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Old 2nd August 2006, 03:36 PM   #1
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Cutting Edge: My Kid's Psychic...indigo children reach UK...

As per title - those in the UK get to watch a programme on psychic (and apparently indigo) kids on Channel 4's cutting edge next week (see http://worldofwonder.net/productions..._psychic.wow25)
Does not look good, but I guess I might be pleasantly surprised
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Old 2nd August 2006, 04:15 PM   #2
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Im sorry....I wont be a fan of this show. If you look up traits of someone who suffers NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) you will see where this phenomenal intuition may come from.

AKA Superman Syndrome. We have all met those people who truely feel they are above and beyond everyone else in the world. I would LOVE to see Dr.Phil talk to these kids... im not even a big fan of Dr.Phil lol
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Old 2nd August 2006, 04:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jon View Post
As per title - those in the UK get to watch a programme on psychic (and apparently indigo) kids on Channel 4's cutting edge next week (see http://worldofwonder.net/productions..._psychic.wow25)
Does not look good, but I guess I might be pleasantly surprised
It'll be interesting to see whether they end up as new Turoffs/Mannings or in care with personality disorders.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 03:17 AM   #4
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yeah, I'm not sure what a 'healthy' response is in a kid whose parents spout this BS.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 05:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jon View Post
Does not look good, but I guess I might be pleasantly surprised
I think you may well be surprised. Cutting Edge is a very respectable and intelligent documentary strand, and I very, very much doubt that the programme will be credulous. In fact, if it turns out to be, I agree to eat my socks.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 05:23 AM   #6
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Journalist Jon Ronson has posted that he'll have a piece published in Saturday's Guardian about the Indigos.
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Old 3rd August 2006, 09:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch View Post
I think you may well be surprised. Cutting Edge is a very respectable and intelligent documentary strand, and I very, very much doubt that the programme will be credulous. In fact, if it turns out to be, I agree to eat my socks.
Hope you're right - I know cutting edge has done some really good stuff. Ch4 does seem to be going more done the credulous route (memories passed on with organ transplants, etc...)

So, if the programme does suck, are we talking dirty or clean socks
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Old 4th August 2006, 02:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jon View Post
Hope you're right - I know cutting edge has done some really good stuff. Ch4 does seem to be going more done the credulous route (memories passed on with organ transplants, etc...)

So, if the programme does suck, are we talking dirty or clean socks
Clean, of course! What do you take me for?
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Old 5th August 2006, 01:14 AM   #9
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The chosen ones

The chosen ones Nikki Harwood believes her daughter is a super-evolved, psychic being with powers to heal the world. And she's not the only one. Jon Ronson meets the Indigo kids

Saturday August 5, 2006
The Guardian

Eight-year-old Oliver Banks thinks he sees dead people. Recently he thought he saw a little girl with black hair climb over their garden fence in Harrow, Middlesex. Then, as he watched, she vanished. When Oliver was three he was at a friend's house, on top of the climbing frame, when he suddenly started yelling "Train!" He was pointing over the fence to the adjacent field. It turned out that, generations earlier, a railway line had passed through the field, exactly where he was pointing.

Oliver's mother, Simone, was at her wits' end. Last summer, at a party, she told her work colleagues about Oliver's symptoms. He wasn't concentrating at school. He couldn't sit still. Plus, he'd had a brain scan and they'd found all this unusual electrical activity. And then there were the visions of people who weren't there. Maybe he had attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)?
At that moment, a woman standing nearby interrupted. She introduced herself as Dr Munchie (her real name is Manjir Samanta-Laughton). She said she couldn't help but eavesdrop on Simone's conversation. She was, she said, a qualified GP.

"Well, then," Simone replied, "do you think Oliver has ADHD?"

