New Gravy paper: WTC 7 and the Lies of the 9/11 "Truth Movement"

Gravy · 8th October 2006, 11:54 PM

Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF).

As always, the .doc file looks much better. In the PDF version, only the hyperlinks that look like URLs are clickable. Anyone know a fix for that, beyond changing all the text links to "http..."?

Please don't link to this until it has a permanent home. Anyone is welcome to host, and I'll contact Mike at 9/11 Myths.

–Mark

Kent1 · 9th October 2006, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF).

As always, the .doc file looks much better. In the PDF version, only the hyperlinks that look like URLs are clickable. Anyone know a fix for that, beyond changing all the text links to "http..."?

Please don't link to this until it has a permanent home. Anyone is welcome to host, and I'll contact Mike at 9/11 Myths.

–Mark

Great job on some of those firefigher quotes. I really like how you put the information together on that aspect.

LashL · 9th October 2006, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF).

As always, the .doc file looks much better. In the PDF version, only the hyperlinks that look like URLs are clickable. Anyone know a fix for that, beyond changing all the text links to "http..."?

Please don't link to this until it has a permanent home. Anyone is welcome to host, and I'll contact Mike at 9/11 Myths.

–Mark

I'm up to page 60 so far.... Great work, Mark.

einsteen · 9th October 2006, 03:47 AM

Here an image for the cover page

http://wtc2001ny.tripod.com/wtc-7.jpg.html

ps. collapsed pic probably from 9/13

Shrinker · 9th October 2006, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by einsteen

Here an image for the cover page

http://wtc2001ny.tripod.com/wtc-7.jpg.html

ps. collapsed pic probably from 9/13

...where you will see that the small building to the north is clearly standing in WTC7's footprint.

Great work Gravy. Well, the bits I've had time to read are great. The confrontation with Alex Jones is hilarious.

Gravy · 9th October 2006, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by einsteen

Here an image for the cover page

http://wtc2001ny.tripod.com/wtc-7.jpg.html

ps. collapsed pic probably from 9/13

Thanks, but I tried to use photos taken as soon as possible after the collapse.

I'm interested to know what you think of all the eyewitness accounts.

einsteen · 9th October 2006, 04:20 AM

I think eyewitnesses are important and as much info as possible should be written down

twinstead · 9th October 2006, 05:38 AM

Those people make me sick. Nice work Gravy.

Those are the people who are going to save us and expose us to the real 'truth'? I don't think so.

einsteen and troothydude1234 I would be totally embarassed to be associated with them if I were you.

T.A.M. · 9th October 2006, 06:08 AM

cant wait to see the CTers debunking of it...

Jon Gold: i don't like "Gravy", so obviously the paper is a pile of disinformation. Paper officially debunked.

lol

TAM

Gravy · 9th October 2006, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

cant wait to see the CTers debunking of it...

Jon Gold: i don't like "Gravy", so obviously the paper is a pile of disinformation. Paper officially debunked.

lol

TAM

Have you seen a photo of him? I have a feeling he asks for extra gravy!

boloboffin · 9th October 2006, 07:08 AM

Thank you, thank you.

T.A.M. · 9th October 2006, 09:27 AM

He looks more like an angry biker rejected by the Hells Angels to me...but I am sure he loves his "Gravy".

Pardalis · 9th October 2006, 09:43 AM

Wow. I skimmed through it and it looks like a heck of a great document. Can't wait to read it more thouroughly.

After the Amazing Randi, here comes the Amazing Gravy!

Gord_in_Toronto · 9th October 2006, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Thank you, thank you.

Ditto. Very nicely done!

Class · 9th October 2006, 11:07 AM

The .doc version was too big to upload, so here's a mirror for the .pdf version.

EDIT: Forgot to add, very nice work!

chipmunk stew · 9th October 2006, 11:32 AM

Mark, you've outdone yourself. I just read through most of it (skimming over some sections), and if this doesn't pull people back from the brink, nothing will.

