Hulk Movie - way overboard

Crossbow

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Crossbow
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I saw the preview for the Hulk movie the other day and noticed that they made Hulk way, way, way too powerful.

Golly, he was slingling around 60, maybe 70 ton tanks around like they were half-empty buckets of water! I know the Hulk is about the most powerful creature in the Marvel universe, but wow! Did Hollywood really have to go that far?

Aak! I will still probably thunk down money to go see it!
 
Crossbow said:
I saw the preview for the Hulk movie the other day and noticed that they made Hulk way, way, way too powerful.
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The complaints that I've heard is that the hulk himself is too artificial looking. (The studio is claiming that its because people have been seeing 'pre-releases', and the final version of the movie will be much better looking.)

Question: does anyone read the comic? How does the Hulk's strength in the comic compare to this?
 
I have seen bits of the comic. As far as I can tell the movie is trying to be true to the comic. He can jump so far that he is nearly flying, he can trow a tank and such. In the Amalgam series he even gave Superman a good fight.
 
A part of the movie was filmed at Berkeley National Lab. That's pretty much the only reason I might consider seeing the movie. I've seen the trailers and they didn't do much for me.
 
Re: Re: Hulk Movie - way overboard

Segnosaur said:
The complaints that I've heard is that the hulk himself is too artificial looking. (The studio is claiming that its because people have been seeing 'pre-releases', and the final version of the movie will be much better looking.)
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Newsweek says the Hulk was redone because of the complaints about the earlier versions (e.g., the version shown in the Super Bowl commercial). Newsweek also says that the new version is REALLY good.
 
"HULK IS STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!"

Yep the Hulk is definatly supposed to be that strong, forget the TV Hulk.
 
I seem to remember that the Silver Surfer or someone gave the hulk his super jump.

A little to Geekoteric for me.
 
The Hulk in the long-running comic book series can not only throw tanks around, he can peel them open like they're an orange. He can jump miles at a time, passing high flying planes in the process. More than that, his particular powers make him stronger the more angry he gets, so in a fight he keeps getting stronger and stronger, while his enemy gets tired.

His appearance and size and intelligence have fluctuated over the years, depending on who was writing the particular story line. Sometimes he's grey, not green. Sometimes he's retarded, sometimes of normal intelligence as the Hulk. One version of the Hulk only appeared at night, and then there's the "you won't like me when I'm angry" version. The current explanation is that he is a multiple personality type, and each version of the Hulk is one personality.

Some of the best and most imaginative writing and artwork is being produced in comic book form today. The average reader is not a kid anymore, but an adult. Shoot, the things cost several dollars each!
 
i'm just mad that he is so freaking big. he was never 15 feet tall in the comics. and i don't remember him running 200 mph, either. yes, he could jump, but he wasn't quicksilver.
 
He was pretty tall for the brief run when the writer had Doc Sampson merge his personalities and he became a full time, smart Hulk, but I don't think he was 15 feet. More like 8 feet tall, maybe. And he never had super speed. His reaction time seemed to stay normal, and that determines how fast someone can move their legs. I just caught the promo last night on TV, and I really hope they do better on the CGI. So far, even the best efforts of the Dudes at Pixar have never produced a person that wasn't obviously fake.
 
Cinorjer said:
He was pretty tall for the brief run when the writer had Doc Sampson merge his personalities and he became a full time, smart Hulk, but I don't think he was 15 feet. More like 8 feet tall, maybe. And he never had super speed. His reaction time seemed to stay normal, and that determines how fast someone can move their legs. I just caught the promo last night on TV, and I really hope they do better on the CGI. So far, even the best efforts of the Dudes at Pixar have never produced a person that wasn't obviously fake.
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I think the closest anyone came was in the Final Fantasy movie. Also the Animatrix short "Final Flight of the Osiris" had pretty good humans, and the humans in Shrek (other than Farquaad) were pretty realistic-looking.

The problem is, in all of those cases, no matter how realistically the humans are visually rendered, they all move artificially. Every time they move, you know they're not real. That's exactly why Pixar has stuck with cartoony-humans. No, they don't look realistic, but it doesn't bother you when they don't move right, either, because they move just right for cartoon characters.

