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Old 23rd August 2007, 05:48 AM   #601
calebprime
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Originally Posted by hdeasy View Post
So – some have visited the public forum. I am a member of the SPDC (private – NDA needed) and it is much more orderly there, as we have more scientists etc. Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.

Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.

Finally, the mechanism has been explained – very simple, and I wrote a Fortran sim to convince myself of it. It actually works – as long as a stator magnet is not depleted, and it doesn’t look like it would be – test plots showing this to be the case have been presented by Steorn and some forum members have come close to reproducing the setup – one of them says he had an 8 hour run before something loosened up. Now none of this is substitute for the 22 Jury members and their report – but it’s pretty damn good.

Coming soon for the cognoscenti 7 of us were selected to test the tech themselves.. That activity will start in a few weeks time.

So – it’s all go: no sign of closing up shop after the London debacle.




I, for one, eagerly await the wonderful news.


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Old 23rd August 2007, 06:00 AM   #602
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Yeah.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 07:04 AM   #603
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Oh My Dawg! The eight hour story predates the disaster-at-the-gallery! And it was all that was ever leaked out of the sooper sekret klub. Now there's a famous scientist on a video. Another video????
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Old 23rd August 2007, 07:13 AM   #604
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Originally Posted by hdeasy View Post
Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.

Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.

Steorn's original contention appeared to be that they had to follow the course they did (hiring a PR firm, advertising in the Economist for "jurors" etc.) because while they had found scientists who confirmed that the device worked, none of them was prepared to go on the record and say so. As they put it on their website:
Quote:
Those who were prepared to complete testing have all confirmed our claims; however none will publicly go on record.

In early 2006 Steorn decided to seek validation from the scientific community in a more public forum, and as a result have published the challenge in The Economist.

Now it seems that they do have scientists who are prepared to say it works, but it is Steorn who don't want this made public. Can you explain "the story around that" or is it covered by the NDA as well?
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Old 23rd August 2007, 07:37 AM   #605
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@Mojo: We were so concerned with the 1 named scientist that I can't recall queries as to why they were now forbidden and your implied inconsistency.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 08:16 AM   #606
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Is Steorn going to quietly close up shop, grab what's left of the money, and disappear?
And does this answer Troll Chi's original question?
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Old 24th August 2007, 08:34 AM   #607
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Talking

Originally Posted by hdeasy View Post
So – some have visited the public forum. I am a member of the SPDC (private – NDA needed) and it is much more orderly there, as we have more scientists etc. Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.

Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.

Finally, the mechanism has been explained – very simple, and I wrote a Fortran sim to convince myself of it. It actually works – as long as a stator magnet is not depleted, and it doesn’t look like it would be – test plots showing this to be the case have been presented by Steorn and some forum members have come close to reproducing the setup – one of them says he had an 8 hour run before something loosened up. Now none of this is substitute for the 22 Jury members and their report – but it’s pretty damn good.

Coming soon for the cognoscenti 7 of us were selected to test the tech themselves.. That activity will start in a few weeks time.

So – it’s all go: no sign of closing up shop after the London debacle.
Ha, Hdeasy, I see you made it to this forum.

Funny how you posted this new here and not on the official forum from Steorn. Funny also how your psot is also actually 100% devoid of information.
I can substitute "hdeasy said" to "sean said" and we are abck to sqaure one.

How about the following :
* name the skeptic which were "turned" and "convinced" , for example what about enginerd ? Then we can go together on the original forum and ask them what they think about a U-turn ? And we can also check if they were REALLY skeptic or jsut used the definition without the qualification.
* Show us your fortran source code. I am used to the simulation in fortran, this was my main job while I was working on quantum mechanic. Usually HP-Fortran on 4/8 processors. I know from experience that you can fall in a lot of pitfall. So ... how about showing us the source code ? And the model you used (equation / Schemas) ?
* how about naming this scientific/inventor so that we contact him independently ?

But let me guess... You won't be able to do any of this, right ?
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Old 30th August 2007, 07:24 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
About the bearings....

There are duplicate threads on this topic going, and I related this theory that I stole from a guy over on the Steorn forum. (No one follows links around, so I'll repeat it.)

Sean said that the bearings were extremely sensitive because they got them from watch/clock makers. So it wasn't that they were shoddy Chinese parts as several Steornites have said, it was that their tolerance was so minute. The bearings in a watch or clock are designed to handle very sensitive and well-balanced mechanisms, and to create as little friction or drag as possible. This being why a grandfather clock can run for thirty days or more.
....
Watches normally have ruby bearings, due to the fact that steel on glass or glasslike substances causes almost no friction. I have some magnetic rotors running on a bearing ball on top of a (not so smooth) glass bowl and you'll be amazed how long these things run, and how little energy is used.