WTC7 was their most alluring myth. Not anymore.

Fantastic!

Pardalis · 9th October 2006, 11:35 AM

Someone should email this document to Matthew Horton Woodson.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=65684

ETA: I really mean it, if my English was any better, I would do it myself.

Abbyas · 9th October 2006, 12:08 PM

Perfect, Mark. Effing Perfect.

Easy to read, comprehensively and visually. Humorous when it needs to be and serious when called for. The science is clear, and the layout is great.

Very, very nice work. Thank you for this. I will be using it.

Lurker · 9th October 2006, 01:48 PM

I just finished reading the pdf doc, Gravy. Very well done. But I do have a complaint. Where the heck were you when I was having this email deabte with a friend of mine about WTC7. Your paper and entensive quotes/pics would have come in handy. Now I just feel stupid as I can just send him your link which does a far better job than I did after about 75 emails.

Kudos for a job done.

Hutch · 9th October 2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Have you seen a photo of him? I have a feeling he asks for extra gravy!

Hey....Hey....Hey..., I resemble that remark!!

tacodaemon · 9th October 2006, 02:29 PM

Gravy, you've got a great point when you mention how the "truthers" have some kind of allergy to editing down their videos. I wish these people didn't have such outright contempt for the written word, so I wouldn't have to sit through their long, boring videos to try to see what they're talking about now. I can read fast, but it's not like I can speed up their videos ... actually, come to think of it, maybe that would make them more entertaining to watch.

R.Mackey · 9th October 2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF).

Just got through reading it. A tour de force to be sure. Great job.

Like you, the thing that angers me the most is how these people slander the very firefighters who risked (and gave) their lives. And all for no reason, other than they want their fiction to be true, want it so badly that they distort, lie, and willingly play along with their "friends" who do.

I don't understand the vocal component. It's like having a dumb kid in class who always always shoots up his hand to answer the teacher's question, but is completely unprepared and dead wrong every time. But does that stop him? No, he does it over and over and over again, every day, for years.

I never saw a kid like that, not one. Most people keep quiet when they don't know anything. I have no idea where these people come from.

Bell · 9th October 2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by tacodaemon

Gravy, you've got a great point when you mention how the "truthers" have some kind of allergy to editing down their videos. I wish these people didn't have such outright contempt for the written word, so I wouldn't have to sit through their long, boring videos to try to see what they're talking about now. I can read fast, but it's not like I can speed up their videos ... actually, come to think of it, maybe that would make them more entertaining to watch.

Like this fast clip in which Gravy takes on a dozen or so troofers.

ETA: do'h... this clip

CurtC · 9th October 2006, 03:03 PM

Of course, it can go into the loosechangeguide.com site.

I still think the format of a DOC file, or PDF, is inconvenient for anyone but the most dedicated reader. Any interest in an HTML version?

Brainster · 9th October 2006, 03:03 PM

Great job, Gravy! Loved the part where you showed all the firefighters using the words "pull" or "pulled"; very effective!

Deus Ex Machina · 9th October 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Abbyas

Perfect, Mark. Effing Perfect.

Easy to read, comprehensively and visually. Humorous when it needs to be and serious when called for. The science is clear, and the layout is great.

Very, very nice work. Thank you for this. I will be using it.

yep, let me add my inadequate words of praise for a job well done. EXCELLENT!!

Hutch · 9th October 2006, 03:25 PM

Just finished scaning it Gravy, and very well done indeed.

At times your passion in opposing these...well, I guess I must call them gentlemen, although both parts of the word is in some doubt...comes out and interferes in your review, but by and large it is a dispassionate review of the events and the CT'ers and the putrid mess they spew.

My admiration for your patience and wilingness to do this is only enhanced by this--kudos to you, and Brainster, and MarkyX , and CurtC, and of course Abbyas and all those who fight against ignorance.

If I may suggest, if the FD of NY has a website or Forum, I am sure many of the Firefighters would like to read this online.