The CGI in Spider-Man was bad for just that purpose. You can easily tell when they move from actors/stuntmen to CGI. He just doesn't move right.

I don't expect them to get it right in the Hulk movie, either.
 
shanek said:
The problem is, in all of those cases, no matter how realistically the humans are visually rendered, they all move artificially. Every time they move, you know they're not real.
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I disagree. Keanu Reeves is pretty realistic, they just need to find another actor to do his voice.
 
somewhere I have an old "Elseworlds" (I think, it may have been "What If") comic where the Hulk was intelligent, strong, and completely evil. In fact, he was so powerful that he had killed all of the heroes of the Marvel Universe, and wore Wolverine's adamantium skeleton as an arm-band, Doctor Strange's cloak as a sash, and Captain America's shield across his forearm...
 
Gideon S said:
somewhere I have an old "Elseworlds" (I think, it may have been "What If") comic where the Hulk was intelligent, strong, and completely evil. In fact, he was so powerful that he had killed all of the heroes of the Marvel Universe, and wore Wolverine's adamantium skeleton as an arm-band, Doctor Strange's cloak as a sash, and Captain America's shield across his forearm...
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What if. The Watcher. So cool.
 
I remember way back when (early 80's?) they used to have Marvel/DC crossovers all the time. Superman vs. Hulk, Batman vs. Hulk, etc. (There was also a Superman vs. Muhammed Ali but I digress). If I remember correctly the Hulk lost to Superman, and it was kind of a stalemate with Batman and by the end of the story they had teamed up to defeat some supervillain. The part I remember was the Hulk grabbing Batman in a bear hug and trying to snap his spine. Batman had a thought blurb over his head that says something like "Unnnh... if he continues to squeeze... he'll... break my spine! Arrrnnggh!" So, the Batman thinks quickly, and boxes the Hulk's ears. Apparently the Hulk's ears were puny and this stuns the Hulk enough to let go. Then Batman runs away or something. The next time he see the Hulk, he knocks him out with some special knockout gas. When the Hulk comes to, he is docile and Batman talks him into teaming up with him.

Anyway, my point was... um... I'm not sure my point. The only part I remember for sure was Batman boxing Hulk's ears and thinking "Come on! The Hulk wouldn't even feel that!" then thinking "Well, Batman certainly does kick A**." So that is my point then. Also, this picture rules:
 
So, the Batman thinks quickly, and boxes the Hulk's ears. Apparently the Hulk's ears were puny and this stuns the Hulk enough to let go.

Bad writing. One of Hulk's favorite moves is to clap his hands together hard enough to create a sonic boom, and he doesn't hurt his own ears when he does it. On top of that, Hulk is tough enough to survive without protection at the bottom of the sea or in outer space (although he does need to breathe, eventually). That means pressure on his eardrums wouldn't bother him. He has been gassed many times, though, and a lungful of knockout gas gets him every time.
 
Cinorjer said:
One of Hulk's favorite moves is to clap his hands together hard enough to create a sonic boom, and he doesn't hurt his own ears when he does it.
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I'm not familiar with the minutiae of Hulk or any comic so I can't dispute this. However, wouldn't a sonic boom be caused by the speed of an object moving as opposed to the force of its impact with another?

No big deal (even though this caught my eye). To paraphrase a friend of mine, "It's a cartoon!"
 
However, wouldn't a sonic boom be caused by the speed of an object moving as opposed to the force of its impact with another?

Maybe sonic boom isn't the proper term. I suppose the comic book logic goes, you clap your hands and make a sound. The harder you clap your hands, the louder the sound. Clap them really, really, hard, and you make a really, really, loud sound.

But hey, the comic book world might look to have normal rules of physics at a glance, but it's really an alternate reality where our rules don't apply in subtle ways. It's pseudoscience at best, where perpetual motion machines and ESP work because it makes an interesting story.
 