Dr Munchie said no. She said it sounded very much like Oliver was in fact a highly evolved Indigo child - a divine being with enormously heightened spiritual wisdom and psychic powers. Oliver couldn't concentrate, she explained, because he was being distracted by genuine psychic experiences. She said Indigo children were springing up all over the world, all at once, unconnected to one another. There were tens of thousands of them, in every country. And their parents weren't all new age hippies. They were perfectly ordinary families who were realising how super-evolved and psychic their children were. This was a global phenomenon. Soon the Indigo children would rise up and heal the planet.

Perhaps, Dr Munchie said, given this new diagnosis, Simone and Oliver might like to attend an Indigo children meeting at the Moat House Hotel in Bedford? Channel 4 was going to be there. Maybe the TV crew could follow Oliver about?

Simone was desperate for answers. She wasn't going to close off any avenue. So that's how she and Oliver ended up appearing in the forthcoming C4 documentary My Kid's Psychic.

It is a touching but badly named programme. Oliver isn't psychic. He has ADHD. I telephone Simone after watching a tape of the programme. She tells me he's responding well to cod liver oil. In the documentary, Simone looks bewildered to be at the Indigo conference, which seems like an incongruous mix of hippies and spiritualists and normal but frazzled families like hers.

"That woman, Dr Munchie, seemed to be running it," Simone says. "Some of the people there were really away with the fairies. Most of them were. 'I see this and I see that.' One man was saying his children were 'the best people ever'. I don't want my child being called an Indigo child, thank you very much."

Still, Simone doesn't regret appearing in the programme: "It really helped Oliver enormously to learn that other people see things."

I'm curious to know more about the Indigo children - this apparently vast, underground movement. Although Indigos say they communicate telepathically, they also communicate via internet forums, such as Indigos Unplugged, which is where I discover a 21-question quiz: "Is Your Child an Indigo?"

I decide to take it on behalf of my seven-year-old, Joel.

"Does your child have difficulty with discipline and authority?"

Yes.

"Does your child refuse to do certain things they are told to do?"

Yes, he bloody well does.

"Does your child get frustrated with systems that don't require creative thought [such as spelling and times tables]?"

Yes. This is getting eerie.

"Does your child display symptoms of attention deficit disorder?"

No.

"Is your child very talented (may be identified as gifted)?"

Of course!

"Does your child have very old, deep, wise-looking eyes?"

No.

"If you have more than 15 yes answers," it says at the bottom, "your child is almost definitely Indigo." Joel has 16 yes answers.

"Realise that if you are the parent of one of these spirits you have been given a wonderful, marvellous gift! Feel honoured that they have chosen you and help them develop to their fullest Indigo potential."

I decide not to tell Joel that I'm honoured he's chosen me. It might turn him into a nightmare.

I track down Dr Munchie. She lives in Derbyshire. I call her. She sounds very nice. She says it was the American author Lee Carroll who first identified the Indigos in his 1999 book, The Indigo Children: the New Kids Have Arrived. The book sold 250,000 copies. Word spread, to Ipswich among other places, where she was working as a GP within the government's Sure Start programme.

"Sure Start is designed to give underprivileged children the best start in life," Dr Munchie explains. "One mum came in talking about it. And I immediately saw how important it was."

Even though Dr Munchie is a GP - that most pragmatic of professions - she's always been secretly spiritual, ever since she had a "kundalini experience" while doing yoga during her medical school years. (A kundalini experience is a spiritual awakening that sometimes occurs during yoga.) And that's how she became an Indigo organiser.

But, she says, I happen to be looking at the movement during a somewhat rocky period for them.

"There have been lots of reports of parents saying to teachers, 'You can't discipline my child. She's an Indigo,'" Dr Munchie says. "So it's all a bit controversial at the moment."

"Do you sometimes think 'What have I helped to unleash?'" I ask her.

She replies that, in fact, she sees herself as a moderate force in the movement: "For instance, lots of people think all children who have ADHD are Indigo children. I just think some are."