Most Satisfactory, as a certain fictional New Yorker might have said.

steve s · 9th October 2006, 07:40 PM

Kudos. I haven't read through the entire thing but I skimmed through it. Love your comments about Bermas. It's amazing they let him loose in public. Keep up the good work.

Steve S.

tacodaemon · 9th October 2006, 09:06 PM

By the way, Gravy, if you can get your hands on the archived CNN video from 9/11, there's some additional evidence on there that WTC 7's collapse was expected -- the expected collapse was mentioned by the anchor (I think it was Aaron Brown) a couple of times starting about 70 minutes before the collapse actually happened, and they trained a camera on the building because they were waiting for collapse to happen eventually. I saw this on the rebroadcast on 9/11 of this year but unfortunately I wasn't vidcapping it.

Kent1 · 9th October 2006, 09:43 PM

I noticed that you have a much better photo than Steven Jones uses in his paper on page 19. It's on page 95 on your paper. Jones uses this photo to suggest that the workers may be looking at molten steel.
http://www.st911.org/

CurtC · 9th October 2006, 09:53 PM

By the way, Mark, the loosechangeguide.com site has collected enough in Paypal donations to cover the whole first year of expenses, so I've taken the Paypal link down.

LashL · 9th October 2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Class

The .doc version was too big to upload, so here's a mirror for the .pdf version.

EDIT: Forgot to add, very nice work!

Thank you for the mirror site with the pdf. That actually showed up better and made the rest of the reading much easier. Plus, it showed all the photos, which were not all showing in the .doc version that I started reading last night.

Mark, I've now finished reading the whole thing and - wow - terrific work!!!

JamesB · 9th October 2006, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kent1

I noticed that you have a much better photo than Steven Jones uses in his paper on page 19. It's on page 95 on your paper. Jones uses this photo to suggest that the workers may be looking at molten steel.
http://www.st911.org/

I made a post on the paper and that pic on SLC. Excellent work.

mcMike · 10th October 2006, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by JamesB

I made a post on the paper and that pic on SLC. Excellent work.

Can anyone validate where's this original photo from? It seems like Jones faked the photo with postprocessing but I would like to first see evidence of unprocessed source. Thanks.

Orphia Nay · 10th October 2006, 01:50 AM

Awesome.

There is only one Mark Roberts, no matter how much we all wish we are all Mark Roberts (and no matter how much the deniers wish we all are too).

sleahead · 10th October 2006, 02:03 AM

McMike, Look at the screwlooschange site where the two images are side by side.

JamesB, the I think the original caption for this photograph in Jones' paper was something like "firefighters peering into the yellow-white hot core" and, as you know, it has now been changed to "Workers evidently peering into the hot "core" under the WTC rubble". Evidently, Jones is trying to use the word evidently to get himself off the hook on this one.

Gravy, fantastic job with the new document. Well done.

jsiv · 10th October 2006, 02:27 AM

How clever of you to print our NWO disinformation instructions on gravy paper! Not even the KGB thought of that!

Now if you'll excuse me, I have about 30 pages left to eat.

Gravy · 10th October 2006, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by mcMike

Can anyone validate where's this original photo from? It seems like Jones faked the photo with postprocessing but I would like to first see evidence of unprocessed source. Thanks.

The original is number 5575 in the series "Here is New York." The photographers in that series are anonymous.

Great catch, Kent1. I revised the paper to include a side-by-side comparison. (current version here). 911myths.com is going to host it.

Gravy · 10th October 2006, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Of course, it can go into the loosechangeguide.com site.
I still think the format of a DOC file, or PDF, is inconvenient for anyone but the most dedicated reader. Any interest in an HTML version?

I agree, but not being skilled at coding, and too lazy to learn, I have to defer to others!

Originally Posted by CurtC

By the way, Mark, the loosechangeguide.com site has collected enough in Paypal donations to cover the whole first year of expenses, so I've taken the Paypal link down.

Well done, Curt. (I hope you kept enough to buy yourself a beer.)

