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Old 14th September 2006, 12:19 PM   #1
rikzilla
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Mr. Jowenko of Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie B.V. Indeed supports CD theory of WTC #7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqrn5x2_f6Q

Check out the vid. Mr. Jowenko (an explosive demo expert) is shown a video clip of the north face of WTC 7 falling and proclaims it a CD. I complained on the UK 911 site that they had not placed the event in context for Mr. Jowenko and thus his reaction is merely a first impression.

I then researched him and found this site:
http://www.jowenko.nl/

With the following contact info:
Quote:
Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie B.V.
Veerseweg 107
NL – 4351 SL VEERE
Nederland
Tel: +31 118 612735
Fax: +31 118 612779
Mobiel: +31 653 24 21 25
E mail: info@jowenko.com
I then called Jowenko Inc posing as a reporter for the Washington Post (my bad, but hey I figured I might get an on-the-record comment) To my amazement I was put right thru to Mr. Jowenko. He's a very nice gentleman who speaks great english. I told him that WTC7 burned extensively and had a gaping 20 story hole in it...I told him just about all I knew of the building from my own research. The fires fed by fuel tanks...the arangement of the columns to accomidate the pre-existing Con-Ed substation....

The guy then went on the record saying that he thinks that "due to the intelligence operations housed in that building it was brought down by a controlled demolition"

That my friends is a direct quote from his mouth to my ear about 5 mins ago!

I'm rather stunned! They picked one off!

-z
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Last edited by rikzilla; 14th September 2006 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:21 PM   #2
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yes, he was able to determine it was CD by one video ?
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Arus808 View Post
yes, he was able to determine it was CD by one video ?
...taken from the wrong angle?
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:25 PM   #4
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That is great. He is laughable.

His quote was not, "Based on my expert opinion of all the facts and evidence from the 9/11 investigation, that WTC7 was a CD", but rather, "based on the neocon documents in the building, it had to be a CD."

Nice or not, he is either a kook, or brainwashed by the CTers.

TAM
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
The guy then went on the record saying that he thinks that "due to the intelligence operations housed in that building it was brought down by a controlled demolition"

-z
So the rules wich govern controlled demolition are dependant upon what kind of people worked inside the building to be demolished?
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:27 PM   #6
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We must let him know that the demolitions experts who were on the scene disagree!

Quote:
Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event.

We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

As one eyewitness told us, "We were all standing around helpless...we knew full well it was going to collapse. Everyone there knew. You gotta remember there was a lot of confusion and we didn't know if another plane was coming...but I never heard explosions like demo charges. We knew with the damage to the building and how hot the fire was, that building was gonna go, so we just waited, and a little later it went. " http://tinyurl.com/m5kf5
Edit: I emailed him with this info.
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Arus808 View Post
yes, he was able to determine it was CD by one video ?
Go figure...

The guy didn't sound like a loon. I have no idea why a guy who does explosive demo and owns a company that does CD's would subscribe to such a loony theory based on the evidence of one video.

My own theory is that his colleagues are gonna eat him for lunch.

-z
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:29 PM   #8
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He didn't know this happened on 9/11 and didn't know the damage on the south side or there where fires raging through the building.

Last edited by Bell; 14th September 2006 at 12:31 PM. Reason: >.<
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqrn5x2_f6Q

Check out the vid. Mr. Jowenko (an explosive demo expert) is shown a video clip of the north face of WTC 7 falling and proclaims it a CD. I complained on the UK 911 site that they had not placed the event in context for Mr. Jowenko and thus his reaction is merely a first impression.

I then researched him and found this site:
http://www.jowenko.nl/

With the following contact info:


I then called Jowenko Inc posing as a reporter for the Washington Post (my bad, but hey I figured I might get an on-the-record comment) To my amazement I was put right thru to Mr. Jowenko. He's a very nice gentleman who speaks great english. I told him that WTC7 burned extensively and had a gaping 20 story hole in it...I told him just about all I knew of the building from my own research. The fires fed by fuel tanks...the arangement of the columns to accomidate the pre-existing Con-Ed substation....

