to the CTists: Do it already!

Pardalis

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One thing that bugs me the most about those CTist imbeciles is that they are asking for an "international" investigation, whatever that means, but yet they're not doing anything to start it.

Who are they asking ? The Bush administration? Are they waiting for their permission or something?

What exactly are they waiting for?

What actual steps have they really undertaken to start another investigation?

Will they be satisfied with the results of the new one?

How is this investigation going to be done? Who will take part in it? How will we know it's legitimate?

My guess is that they really just like to ask questions, and they don't want the answers. They know a new investigation will end up pretty much with the same conclusions as the 9/11 Commission. They are happy with just asking questions, stemming doubt in the general population, creating dissent from utter lies and fabrications, manipulating the facts without being reprimented by the real experts. It's a nice status quo. They like to doubt, doubt is fun. Real research is not, real science and real facts aren't cool. It's like a pseudo scientist, why would he want his work peer-reviewed when he knows he's full of *****. I think the Deniers are afraid of the real experts, of the real story being true.

Sorry, I just had to vent...
 
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They are not shy about claiming inside job, surely there has to be a lawyer out there willing to take this pro-bono, civil lawsuit, class action? Why haven't any of them tried to press charges? Why rant on Internet forums when you could be bringing the perps to justice? Rhetorical questions of course.
 
Pardalis:

Forget them man...I decided to. I am officially done with the CTers. I am going to continue to research 9/11, and to post the "Real" Truth for the fence sitters and those who are searching, but as for arguing with the nutbars...I am done. It is a waste of my time, and I am tired of wheel spinning.

TAM
 
Wasn't there a troofer lawyer in that Penn & Teller episode ?
 
We're waiting for the government to release the mountain of evidence we know they have, for one thing. How bout the old Pentagon videos? Those would be a start. How about the NTSB plane crash reports? They did investigate the crashes and document all the serialized plane parts, as per federal law, didn't they? They didn't? What?

How about the recordings of the phone calls, instead of transcripts? How about that tape of the air traffic controllers? How about the photos of plane wreckage around columns inside the Pentagon, that the PM guys talked about? I haven't seen those.

How about the blueprints to the twin towers? How about the data from the NIST computer models?
 
No I am far from done here. I am making it my mission to collect as much info I can for those who need to read it. I am going to be here for the olivers and einsteens, to see if we can help them see the "real" truth.

You can't convince the hardcore guys, and they just turn me into an angry person, which is not who I really am.

TAM
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
We're waiting for the government to release the mountain of evidence we know they have, for one thing. How bout the old Pentagon videos? Those would be a start. How about the NTSB plane crash reports? They did investigate the crashes and document all the serialized plane parts, as per federal law, didn't they? They didn't? What?

How about the recordings of the phone calls, instead of transcripts? How about that tape of the air traffic controllers? How about the photos of plane wreckage around columns inside the Pentagon, that the PM guys talked about? I haven't seen those.

How about the blueprints to the twin towers?
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Yeah but who is asking for them? Do you expect the authorities to hand all this information to a bunch of paranoid loonies (the "Trooot Movement")?

To you maybe? Mr. Joe Blow from behind his computer desk who knows nothing about engeneering and physics?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
...They did investigate the crashes and document all the serialized plane parts, as per federal law, didn't they? They didn't? What?
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How about providing a link to that law.

This is a perfect example of the ball-less CT crowd. You claim a federal law was broken, yet no one is attempting to follow up, tell me scrotum-less, why is that?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
We're waiting for the government to release the mountain of evidence we know they have, for one thing. How bout the old Pentagon videos? Those would be a start. How about the NTSB plane crash reports? They did investigate the crashes and document all the serialized plane parts, as per federal law, didn't they? They didn't? What?

How about the recordings of the phone calls, instead of transcripts? How about that tape of the air traffic controllers? How about the photos of plane wreckage around columns inside the Pentagon, that the PM guys talked about? I haven't seen those.

