OCT leader's maturity and credibility

Killtown

Banned
K
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
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To all who think I ignored and ducked Gravy's questions because I was being a coward, you need to know how it all started.

First, Gravy is "Murdervillage"...

Gravy:

I had posted this in another thread. Killtown asked that I start a new thread.

Glad you're here, Killtown.

In other forums where you post, I've posted as "Murdervillage" and repeatedly asked you questions that you simply ignored.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1842112&postcount=1
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Now how it first started....

At 8:10 PM, Murdervillage said...

I agree with my friend Killtown. Airplanes that hit reinforced concrete structrures at high speed DO NOT break into small pieces! Anyone who doesn't know that is a fool, a tool, and a shill.


At 8:22 PM, Murdervillage said...

Killttown, I read your blog. Two thumbs up!


At 8:33 PM, Murdervillage said...

Lay off Killtown. He has been researching this for years and I believe he has spoken to investigators and other supposed witnesses at each supposed crash scene, and not a single one claims that planes hit there or that passenger rmains were recovered.

Killtown 1, Investigators and "witnesses" 0.


At 8:36 PM, Murdervillage said...

Killtown, I forget where on your website you have all those quotes from your interviews with the investigators and witnesses where they say they found no aircraft and human remains. Can you link to that again?


At 8:55 PM, Murdervillage said...

Oh, maybe it was on your blog where I saw your interviews with all those people who were on the scenes.

Is that right, Killtown? I know you said you interviewed all those people. Can you point me to them again?

Thanks!


At 9:00 PM, Murdervillage said...

I just read the "no tail" blog post again, and I heartily concur.

It's perfectly obvious that when a long, cylindrical airliner hits a concrete structure, it will go through that structure without bending or buckling, and the vertical stabilizer would be perfetcty upright when it hit. Anyone who says different will need to explain what universe their laws of physics apply to.


At 9:31 PM, Murdervillage said...

Killtown, help me out. I'm still lost! Can't find where you talked to all those people who were at the scenes. I think it was 30 or 40 interviews, right?

Are those interviews on your blog or your website?


At 11:25 PM, Murdervillage said...

Killtown, they are killing me. I told them that you swore you interviewed a whole bunch of people who investigated the "crash scenes."

Help me out! I can't find those interviews!

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/07/no-buildings-theory.html
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At 11:31 PM, Murdervillage said...

I'm glad you're still here, Killtown. I promised people I would send them to your interviews of the "crash scene" investigators, but I still can't find them.

I know you said you did those interviews. 30 or 40 people, wasn't it?

Pleeeeeeease help me out here! I don't want to be made a fool of!



At 11:37 PM, Killtown said...

Murdervillage, you are already a fool. (I already knew what this "Murdervillage" was up too! :D I didn't know this person was the "impeccalbe" Gravy back then.)

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/07/cindy-sheehan-also-in-vast-right-wing.html
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At 8:57 PM, Murdervillage said...

Killtown, I'm glad you're here. People are harrassing me about where your interviews with the on-scene people are. You said you did 30 or 40 of them. Please tell me where to find them!


At 9:48 PM, Murdervillage said...

I believe killtown. He said he actually talked to the first responders and investigators in Shanksville, and they denied that any evidence of the plane or people were found.

I think most of you critics are new at thisl Killtown has been researching for a long time.

Killtown, when you get a chance, can you throw me those links to your interviews? Please?


At 10:07 PM, Murdervillage said...

Killtown, I hate to be a bother, but can you at least give us a summary of who you talked to from the flight 93 site and what they said?

At 4:01 AM, Murdervillage said...

I don't want to seem to be criticizing Killtown! His research is awesome! I just think he's shy or something. There is absolutely no reason to think he's not telling the truth.

The flight 93 site was by far the smallest in terms of the number of people on the scene, and still there were over 1100 people there from 74 agencies and organizations, from the Shanksville Volunteer Fire Department to coroner Wally Miller to hundreds of FBI investigators. Just look at the list of first responders from that PDF I listed earlier!

So, it's not as if there's a shortage of witnesses to communicate with, and if Killtown says he's done that, and that if they say there was no plane or human remains there, I believe him 100%. I wonder if he has a book deal or something that precludes him from sharing this info.

Killtown?

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/07/united-93-debunked.html
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So you see what Gravy was trying to do to get me to answer his question, being immature, sarcastic, and DECEPTIVE in egging me on to answer them (apparently he thought I was that stupid to fall for his trick). Then he says this:

My comment was childish, but was born of frustration at Killtown's daily refusal to answer my questions...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1844495&postcount=47
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And tops it off with...

But I needn't have stooped to calling him dumb. His website and forum posts are ample proof of his intellect.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1844495&postcount=47
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The really sad part is most OCTs (Official Conspiracy Theorists) still hold him in high esteem and being credible.


Sad, just sad.


:(
 
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All I request as a casual reader and observer/contributor of the forum that we not lower this decent forum to a 'days of our lives' load of drivel such as this.

Sorry but the care factor is -1
 
I will only say this.

Given the maturity level exhibited "many times" by the "Truth" movement Frontmen (D.A. J.B. J.F.A.J.), a big old "POT CALLIN THE KETTLE BLACK" is in order.
 
He is a leader in the OCT movement. Just need to show you guys what kind of person you're following.

You can thank me later.
 
I don't follow anyone, I'm not a sheep. I look at evidence and make up my own mind. So far I've not seen any conclusive evidence that 9/11 was a Conspiracy theory. Oh yeah you can trot out the squibs, or building 7, or the hole in the pentagon, and quote mine all you want but take that **** to court and you'd get laughed out of the room.
 