The guy then went on the record saying that he thinks that "due to the intelligence operations housed in that building it was brought down by a controlled demolition"

That my friends is a direct quote from his mouth to my ear about 5 mins ago!

I'm rather stunned! They picked one off!

-z
One thing that might be important to point out to him. I believe he stated that all the columns were blown at the same time.
His quote: "It must all go at the same time"
However the progressive collapse of the penthouse (before the rest of the structure) makes that one really unlikely to say the least.

Last edited by Kent1; 14th September 2006 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
We must let him know that the demolitions experts who were on the scene disagree!
Gravy...I misrepresented myself to him since I really thought he'd just tell me
he had a first impression that was wrong and has since changed his mind. Now I can't possibly argue too much with him as remember I'm a reporter looking for an on the record comment. He gave it to me. What am I to say now?

I did a bad thing...at least I feel kinda dirty for lying to the guy...please feel free to contact him Gravy. I told him all I could to insure he had context. the fires..the hole...the fuel...the debris strikes...the Con-Ed substation....everything!

I honestly don't know what more I can stay...and I started with a lie for which I'm pretty sorry on retrospect.

-z
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Go figure...

The guy didn't sound like a loon. I have no idea why a guy who does explosive demo and owns a company that does CD's would subscribe to such a loony theory based on the evidence of one video.

My own theory is that his colleagues are gonna eat him for lunch.

-z
maybe contacting his "colleagues" to get their opinin would be a good rebuttal?
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:35 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
He didn't know this happened on 9/11 and didn't know the damage on the south side or there where fires raging through the building.
I just talked to him. He knows these things believe me! He has the context and background. He stuck to his guns.

-z
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:42 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
I just talked to him. He knows these things believe me! He has the context and background. He stuck to his guns.

-z
But they told him only after he watched that one video. He even asked a couple of times if this realy happened on 9/11.

But I was only remarking on this particulair interview. I haven't followed up on him.
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
But they told him only after he watched that one video. He even asked a couple of times if this realy happened on 9/11.

But I was only remarking on this particulair interview. I haven't followed up on him.
Well he's had plenty of time by now to reflect on his opinion. Also I made damned sure he knew it was 9/11 and that there was extensive damage and fire. He calmly told what he thought was a WaPo reporter "on the record" that in his opinion it was a CD.

That's very simply how it went.

Weird huh?
-z
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Old 14th September 2006, 12:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Go figure...

The guy didn't sound like a loon. I have no idea why a guy who does explosive demo and owns a company that does CD's would subscribe to such a loony theory based on the evidence of one video.

My own theory is that his colleagues are gonna eat him for lunch.

-z
I'm guessing he's looking for work
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Old 14th September 2006, 01:07 PM   #16
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This is an in interesting interview, I've heard they are gonna sent out the complete interview, the raw version, I hope I can get it then.

Mr. Jowenko doesn't believe the twin towers contained explosives, that would be a year to "wire" the building. And why would they not go off at celsius 320 ? The same can be said about wtc7 of course.

I know those smart Dutch journalists, he rejected the idea of CD for wtc1 and wtc2. Then they showed that other building (not giving any information about it, he didn't know it like most people I speak haven't heard about it) and that was CD because it just falls down like the floor became weak, someone who is better in English gave me a new translation:

Interviewer: On September 11, 2001 there were fires within [the building], but a plane never crashed into it.
Int.: Nevertheless, this building collapsed on September 11th.
Int.: This event didn't receive much attention; and, moreover, Denni Jowenko had never heard of it.
Int.: His reaction to the film we are showing him is unprejudiced.

Denni Jowenko: Did it seem to go [i.e., come down] from above? No, it starts from below.
D.J.: They simply blew away columns. Then the upper part follows [lit., comes after].

