Ghost Hunters Appeal To Skeptics?

CLD

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Skeptical? You’ll Fit Right in to TAPS
by KCMorgan

One of the very few original shows broadcast by the Sci-Fi network, Ghost Hunters shows viewers the skeptic’s side of paranormal investigations.

Tarot cards, crystal balls, and weird seances not your thing? Ghost Hunters agrees with you. Taking a rational, level-headed, scientific approach to paranormal investigations, The Atlantic Paranormal Society (TAPS) investigates so-called paranormal disturbances with the goal to disprove and debunk.

Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson, founders of TAPS and plumbers by day, are both family men with normal day jobs. They gather their two clans together regularly for family cook-outs and outings. Between them, they have eight children to look after. They are completely normal, much like the other Rhode Island men who live in their neighborhood. Only…by night, Jason and Grant are Ghost Hunters.

TAPS started out in a spare room at Jason’s home and has become one of the fastest-growing paranormal societies in the US. The team’s professionalism and reputation have spread up and down the Atlantic coast, and TAPS investigators will travel up to 300 miles to investigate any paranormal abnormality. Their services are offered free of charge to anyone who seems to be experiencing genuine paranormal phenomenon.

Equipped with infrared cameras, digital thermometers, electromagnetic field recorders, night vision goggles, and thermal-imaging digital cameras, TAPS takes ghost hunting seriously. Their goals are to disprove and debunk claims of paranormal activity, finding logical causes behind personal experiences and claims of ghostly encounters.

Ghost Hunters is built around the inter-personal relationships between TAPS members. Lead investigators Jason and Grant are almost always paired together, sharing their thoughts and views on paranormal activity, the team they lead, and their personal lives. Tech manager Steve Gonsalves, who is a police officer by day, is a frequent field investigator featured on the show. Other team members include Andy, Brian (who comes and goes frequently), and Donna.

Skeptical and scientific, the TAPS team loads up their black SUVs to investigate paranormal disturbances in locations around the country. Antebellum mansions, famous restaurants, huge naval ships, and single family homes have all been explored by TAPS investigators. At many locales, paranormal activity is successfully debunked.

The 2006 season, however, did feature some notable locations that TAPS could not debunk. The famous hotel where Stephen King wrote his bestselling book “The Shining” was explored by TAPS investigators, who could not explain such strange things as glasses breaking, doors opening and closing by themselves, and strange noises. The famously haunted Waverly Hills Sanitorium in Louisville, Kentucky was also explored by TAPS investigators – none of whom could debunk the ghostly claims surrounding the creepy old hospital.

The level-headed, professional approach adopted by TAPS investigators have impressed and pleased many. The Sci-Fi network has no plans to pull the plug on Ghost Hunters - the show’s third season is set to premiere in October. For now, viewers can catch all the ghostly action from season two on Wednesday evenings.

And if you’re skeptical about ghosts, then you’ve already got something in common with the professionals at TAPS.

http://www.tvbloggin.com/2006/06/skeptical_youll_fit_right_in_t.html
 
Skeptics
Level-headed
Rational
Scientific
Professional
Completely Normal

Sounds good, eh?

But wait a minute.

They could not explain the strange goings-on at the Stanley Hotel!

And the creepy old Waverly Hospital could not be debunked!

Wooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If skeptics can't explain it...then....GHOSTS MUST BE REAL!!!!!


AIYEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(cash register sound) KA-CHING!
 
If this is the same show I saw a few episodes of, and the guys I saw were plumbers also, then it's not really skeptical.

In one house, a kid was having trouble sleeping, and there was a laundry room which caused phsycal symptoms. By the end of the investigation, they said kid was playing computer games too close to bed time, fair enough. And that the laundry room was probably making people sick because of EM fields from some lights or something, possibly gas was mentioned, carbon dioxide or something. That would be fine expect they reached this conclusion (their initial hypothesis by the way) with out actually getting any high readings of anything. They just figured it was this and then went with it.