Last edited by Snadert; 30th August 2007 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 30th August 2007, 09:09 AM   #609
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The bearing excuse is so patently absurd. Steorn had four years to prepare for this demonstration and this is the excuse they give as to why it failed?

If these guys are really savvy engineers and could read the specifications of the bearings being used you would think that the issue over environmental tolerance would have come up in the normal testing cycles they had supposedly done. Stearn has alluded to doing extensive testing with a technology that is proven to work every time and yet when they show it for the first time in the world premiere all it shows is that they didn't do their homework. And people have faith in this company and believe their claims?

I pity the human race.
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Old 16th September 2007, 08:51 AM   #610
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Still no free energy from Steorn, but they seem to have money to spare: they're sponsoring the next exhibition at Kinetica, "In Flux": http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.co...9/in-flux.html
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Old 8th October 2007, 07:51 AM   #611
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Any updates from Dublin? Did they break the laws of physics yet?
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Old 27th October 2007, 12:06 AM   #612
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There's an update here, an interview with Sean McCarthy (CEO of Steorn), but no real substance.
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Old 27th October 2007, 01:07 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
There's an update here, an interview with Sean McCarthy (CEO of Steorn), but no real substance.
Quote:
[...]whether you consider that energy creation or conversion is a matter of semantics.



All this time, all these "engineers", and he still doesn't understand thermodynamics?!
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Old 27th October 2007, 03:58 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post


All this time, all these "engineers", and he still doesn't understand thermodynamics?!
Well, I said no real substance, but of course, maybe I'm just an unbeliever. It is of course possible that they have discovered a new principle of physics, the full reply that you quote is:

Quote:
FE Truth: "In your opinion does Orbo create or extract energy?"

Sean: It’s a question of views. I would say that, in the same way as there is a mass/energy equivalent there is also a form of time/energy equivalent and whether you consider that energy creation or conversion is a matter of semantics. The explanation behind Orbo is that ÄT can equal E as simple as that.
Time/energy equivalence, wow!

On the other hand, spot the evasion in the answer to this simple question:
Quote:
FE Truth: How many patents do Steorn hold in relation to Orbo technology?

Sean: In the region of 15 – 20 applications
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Old 27th October 2007, 04:28 PM   #615
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On the other hand there is this seemingly reasonable reply:

Quote:
The internet seems to give people the right to debate things religiously. When you talk about taking on a scientific establishment which is very much how we cast ourselves, we came out fighting so you could say we provoked a response but that having been said we are questioning a fundamental assumption of the world of physics and I think that the world of physics is religious in its attitude to these things and probably rightly so.

"Religious" is perhaps too strong a word though.
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Old 27th October 2007, 11:36 PM   #616
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Bears repeating:

Still no free energy from Steorn.
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Old 29th October 2007, 01:35 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by CFLarsen View Post
Bears repeating:

Still no free energy from Steorn.
Though free publicity flows like a waterfall... Steorn just invented a free publicity machine..
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Old 29th October 2007, 01:48 AM   #618
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Time to return to the starting point:

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi View Post
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-09/092206bad.html#i6

It sounds like they advertised to get independent scientists (not biased skeptical organizations or personalities) to test their product.
T'ai Chi,

What do you think of the way Steorn has handled all this?

Would you describe it as "scientific"?
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Old 29th October 2007, 07:25 AM   #619
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Quote:
FE Truth: How many patents do Steorn hold in relation to Orbo technology?

Sean: In the region of 15 – 20 applications

And yet, I still can't find any except the one to the "low energy magnetic actuator", which they've said isn't a part of their device.....Hmmmmmm......
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Old 29th October 2007, 10:28 AM   #620
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Have you had any licensing enquiries from interested companies since you went public in August 2006?

I missed this previously ... so, what group of idiots is holding the bag now, how much did they pay, and how much are they paying now just to keep the lights on and the PR/BS going?
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Old 29th October 2007, 12:22 PM   #621
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Was that really a quote from me? The link just goes to my last post.....
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Old 31st October 2007, 02:59 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Was that really a quote from me? The link just goes to my last post.....
Oops, sorry, that was from the Steorn interview ...
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Old 31st October 2007, 05:15 PM   #623
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Another highly disturbing component of the Steorn debacle is that Sean claimed on his website to the believers that he was already in the process of rolling out the technology to impoverished African communities to pump water and power homes etc..