Int.: Did this fall in a different way than the World Trade Center [Buildings 1 and 2]?

D.J.: Don't you think so?

Int.: Yes, you [can] see the first floors going first.

D.J.: The rest simply falls into it.
D.J.: This is controlled demolition.

Int.: Without any doubt?

D.J.: Without any doubt.
D.J.: Certainly it came down from the top; this was a [deliberate] job.
D.J.: A team of experts did this.

Int.: But this also happened on September 11th.

D.J.: The same day?

Int.: The same day.

D.J.: The same day?!
D.J.: Are you sure?

Int.: Yes.

D.J.: Are you sure it was on the 11th?
D.J.: That can't be true.

Int.: Seven hours after the World Trade Center [Buildings 1 and 2] came down.

D.J.: Then they worked very hard.

Int.: In the official FEMA report, it couldn't be explained why Building 7 collapsed.

Int.: We discuss all the possibilities extensively with Denni Jowenko.
Int.: But his conclusion doesn't change: it was blown up.

D.J.: This was professional work, without any doubt.
D.J.: Those boys knew very well what they were doing.

Int.: The question is then whether it was prepared beforehand.
Int.: Or could it have been decided on on September 11th itself and been carried out?
Int.: How many men and how much time would you need to do it?

D.J.: I don't know exactly, but ...

Int.: Could you give an estimate?

D.J.: You would need experienced people. But, if you had 30-40 people, then ...
D.J.: A few with a plasma [?] cutter.
D.J.: And others assembling.
D.J.: And others to connect the dead cables with the boosters.
D.J.: It must all go at the same moment.
D.J.: And a third [team] setting off the electronic system.
D.J.: And then it goes.

Int.: There was fire everywhere, and also in that building.

D.J.: And not extinguished?

Int.: No, not extinguished. The men who would have done that would have had to have do it while fire was still burning inside [the building].

D.J.: That's strange. That's strange. I also think that's strange.
D.J.: I have no explanation for it.


As far as I know he is no conspiracy-nutter, just a practical guy, to me he looks like the "no talk and ******** but work" type of guy.

Oh, if fire and debris is the reason why would that debris hit wtc7 football fields away, that is contradiction with F.R.Greening as I said 10 times before. Please read Greening and check his model, for those with no math or physics background, don't be intimidated by some algebra. He uses excel because the exact solution is very cumbersome, I tried a simplification but if that exists he would have written that down already.
How difficult will a realistic physical model be then ?

ps. I get some emotional reactions in my youtube box, glad that I'm anonymous.
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Old 14th September 2006, 01:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
He didn't know this happened on 9/11 and didn't know the damage on the south side or there where fires raging through the building.
Yes, did you see his reaction at the end when they told him the building was also on fire? "That's very strange."

Sorry for the spam, but this is the email I sent to him. It's handy to have this info at one's fingertips, for this very reason. I'll contact him in a few days to see if he'd like to revise his position.

Dear Mr. Jowenko,

It has come to my attention that you may believe that World Trade Center building 7 was destroyed by demolitions charges, perhaps due to the sensitive nature of some of the information stored there. Of course, it would make much more sense to remove the information or hard drives it was stored on than to wire the building for demolitions. And absolutely no sign of demolitions preparation, installation, or blast effects was seen at any time. I hope you will take the time to review the information below.

First, after the towers fell, demolitions experts came to the scene and witnessed the collapse of WTC building 7.

"Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event.

We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

As one eyewitness told us, "We were all standing around helpless...we knew full well it was going to collapse. Everyone there knew. You gotta remember there was a lot of confusion and we didn't know if another plane was coming...but I never heard explosions like demo charges. We knew with the damage to the building and how hot the fire was, that building was gonna go, so we just waited, and a little later it went. " http://tinyurl.com/m5kf5

Next, all of the reports of the firefighters who were inside and outside building 7 indicated that its collapse was imminent. The building sustained very heavy damage from the collapse of the towers, and had uncontrolled fires in it for seven hours.