SwissSkeptic · 10th October 2006, 03:15 AM

Just finished reading. Thank you for your excellent work Gravy.

8th October 2006, 11:54 PM	#1
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,077	New Gravy paper: WTC 7 and the Lies of the 9/11 "Truth Movement" Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF). As always, the .doc file looks much better. In the PDF version, only the hyperlinks that look like URLs are clickable. Anyone know a fix for that, beyond changing all the text links to "http..."? Please don't link to this until it has a permanent home. Anyone is welcome to host, and I'll contact Mike at 9/11 Myths. –Mark
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

9th October 2006, 12:35 AM	#2
Kent1 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,179	Originally Posted by Gravy Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF). As always, the .doc file looks much better. In the PDF version, only the hyperlinks that look like URLs are clickable. Anyone know a fix for that, beyond changing all the text links to "http..."? Please don't link to this until it has a permanent home. Anyone is welcome to host, and I'll contact Mike at 9/11 Myths. –Mark Great job on some of those firefigher quotes. I really like how you put the information together on that aspect.
Kent1 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,179

9th October 2006, 03:47 AM	#4
einsteen Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 917	Here an image for the cover page http://wtc2001ny.tripod.com/wtc-7.jpg.html ps. collapsed pic probably from 9/13
einsteen Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 917	Last edited by einsteen; 9th October 2006 at 04:07 AM.

9th October 2006, 04:13 AM	#6
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,077	Originally Posted by einsteen Here an image for the cover page http://wtc2001ny.tripod.com/wtc-7.jpg.html ps. collapsed pic probably from 9/13 Thanks, but I tried to use photos taken as soon as possible after the collapse. I'm interested to know what you think of all the eyewitness accounts.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

9th October 2006, 04:20 AM	#7
einsteen Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 917	I think eyewitnesses are important and as much info as possible should be written down
einsteen Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 917

9th October 2006, 01:13 AM	#3
LashL Goddess of Legaltainment™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 35,783	Originally Posted by Gravy Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF). As always, the .doc file looks much better. In the PDF version, only the hyperlinks that look like URLs are clickable. Anyone know a fix for that, beyond changing all the text links to "http..."? Please don't link to this until it has a permanent home. Anyone is welcome to host, and I'll contact Mike at 9/11 Myths. –Mark I'm up to page 60 so far.... Great work, Mark.

9th October 2006, 04:09 AM	#5
Shrinker Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,069	Originally Posted by einsteen Here an image for the cover page http://wtc2001ny.tripod.com/wtc-7.jpg.html ps. collapsed pic probably from 9/13 ...where you will see that the small building to the north is clearly standing in WTC7's footprint. Great work Gravy. Well, the bits I've had time to read are great. The confrontation with Alex Jones is hilarious.

9th October 2006, 05:38 AM	#8
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,374	Those people make me sick. Nice work Gravy. Those are the people who are going to save us and expose us to the real 'truth'? I don't think so. einsteen and troothydude1234 I would be totally embarassed to be associated with them if I were you.

9th October 2006, 06:08 AM	#9
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	cant wait to see the CTers debunking of it... Jon Gold: i don't like "Gravy", so obviously the paper is a pile of disinformation. Paper officially debunked. lol TAM

9th October 2006, 06:30 AM	#10
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,077	Originally Posted by T.A.M. cant wait to see the CTers debunking of it... Jon Gold: i don't like "Gravy", so obviously the paper is a pile of disinformation. Paper officially debunked. lol TAM Have you seen a photo of him? I have a feeling he asks for extra gravy!
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

9th October 2006, 07:08 AM	#11
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,986	Thank you, thank you.
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,986

9th October 2006, 09:27 AM	#12
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	He looks more like an angry biker rejected by the Hells Angels to me...but I am sure he loves his "Gravy".