My guess is that the weird success of the Indigo movement is a result of a growing public dissatisfaction with the pharmaceutical industry. It's certainly true in the case of Simone, Oliver's mum. Simone told me that all the doctors ever really wanted to do with Oliver was dope him up with Ritalin.

"Ritalin didn't help him," Simone told me. Then she added, sharply: "All it did was keep him quiet."

No wonder that when Dr Munchie approached Simone at that party she was open to any idea, however nutty-sounding.

Novartis, the drug company that manufactures Ritalin, says that in 2002, 208,000 doses of Ritalin were prescribed in the UK. That's up from 158,000 in 1999, which was up from 127,000 in 1998, which was up from a paltry 92,000 in 1997.

I call Martin Westwell, deputy director of the Oxford University thinktank the Institute for the Future of the Mind. I tell him about these statistics.

"You've got two kids in a class," he explains. "One has ADHD. For that kid, Ritalin is absolutely appropriate. It turns their life around. The other kid is showing a bit of hyperactivity. That kid's parents see the drug working on the other kid. So they go to their GP ..." Martin pauses. "In some ways there's a benefit to being diagnosed with ADHD," he says. "You get a statement of special needs. You get extra help in class ..."

And this, he says, is how the culture of over-diagnosis, and over-prescription of Ritalin-type drugs has come to be. Nowadays, one or two children in every classroom across the US are on medication for ADHD, and things are going this way in the UK, too.

Indigo believers look at the statistics in another way. They say it is proof of an unprecedented psychic phenomenon.

On Friday night I attend a meeting of Indigo children in the basement of a Spiritualist church in the suburbs of Chatham, Kent. The organiser is the medium Nikki Harwood, who also features in the Channel 4 documentary. (Nikki's daughter Heather is Indigo.) Nikki picks me up at Chatham station.

"There have been reports of Indigo children trying to commit suicide - they're so ultra-sensitive to feelings," Nikki tells me en route in her people carrier. "Imagine having the thoughts and feelings of everyone around you in your head. One thing I teach them is how to switch off, so they can have a childhood." Nikki pauses, and adds: "In an ideal world, Indigo children would be schooled separately."

We pull up outside the church. Hoodies slouch around on nearby street corners. Inside, 11 Indigo children sit in a circle.

"One kid here," Nikki whispers to me, "his dad is a social worker."

The youngest here is seven. The oldest is 18. His name is Shane. He's about to join the army.

"That doesn't sound very Indigo," I say.

"Oh it is," Nikki replies. "Indigos need structure."

And then the evening begins, with 15 minutes of boring meditation.

"Allow your angel wings to open," Nikki tells them, etc, and I think: "I came all the way for this? Meditation?"

But then it gets a lot more interesting.

"I was with a baby the other day," Nikki informs the class. "I said 'Hello sweetheart' with my thoughts. The baby looked at me shocked as if to say, 'How did you know we communicate with each other using our thoughts?'"

The Indigo kids smile and nod. Indigo organisers like Nikki and Dr Munchie believe we're all born with these powers. The difference is that the Indigo children don't forget how to use them.

Then Nikki produces a number of blindfolds. She puts them over the eyes of half the children, and instructs them to walk from one end of the room to the other.

The idea is for the un-blindfolded kids to telepathically communicate to the blindfolded ones where the tables and chairs and pillars are. Nikki says this is half an exercise in telepathy and half an exercise in eradicating fear.

"Part of the reason why you are here," she tells the children - and by "here" she means put on this planet as part of a super-evolved Indigo species - "is to teach the grown-ups not to feel fear."

The children nod. And the exercise in telepathy begins.

And it gives me no pleasure to say this, but blindfolded children immediately start walking into chairs, into pillars, into tables.

"You're not listening, Zoe!" shouts Nikki at one point, just after Zoe has collided with a chair. "We were [telepathically] saying 'Stop!'"

"I can't hear!" says Zoe.