Essential reading: NIST's WTC 7 Interim Report: http://tinyurl.com/klmvd

Images of debris and debris damage:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/879044bd1b32e04c8.jpg
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...95ccfd1d8d.jpg
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/879044e7bca52f0db.jpg
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...95ccfa338b.jpg
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/879044e7bca5532d3.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...579cd55d1f.jpg
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/879044a579cd17937.jpg

Videos of the south side of WTC 7, late afternoon on 11 September: http://tinyurl.com/f3tvd http://tinyurl.com/zg4un

In another video clip, Ashleigh Banfield of MSNBC is interviewing a woman when WTC 7 collapses in the background. Banfield: "This is it!" Newsman Brian Williams: "What we've been fearing all afternoon has apparently happened. We've been watching number 7 World Trade, which was part of the ancillary damage of the explosion and collapse of the other two." Watch it here: http://tinyurl.com/o58sa

Report from a worker in WTC 7:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1918455&postcount=49

Reports from firefighters about WTC 7's condition:

"The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt." – Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro [Fire Engineering, 10/2002]

"7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved." –Firefighter Steve Modica http://tinyurl.com/mc898.

"So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn't look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn't look good. But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too

Then we received an order from Fellini, we're going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn't look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn't really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I'm standing next to said, that building doesn't look straight. So I'm standing there. I'm looking at the building. It didn't look right, but, well, we'll go in, we'll see.

So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandeis came running up. He said forget it, nobody's going into 7, there's creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned. 
– Capt. Chris Boyle http://tinyurl.com/e7bzp

"They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. ... I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there. Finally it did come down. From there this is much later on in the day, because every day [sic] we were so worried about that build-ing we didn't really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down." - Richard Banaciski http://tinyurl.com/jbg8l

"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the af-ternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department http://tinyurl.com/g8c6y

"Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the col-lapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we in-structed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers http://tinyurl.com/gy2f9

"Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o'clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we've] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy.... The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn't] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that's] when 7 collapsed.... Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess." - Lieutenant William Ryan http://tinyurl.com/kptv2

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side? 



Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it. 



Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many? 



Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we'll head back to the command post. 

– Capt. Chris Boyle http://tinyurl.com/eofwh

Hayden: By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse. 



Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?

Hayden: No, not right away, and that's probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn't make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the col-lapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety. 



Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out?

Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn't want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn't even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn't know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back. It came down about 5 o'clock or so, but we had every-body backed away by then. –Deputy Chief Peter Hayden http://tinyurl.com/zwtrs

The next thing I did was we saw a fire starting to show at windows in 7 World Trade Center, decided to go in and try and see if there was anybody in the building and/or put out the fires, and we did a search from floor to floor of 7 World Trade Center passing fire on floors 3, 7, 9. The standpipes had no water. We tried to extinguish a few fires with cans. When we got to 11, there was just too much smoke and we decided that, without water, if we went any higher, we'd be on fool's mission.

So we left 7 World Trade Center, back down to the street, where I ran into Chief Coloe from the 1st Division, Captain Varriale, Engine 24, and Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did. –Lieutenant Rudolph Weindler http://tinyurl.com/q2eb6

WTC Building 7 appears to have suffered significant damage at some point after the WTC Towers had collapsed, according to firefighters at the scene. Firefighter Butch Brandies tells other firefighters that nobody is to go into Building 7 because of creaking and noises coming out of there. [Firehouse Magazine, 8/02]

"The firefighters made the decision fairly early on not to attempt to fight the fires, due in part to the damage to WTC 7 from the collapsing towers." FEMA WTC BPS, 5/1/2002, pp. 5-21