How about the blueprints to the twin towers? How about the data from the NIST computer models?
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so your evidence of an inside comes from the fact that the govt doesnt release all the evidence they have

can you cite any previous investigation, govt or otherwise, that released every scrap of evidence to the public? can you cite any precedent that might show the govts actions in this case as being unusual? do you have any evidence the govt is deliberately trying to hide something?

you have never denied your involvement in the events of 9/11, nor provided any evidence that you were not involved, what are you trying to hide?
 
T.A.M. said:
Pardalis:

Forget them man...I decided to. I am officially done with the CTers. I am going to continue to research 9/11, and to post the "Real" Truth for the fence sitters and those who are searching, but as for arguing with the nutbars...I am done. It is a waste of my time, and I am tired of wheel spinning.

TAM
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I think I may have witnessed the straw falling onto the camel's back.
That's what you get for inventing imaginary complications. ;)
 
How about the recordings of the phone calls, instead of transcripts?
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Let me just jump in with this one. There is a reason that you haven't heard those phone calls. It's the same reason why you haven't seen the pictures of the recently dead bodies of Nicole Simpson and Ron Brown.
 
greyleonard said:
I think I may have witnessed the straw falling onto the camel's back.
That's what you get for inventing imaginary complications. ;)
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if you are petgoat at DU, than like I said, i am done. I did not invent "imaginary" complications. You may have seen it that way. Believe what you want, it won't change anything.

If you are not, than oh well. I am just tired of beating my head off the brick wall with people that do not use Logic and Solid Evidence to explain things...so I will just continue to make the info available to those who seek it, so that wingnuts don't get their slimy hands into them without someone there to help remove the talons.

TAM
 
Recordings of the phone calls? Sure, trutherdude, all you have to do is hear those and you'll drop your theory and realize you were wrong. NOT.

You'll just claim they're faked. Geeze even now you are inferring that everybody who received phone calls from the planes is either lying or too dense to tell their loved one's voice was faked; you'll either claim the recordings are faked or simply ignore them.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
We're waiting for the government to release the mountain of evidence we know they have
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What would that change? You haven't even looked at the 4 or 5 mountains of evidence that are already out there?

You aren't a skeptical inquirer, you're an entrenched religious fanatic. The only evidence out there is stuff you haven't issued a fatwa against yet.
 
Actually, it doesn't change the point... if you want the government to release some evidence, try filing a FOIA request. Yelling at them in the blogosphere just doesn't have the same effect.
 
twinstead said:
Recordings of the phone calls? Sure, trutherdude, all you have to do is hear those and you'll drop your theory and realize you were wrong. NOT.

You'll just claim they're faked. Geeze even now you are inferring that everybody who received phone calls from the planes is either lying or too dense to tell their loved one's voice was faked; you'll either claim the recordings are faked or simply ignore them.
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exactly, the "lack of evidence released by the govt" thing is just a red herring, if they govt released all their materials they CT crowd would still claim its faked

for example, they claim theres no evidence of a 757 at the pentagon, we show them pictures of debris, they claim it was planted, we point out that some of the debris (engine casing, landing gear strut) is quite heavy and could not be easily planted, they claim its not as big as it seems and was photographed in miniature (yes, ive been told this before)

black boxes, they claim its suspicious no black boxes were found at the WTC, they also claim the black box data from flight 77 and flight 93 was faked

they claim no bodies were found at the WTC, they claim the autopsy data from 93 and 77 was fake

i could go on and on
 
defaultdotxbe said:
exactly, the "lack of evidence released by the govt" thing is just a red herring, if they govt released all their materials they CT crowd would still claim its faked

for example, they claim theres no evidence of a 757 at the pentagon, we show them pictures of debris, they claim it was planted, we point out that some of the debris (engine casing, landing gear strut) is quite heavy and could not be easily planted, they claim its not as big as it seems and was photographed in miniature (yes, ive been told this before)

black boxes, they claim its suspicious no black boxes were found at the WTC, they also claim the black box data from flight 77 and flight 93 was faked

they claim no bodies were found at the WTC, they claim the autopsy data from 93 and 77 was fake

i could go on and on
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ambulance.jpg
 
greyleonard:

if you are greyl at DU, then I think your post was in sarcasm then, as I remember greyl being the thorn in their CT side over there.