9th October 2006, 09:43 AM	#13
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817	Wow. I skimmed through it and it looks like a heck of a great document. Can't wait to read it more thouroughly. After the Amazing Randi, here comes the Amazing Gravy!
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

9th October 2006, 10:16 AM	#14
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,677	Originally Posted by boloboffin Thank you, thank you. Ditto. Very nicely done!
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

9th October 2006, 11:07 AM	#15
Class Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 257	The .doc version was too big to upload, so here's a mirror for the .pdf version. EDIT: Forgot to add, very nice work!
Class Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 257

9th October 2006, 11:32 AM	#16
chipmunk stew Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,448	Mark, you've outdone yourself. I just read through most of it (skimming over some sections), and if this doesn't pull people back from the brink, nothing will. WTC7 was their most alluring myth. Not anymore. Fantastic!

9th October 2006, 11:35 AM	#17
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817	Someone should email this document to Matthew Horton Woodson. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=65684 ETA: I really mean it, if my English was any better, I would do it myself.
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

9th October 2006, 12:08 PM	#18
Abbyas Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 684	Perfect, Mark. Effing Perfect. Easy to read, comprehensively and visually. Humorous when it needs to be and serious when called for. The science is clear, and the layout is great. Very, very nice work. Thank you for this. I will be using it.
Abbyas Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 684	__________________ www.abbyscott.blogspot.com 911 Conspiracy Wars: Nutters at Ground Zero

9th October 2006, 01:48 PM	#19
Lurker Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,189	I just finished reading the pdf doc, Gravy. Very well done. But I do have a complaint. Where the heck were you when I was having this email deabte with a friend of mine about WTC7. Your paper and entensive quotes/pics would have come in handy. Now I just feel stupid as I can just send him your link which does a far better job than I did after about 75 emails. Kudos for a job done.
Lurker Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,189

9th October 2006, 02:24 PM	#20
Hutch A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B Posts: 6,785	Originally Posted by Gravy Have you seen a photo of him? I have a feeling he asks for extra gravy! Hey....Hey....Hey..., I resemble that remark!!
	__________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5

9th October 2006, 02:29 PM	#21
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 571	Gravy, you've got a great point when you mention how the "truthers" have some kind of allergy to editing down their videos. I wish these people didn't have such outright contempt for the written word, so I wouldn't have to sit through their long, boring videos to try to see what they're talking about now. I can read fast, but it's not like I can speed up their videos ... actually, come to think of it, maybe that would make them more entertaining to watch.
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 571

9th October 2006, 02:41 PM	#22
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7,854	Originally Posted by Gravy Available temporarily here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187763 (8 Mb .doc file) and here: http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=187766 (3.8 Mb PDF). Just got through reading it. A tour de force to be sure. Great job. Like you, the thing that angers me the most is how these people slander the very firefighters who risked (and gave) their lives. And all for no reason, other than they want their fiction to be true, want it so badly that they distort, lie, and willingly play along with their "friends" who do. I don't understand the vocal component. It's like having a dumb kid in class who always always shoots up his hand to answer the teacher's question, but is completely unprepared and dead wrong every time. But does that stop him? No, he does it over and over and over again, every day, for years. I never saw a kid like that, not one. Most people keep quiet when they don't know anything. I have no idea where these people come from.
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7,854

9th October 2006, 02:55 PM	#23
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by tacodaemon Gravy, you've got a great point when you mention how the "truthers" have some kind of allergy to editing down their videos. I wish these people didn't have such outright contempt for the written word, so I wouldn't have to sit through their long, boring videos to try to see what they're talking about now. I can read fast, but it's not like I can speed up their videos ... actually, come to think of it, maybe that would make them more entertaining to watch. Like this fast clip in which Gravy takes on a dozen or so troofers. ETA: do'h... this clip

9th October 2006, 03:03 PM	#24
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,785	Of course, it can go into the loosechangeguide.com site. I still think the format of a DOC file, or PDF, is inconvenient for anyone but the most dedicated reader. Any interest in an HTML version?