I remember at that time also they were worried about Building 7 because when the second tower came down, they were worried about parts of -- actually, when the first tower came down, they were worried about parts of Building 7 collapsing, so I remember getting into Building 7 and searching. –Firefighter Anthony Salerno http://tinyurl.com/lzj4t

Battalion Chief John Norman later recalls, "At the edge of the south face you could see that it is very heavily damaged." [Firehouse Magazine, 5/02]

[Shortly after the tower collapses] I dont know how long this was going on, but I remember standing there looking over at building 7 and realizing that a big chunk of the lower floors had been taken out on the Vesey Street side. I looked up at the building and I saw smoke in it, but I really didnt see any fire at that time. Deputy ––Chief Nick Visconti http://tinyurl.com/paqux

Yes, I watched 7. At one point, we were standing on the west side of West Street and Vesey. And I remember Chief Nigro coming back at that point saying I dont want anybody else killed and to take everybody two blocks up virtually to North End and Vesey, which is a good ways up. And we stood there and we watched 7 collapse. –Chief Joseph Pfiefer http://tinyurl.com/5fuog

For instance, Dr. Guttenberg and Dr. Asaeda, who were at 7 World Trade Center, they got trapped in there and had to like climb in and out and get out because that building also became very damaged supposedly and they were there. We thought they were dead. I guess he was in an area where Commissioner Tierney might have been, I believe. I think she was in 7 also. –Paramedic Manuel Del-gado http://tinyurl.com/oyl85

That was another problem, to wait for building seven to come down, because that was unsecure. It was about 5:30 that building came down. –Paremedic Steven Pilla http://tinyurl.com/odgdp

"The consensus was that it was basically a lost cause and we should not lose anyone else trying to save it." Along with some others, he goes inside WTC 7 and yells up the stairwells to the fire fighters, "Drop everything and get out." September 11th," Dean Murphy, 2002, pp. 175-176]

*************

I hope this information has helped you to understand that building 7 was not brought down by controlled demolition. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. I have much more information should you desire it.

Best regards,


Mark Roberts
Brooklyn, New York
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Old 14th September 2006, 01:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Gravy...I misrepresented myself to him since I really thought he'd just tell me
he had a first impression that was wrong and has since changed his mind. Now I can't possibly argue too much with him as remember I'm a reporter looking for an on the record comment. He gave it to me. What am I to say now?

I did a bad thing...at least I feel kinda dirty for lying to the guy...please feel free to contact him Gravy. I told him all I could to insure he had context. the fires..the hole...the fuel...the debris strikes...the Con-Ed substation....everything!

I honestly don't know what more I can stay...and I started with a lie for which I'm pretty sorry on retrospect.

-z
The CTs were going to make a fuss over it anyway. As far as he knows, I got the info from YouTube. I'll give him a day or two and then see if he's had a chance to review the info I sent.
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Old 14th September 2006, 01:45 PM   #19
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I found the complete wtc7 interview online, my fragment was indeed cut and paste work

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams...11extra-hi.asf

It will be a major job to add subtitles but I'm gonna contact them to provide professional English subtitles for that uncutted wtc7 interview.

Last edited by einsteen; 14th September 2006 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 14th September 2006, 02:02 PM   #20
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gravy, a lot of your links in that message are not working (its like you tinyurled, links grabbed from a forum which truncates urls for posts).
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Old 14th September 2006, 02:13 PM   #21
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Jowenko didn't study the collapse, he was just asked by a Dutch TV program what he thought the collapses LOOKED like. They first showed him the footage of WTC1&2 collapsing and he told the program that it didn't look like a controlled demolition. Then they showed him the WTC7, which he had never heard about, and he told the program it LOOKED like a controlled demolition.

I think it's mostly due to that the footage he was shown doesn't show the whole WTC7.
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Old 14th September 2006, 02:34 PM   #22
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Yesterday, I sent this guy a link to the implosionworld.com pdf. No reply as yet. I wonder how he is going to deal with the lack of seismic data for the "explosions".
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Old 14th September 2006, 03:03 PM   #23
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At least he dismisses the notion that the Towers were demolished, the Deniers cant get too wrapped up in their support for this guy for that reason alone.