His followers were treating him like a hero. What horrible, cynical manipulation. To garner support for something with fictionalized humanitarian acts.
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Old 31st October 2007, 07:25 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by circuit_bent View Post
Another highly disturbing component of the Steorn debacle is that Sean claimed on his website to the believers that he was already in the process of rolling out the technology to impoverished African communities to pump water and power homes etc..

His followers were treating him like a hero. What horrible, cynical manipulation. To garner support for something with fictionalized humanitarian acts.
Well, in all fairness, he hadn't realized that Africa was hot.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 12:06 PM   #625
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Steorn is still managing to convince people to invest considerable sums of money: three private investors have recently injected €1.1 million into the company.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 01:49 PM   #626
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Quote:
it had almost €6.4 million in cash on its balance sheet at the end of the year, up from €1.6 million a year earlier. It also had ‘‘short-term investments’’ valued at €1.8million,up from just under €1 million at the end of 2006.

6.4 +1.8 + 1.1 = 9.3 million
They obviously do not need The JREF Million Dollar Prize.

Quote:
‘‘The company is dependent upon the successful outcome of its prototype development to generate future income,” the auditors’ report in the accounts stated.”

They don't need that either.

Last edited by BillyJoe; 2nd December 2007 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2007, 01:40 AM   #627
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Sean:"One of our goals is to raise Africa out of poverty; unfortunately the bearings gave away. Our engineers are fixing that. Coffee anyone?"
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Old 3rd December 2007, 05:04 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by Michael C View Post
Steorn is still managing to convince people to invest considerable sums of money: three private investors have recently injected €1.1 million into the company.

Any sign of the jury's "validation" yet?
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Old 3rd December 2007, 10:54 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Any sign of the jury's "validation" yet?
Haven't heard of them since. But, meanwhile in Eire...
Even the Irish president is involved.
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Old 4th December 2007, 02:12 PM   #630
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Originally Posted by Steorn
The company had an accumulated loss of €5.9 million at the end of last year, up from €2.8 million a year earlier, according to accounts filed recently.

Spending €3.1 million per year?! Wow, that failed experiment cost more than we ever knew!

OTOH, how much is the head PR flack/salesman/conman at Steorn making per year?
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Old 5th December 2007, 01:19 AM   #631
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Shouldn't we move this thread to AAH?
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Old 1st January 2008, 01:51 PM   #632
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Any sign of the results of the "validation" that Steorn were expecting by the end of 2007?
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Old 1st January 2008, 01:58 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Any sign of the results of the "validation" that Steorn were expecting by the end of 2007?
For large values of "2007".
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Old 1st January 2008, 07:01 PM   #634
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....just another few rocks on the road to success, I'm sure.
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Old 19th April 2008, 08:55 AM   #635
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So... are we at the end of 2007 yet?

Have Steorn quietly gone under, or is there still life in the scam?
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Old 19th April 2008, 04:27 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
So... are we at the end of 2007 yet?

Have Steorn quietly gone under, or is there still life in the scam?

I have to agree with CFL on this one: "For large values of "2007"."
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Old 19th April 2008, 11:49 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
So... are we at the end of 2007 yet?

Have Steorn quietly gone under, or is there still life in the scam?
Well, they seem to be still alive, but the Spindizzy is moribund. There are no news releases on their website since October (when some dignitary visited them), nothing on the Orbo, and much speculaiton that the "jury" never actually existed in the first place.

Their forum has turned into an altenergy discussion group, with the two most popular threads being "Last Poster Wins" and "Count to a Million".

As long as there's some investment money out there, McCarthy will keep it alive, but the dismal and stupid failure of the Kinetica demo was the last nail in their coffin. (Although, as McCarthy noted, Randi's account of their death is slightly exaggerated.)
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Old 20th April 2008, 12:52 AM   #638
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Maybe if you use trivalent logic as Bubblefish wanted, it 2q asohfaaoasg avg ;as dhgftr5QW4 A 4wt3 wap

sorry brain melted...
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 20th April 2008, 02:01 AM   #639
BillC
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The European Patent Office issued them with a patent on 21st February 2008 for a torque measurement device. This is indicative of earlier, rather than recent, activity by Steorn: the patent was applied for in August 2006.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 11:13 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
The European Patent Office issued them with a patent on 21st February 2008 for a torque measurement device. This is indicative of earlier, rather than recent, activity by Steorn: the patent was applied for in August 2006.



Actually, that document, WO2008020424 is a published international patent application under the Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT). It's the first stage to multiple patent applications in several countries, but is still several stages away from being patented anywhere.

I haven't looked at it in any detail, so can't comment on the technology, but I wanted to clarify its status.
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