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Old 30th July 2006, 03:32 PM   #1
LibraryLady
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Definitions--split from Why do people hate Jews

It is amazing how simple words have been twisted by the extreme and not so extreme right wing. And yes, the left wing has been guilty of this as well. Take this exchange in the split-from thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio :
I have never seen anyone view mexican * IMMIGRANTS* this way, and I live in a border state

Perhaps like the media you are tyring to mix criminal tresspasser with immigrant?
Another example is the word "liberal."

From dictionary.com:

Quote:
lib·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.
And yet, this has become a dirty word just as "immigrant" has.

Sometimes the change in words can be beneficial--"gay" instead of pejoratives, for example. But for the most part, unless we all agree on the common definitions, communication becomes nearly impossible. Unlike Humpty Dumpty, we need to let the words be the master.

End of rant. Sorry if I've bored you.
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Old 30th July 2006, 03:39 PM   #2
bob_kark
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Originally Posted by LibraryLady View Post
It is amazing how simple words have been twisted by the extreme and not so extreme right wing. And yes, the left wing has been guilty of this as well. Take this exchange in the split-from thread:



Another example is the word "liberal."

From dictionary.com:



And yet, this has become a dirty word just as "immigrant" has.

Sometimes the change in words can be beneficial--"gay" instead of pejoratives, for example. But for the most part, unless we all agree on the common definitions, communication becomes nearly impossible. Unlike Humpty Dumpty, we need to let the words be the master.

End of rant. Sorry if I've bored you.
It only becomes a dirty word if you allow them to make it so. Personally, I would like to see Pipeline Audio make the word immigrant a positive term rather than attempting to redefine his own position. I think he should feel proud of his Mexican heritage as well as his American citizenship. Remember, nearly everyone in the US is an immigrant or has an ancestor who was once an immigrant as well. If you really want to get technical, even American Indians originally immigrated from Asia.

I also believe that if someone calls you a liberal, you should be proud of that fact. Liberalism has always had in important role in our country. In fact, the liberal viewpoint may be more important now than ever.
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Old 30th July 2006, 03:52 PM   #3
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Immigrant IS a positive term it is one part of what makes this country so great!

It is also an affirmation of the greatness of the country that there ARE immigrants (as in, people are WANTING to come here!)

I object to what some of the media has done, to mix immigrant in with criminal invader

these are two TOTALLY different things

Those who become richer by exploiting illegal labor do their damndest to stick them in with immigrants in order to cloud the issue and

FALSELY

Imply that those against criminal invaders are against immigrants

COme take a good look down here, you will find that despite the media's complacency or outright lying to say immigrants and criminal invaders are the same thing, it is the RESIDENT hispanic population here that is screaming the loudest against illegal immigration

they are the ones being hurt more than anyone else and they know it and are making a stink about it

The most interesting thng to me is that it isnt a left or right issue

both left and right make money off of this crime and suffering

we got a righty president who kisses their ass

we got lefty governor Janet come lately who kisses their ass

the *people* both left and right, have other things to say on the issue

Lefties are pissed because there is no money left for education, health care or social programs

righties are pissed because their businesses cant compete with criminals who hire criminal labor

both parties are holding hands and screwing the people on this one
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Old 31st July 2006, 11:43 AM   #4
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I participated in the original thread and noticed this exchange between pipelineaudio and bob_kark.

My original reaction was that it was one of the sillier exchanges that I had seen on JREF.

I went back and reread the exchange and still see it as pretty silly.

If we had a category for silliest analogy I would have nominated this effort by pipelineaudio:
Quote:
Well if we go by that then, if you ever had sex I call you a rapist
I am afraid I still don't understand pipelineaudio's position here. On the surface it seems that there isn't a substantive different between he and bob_kark's views with regard to immigration, but before I push the submit button I think I'll go back and try once more to understand their respective views.

OK, I'm back. So I get this from the exchange. pipeline audio thinks that people who immigrate illegally should not be called immigrants because that is an insult to the legal immigrants. pipelineaudio also doesn't think there are people who resent legal immigrants.

Hmm, assuming I've got this right, it seems like pipelineaudio has a personal definition of the word immigrant and he objects to the fact that bob_kark doesn't use it. It also seems that pipelineaudio sees the US population as completely appreciative of all immigration as long as it's legal.

So on a little more reflection of the subject, I now see that there are some substantive differences between bob_kark's views and pipelineaudio's and it looks to this humble observer that pipelineaudio is just wrong in this dispute.

ETA: That is not to say that I still don't think this was a pretty silly exchange. I do. Especially because on the underlying substance of the issue I suspect that bob_kark and pipelineaudio are pretty much in agreement.

Last edited by davefoc; 31st July 2006 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 31st July 2006, 11:50 AM   #5
pipelineaudio
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I am technically wrong

I just object to the way the media mixes up legal and illegal immigration and implies that if you are against illegal immigration you are against legal immigration

they are as different as sex and rape

yes all B is A but not all A is B

Obviously the media's obfuscation is working
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