped followers took such statements literally, and started bombing clinics and shooting doctors to stop the "murders." I wonder if the 9/11 CT movement is heading in the same direction. First you have goofs like Dylan Avery just "asking questions." (That he doesn't take his work very seriously is evidenced by his statement that he doesn't even think Bush should go to jail, despite creating a film that claims he's a mass murderer.) Now LC is attracting a few lost souls, looking for relevance and meaning in their lives. I fear that even as we speak, one or more of them is hatching some wild plan in their fevered mind, one that calls for actual violence against those identified as supporting the 9/11 conspiracy, in the spirit of bringing the person "to justice." [Emphasis added] Important points, Stellafane. I agree that this is a fear that drives many of us to speak up about the madness of the 'movement'. At first I was driven by wanting to defend the already-vulnerable victims' families and friends against the (not always obviously) baseless allegations of the conspiracy theorists, but I have subsequently become worried, after seeing the 'truthers'' vehemence and dogmatism, that someone is going to get hurt. As yet, though, no one person has been named as the mastermind of the 'cover-up', which is some consolation. Actually, I'm sure this conspiracy theory has probably hurt people already, in the sense that some people may be too paranoid to leave the house and go to work; families and friends are worried about about people; friendships have been lost.

18th June 2006, 12:21 AM	#3169
EchoWars Student Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 25	There is sooooo much information here that it is difficult to comprehend.... I found JREF after few friends sent me a link to the LC video, saying "How could our govt. DO that to us???" My immediate reply, after wasting those hours of my life (that, not incidentally, I want back) watching that drivel, was "They didn't". With the help of Google, I found a few facts for myself, and with the heated battle between the CT's and JREF, seems I couldn't miss a few hits to JREF. I then found the *.doc of Gravy's debunk, and sent it to my gullible friends. All three of them responded to me with some version of "I can't believe I fell for that BS". There are some amazingly intellegent people here...far beyond my puny grey matter to match wits with. However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try. Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website? Color me pleased. EW
EchoWars Student Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 25

18th June 2006, 01:22 AM	#3170
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 60,135	Originally Posted by EchoWars There is sooooo much information here that it is difficult to comprehend.... I found JREF after few friends sent me a link to the LC video, saying "How could our govt. DO that to us???" My immediate reply, after wasting those hours of my life (that, not incidentally, I want back) watching that drivel, was "They didn't". With the help of Google, I found a few facts for myself, and with the heated battle between the CT's and JREF, seems I couldn't miss a few hits to JREF. I then found the *.doc of Gravy's debunk, and sent it to my gullible friends. All three of them responded to me with some version of "I can't believe I fell for that BS". There are some amazingly intellegent people here...far beyond my puny grey matter to match wits with. However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try. Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website? Color me pleased. EW Welcome to the forum. Many of the members here tower over me in intellect. You don't need to be a genius to debate and contribute. 1.) Educate yourself as much as you can (learn both sides of the argument) 2.) Pick your battles. If you are fuzzy in an area try not to step into the fray even if your opponent is a few bricks short of a load. 3.) If you don't already understand proper debating techniques and how to make and spot arguments and how to avoid fallacy then check out Logic & Fallacies. Pay special attention to the argument clinic (Monty Python Sketch). Here is the video version. If you know all of this then ignore it. RandFan
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 60,135	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch?

18th June 2006, 03:05 AM	#3171
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,078	Originally Posted by EchoWars However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try. Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website? Color me pleased. EW Welcome, and thanks! You may be interested in my latest production, which I'm just announcing now. It's a sad and scary look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. actually believe the insane things they say. Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF. http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105 If anyone wants to host this, feel free. These guys want exposure, and I plan on giving it to them.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

18th June 2006, 04:10 AM	#3172
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	Does anyone have a link to a downloadable version of "Loose Change"? I'm doing an internet piece on copyright/press ethics and I want use that bloody thing as a warning example. But that means I actually have to see it a couple of times in order to get every infraction and being able to do a "before /after" on the quotes. YouTube is a progressive download thingy, but I can't seem to locate the temp file it creates and I need something for posterity....... Help?
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 04:22 AM	#3173
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697	Originally Posted by The_Fire But that means I actually have to see it a couple of times in order to get every infraction and being able to do a "before /after" on the quotes. Help? Oddly enough, even their website link no longer works (Thank you Naudet Bros.!) http://www.loosechange911.com/ You have my sympathy having to see it - and see it again. There are plenty of copies to be had out there, (The Film So Good We Have To Give It Away!) you just have to hold your nose about the way you acquire it. The good news is, that we are a crafty bunch around here. I'm certain the solution is around the corner - and I am NOT psychic.
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697