Another house had unexplained vibrations, and a door opened on film, by itself. A door latched so it couldn't open by itself apparently. They concluded it was haunted. They didn't even have someone on the road neaby to record if any trucks or cars went past when the vibrations occured. They thought the road was too far to allow any vibrations to reach the house, but they never eliminated it as a possible cause. They didn't rule out much of anything, when they couldn't see an obvious cause they jumped straight to ghosts. They had a medium along on that case. The owners of the house said up front they got them in only to confirm what they already knew, that the house was haunted. I would have loved have seen their faces when it was revealed every door rattling co-incided with a truck driving past or a gas main or something.

How can one unexplained phenoma be EM or gas and another be ghosts? They should have both stayed as unexplained.

I was disapointed by the lack of actual science, they just used some tools science had created but not the wonderful tool of science itself.
 
Hey Guys (especially RemieV),

I finally signed up over at TAPS to take a look around and see if I could find out more about this ghost stuff. I started a discussion with someone under the EVP heading entitled "Are these EVPs real?"

I indicated that I couldn't hear anything understandable on any of the samples leave alone the messages they claimed were there. I also pointed out that science could not fathom how a ghost without a larynx could cause sound waves to propagate through the air, cause the diaphragm in a microphone to vibrate, and cause electrical impulses to be recorded on the tape or flash memory of an audio recorder. I am trying to be very understanding and non-confrontational.

One of the responses I received is below. It takes for granted that there has been "research" done in this field since the time of Edison and Tesla. I question the quality of this research and its results.

I doubt that ther has been any research outside of the spiritualist community, but I could be wrong. Can any of you point me in the direction of any of any research done in EVPs? I find it hard to believe that Einstein or Edison were involved, but if they were, I would bet they didn't find anything "positive".

Posted in TAPS site by rjinspired:

Research has been done since the time of Edison and Tesla with unknown voices. From environmental experiments performed in Faraday cages and tightly controlled environments have all ready been done as far back as 1970.

One book which I recommend is the Spiricom project. There are also documents by scientists, psychologist and electronic engineers linked in this book related to experiments with evp. I host the book on my site in the event that the site moves or doesn't host the book anymore.

There has always been scientific research in this field but it is mainly the independents doing this type of work and not mainstream science, with a few exceptions of some known and famous scientists such as Einstein, Edison and Nikola Tesla who have in one way or another experiemnted with evp and the paranormal.

The important thing is to try evp for yourself. When the time can be found, grab a recorder and give a try a couple of times, with both a skeptical and open mind. This is really the only way and it may take some time to even get anything. When going over any audio later on in the listening stage, you have to be both judgemental while at the same time open.
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Good luck Skeptic Guy! When I first joined TAPS in this past March, I would support my statements with links to references. Soon I was admonished by posters for "not using scholarly references." (anything that refuted belief in ghosts was deemed not scholarly) Next, outright heckling occurred until I was tossed off the board.
 
I still want to know what the TAPS folks are measuring and how they think these are ghosts.

EM fields?

Temperature changes?

Who said these were ghosts?

I love watching Ghost Plumbers... they're really good for a laugh. Ppppppppppsh.... did you hear it? Ppppppppppsh... there it was again (pure static sound) Ppppppppsh... Wow, that's proof positive ghosts are real.
 
Hey Skeptic Guy, is your posting on the TAPS 18+ board or their other board?

I believe Edison briefly mused about contacting the dead via telephone, but I know of no documented experiments done by him or any conclusions. Neither do I know of Einstein performing any experiments regarding the paranormal, unless you consider his musings about multidimensional space paranormal. Tesla engaged in some oddities of thought, but there are so many legends about his research it's hard to separate fact from fiction.

There is a lot of wishful thinking going on with EVP enthusiasts.
 
DangerousBeliefs said:
I still want to know what the TAPS folks are measuring and how they think these are ghosts.

EM fields?

Temperature changes?

Who said these were ghosts?
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Only idiots. Very often these things are monitored along with many other things in the local environment for comparison readings with other alleged haunted locations. Whether anything is ever going to come of that, I doubt very much, at least not while only the fun ghost hunters are doing it. With regard to EM fields causing/being ghosts, that myth is certainly perpetuated by misinformed thrill seekers who saw one being used on tv and either drew their own conclusions about why it was being used, or were led astray by the
program itself.
 