Yes, I was inspired by watching you refuse to answer similar questions again and again on the LC forum.

All the messages I got about those posts thought they were funny as hell. You really should print them next to your posts, where they belong.

Why didn't you answer my questions as you promised to do, Killtown? Why did you run away like the rest of the CT cowards?

What are you afraid of? It's just the truth hiding under your bed.
 
I don't understand what your quotes demonstrate Killtown. Other than your reluctance to answer a direct question related to your Blog.
Murdervillage seems to have been frustrated by your continual obfuscation, which to me is perfectly understandable.

If you claimed to have interviewed all those people, why not show the interviews? Surely their statements must have confirmed your assertions or you wouldn't have mentioned them at all.
I'm still curious as to what they said.
 
Killtown said:
He is a leader in the OCT movement. Just need to show you guys what kind of person you're following.

You can thank me later.
Click to expand...
He's a leader? Hardly. He has done a lot for sure, but there are no leaders here. Look at the first Loose Change thread here - it's pinned - gravy doesn't even come along until over 3 weeks into the thread. And frankly, it took him only a few weeks to find all that evidence that seems to elude all the CT'ers and then he made his viewing guide. And all he did to make that, basically, was compile all the info from 9/11 Myths and other sites.

I really don't get how you CT'ers - who claim to be extensively researching all things 9/11 - could have missed so much info that has been around forever. For example, the flight manifests that were printed by the Boston Globe a few days after 9/11. What did all you CT "researchers" do? Claimed a victims list posted on CNN was a flight manifest. And that bit of disinfo is still being spread by the LC crowd and others.

You guys seem to be completely oblivious to all the facts surrounding 9/11. You deliberately take quotes out of context (Larry Silverstein said "pull it"!1!11!!!!1), make up other lies out of thin air (Ben Chertoff a cousin of Michael Chertoff, Marvin Bush head of WTC security, no plane parts found at the Pentagon, etc), cite things as being in the "official report" that isn't there (the official explanation is that the plane vaporized), I could go on and on. Then you guys have the gall to call yourselves the "Truth Movement" despite all the lies you must know you're perpetuating.

And oh yeah, you accuse people of the murder of nearly 3,000 people w/o a shred of evidence.

So don't be surprised when some people get a little short with you, this will happen when you make such serious accusations w/o any evidence whatsoever.
 
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Gravy is not my 'leader' he is someone who did his homework and addressed the claims spouted forth by people who claimed to be telling us the 'truth'.
As someone who did that and saved me the work, he is an example of a good citizen, someone to follow by example, not a 'leader of the anti CT movement'. Why do you propose we are some opposing evil?
We dont have any movement. Its a bunch of people who would rather reality as it is. People who would prefer to be humble in the light of correctly attained evidence. People who dont jump to conclusions about 'zionist corruption' out of looking at a blurry photo or seeing the price of eggs go up. Call it/us/our ways/habbits what you want but its far from the cult behaviour conspiracy circles exhibit.

Im tired of the idiocy CT people exhibit. Your damned if you do, damned if you dont. Its pathetic attention seeking rubbish. Wannabe scientists and revolutionists trying to play out there latest movie hero in real life.

My two cents.
 
I personally think the only way to solve this is a 57 round battle royale on top of a 1987 Buick Skylark.

Who's with me.

WHO'S WITH MEEEEEEEE!?!!?
 
So, Gravy...you're the leader, huh? Is there a special pin or a really cool badge or something? And what are the bennies like? Medical, dental, vision?
 
Gravy isn't perfect. I wish he had enough patience to refrain from getting personal. But he's doing a great job and I'm very happy with what he's doing. James Randi also has a tendency to resort to name calling, not that that makes it right but it is a hazard for skeptics who have been exposed to excessive amounts of nonsense.

Killtown, you might want to read Michael Shermer's book, "Why People Believe Weird Things". It doesn't specifically address the 9/11 conspiracy theory, but it does describe the faulty thought processes that lead otherwise reasonable people to believe in nonsense. There are a few chapters on Holocause deniers, creationists, UFO believers, etc. and the methods used to propogate such beliefs are very similar. As I read through the book it was easy to see that the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are on the same path of irrational thinking as these other fringe groups. You might want to take a look at this book. Unlike James Randi, Michael Shermer doesn't resort to personal insults. He does spend time debunking outrageous claims, but he's also very interested in understanding why people believe in this sort of nonsense. Read it and see if anything looks familiar to you, in particular, the section on ad hoc arguements.
 
As their leader, I commanded Wildcat, Hellaeon, and bjb to say those things.
 
But to be serious for a moment, Wildcat's post is a perfect summary of what the CTs say on Saturdays at Ground Zero. The same old, discredited falsehoods from a group calling itself promoters of "Truth."

At some point you should start facing the stark, naked facts, Killtown, as unpleasant as they may be. I get emails every day from people who fell for the CT hogwash and found their way out of it. They feel a bit embarrassed, but mostly they feel liberated. I'm glad to have had a role in that.
 
It looks like we were all typing at the same time! Killtown's plan is to conduct an ad hominem attack on Gravy in an effort to discredit the 9/11 conspiracy debunkers. First, he tells us Gravy is our leader (strawman), then he proceeds to attack his credibility in order to make the debunkers look bad.

Unfortunately, the best Killtown can do is point out the fact that Gravy occasionally gets frustrated and calls people names. Killtown is not interesting in refuting the facts supporting Gravy's arguements (other than using the ad hoc approach of claiming all of the evidence is faked). In fact, Killtown has already pledged that he will not answer direct questions from Gravy! How grown-up and mature is that? Perhaps Killtown would be a more convincing 9/11 truth movement leader if he let the insults go and tried to stick to the facts.
 
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