Still, these children are having far more fun learning about their religion than most children do.

I wander down to the front of the hall. Children's drawings are tacked up on a notice board - drawings of past lives.

"I had people that waited on me," one girl has written next to her drawing of a princess. "I was kind but strict. Very rich, such as royalty."

"There's one girl here," Nikki points out a little girl called Emily, "who had a real fear of being starved to death."

Lianne, Emily's mother, comes over to join us.

"She used to hide food all over the house," Lianne says.

"Anyway," Nikki says, "we regressed her, and in the past life she'd been locked in a room by her mum and starved to death."

"Emily is much better now," Lianne says, "since she started coming here."

Lianne says - like many parents of Indigo children - she wasn't in the least bit new age before the family began attending Indigo meetings. She was perfectly ordinary and sceptical. She heard about the Indigo movement through word of mouth. It seemed to answer the questions she had about her daughter's behaviour. And she's very glad she came.

Nikki says Emily happens to be "the most Indigo person here, apart from my own daughter. Emily will go into the bathroom and see dead people. She sees them walking around the house. It used to terrify her. Will I introduce you to her?"

Emily is 13. She seems like a sweet, ordinary teenage girl. She offers to do a tarot reading for me.

"Something is holding you back," she says. "Tying you down. You don't look very happy."

"I'm fine," I think.

"You're a little goldfish," says Emily. "Your dream is to turn into a big rainbow fish. It'll be a bumpy ride, but you'll get there. Just don't be scared. You're Paula Radcliffe. You just don't think you are."

Earlier this year, the Dallas Observer ran an article about Indigo children.

One eight-year-old was asked if he was Indigo. The boy replied: "I'm an avatar. I can recognise the four elements of earth, wind, water and fire."

The journalist was impressed.

After the article ran, several readers wrote in to inform the newspaper of the Nickelodeon show Avatar: the Last Airbender. In the cartoon, Avatar has the power to bend earth, wind, water and fire. The Dallas Observer later admitted it felt embarrassed about the mistake.

When the Indigo meeting is over, Nikki gives me a lift back to the station.

"Does it freak the children out to be told they're super-evolved chosen ones?" I ask her.

"They were feeling it anyway," Nikki replies.

We drive on in silence for a moment.

"I've been police-checked," Nikki says, suddenly. "Another medium called the police on me. I've been accused of emotionally damaging the children."

"And what did the police do when they came?" I ask.

"They laughed," Nikki says. Then she pauses, and adds: "They told me they wanted to bring their own children here."

Maybe - I think - they were just saying that to be polite. Or maybe they really meant it.

· Cutting Edge: My Kid's Psychic is on Monday at 9pm on Channel 4

http://society.guardian.co.uk/childr...837347,00.html

Last edited by Lisa Simpson; 7th August 2006 at 07:07 AM. Reason: To add link
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Old 5th August 2006, 03:34 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jonronson View Post
Emily is 13. She seems like a sweet, ordinary teenage girl. She offers to do a tarot reading for me.
Start em young!
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Old 7th August 2006, 04:18 AM   #11
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The programme is on tonight at 9pm, Channel 4
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Old 7th August 2006, 05:51 AM   #12
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Ouch!

Daily Mirror, Mon7Aug06
"Not a lot of sense
Pick of the day: Cutting Edge: My Child's Psychic
C4, 9pm
A more accurate title for this documentary would be: My Mother's A Loon. But I suppose you can't blame Channel 4 for going with the catchier option.
Heather's mum Nicola is convinced her 15-year-old daughter is telepathic and has healing powers.
"I wouldn't like to say my powers will become as strong as Jesus because he was like the ultimate healer," says Heather modestly.
Now, being psychic is a lot more interesting than not being psychic so I was prepared to go along with this, until it got to the bit about the American new-agers who've decided humans are going through a big evolutionary shift and children like Heather are a brand new species.
Nicola has a tear in her eye as Heather uses her extra-sensory powers to deduce that someone is happy just because they're smiling.
Meanwhile Simone is worried that her son Oliver who's been diagnosed with ADHD may actually just be distracted by his psychic visions.
Oliver sees dead people, we're told. Er, not in this programme he doesn't."
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Old 7th August 2006, 05:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by jonronson View Post
Saturday August 5, 2006
The Guardian
Thanks for posting the article, Jonronson.