CLD said:
Hey Skeptic Guy, is your posting on the TAPS 18+ board or their other board?

I believe Edison briefly mused about contacting the dead via telephone, but I know of no documented experiments done by him or any conclusions. Neither do I know of Einstein performing any experiments regarding the paranormal, unless you consider his musings about multidimensional space paranormal. Tesla engaged in some oddities of thought, but there are so many legends about his research it's hard to separate fact from fiction.

There is a lot of wishful thinking going on with EVP enthusiasts.
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It's posted on the standard board. I haven't gone to the 18+ board yet. I can only imagine the difference between the two! Naked ghosts or something. :D

I tried googling briefly last night, but couldn't find anything. I did ask the poster to give me some specifics but I haven't been back today. I will after work.

They did suggest that I look at the "Spiricom project", but that seemed too scholary for me! :D I asked for legitimate peer-reviewed scientific publications but I am not holding my breath.

Don't people hold strange ideas on Tesla's work in general?
 
Kochanski said:
These kiddies need to see & hear Dr. Richard Wiseman demonstrate the way we find patterns in sounds, just once ;)

Ok, well maybe they will need to see it several times. Sheesh.
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This is helpful. I will look up Dr. Wiseman and see if I can include it in my posts.

It was interesting that after my first post, the person that had submitted the initial EVPs was very surprised that I stated that I could not hear anything. He was legitimately taken aback that I did not hear what I heard.

I told him that it would be very interesting if he would submit a few of the EVPs as part of a double blind test. We would have the forum listen to the samples, properly randomized and labeled so no one knows which one is which.

I would hazard a guess that not one person listening to the EVPs would come up with the same interpretation of what was recorded. I think it would work but let me know if you think it should be done differently. Not that I think they will take up the gauntlet.
 
The Vampire said:
Good luck Skeptic Guy! When I first joined TAPS in this past March, I would support my statements with links to references. Soon I was admonished by posters for "not using scholarly references." (anything that refuted belief in ghosts was deemed not scholarly) Next, outright heckling occurred until I was tossed off the board.
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I suspect that this is where I am heading too.
 
Skeptic Guy said:
This is helpful. I will look up Dr. Wiseman and see if I can include it in my posts.

It was interesting that after my first post, the person that had submitted the initial EVPs was very surprised that I stated that I could not hear anything. He was legitimately taken aback that I did not hear what I heard.

I told him that it would be very interesting if he would submit a few of the EVPs as part of a double blind test. We would have the forum listen to the samples, properly randomized and labeled so no one knows which one is which.

I would hazard a guess that not one person listening to the EVPs would come up with the same interpretation of what was recorded. I think it would work but let me know if you think it should be done differently. Not that I think they will take up the gauntlet.
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Skeptic Guy, I am not sure the TAPS kids want to think too deeply about it. They are thrill seekers who walk around in the dark whispering to each other while holding tape recorders. Later, they play back a recording of someone sneezing, then tell each other "this sounds like a ghost saying 'GET YOU'". :D
 
CLD said:
Skeptic Guy, I am not sure the TAPS kids want to think too deeply about it. They are thrill seekers who walk around in the dark whispering to each other while holding tape recorders. Later, they play back a recording of someone sneezing, then tell each other "this sounds like a ghost saying 'GET YOU'". :D
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I have to tell you that I was amazed as to how many on the site could hear anything on the wav files that had been uploaded.

Comments like, "Yeah, the ghost is saying, "God is here" or "Help me," were common throughout.
 
Skeptic Guy, you should try posting an EVP of you whispering (several feet away from the mike) "you people are deluded". See if they hear anything.
 
ha, we have a ghost door in our conference room then. the door latches- tho it is never actually latched when it opens "by itself". what is the source of the ghost? a passing truck? slight tremors? no, a totally unnoticeable change in air pressure. when another door is closed this one opens, or when the a/c kicks on (noiselessly in our building), or even when someone moves around in the room. it can seem really spooky but jeez come on guys.
 