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
greyleonard:

if you are greyl at DU, then I think your post was in sarcasm then, as I remember greyl being the thorn in their CT side over there.

TAM
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Well, the last half of my post was sarcastic.
This part: " That's what you get for inventing imaginary complications. :wink: " was all sarcasm.

I'd assumed you were TAM over there. Hasty?
 
Ya its me. I tend to rarely use anonymous anywhere, though occasionally I do, until i get my feet wet in a given forum. I knew going over there what I was getting into. And I am now going to enjoy it more, cause gone are the days of being the arbitor of good will with these idiots. F&*k them. Any opportunity I get to make them look stupid or any chance I get to nail them with a good insult, I am taking it...they deserve what they get.

If I havent already done so, welcome to the JREF FORUM, where LOGIC and EVIDENCE reign supreme.

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
Pardalis:

Forget them man...I decided to. I am officially done with the CTers. I am going to continue to research 9/11, and to post the "Real" Truth for the fence sitters and those who are searching, but as for arguing with the nutbars...I am done. It is a waste of my time, and I am tired of wheel spinning.

TAM
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A lot of fence sitters don't post, but read the messages between debunkers and deniers. I think pointing out their nutbar crap helps fence sitters that don't post.
 
Pardalis said:
One thing that bugs me the most about those CTist imbeciles is that they are asking for an "international" investigation, whatever that means, but yet they're not doing anything to start it.

Who are they asking ? The Bush administration? Are they waiting for their permission or something?

What exactly are they waiting for?
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Well, any rational investigation would begin by finding problems or doubts with the current theory. They've certainly identified lots of those.

For some reason, however, this is where they stop, and folks like us take over. We've collectively dug into just about every possible anomaly, including many that were so laughable on the surface that they wouldn't fly in a Jerry Bruckheimer movie. We've come up with some pretty good results, I must say.

So... in a weird way, we should be their heroes.

What went wrong?

Is it the nerd glasses? It's the nerd glasses, isn't it?
 
T.A.M. said:
Ya its me. I tend to rarely use anonymous anywhere, though occasionally I do, until i get my feet wet in a given forum. I knew going over there what I was getting into. And I am now going to enjoy it more, cause gone are the days of being the arbitor of good will with these idiots. F&*k them. Any opportunity I get to make them look stupid or any chance I get to nail them with a good insult, I am taking it...they deserve what they get.

If I havent already done so, welcome to the JREF FORUM, where LOGIC and EVIDENCE reign supreme.

TAM
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Thanks for the welcome. :)
To put my balls on the table, I swing politically to the far left.
The DU admins' contributions and respect for logic and evidence defines the place for me, not the most ridiculous posts.
 
Truther.... You guys don't believe somewhere in the vicinity of, ohhh... about 100% of the evidence the government put forth. That's why you claim you want a new independent investigation in the first place.

Independent of the government.

On what bearing then does the evidence the government is supposedly withholding have on you and your fellow truthers pursuing an INDEPENDENT investigation?

Come on. You people have done your own "research". You have your two "experts". What more exactly do you need for this new investigation wholly independent of the feds and anyone who's ever been involved with, paid for by, or received grants from the government?

.... The fact is that you know that any investigation would have to be taken seriously by the public at large for your movement to affect any change. In order to do that, you need a number of scientists, structural engineers, and countless other experts to agree to do this. Unfortunately for you, 99.9999999999999999999999999% of them think it's a waste of time because their peers have already conducted an investigation (and because they're being paid off of course).

So my guess is you'll go overseas, where anti-American sentiment is rampant (and ironically, where the original 9/11 conspiracy theory was hatched) and get THEIR experts to sign off on this. Then it'll just come down to peer-pressure. And look how well that's been able to shape US policy so far.