I saw an internet leak of "Hulk" at a party.

the bad parts:
Hulk is made from starfish DNA.
There is zero characterization of the protagonist (Dr. Banner)
It drags for the first 35 minutes.
Cheap editing tricks galore.
Hulk's first fight is against a hulked up french poodle.
At the end of the movie, the antagonist is finally revealed.
The antagonist is his dad who battles him in the form of...... water!
A few plot holes. The kind that reach out and grab you and say "look at me! i dont make sense!".

the good parts:
the Hulk rendering is actually quite good


Any movie reviewer who calls this turd good must be getting a kickback.
 
Crossbow said:

Golly, he was slingling around 60, maybe 70 ton tanks around like they were half-empty buckets of water! I know the Hulk is about the most powerful creature in the Marvel universe, but wow! Did Hollywood really have to go that far?
Click to expand...

Luckily, I'm now visiting my parents and they still have my old collection of Marvel comics. In particular, they have there "Hulk Erikoisjulkaisu I" (1989) that contains an extract from "The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe" that states (after a translation sequence English -> Finnish -> English): "Hulk's strength increases as he gets angrier and he has on an occasion lifted more than 100 tons."
 
thrombus29 said:
I seem to remember that the Silver Surfer or someone gave the hulk his super jump.
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I think your memory may be playing tricks. I don't recall anything like that. From the very earliest issues, the Hulk was able to jump long distances and used that as his way of traveling. It was simply a consequence of having extremely strong leg muscles.

(Hey, it made more sense than Thor being able to fly by whirling his hammer around above his head, throwing it with all his strengtj, and holding on to it so he would be carried along with it...)
 
JesFine said:
I remember way back when (early 80's?) they used to have Marvel/DC crossovers all the time. Superman vs. Hulk, Batman vs. Hulk, etc. ...

The part I remember was the Hulk grabbing Batman in a bear hug and trying to snap his spine. Batman had a thought blurb over his head that says something like "Unnnh... if he continues to squeeze... he'll... break my spine! Arrrnnggh!" So, the Batman thinks quickly, and boxes the Hulk's ears. Apparently the Hulk's ears were puny and this stuns the Hulk enough to let go. Then Batman runs away or something. The next time he see the Hulk, he knocks him out with some special knockout gas. When the Hulk comes to, he is docile and Batman talks him into teaming up with him.
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I think it's generally agreed by historians that the DC/Marvel crossovers did not take place in either the Marvel or DC universe (with the possible exception of the 1990s DC Vs Marvel mini-series and a couple of follow-up minis featuring Access.)

So the Batman and Hulk in that story were alternate universe versions (or possibly even fictional representations).

In other words, "knocking out the Hulk by clapping his ears" only works in fiction and alternate universes; don't try this if you happen to encounter the genuine article.
 
Gideon S said:
somewhere I have an old "Elseworlds" (I think, it may have been "What If") comic where the Hulk was intelligent, strong, and completely evil. In fact, he was so powerful that he had killed all of the heroes of the Marvel Universe, and wore Wolverine's adamantium skeleton as an arm-band, Doctor Strange's cloak as a sash, and Captain America's shield across his forearm...
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the story you are thinking of is Future Imperfect, a 2-issue prestige format story by Peter David and George Perez -- excellent story, well worth reading (and recently reprinted by Marvel as a single-volume trade paperback, if I recall correctly).

While the Batman / Hulk encounter was indeed an Elseworlds/What If story, Future Imperfect is not. It is part of the Hulk's actual continuity. Historians place its events between issues somewhere in the early 400s of the Hulk's comics series (something like between 410 and 420) if memory serves.

In the story, the Hulk winds up in the future (or a future) and encounters "the Maestro", who is as you have described. (As we know, there is more than one possible future -- see X-Men: Days of Future Past, etc., for more of the published scientific research on this.)

Events from Future Imperfect later had effects on the Hulk after he had returned to the present (as detailed in his monthly comic) (but I have no recollection of which issues).

What is open to dispute is whether the events in the Hulk novel What Savage Beast are real or fictitious. The Maestro plays a major role in that book. It's written by Peter David, so whether or not it's historically accurate it's still a very enjoyable novel, well worth searching for.