CLD said:
Skeptic Guy, you should try posting an EVP of you whispering (several feet away from the mike) "you people are deluded". See if they hear anything.
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That's a great idea but it would blow my "non-confrontational" approach. I might have to resort to it though.
 
gfunkusarelius said:
ha, we have a ghost door in our conference room then. the door latches- tho it is never actually latched when it opens "by itself". what is the source of the ghost? a passing truck? slight tremors? no, a totally unnoticeable change in air pressure. when another door is closed this one opens, or when the a/c kicks on (noiselessly in our building), or even when someone moves around in the room. it can seem really spooky but jeez come on guys.
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I hope you got our your EMF detectors and your thermal scanners. You might just find something.
 
DangerousBeliefs said:
I still want to know what the TAPS folks are measuring and how they think these are ghosts.

EM fields?

Temperature changes?

Who said these were ghosts?

I love watching Ghost Plumbers... they're really good for a laugh. Ppppppppppsh.... did you hear it? Ppppppppppsh... there it was again (pure static sound) Ppppppppsh... Wow, that's proof positive ghosts are real.
Click to expand...

I believe they have a device that measures audience and sponsor dollars - I'm not sure of the total beckground but the audience part was initially developed by a gentleman named Neilson.
 
aaahhhh, I am freaked out man! Where did you get that?!!!

It sounds better than anything else they provide. You can hear the words on yours or at least some of them. What were you saying? The same as above?
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Skeptic Guy, yes I made it myself. It says what I suggested it say in an earlier post. If you submit it to the TAPS kids, you must keep me informed, LOL....
 
CLD - I just played your file for my significant other - who had no idea what it was supposed to say. His interpretation:

"soup sure tastes good now"

Spooky, huh??
:D
 
"soup sure tastes good now"
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I can assure you, the supernatural spook is NOT saying that! Remember, the voice is coming from the afterlife, so some distortion will occur. ;)
 
CLD said:
I can assure you, the supernatural spook is NOT saying that! Remember, the voice is coming from the afterlife, so some distortion will occur. ;)
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Ok, I think I'll do it. I have to go log into TAPS anyway and I am sure I am going to get some interesting comments.
 
Ok, I think I'll do it. I have to go log into TAPS anyway and I am sure I am going to get some interesting comments.
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Remember, I am banned from that board via IP, so I can't watch. Can you please cut and past and post the good stuff here? Also whatever story you attach to the EVP.
 
I just posted this and will go back in a bit with your "EVP" and ask them to analyze it.

From "Joseph":

Many researches have already proved that recording on tape or digital voice recorders have goten results, and that it didn't really matter if there was a microphone or not. A lot of people prefer to use microphones for obvious reasons, though. I don't beleive all the questions will be put to rest, ever. But, I have picked up EMF fluctuations at the same time I picked up an EVP, and other times I didn't, so it can still go either way. But, I agree with rjisinspired. I think if you really want to attack EVP like a true scientis, you should try at least a couple times. Several of my friends are skeptics, and one of them was turned to beleiver when he picked up an EVP.
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My response:

Sounds good. Do you have some of the studies and the names of the researchers that you can give me? A lot of times when addressing pseudoscientific claims it is difficult to put names to the researchers making the claims and details to the data. Someone will begin with "many researchers have studied this" without really verifying it and it just keeps getting repeated until eventually it achieves moral authority among those who want to believe.

And I understand the confusion, I do, its just that many people don't understand the scientific process. I blame our education system, but that is a whole other thread. First we have to have some sort of evidence of something occuring in the natural world. Then you develop a hypothesis that would explain that observation. Then you design an experiment that would test your hypothesis. If your hypothesis held up after your testing (experiments), and those tests would have to be well designed, double blinded, etc. then you would submit that data to the scientific community for peer review and replication. Only after it stood up to the peer review process and was replicated, can you truly state that something is scientifically proven.

Unfortunately, none of that has been done in regards to EVP, or for that matter EMF as related to "ghosts", but let's stick with one topic at a time. We have enough on our plate! I contend that as of yet there has been no evidence that EVPs exist. I have not seen any evidence written up in any of the mainstream scientific journals nor have I heard anything anywhere that remotely sounds like an "other-worldly" voice captured on any recording medium.