I also find it interesting that the reason he cites for it being a demo is "the sensitive nature of the documents it housed", rather than some detailed technical explanation. I guess paper shredders were sold out at the local Staples, so they couldnt make use of the "easy" button.

Rikzilla, did you ask him why the these explosives were so silent?
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Arus808 View Post
gravy, a lot of your links in that message are not working (its like you tinyurled, links grabbed from a forum which truncates urls for posts).
Oops, I forgot that happens when I copy them from my email. They'll all be in my new LC Guide, which I hope to finish this weekend.
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:21 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by apathoid View Post
At least he dismisses the notion that the Towers were demolished, the Deniers cant get too wrapped up in their support for this guy for that reason alone.

I also find it interesting that the reason he cites for it being a demo is "the sensitive nature of the documents it housed", rather than some detailed technical explanation. I guess paper shredders were sold out at the local Staples, so they couldnt make use of the "easy" button.
I think he means that the documents petulantly refused to be shredded or removed from the building, therefore they had to be blown up.

I find it funny that the same people who use the "sensitive information" argument for WTC 7 also use the "sensitive information was recovered from hard drives in the Twin Towers by Convar" argument.
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:30 PM   #26
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RocksIn the head started this thread at LC. Funny how they are ok with him not thinking the towers were CD. Talk about desperate. They're big fans of RZilla!

http://www.unipeak.com/gethtml.php?_...RvcGljPTEzODI3
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:33 PM   #27
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I'd be curious to know why he thinks that carrying out a hopelessly complex, extremely expensive, unsurpassably attention-getting plan of destroying an entire building, which would be highly likely to leave some of those sensitive documents lying in and around the rubble for cleanup workers to find, is better than quietly destroying the documents in the office.

I mean, the cost of the latter method would be a few hundred bucks at the office supply store, the wages for the office staff who do the destruction and perhaps some pizzas for said staff.
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by apathoid View Post
At least he dismisses the notion that the Towers were demolished, the Deniers cant get too wrapped up in their support for this guy for that reason alone.

I also find it interesting that the reason he cites for it being a demo is "the sensitive nature of the documents it housed", rather than some detailed technical explanation. I guess paper shredders were sold out at the local Staples, so they couldnt make use of the "easy" button.

Rikzilla, did you ask him why the these explosives were so silent?
And the out-of-control fires in the building couldn't destroy documents?
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Old 14th September 2006, 04:49 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
The guy then went on the record saying that he thinks that "due to the intelligence operations housed in that building it was brought down by a controlled demolition"
Sounds like he is influenced by suggestions made in the original documentary. I just saw the unedited interview with him, and in it he offers several speculations why the building may have been demolished. One of those was that because there was a fire in the building, steel in it is weakened and perhaps the owner thought it was too expensive to replace it. He does not say anything about intelligence operations in the building, probably because he didn't know about it.

The official website for the documentary series is here. The original documentary can be viewed with English subtitles. Maybe the interview with Jowenko is going to be available with English subtitles as well.

I also started a thread on the documentary here.
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Old 14th September 2006, 05:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dog Town View Post
RocksIn the head started this thread at LC. Funny how they are ok with him not thinking the towers were CD. Talk about desperate. They're big fans of RZilla!

http://www.unipeak.com/gethtml.php?_...RvcGljPTEzODI3
Originally Posted by Roxdog
The post patheteic cult following of all time

These peope are brainless, souless pieces of sh%t....and to date none have agreed to come on my show.
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Old 14th September 2006, 05:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
Man their trolling extends beyond the internet! Pretty sad.
Indeed......