(As I recall, Peter David intended for the novel to be part of official continuity. It features a major event in the Hulk's life, which probably would have had major repercussions on the Hulk in his comic book if Marvel had not replaced actual accounts of the Hulk with fictional ones during the Heroes Reborn year.)

To sum up: Batman knocking out Hulk, not real. Hulk becoming evil, wiping out all the heroes and taking over the world, real (at least in one possible future). See? Truth is as strange as fiction!
 
The studio is already in damage control mode trying to shape impressions of the movie. I see these articles saying Hulk is "darker" movie than SpiderMan.

Its not darker, its just boring in parts and doesn't have a single laugh.

I think this studio spin on a bad movie is insulting to "darker" films. The last dark film I saw was Narc. Hulk is no Narc.
 
Re: Re: Hulk Movie - way overboard

LW said:


Luckily, I'm now visiting my parents and they still have my old collection of Marvel comics. In particular, they have there "Hulk Erikoisjulkaisu I" (1989) that contains an extract from "The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe" that states (after a translation sequence English -> Finnish -> English): "Hulk's strength increases as he gets angrier and he has on an occasion lifted more than 100 tons."
Click to expand...

Thanks LW! That data is most helpful.

I was not a serious Hulk reader, but the few I did read and the other comics he appeared in (Spiderman and X-Men) showed him lifting cars and trucks without too much trouble. But these were in the 5 to 10 ton range.

However, if he can huff around 100 tons if he really wants to, then a 70 ton tank should be no problem for the big guy.
 
I have the English version of the Marvel Universe Handbook that I still thumb through when I'm home visiting my parents. The Hulk does indeed have "class 100 strength enabling him the lift / press 100 tonnes". There is an aside noting that while this is typical, The Hulk becomes stronger the angrier he gets allowing for, theoretically, limitless strength.

Ok, I just geeked out way more than I wanted to there.

Another thing I like about the entry is how The Hulks extra mass comes from "an unknown extra-dimensional source". Nice little attempt to stall disbelief from a physics standpoint... ;)
 
Thought Harvester said:
Another thing I like about the entry is how The Hulks extra mass comes from "an unknown extra-dimensional source". Nice little attempt to stall disbelief from a physics standpoint... ;)
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Yes.

It's not unlike when you see Superman lifting, say, an ocean liner over his head. I don't have a problem with his being able to do so (!) as much as the simple fact that trying to support such massive weight on two palm-sized points would surely cause the thing to collapse inward.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Yes.

It's not unlike when you see Superman lifting, say, an ocean liner over his head. I don't have a problem with his being able to do so (!) as much as the simple fact that trying to support such massive weight on two palm-sized points would surely cause the thing to collapse inward.
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Ah, but that is why he was re-written during the "Crisis" timeline so that his powers were re-explained (or at least heavily inferred) as psionic. He can see into a safe without light because its mental; likewise, old storylines where he looked at distant planets with his "Super Vision"(tm), but where he was supposed to be seeing the present-day plant (i.e., forgetting that the planet was light-years distant and he would be seeing events from the distant past if he relied on light). Similarly, the writers indicated that he was essentially holding the building or ship or whatever together with mentally, but processed his power through what appeared to be physical feats.



Out-Geek THAT.

NA
 
NoZed Avenger said:

Out-Geek THAT.
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...Or like when Superman would push entire planets out of their orbit.

In one story, Superman appeared to be simply standing on his head in a picture of what was supposed to be one of his greatest feats, and people asked, "What's so great about that? My 6-year-old can do that!" It turned out Superman was actually pushing the entire planet to a different location. This raises interesting physics questions.

Post-crisis, this was deemed to be impossible. Indeed, one reason given for revising his powers was to prevent scenes of Superman pushing entire planets (or stars!) around.

Peter David used this bit of Silver Age lore to hilarious effect in the recent "Return of Kara" storyline in the (recently cancelled) Supergirl series. Linda-Supergirl comes upon Kara-Supergirl standing on her head, and asks what she's doing. It turns out Kara is trying to move the planet, isn't able to, and doesn't understand why her powers aren't working the way they should.