That is why I would propose a double blinded test with a sampling of "verified" EVPs (I wouldn't want it claimed that there was nothing on them), each EVP would be labeled only with a number by an unenvolved party, and then those EVPs would be given to a group of listeners made up of both "believers" and "non-believers" (so that there would be some filtering of any potential bias). We could then see if there was definitive proof of understanable voices on the tape. It is my contention that there would be no statistically significant agreement among the listeners. However, if there were, then we could go to the next steps.

So what do you think, could we try? It would be very exciting.
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I'll let you know what kind of response I get.

After posting my last message, I thought it would be a better idea if I started the ball rolling. I found an "evp" online that is claimed to have a voice saying a short phrase. I hope it is one that no one on this site has heard so that no one has any foreknowledge of what it says. It has been been indicated to contain what the poster claims to be a voice though I cannot hear what he says is recorded there. But I do know what is claimed to be recorded.

Can you please listen to the EVP and let me know if you hear anything? I would like to get a few people's input (say around five people?) so that I can get some agreement.

http://www.mysharefile.com/d/6171861/1156796750/evp1.wav

I have never tried to imbed a url on this forum, so let me know if it works.
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Regarding "Joseph's" quote....

Personally, I think 'ghost hunting' is more of a pose than anything. Their method is to go somewhere, get any results at all (a meter wiggles, noise on the recorder, temp difference of 3 degrees), and call it "anomalous". That's not science, that's wishful thinking.
 
Copied from the TAPS site after a poster indicated that her 2-year old child had an imaginary "monkey" friend. The "spooky" thing is that the previous owner of their house raised monkeys for the circus! Wait, it gets better... a few of them may have died in the house!

I was pleasantly surprised when the first responder chalked it up to the imagination of a 2-year old and that child overhearing the adults talking about the man who raised monkeys.

Then someone posted this:


I wouldnt dismiss the posability of your son being able to see these monkeys that might have passed away in your home. I believe animals as well as humans come back in spirit form. After my dog died my parents and i would be sitting in the dining room during dinner and hear the tapping of the dogs nails on our hard wood floor and sounding like a dog was going up and down the stairs.
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My head hurts...
 
Oh dear, yes, the TAPS boards can get a little weird. In fact, on the Sci Fi channel's Ghost Hunters board, people often type about the weirdos from the TAPS board.

The double blind test wouldn't work, unfortunately, unless no one was allowed to answer in the thread and everyone responded via PM. The second one person puts what they think they hear, everyone else is going to follow with the same thing.
 
RemieV said:
Oh dear, yes, the TAPS boards can get a little weird. In fact, on the Sci Fi channel's Ghost Hunters board, people often type about the weirdos from the TAPS board.

The double blind test wouldn't work, unfortunately, unless no one was allowed to answer in the thread and everyone responded via PM. The second one person puts what they think they hear, everyone else is going to follow with the same thing.
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Thanks for that! I forgot about it. I did post the EVP that CLD gave me but just added a statement that they are to PM me with their responses.

I was just told that EVPs are not repeatable which causes trouble with the "mainstream scientists." No kidding!
 
I read one thread tonight about money appearing to a woman. She would do laundry and find money in the clothes.

Gee...all this time I had no idea that was supernatural!

I wanted to post about finding a money tree in the woods and see if anyone else had that experience. :cool:
 
One time I got really drunk in a bar and went home that night to discover three hundred dollars that absolutely wasn't mine in my pocket. I called the bar and asked if they were missing money and they weren't. I called the cops and asked if anything had been reported stolen and it wasn't. I held onto the money for three weeks and called the bar repeatedly to find out if anyone had ever come looking for it. They hadn't. The only explanation I could come up with was picking up my change for a drink, and accidentally picking up someone else's money. I didn't really talk to anyone that night, and still have no idea how it got there....

I guess it was ghosts. Neat.
 
The "I NEED HELP" section of TAPS 18+ is overrun by demon-obsessed religious extremists, Katrina refugees, and military wives. It's a deadly combination. They're ALL under stress, and they all work together to amplify shared delusions. The wives see shadows, the refugees feel presences and the religious nutcases prescribe biblical incantations.
 
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