Amazing, and scary. A cult in the making?

I wonder where all of this will leave the Indigo children themselves. The guy joining the army might not have a great time if he starts to tell everyone all about how special he is. I wonder what the eventual effect of essentially excusing and encouraging such maladaptive or antisocial behaviour by reframing as being "highly evolved". The repositioning of the parents as inferior beings, and the removal presumably of their ability to impose structure and discipline, is worrying.

Like all cults, the Indigo movement preys on those who are desperate (I'm on a child clinical psychology placement right now, and I can tell you it's no fun to have a child with ADHD). And yes, ritalin is prescribed a lot, but carefully, by trained professionals, and any benefit is closely monitored. I think it's important to point out that ritalin is not a sedative, but a stimulant with an ostensibly paradoxical effect in people with ADHD - 'doped up' is not really a good way to put it, though as with any drug there is the possibility of side effects.

Anyway, at root the Indigo movement seems little different to those families who appear on documentaries about reincarnation: proud parents who like to believe their offspring is 'special', and who inadvertently invent and encourage stories which demonstrate this. It's just that the Indigo thing seems to be rather more organised, with a few extra 'hooks' - not least the much nicer (but less true) interpretation of a child's emotional and behavioural problems as a superiority.

Looking forward to the documentary.
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Old 7th August 2006, 06:59 AM   #14
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I've got a question, why do these people that think some kids have psychic powers think of them as "more evolved"? Which I assume they mean as superior. From what I've heard about some of these kids this "psychic power" seems to be more like a hindrance than a blessing, couldn't you argue (if you believed in these powers) that evolution is therefore working in the opposite direction i.e. non psychics are the "more evolved"?
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Old 7th August 2006, 07:06 AM   #15
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What they don't tell you is the scariest part ...

The folks who push the "Indigo Children" stuff like to conveniently leave off the story of the origins on the concept.

The authors of the book The Indigo Children are Lee Carroll and Jan Tober, who "channel" messages from "Kryon," an extra terrestrial spirit who tells them all kinds of things. Kryon is the source of the concept that the book espouses.

My wife was nearly taken in by the "Indigo Kinder" crap here in Germany a few years ago. A few minutes search on the internet turned up the Kryon/space aliens link, and my wife dropped the whole Indigo nonsense immediately. She rooted around and located more conventional literature for dealing with difficult children. That helped us tremendously in dealing with our daughter's behaviour. Not that she's a bad kid. She's just active, intelligent, inquisitive, and head strong. These are all things that are not viewed in a positive light under the typical German mentality that expects quiet, obedient children who don't ask questions or display creativity.