Quote:
Avery: Ground Zero this year is gonna be nuts. It's gonna be so insane. I mean, I can't wait. I mean, we're gonna have thousands of people there.
And the absolute classic


Quote:
The JREF'ers are telling this guy that there were fires and tanks and damage and blah blah and the guy still sticks to his guns and then they wonder why. I'm not a CD expert and i could tell the first time i saw that building fall that it was CD. The JREF'ers are completely uneducated and uninformed
http://www.unipeak.com/gethtml.php?_...RvcGljPTEzODI3



(I just wanted to post the laughing dog).
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Old 14th September 2006, 05:54 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by stateofgrace View Post
Indeed......
And the absolute classic
Quote:
The JREF'ers are telling this guy that there were fires and tanks and damage and blah blah and the guy still sticks to his guns and then they wonder why. I'm not a CD expert and i could tell the first time i saw that building fall that it was CD. The JREF'ers are completely uneducated and uninformed
Uh, yeah, that would be the FDNY and the CD experts on the scene who you're accusing of being uneducated and uninformed, "no CD expert."
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Old 14th September 2006, 06:12 PM   #33
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http://tagesanzeiger.ch/dyn/news/ausland/663864.html

Quote:
«Wir wissen einfach nicht, was im WTC 7 genau passiert ist», so Mario Fontana, amtierender Professor am ETH-Institut für Baustatik und Konstruktion (IBK). An Konferenzen von Baustatik-Experten habe man in den vergangenen fünf Jahren nur sehr wenig zum Einsturz von WTC 7 erfahren. Es sei zumindest denkbar, dass ein lange anhaltender Brand das Gebäude zum Einsturz gebracht habe. [...]

«Nach meiner Meinung ist das Gebäude WTC 7 mit grosser Wahrscheinlichkeit fachgerecht gesprengt worden», sagt Hugo Bachmann, emeritierter ETH-Professor für Baustatik und Konstruktion. Und auch Jörg Schneider, ebenfalls emeritierter ETH-Professor für Baustatik und Konstruktion, deutet die wenigen vorhandenen Videoaufnahmen als Hinweise, dass «das Gebäude WTC 7 mit grosser Wahrscheinlichkeit gesprengt wurde».
ETH is in Zürich, Switzerland. Rough translation:

Quote:
"We simply don't know what happened in WTC7" says Mario Fontana, incumbent Professor at ETH institute for structural analysis and construction (IBK). During the last five years, only very few informations concerning the collapse of WTC7 were heard at conferences of structural engineers, he said. For him it is at least thinkable that a long lasting fire brought the building down. [...]

"In my opinion WTC7 was with the utmost probability brought down by controlled demolition done by experts" says Hugo Bachmann, Professor emeritus for structural analysis and construction at ETH. And also Jörg Schneider, another Professor emeritus for structural analysis and construction at ETH, interprets the small number of existing videos as indices that "WTC7 was with the utmost probability brought down by explosives".
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Old 14th September 2006, 06:34 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
http://tagesanzeiger.ch/dyn/news/ausland/663864.html
ETH is in Zürich, Switzerland. Rough translation:
Thanks. Looks like I have some more emailing to do. It'll help me brush up on my German.
CTs are more fun in foreign languages:
Quote:
Die zweite Theorie, die so genannte «Let-It-Happen-on-Purpose-Theorie» («Lass es absichtlich passieren», Lihop), behauptet, Bin Laden und das Al-Qaida-Netzwerk hätten den Anschlag geplant und ausführen lassen.
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Old 14th September 2006, 06:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
http://tagesanzeiger.ch/dyn/news/ausland/663864.html

"We simply don't know what happened in WTC7" says Mario Fontana, incumbent Professor at ETH institute for structural analysis and construction (IBK). During the last five years, only very few informations concerning the collapse of WTC7 were heard at conferences of structural engineers, he said. For him it is at least thinkable that a long lasting fire brought the building down. [...]