Don't you people know better than to issue a challenge like that here? What on earth were you thinking? "Out-Geek THAT", indeed!
 
shanek said:


I think the closest anyone came was in the Final Fantasy movie. Also the Animatrix short "Final Flight of the Osiris" had pretty good humans, and the humans in Shrek (other than Farquaad) were pretty realistic-looking.

The problem is, in all of those cases, no matter how realistically the humans are visually rendered, they all move artificially. Every time they move, you know they're not real. That's exactly why Pixar has stuck with cartoony-humans. No, they don't look realistic, but it doesn't bother you when they don't move right, either, because they move just right for cartoon characters.

The CGI in Spider-Man was bad for just that purpose. You can easily tell when they move from actors/stuntmen to CGI. He just doesn't move right.

I don't expect them to get it right in the Hulk movie, either.
Click to expand...

Well, they got it mostly right in The Twin Towers. That's because Gollum was a close collaboration betweent the CGI team and a real actor and the motion capture film of him performing the part.

I think that's the way CGI of characters is headed.

AS
 


Another thing I like about the entry is how The Hulks extra mass comes from "an unknown extra-dimensional source". Nice little attempt to stall disbelief from a physics standpoint... ;)
Click to expand...

Peter David came up with a great idea to explain the extra mass in the MacFarlane days. The issue where Wolverine shoved his claws all the way through the Hulk.
The Hulk is a product of radiation, it's a cancer. He grows like a tumor. Also, he's not indestructable. He just heals (grows new cells) real real fast.
 
AmateurScientist said:

Well, they got it mostly right in The Twin Towers. That's because Gollum was a close collaboration betweent the CGI team and a real actor and the motion capture film of him performing the part.

I think that's the way CGI of characters is headed.
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Ang Lee provided most of the motion capture data for the Hulk's movement.

I saw parts of the SciFi channel's promotional the other night. I think the Hulk is a mixed bag, It's going to look impressive, but fake in some parts.

However, I don't like the way the Hulk looks. I remember reading the (reprinted) original comics, and I like that look better. Still, they don't show anything for more than a scant few seconds, so it's hard to get a good idea of his looks.
 
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030616/030616-3.html
(subscription required)

Set in San Francisco, the movie follows the enraged outbursts of fictional Berkeley physicist Bruce Banner (played by Eric Bana). The mild-mannered boffin gets bigger, greener and a whole lot meaner after being exposed to gamma rays, extremely powerful radiation, from the lab's Gamma Sphere experiment. Carnage follows as he stomps through the American west tossing cars, tanks and helicopters.

The plot is pure fiction, but the Gamma Sphere is real. "It is the best gamma-ray detector in the world," says I-Yang Lee, the real head of Berkeley's low-energy nuclear physics programme.
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AmateurScientist said:


Well, they got it mostly right in The Twin Towers. That's because Gollum was a close collaboration betweent the CGI team and a real actor and the motion capture film of him performing the part.

I think that's the way CGI of characters is headed.



AS
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Interesting Freudian slip. "The Two Towers" you mean. I wonder how many other people regularly do that.
 
JesFine said:
I remember way back when (early 80's?) they used to have Marvel/DC crossovers all the time. Superman vs. Hulk, Batman vs. Hulk, etc. (There was also a Superman vs. Muhammed Ali but I digress). If I remember correctly the Hulk lost to Superman, and it was kind of a stalemate with Batman and by the end of the story they had teamed up to defeat some supervillain. The part I remember was the Hulk grabbing Batman in a bear hug and trying to snap his spine. Batman had a thought blurb over his head that says something like "Unnnh... if he continues to squeeze... he'll... break my spine! Arrrnnggh!" So, the Batman thinks quickly, and boxes the Hulk's ears. Apparently the Hulk's ears were puny and this stuns the Hulk enough to let go. Then Batman runs away or something. The next time he see the Hulk, he knocks him out with some special knockout gas. When the Hulk comes to, he is docile and Batman talks him into teaming up with him.