At any rate, the point here is that there's more to this "Indigo Children" crap than meets the eye, and that many of the people who propagate its beliefs are either unaware of the origins or else intentionally mask them so as not to scare off potential believers.
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Old 7th August 2006, 07:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
I've got a question, why do these people that think some kids have psychic powers think of them as "more evolved"? Which I assume they mean as superior. From what I've heard about some of these kids this "psychic power" seems to be more like a hindrance than a blessing, couldn't you argue (if you believed in these powers) that evolution is therefore working in the opposite direction i.e. non psychics are the "more evolved"?
You'd have to read the literature, but the point of the whole mess is that the Indigo kids have problems because we non-Indigo (not as highly involved and inferior) parents don't know how to deal with them. In an ideal world you see, Indigo children will be born to parents who themselves were Indigo children and who will instinctively know how to handle the children. There won't be any problems with the kids then. The books are there to help us poor old inferiors in learning how to cope with our superior children and how not to interfere with their development so that the dear little purple munchkins can reach their full potential.
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Old 7th August 2006, 07:17 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by MortFurd View Post
You'd have to read the literature, but the point of the whole mess is that the Indigo kids have problems because we non-Indigo (not as highly involved and inferior) parents don't know how to deal with them. In an ideal world you see, Indigo children will be born to parents who themselves were Indigo children and who will instinctively know how to handle the children. There won't be any problems with the kids then. The books are there to help us poor old inferiors in learning how to cope with our superior children and how not to interfere with their development so that the dear little purple munchkins can reach their full potential.
Ah I see now, still can't see what use been able to see ghost trains is though
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Old 7th August 2006, 08:02 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by MortFurd View Post
In an ideal world you see, Indigo children will be born to parents who themselves were Indigo children and who will instinctively know how to handle the children.
It's only a small step from there toward Indigo eugenics I hereby coin the term "Indigenics".

What is that "more highly evolved" nonsense, you see it everywhere! It's not just an Indigo thing, it's a new age staple. Perhaps the first thing Dr. Munchies should do is stop watching X-Men The Movie and pick up A Loon's Guide to Evolution, if it's been written yet. Jon Ronson?
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Old 7th August 2006, 08:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
Ah I see now, still can't see what use been able to see ghost trains is though
And obviously, your inability to understand the use is simply more evidence that you are not an Indigo.

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Old 7th August 2006, 08:23 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Nucular View Post
It's only a small step from there toward Indigo eugenics I hereby coin the term "Indigenics".

What is that "more highly evolved" nonsense, you see it everywhere! It's not just an Indigo thing, it's a new age staple. Perhaps the first thing Dr. Munchies should do is stop watching X-Men The Movie and pick up A Loon's Guide to Evolution, if it's been written yet. Jon Ronson?
Yes I do wonder about this "more highly evolved" rubbish as well, then again you could probably get quite a big book out of "popular misconceptions about evolution"
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Old 7th August 2006, 08:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
Ah I see now, still can't see what use been able to see ghost trains is though
Ah, well. You see, that's part of the problem. If we were grown up Indigos, we'd know instinctively what to do.

My reaction such a statement from one of my kids would be something like:
Yeah, cool. Go back out and wipe your feet. You're tracking mud all over the house.

The "proper" Indigo woo-woo reaction would probably be something like this:
Oh, marvelous. You're just such a little psychic wonder. Your grandmother rode a train once, is she on the train you see? No? Then it must be your father's uncle's third cousin twice removed. He was a toilet cleaner on a train. Was he perhaps the engineer on the one you saw? I once saw a ghostly Indian in the back yard myself. He told me that there was an Indian burial mound beneath our house. Up until then, I had no idea that there were ancient Indian burial mounds in Germany. So, you should always pay attention to your visions. There's something to be learned from them.
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:26 PM   #22
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Did anyone catch the name of that neurofeedback "doctor"?
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:31 PM   #23
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Well, don't know about you guys but I just felt a bit empty after that. Not the greatest piece of television I have ever seen, but quite anger inducing in terms of how absolute unbelieveably stoopid some of those people are.

At least after watching that, I now know that I am as telepathic as an Indigo kid, and I'm 34!

eta: my wife used to be a nanny, and her instant reaction was "that little boy is making those stories up", so why can't his mother see that.
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:40 PM   #24
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I was watching it with my mum (who's a counsellor and worked with a lot of special needs kids in schools) and her instant reaction was that the children were being led quite obviously in their questioning and was a dangerous way to treat an ADHD child, encouraging their fantasies etc.
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:48 PM   #25
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The 15yo wasn't ADHD, was she?

Although I think her mother has issues with reality.