9th October 2006, 03:03 PM	#25
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	Great job, Gravy! Loved the part where you showed all the firefighters using the words "pull" or "pulled"; very effective!
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

9th October 2006, 03:06 PM	#26
Deus Ex Machina Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 495	Originally Posted by Abbyas Perfect, Mark. Effing Perfect. Easy to read, comprehensively and visually. Humorous when it needs to be and serious when called for. The science is clear, and the layout is great. Very, very nice work. Thank you for this. I will be using it. yep, let me add my inadequate words of praise for a job well done. EXCELLENT!!
	__________________ My principles? They are very much for sale and surprisingly cheap. I take credit cards.

9th October 2006, 03:25 PM	#27
Hutch A broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: About 7 Miles from the Saturn 5B Posts: 6,785	Just finished scaning it Gravy, and very well done indeed. At times your passion in opposing these...well, I guess I must call them gentlemen, although both parts of the word is in some doubt...comes out and interferes in your review, but by and large it is a dispassionate review of the events and the CT'ers and the putrid mess they spew. My admiration for your patience and wilingness to do this is only enhanced by this--kudos to you, and Brainster, and MarkyX , and CurtC, and of course Abbyas and all those who fight against ignorance. If I may suggest, if the FD of NY has a website or Forum, I am sure many of the Firefighters would like to read this online. Most Satisfactory, as a certain fictional New Yorker might have said.
	__________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5

9th October 2006, 07:40 PM	#28
steve s Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,865	Kudos. I haven't read through the entire thing but I skimmed through it. Love your comments about Bermas. It's amazing they let him loose in public. Keep up the good work. Steve S.
steve s Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,865	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

9th October 2006, 09:06 PM	#29
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 571	By the way, Gravy, if you can get your hands on the archived CNN video from 9/11, there's some additional evidence on there that WTC 7's collapse was expected -- the expected collapse was mentioned by the anchor (I think it was Aaron Brown) a couple of times starting about 70 minutes before the collapse actually happened, and they trained a camera on the building because they were waiting for collapse to happen eventually. I saw this on the rebroadcast on 9/11 of this year but unfortunately I wasn't vidcapping it.
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 571

9th October 2006, 09:43 PM	#30
Kent1 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,179	I noticed that you have a much better photo than Steven Jones uses in his paper on page 19. It's on page 95 on your paper. Jones uses this photo to suggest that the workers may be looking at molten steel. http://www.st911.org/
Kent1 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,179

9th October 2006, 09:53 PM	#31
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,785	By the way, Mark, the loosechangeguide.com site has collected enough in Paypal donations to cover the whole first year of expenses, so I've taken the Paypal link down.

9th October 2006, 10:37 PM	#32
LashL Goddess of Legaltainment™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 35,783	Originally Posted by Class The .doc version was too big to upload, so here's a mirror for the .pdf version. EDIT: Forgot to add, very nice work! Thank you for the mirror site with the pdf. That actually showed up better and made the rest of the reading much easier. Plus, it showed all the photos, which were not all showing in the .doc version that I started reading last night. Mark, I've now finished reading the whole thing and - wow - terrific work!!!

9th October 2006, 10:54 PM	#33
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,152	Originally Posted by Kent1 I noticed that you have a much better photo than Steven Jones uses in his paper on page 19. It's on page 95 on your paper. Jones uses this photo to suggest that the workers may be looking at molten steel. http://www.st911.org/ I made a post on the paper and that pic on SLC. Excellent work.
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,152	__________________ I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago. -David Ray Griffin-

10th October 2006, 12:57 AM	#34
mcMike Student Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 43	Originally Posted by JamesB I made a post on the paper and that pic on SLC. Excellent work. Can anyone validate where's this original photo from? It seems like Jones faked the photo with postprocessing but I would like to first see evidence of unprocessed source. Thanks.
mcMike Student Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 43

10th October 2006, 01:50 AM	#35
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,873	Awesome. There is only one Mark Roberts, no matter how much we all wish we are all Mark Roberts (and no matter how much the deniers wish we all are too).
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". Last edited by Orphia Nay; 10th October 2006 at 01:52 AM.