Long story short. You and your ilk are all full of [rule8]. But best of luck to ya' anyway.

I'm sure it'll be an entertaining show.
 
kevin said:
A lot of fence sitters don't post, but read the messages between debunkers and deniers.
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I agree. I know I've learned a lot from conversations I've found while doing web searches. Probably, the fence sitters are more valuable than the screen name one is arguing with.
 
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realitybites said:
Truther.... You guys don't believe somewhere in the vicinity of, ohhh... about 100% of the evidence the government put forth. That's why you claim you want a new independent investigation in the first place.

Independent of the government.

On what bearing then does the evidence the government is supposedly withholding have on you and your fellow truthers pursuing an INDEPENDENT investigation?
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Sharp point.
 
Greyl:

Balls on the table aside, lol, alot of people here are actually more DEM than REP. I wouldn't say I am far left, but I tend to be liberal on most issues. I accept gay marriage, I am undecided on the abortion issue, but as a healthcare professional I provide my patients with the info they need to seek which ever choice they want to make. It is unethical to let my personal views get in the way of treating my patients. I am a firm believer in "workfare" and I live in a country that provides healthcare to everyone curtesy of my taxes. So where that leaves me in the end, on the political front, I am unsure, but thats where it is.

TAM
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
We're waiting for the government to release the mountain of evidence we know they have, for one thing. How bout the old Pentagon videos? Those would be a start. How about the NTSB plane crash reports? They did investigate the crashes and document all the serialized plane parts, as per federal law, didn't they? They didn't? What?

How about the recordings of the phone calls, instead of transcripts? How about that tape of the air traffic controllers? How about the photos of plane wreckage around columns inside the Pentagon, that the PM guys talked about? I haven't seen those.

How about the blueprints to the twin towers? How about the data from the NIST computer models?
Click to expand...

Just as you know nothing about science, you know nothing about law. The "government" is not required to release to the public any of the things that you have listed above, and in some instances, they are probably not even entitled to release same.

And since you claim that 9/11 was an inside job and that the "government" was complicit in the whole thing, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to sit about "waiting" for the complicit parties to voluntarily release the evidence that you delude yourself into believing will prove that they engineered the whole thing.

So why are you "waiting" for the government to release evidence when the obvious route is to get your act together, cobble together some facts (I know that's a stretch for troofers but hey, I'm just trying to be helpful here), sue them, and compel them to provide all of the relevant evidence in their possession?

Just like 99% of troofers, you bitch and whine on the internet yet you never lift a finger to actually DO anything to further your alleged search for "the truth" other than... bitch and whine on the internet (oh, and conduct google searches occasionally). Hell, you didn't even spend 5 seconds composing an email asking for blueprints or drawings until someone here provided you with a link today. There is something very wrong about whining and complaining about being unable to access information when you have never even tried to access the information. Yet, for all these years, in your oh so heroic and intense quest for truth, you didn't even spend those 5 seconds until today.

Stop whining and start DOING. Troofers like to claim that a pretty significant percentage of the U.S. agrees with them about 9/11 being an inside job, so why don't you DO something about that? Rally the troops. Put things in motion. Bring a lawsuit. Do some fundraising to pay for it. With the numbers that troofers claim, surely the funding shouldn't be a problem to at least start a lawsuit and get discovery underway to force the release of all the sooper sekrit documents and evidence that you are so sure exists.

So, go to it.
 
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T.A.M. said:
if you are petgoat at DU, than like I said, i am done. I did not invent "imaginary" complications. You may have seen it that way. Believe what you want, it won't change anything.

If you are not, than oh well. I am just tired of beating my head off the brick wall with people that do not use Logic and Solid Evidence to explain things...so I will just continue to make the info available to those who seek it, so that wingnuts don't get their slimy hands into them without someone there to help remove the talons.