WHat I took from this programme was a better understanding of how some of these people can really believe in all this nonsense, and the constant reaffirmation (and reward) from others just keeps the whole thing going. Previously if I'd seen that red haired muppet on a tv psychic channel I would have thought, she is a total fraud. However, now I guess I could imagine she has convinced herself in her abilities. At what point is that young girl going to turn round and question some of the things she is getting told? At least her son had the right idea, but funnily enough we didn't see him again other than right at the start.
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:54 PM   #26
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The girl wasn't no but my personal thoughts are that if she's constantly encouraged to pursue any imagined thing or fantasy then surely that will start affecting her perceptions eventually. You can sort of see Richard Dawkin's virus of the mind at work here, just like religion.
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by superscaper View Post
Did anyone catch the name of that neurofeedback "doctor"?
Surinder Kaur
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Old 7th August 2006, 02:57 PM   #28
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Thanks
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Old 7th August 2006, 03:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
I've got a question, why do these people that think some kids have psychic powers think of them as "more evolved"? Which I assume they mean as superior. From what I've heard about some of these kids this "psychic power" seems to be more like a hindrance than a blessing, couldn't you argue (if you believed in these powers) that evolution is therefore working in the opposite direction i.e. non psychics are the "more evolved"?
Because like fundamentalist Christians, the new agers do not understand what evolution is really about. The only difference is that rather than rejecting as the holy rollers do, the have embraced the definition of evolution found in bad sci-fi movies and comic books.

Personally, I blame Stan Lee, true believer!
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Old 7th August 2006, 04:22 PM   #30
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I felt sorry for the young boy.He was obviously making things up/imagining things,yet due to his mother's insistince I feel he played it up.
Maybe those children should be taken into care.Someone needs to investigate I feel.
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Old 7th August 2006, 04:57 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch View Post
I think you may well be surprised. Cutting Edge is a very respectable and intelligent documentary strand, and I very, very much doubt that the programme will be credulous. In fact, if it turns out to be, I agree to eat my socks.
So, how did you rate the show? Was it sock-worthy
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Old 8th August 2006, 01:18 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jon View Post
So, how did you rate the show? Was it sock-worthy
My socks are firmly on my feet, because I really don't think it was a credulous piece. Instead, it was an example of a quite worthwhile strain of TV documentary, in which the makers--as much as is possible--"get out of the way" and just present their subject. My only worry is that that's fine for viewers with a reasonable amount of sense, as they can look at the programme and draw their own conclusions (and certainly, those who featured in the programme were given an awful lot of rope with which to string themselves up). I do worry slightly, though, that we're now going to see a rise in the number of really rather dim people claiming that they have Indigo Children .... Though personally, it's beyond me how anyone could watch that programme without a big neon sign in their brain flashing the words "child abuse".
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Old 8th August 2006, 01:23 AM   #33
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Assuming you are the Jon Ronson, congratulations on a marvellous piece! I've admired your line in disarmingly bemused scepticism for some time now.

Originally Posted by jonronson View Post

And it gives me no pleasure to say this, but blindfolded children immediately start walking into chairs, into pillars, into tables.
What, no pleasure?! You wouldn't be being a tiny bit disingenuous here would you?
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Old 8th August 2006, 01:44 AM   #34
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I thought it was utterly spineless. There was the faintest hint of implied ridicule, but primarily only because the subject matter, presented straight (as it pretty much was) is so ridiculous in the first place.

It was sad, more than anything else; the "stage-mom" style new-age froot-loop pushing her increasingly self-deluded daughter into a career of woo, and the frankly IMO negligent mother of the boy, desperate to find some greater meaning to her kid's issues than "he has ADHD". I couldn't believe that she was so out of touch with the concept of motherhood as to grill the boy over what "spirits" he'd seen that day, and to put him through the whole rigmarole. She didn't even seem that convinced or convicted of such things otherwise! And as for "doing her own research" at her local library...yeesh. "there's a lot on the internet about it" - no ****, and you're ignoring the legit info on ADHD and going for any other explanation that makes you not a failure and your child not a troublemaking outcast (I'm using her POV here), no matter how damaging to his growing up and your relationship with him.