18th June 2006, 04:31 AM	#3174
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	Originally Posted by 60hzxtl Oddly enough, even their website link no longer works (Thank you Naudet Bros.!) http://www.loosechange911.com/ Gloating laugh. I'm liking the Naudets more and more by the second. Quote: You have my sympathy having to see it - and see it again. I know. My braincells are already screaming in panic....I wonder if a tinfoil hat can do the trick.... Quote: There are plenty of copies to be had out there, (The Film So Good We Have To Give It Away!) you just have to hold your nose about the way you acquire it. Let me guess: Just go by the smell of bovine excrements? Quote: The good news is, that we are a crafty bunch around here. I'm certain the solution is around the corner - and I am NOT psychic. That's what I'm hoping.....
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 04:43 AM	#3175
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697	Originally Posted by The_Fire I know. My braincells are already screaming in panic....I wonder if a tinfoil hat can do the trick.... ... Now there is something I can help with. . . http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697

18th June 2006, 04:59 AM	#3176
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,157	Originally Posted by Gravy Welcome, and thanks! You may be interested in my latest production, which I'm just announcing now. It's a sad and scary look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. actually believe the insane things they say. Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF. http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105 If anyone wants to host this, feel free. These guys want exposure, and I plan on giving it to them. I uploaded on Megaupload and Rapidshare. It's on the Screw Loose Change video site.
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,157

18th June 2006, 06:02 AM	#3177
chipmunk stew Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,448	Originally Posted by EchoWars There is sooooo much information here that it is difficult to comprehend.... I found JREF after few friends sent me a link to the LC video, saying "How could our govt. DO that to us???" My immediate reply, after wasting those hours of my life (that, not incidentally, I want back) watching that drivel, was "They didn't". With the help of Google, I found a few facts for myself, and with the heated battle between the CT's and JREF, seems I couldn't miss a few hits to JREF. I then found the *.doc of Gravy's debunk, and sent it to my gullible friends. All three of them responded to me with some version of "I can't believe I fell for that BS". There are some amazingly intellegent people here...far beyond my puny grey matter to match wits with. However, JREF has found a ardent fan and supporter in myself, and if I can possibly contribute something despite my ignorance on many subjects, I'd love to try. Gravy, you rock dude. So does JREF. Why did it take so long to find this website? Color me pleased. EW Welcome, EchoWars! Just when I started thinking "why do I even bother?" along you come to remind me. Color me pleased, too!

18th June 2006, 06:17 AM	#3178
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697	Welcome, EchoWars; Why do I bother? Because I don't want to see a genuine, captured bad guy get away, because this tripe is used at his trial in his defense, and some weak minded jurror thinks a missle that nobody saw was used against the Pentagon, or that CT was used to finish the destruction of the WTC. Five people who I crossed paths with in my life died in that hole. You never catch a boogie man, you just keep chasing. Once in a while you capture a bad guy, and bring him to justice.
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697

18th June 2006, 09:04 AM	#3179
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 20,310	Originally Posted by The_Fire Does anyone have a link to a downloadable version of "Loose Change"? I'm doing an internet piece on copyright/press ethics and I want use that bloody thing as a warning example. But that means I actually have to see it a couple of times in order to get every infraction and being able to do a "before /after" on the quotes. YouTube is a progressive download thingy, but I can't seem to locate the temp file it creates and I need something for posterity....... Help? You can download the Google Video here (you need to use the Google video player to play it).

18th June 2006, 09:19 AM	#3180
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 20,310	Originally Posted by Gravy Welcome, and thanks! You may be interested in my latest production, which I'm just announcing now. It's a sad and scary look at what the creators of "Loose Change" actually say during public interviews. Unfortunately, it looks like Dylan Avery & co. actually believe the insane things they say. Go here to download the 3.2 Mb PDF. http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=123105 If anyone wants to host this, feel free. These guys want exposure, and I plan on giving it to them. Man, that opening bit with Dylan joking around with Jack Blood just reminds me of why I got so angry at Loose Change in the first place. I happened to see Version 1 and got po'ed at his mocking the victims when discussing the cellphone calls (which was toned down a bit in LCV2).