TAM
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TAM:

Greyleonard is most certainly not petgoat at DU. He is greyl at DU and he's a totally standup guy. I suspect that the person calling himself "truthseeker1234" here is probably petgoat at DU and I think (but grey can correct me if I'm wrong) that grey was just commenting on another standard BS spiel of the petgoat persona (the "inventing imaginary complications" bit which petgoat uses when he can't think of any other way to explain his stupid assertions).

EDIT: sorry, I had not read the rest of the thread when I first responded to your post, but I see now that you've got it all sorted. I just leapt in quickly because I know for a fact that grey is a terrific guy and is absolutely NOT a CTer and he puts petgoat to shame on a regular basis. Sorry for the premature response.
 
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no problem. You'd think in my line of work I'd be able to pick up on things like sarcasm, but I usually have the person infront of me, where I can read their facial expression, the intonation in their voice etc...

Greyl seems pretty cool. No issues. Petgoat, however, is just a wingnut.

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
Greyl:
Balls on the table aside, lol, alot of people here are actually more DEM than REP.
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I thought that would be the trend. Thanks for brushing my balls aside.:D

T.A.M.;1920877: said:
I wouldn't say I am far left, but I tend to be liberal on most issues. I accept gay marriage, I am undecided on the abortion issue, but as a healthcare professional I provide my patients with the info they need to seek which ever choice they want to make. It is unethical to let my personal views get in the way of treating my patients. I am a firm believer in "workfare" and I live in a country that provides healthcare to everyone curtesy of my taxes. So where that leaves me in the end, on the political front, I am unsure, but thats where it is.

TAM
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Yes, plus mother culture's definitions of left and right are too nebulous to be of any practical use.
 
LashL said:
So why are you "waiting" for the government to release evidence when the obvious route is to get your act together, cobble together some facts (I know that's a stretch for troofers but hey, I'm just trying to be helpful here), sue them, and compel them to provide all of the relevant evidence in their possession?
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Just a note that this is a common scam in anti-tax conspiracy theory groups. Some guru promises to sue the gov't to prove taxes are illegal but while we're working on the case could you donate a few thousand to help with legal fees? The promises drag on forever and the cases never materialize.

Then the guru is arrested for tax evasion, and his case will be the one that works (finally) but in the meantime could you donate a few thousand to help with legal fees?
 
LashL said:
Just like 99% of troofers, you bitch and whine on the internet yet you never lift a finger to actually DO anything to further your alleged search for "the truth" other than... bitch and whine on the internet (oh, and conduct google searches occasionally). Hell, you didn't even spend 5 seconds composing an email asking for blueprints or drawings until someone here provided you with a link today. There is something very wrong about whining and complaining about being unable to access information when you have never even tried to access the information. Yet, for all these years, in your oh so heroic and intense quest for truth, you didn't even spend those 5 seconds until today.

Stop whining and start DOING. Troofers like to claim that a pretty significant percentage of the U.S. agrees with them about 9/11 being an inside job, so why don't you DO something about that? Rally the troops. Put things in motion. Bring a lawsuit. Do some fundraising to pay for it. With the numbers that troofers claim, surely the funding shouldn't be a problem to at least start a lawsuit and get discovery underway to force the release of all the sooper sekrit documents and evidence that you are so sure exists.

So, go to it.
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Exactly. I've said for a long time that if I honestly believed that the government murdered three thousand fellow citizens, I'd be doing a lot more than just sitting around whining about it on the internet. (Not to mention the stupidity of creating a trail for said evil government to track me down later when the dust settles.) Which leads me to believe that most CTers don't believe what they say. Not really.* Oh, they'll claim they do. But at the end of the day, when real men and women would do a gut-check and get ready to fight for what they believe, CTers pull up short.

Think about it. You honestly believe your government murdered three thousand men, women and children and is now covering it up. Your solution: Spam internet message boards.

Oh, yeah, you've got the perps on the run now.

Please.

* ETA: I could be wrong. They may actually be the stupidest f*ckng people on the planet.
 
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