I kept hoping that some real doctors were watching and could get in touch via the programme makers, and make her see sense. At least Kaur made her accept the ADHD diagnosis a little more.
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Old 8th August 2006, 02:55 AM   #35
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Big Les, I agree very, very sad.

Dr Kaur (Dr of philosophy) favourite words “Research suggests”,

Little boy being grilled, until he had to make something up, just to get his mother out of his face.

Deluded Muppet mother in turn teaching her daughter how to be deluded.

Mothers/adults not being able to distinguish between the children’s imagination or them really seeing Angels, the dead etc. Children being told by the mothers/adults that it was not their imagination it was actually real.

Tarot cards, pictures of Angels, Reiki, Crystals, Healing hands, the kids were growing up with this lot around them, in this atmosphere what hope have they really got?

The bottom line: in background on an orange sign “ Reiki lessons Ł25”, Crystal healing Ł20 etc etc.
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Old 8th August 2006, 03:46 AM   #36
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I was amusingly confused at one point when it was announced that Heather (daughter of red haired loon) had become an insured Reiki healer.

"Insured against what?" I cried in alarm, "Over-healing someone? Accidental wrong dosage of spooky energy?
"It'd be useful for self defense though. I can just picture it now... 'stand back, these spindly, fragile and easily broken hands are deadly weapons. I'm warning you, one step closer and I'll blast you!' " I mocked.

Ok, so that's not what they really meant but it was damned funny at the time.
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Old 8th August 2006, 03:53 AM   #37
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I did like that boys response when his mother dragged him along to see the Indigo kids video (which was truly cringe worthy), it going something like:

Interview: "Do you think you're indigo?"

Kid: "No"

I: "Why do you think your mam thinks you are?"

kid: "I think she's going through a mid life crises"

Strange how he didn't reappear in the documentary.

Actually given that his sister and mother believed in this stuff and seemed to be forcing it quite heavily on him it showed quite a degree of character not to just go along with the flow (although I suppose not wanting to look like a tit on national TV probably helped as well.)
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Old 8th August 2006, 03:57 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch View Post
Assuming you are the Jon Ronson, congratulations on a marvellous piece! I've admired your line in disarmingly bemused scepticism for some time now.



What, no pleasure?! You wouldn't be being a tiny bit disingenuous here would you?
Well, I always go in HOPING to have my scepticism confounded!


I found the documentary really quite formless. I thought the filmmaker was torn between feeling sympathetic with her subjects on a human level (in a slightly annoyingly mumsy, BBC local radio way) and her realising that it was all nonsense. So she was trying to walk that line, but she got it wrong and it was all a gushy mess.
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Old 8th August 2006, 03:58 AM   #39
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I'm confused. When they say "Indigo children" is this implying they are a strange purple colour?
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Old 8th August 2006, 04:02 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch View Post
My socks are firmly on my feet, because I really don't think it was a credulous piece. Instead, it was an example of a quite worthwhile strain of TV documentary, in which the makers--as much as is possible--"get out of the way" and just present their subject. My only worry is that that's fine for viewers with a reasonable amount of sense, as they can look at the programme and draw their own conclusions (and certainly, those who featured in the programme were given an awful lot of rope with which to string themselves up). I do worry slightly, though, that we're now going to see a rise in the number of really rather dim people claiming that they have Indigo Children .... Though personally, it's beyond me how anyone could watch that programme without a big neon sign in their brain flashing the words "child abuse".
I don't know, they allowed woo experts to 'get in the way', but no-one more sceptical Much preferred Jon Ronson's article, but was very disappointed that the documentary hadn't filmed the kids (or, even better, the mum) walking into chairs/tables
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