18th June 2006, 10:54 AM	#3181
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	Originally Posted by Brainster You can download the Google Video here (you need to use the Google video player to play it). Me thinks me found a work-around. The original download file is merely a redirect thingy for the player. But if one were to, say, open that file in notepad instead and start looking for an url.......No that one would exploit such a security breach in google videos setup of cause........
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 12:29 PM	#3182
FFed Muse Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 990	Originally Posted by The_Fire Me thinks me found a work-around. The original download file is merely a redirect thingy for the player. But if one were to, say, open that file in notepad instead and start looking for an url.......No that one would exploit such a security breach in google videos setup of cause........ Just use this site, and you can download the file as an avi. Just paste in the link. http://keepvid.com/

18th June 2006, 12:36 PM	#3183
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	Thanks, fed. That will probably come in hande in the future. For now, I've got 389 megs of dreck on my harddrive.....Eughh.....I'll probably have to format the thing and reinstall everything just to get rid of the violation my CPU is feeling right now......
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 12:39 PM	#3184
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697	Originally Posted by The_Fire Thanks, fed. That will probably come in hande in the future. For now, I've got 389 megs of dreck on my harddrive.....Eughh.....I'll probably have to format the thing and reinstall everything just to get rid of the violation my CPU is feeling right now...... Now, now, don't blame the one and zero's - they can be rearranged later. Not like its a bad tattoo or something.
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697

18th June 2006, 12:57 PM	#3185
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	BTW: have This been posted yet?.
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 01:10 PM	#3186
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 60,135	Originally Posted by The_Fire BTW: have This been posted yet?. I'm not sure but the film is back up on the web. http://www.loosechange911.com/ It looks to me as if nothing has changed. ???
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 60,135	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch?

18th June 2006, 01:17 PM	#3187
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,516	Originally Posted by RandFan I'm not sure but the film is back up on the web. http://www.loosechange911.com/ It looks to me as if nothing has changed. ??? no, you can no longer download LC2E from the site, it just points you to google video. I'm not sure why google allows a film which is the subject of copyright action to be hosted there though.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,516

18th June 2006, 01:25 PM	#3188
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697	Originally Posted by The_Fire BTW: have This been posted yet?. Atta boy Gravy! ". . . he counted 81 "errors of fact and instances of conjecture not supported by evidence, logical fallacies, uses of images that do not support the conclusions being drawn, and other flubs". Lets hope that soon you can't say "Loose Change" without saying "81 errors of fact!"
60hzxtl Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 697

18th June 2006, 01:25 PM	#3189
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	According to the article I posted, the google version wont be up much longer.....
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 01:30 PM	#3190
Johnny Pixels Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,389	What about all the copies floating around on DVD etc? I volunteer to collect them all and destroy them in a controlled demolition.

18th June 2006, 01:37 PM	#3191
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,516	Originally Posted by The_Fire According to the article I posted, the google version wont be up much longer..... It would be great if true, but I'm skeptical. How long would it take for someone else to upload it.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,516

18th June 2006, 01:39 PM	#3192
The_Fire Unimpressed Female Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: 8th level of Hell - Maleborgia Posts: 3,267	Dear, *********** deities! That thing is still for sale! They just moved it off-site to a third party! The idiots runnning the third-party The sales site ETA: How do I get in touch with the Naudets and their laywers?!
	__________________ If anyone told you that I'm a nice person, they were either from a different level of existance, lying through their teeth or mentally instable. "We? That better be you and that invisible aardwarck in your pocket you are talking about, because I KNOW you are not stupid enough to open a giant can of whoop ass by claiming you know what I think." Stop Sylvia Browne

18th June 2006, 03:02 PM	#3193
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994	Originally Posted by The_Fire Dear, *********** deities! That thing is still for sale! They just moved it off-site to a third party! The idiots runnning the third-party The sales site ETA: How do I get in touch with the Naudets and their laywers?! That is a bombshell if the lawyers don't already know about it. I'm trying to dig up their contact information right now. What a bunch of morons!
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994

18th June 2006, 03:06 PM	#3194
Shrinker Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,221	Originally Posted by delphi_ote That is a bombshell if the lawyers don't already know about it. I'm trying to dig up their contact information right now. What a bunch of morons! To be fair, we don't know exactly what settlement they made with the lawyers. They may now be paying royalties based on sales.

18th June 2006, 03:30 PM	#3195
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994	Originally Posted by Shrinker To be fair, we don't know exactly what settlement they made with the lawyers. They may now be paying royalties based on sales. Well, no. We don't know anything about the settlement. Do we even know if there WAS a settlement?
delphi_ote Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,994