"In my opinion WTC7 was with the utmost probability brought down by controlled demolition done by experts" says Hugo Bachmann, Professor emeritus for structural analysis and construction at ETH. And also Jörg Schneider, another Professor emeritus for structural analysis and construction at ETH, interprets the small number of existing videos as indices that "WTC7 was with the utmost probability brought down by explosives".



ETH is in Zürich, Switzerland. Rough translation:

Bold is mine.

So they weren’t there, carried out no tests, spoke to no witnesses and have not read a single document on it, but have seen a video and drawn their conclusion, way to go.
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Old 14th September 2006, 06:46 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Thanks. Looks like I have some more emailing to do. It'll help me brush up on my German.
CTs are more fun in foreign languages:
No problem. I feel a little bad for exposing these two older Professors to the international CTs on both sides but as long as it's all honest and no one lies, i think it is important to have all informations out in the open.
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Old 14th September 2006, 06:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by stateofgrace View Post
Bold is mine.

So they weren’t there, carried out no tests, spoke to no witnesses and have not read a single document on it, but have seen a video and drawn their conclusion, way to go.
Yep. And the video probably had LC's head-banging music overdubbed so they couldn't not hear any explosions.

This is pretty messed up.
Quote:
Der Eigentümer von WTC 1, WTC 2 und WTC 7, Larry Silverstein, erinnerte sich ein Jahr nach den Anschlägen im September 2002 im US-Fernsehen an den Einsturz von WTC 7. Die Feuerwehr habe ihn informiert, dass es im Haus brenne. Darauf sagte Silverstein gemäss seinen eigenen Angaben: «Vielleicht ist es am besten, wenn wir es sprengen» («to pull it»). «Und so haben sie entschieden, es zu sprengen, und wir schauten zu, wie das Gebäude runterkam.» Später verteidigte sich Silverstein, er habe mit «pull it» die «Feuerwehrmänner evakuieren» gemeint. Worauf 9/11-Kritiker wie US-Millionär Jimmy Walter betonten, das sei Unsinn, «it» müsse sich auf eine Sache beziehen.
Here they're saying, if I read it correctly, that first Silverstein said "Perhaps it's best if we blow it up" and later said he meant "Evacuate the firefighters." But "pull" can have several meanings in English, even stretching to "make a building fall over," whereas I think "sprengen" in this context can only mean "blow up."

Or maybe I just shouldn't try translating German.
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Old 14th September 2006, 07:03 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Yep. And the video probably had LC's head-banging music overdubbed so they couldn't not hear any explosions.

This is pretty messed up.
Here they're saying, if I read it correctly, that first Silverstein said "Perhaps it's best if we blow it up" and later said he meant "Evacuate the firefighters." But "pull" can have several meanings in English, even stretching to "make a building fall over," whereas I think "sprengen" in this context can only mean "blow up."

Or maybe I just shouldn't try translating German.
So now he is using the "pull-it" ca(na)rd? Methinks that this guy has been to one too many Denier sites, and he is eating up the bovine excrement offered to him. Its amazing how even distinguished college professors can get caught up in the BS and cannot think for themselves. Maybe we should point these gentlemen to the "Scholars" for "Truth" website...
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Old 14th September 2006, 07:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by rikzilla View Post
Gravy...I misrepresented myself to him since I really thought he'd just tell me
he had a first impression that was wrong and has since changed his mind. Now I can't possibly argue too much with him as remember I'm a reporter looking for an on the record comment. He gave it to me. What am I to say now?

I did a bad thing...at least I feel kinda dirty for lying to the guy...please feel free to contact him Gravy. I told him all I could to insure he had context. the fires..the hole...the fuel...the debris strikes...the Con-Ed substation....everything!

I honestly don't know what more I can stay...and I started with a lie for which I'm pretty sorry on retrospect.

-z
Lies in the CT realm? unheard of....
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Old 14th September 2006, 07:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Or maybe I just shouldn't try translating German.
Your translation is correct, Gravy.
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