Anyway, my point was... um... I'm not sure my point. The only part I remember for sure was Batman boxing Hulk's ears and thinking "Come on! The Hulk wouldn't even feel that!" then thinking "Well, Batman certainly does kick A**." So that is my point then. Also, this picture rules:
Click to expand...
I remember reading this comic (the one the picture comes from), but I think it was a Spider-Man/Superman team up, against Doctor Doom and a villain called the Leech or the Parasite or some such. The Hulk made an appearance but not as a main character.
 
specious_reasons said:
I saw parts of the SciFi channel's promotional the other night. I think the Hulk is a mixed bag, It's going to look impressive, but fake in some parts.
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I saw the same promotional program, and my assessment is the same. Some of the shots of the green guy looked realistic, but the vast majority of them didn't look quite right. In the scenes that didn't "look right," it would be very hard to articulate exactly what was wrong, even though I recognized immediately that something was wrong.

I had the same reaction when watching movies like "Final Fantasy" and the newest "Star Wars" flicks. (I haven't seen the new and improved Gollum yet.) It's strange how the brain can accept some of the shots as legitimate and scream "That's fake!" at others. The animators are getting better, but they haven't quite mastered the art of capturing how people or animals move.

(The most spectacular sight in the Hulk movie is probably Jennifer Connelly.)
 
Brown said:
I saw the same promotional program, and my assessment is the same. Some of the shots of the green guy looked realistic, but the vast majority of them didn't look quite right. In the scenes that didn't "look right," it would be very hard to articulate exactly what was wrong, even though I recognized immediately that something was wrong.

I had the same reaction when watching movies like "Final Fantasy" and the newest "Star Wars" flicks. (I haven't seen the new and improved Gollum yet.) It's strange how the brain can accept some of the shots as legitimate and scream "That's fake!" at others. The animators are getting better, but they haven't quite mastered the art of capturing how people or animals move.

(The most spectacular sight in the Hulk movie is probably Jennifer Connelly.)
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Could be one of a number of things.

Cartoon physics - impossible things happening. The classic example is Wile E. Coyote running off the cliff, hanging in mid-air for several seconds, and then plummeting.

Lack of motion blur - If you film a moving object with a camera, the object may be blurred in each frame. The moviemakers may not do this, instead accounting for the position of hte moving object, but not the blur caused by movement during hte exposure.
 
ceo_esq said:

I remember reading this comic (the one the picture comes from), but I think it was a Spider-Man/Superman team up, against Doctor Doom and a villain called the Leech or the Parasite or some such. The Hulk made an appearance but not as a main character.
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Ooh, good, I get to show off my geekine-- ahem, my erudition again.

The first Superman / Spider-Man crossover was in 1976. The idea of a DC Marvel crossover was very exciting back then, but the choice of Spider-Man -- Spider-Man??!! -- to team with Superman was such a mis-match that the book failed to live up to fans' fantasies.

(The companies had obviously simply paired their most popular characters rather than trying to find a more appropriate match-up, which wouldn't have been bad except they had to have the obligatory heroes-mistakenly-fight-each-other and also had to make it come out a draw...)

Anyway, in that one the heroes fought a team of Lex Luthor and Doctor Octopus (since the menaces, likewise, had to be an equal balance of DC and Marvel).

The book was a novelty, but wasn't really that good, and the idea of crossing characters from the 2 universes went back to being the stuff of in-jokes in various series until 1981 when there was a second attempt at a Superman / Spider-Man book. This is probably the one you're thinking of -- villains were Doctor Doom and the Parasite, and there were cameo appearances of other DC and Marvel characters to set up (and whet fan appetites for) the already-planned next crossover, Batman / Hulk (another gross mis-match).

This was followed by the first sensible match-up, X-Men / Teen Titans -- a logical pairing, one the fans were eager for, and published in a more convenient format. Marvel did most of the work on that one, with DC supposed to be responsible for the next one, JLA /Avengers, which was especially eagerly awaited because of the George Perez artwork. Unfortunately squabbling broke out between the two companies, and there were no more attempts at inter-company crossovers between them for about a dozen years.

(In the interest of full disclosure, here's a web site I went to to refresh my memory on some of the details: Fanzing 44, May 2002, DC / Marvel Crossovers
 
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