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Old 18th October 2006, 07:10 PM   #1
LaPalida
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New Chronology by Mr Fomenko... is it valid?

Hi, I am new here. I hope this is the right forum for this topic ... if not pls forgive me for making a mistake

Anyway to cut to the chase: While browsing around on YouTube I came accross a video called "Dark Age as result clerical chronology manipulation" (it's painfully long).

To summarize: Anatoli Fomenko, who is a Russian mathematician, came up with this theory of New Chronology which states that the chronology of the world as we know it is wrong, that Roman Greek and Egyptian histories were made up in the Middle Ages, that human history is only about 1,200 years long, and that the carbon dating methods are unreliable (as well as a few other claims - you can find more on wiki).

Surprisingly I didn't find any entries in Skepdic or other Skeptical sources about this guy. Is his theory that new? I am curious to know if anyone here has anything to say about this guy. Any info would be appreciated. Fomeonko's theory has been dismissed by mainstream historians as pseudoscience ofcourse however when I went to Amazon to check out this book that the guy is pimping around it's rating was 4 1/2 stars! Why are people praising his work? Has anyone read this book and can shed some light on this? I'd hate to spend money and find out for myself heh.
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Old 18th October 2006, 07:36 PM   #2
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I can assure you with almost 100% certainty that this is utter nonsense. The only reason I say almost is because I have not seen his arguments. I will never discount an argument from someone until I have heard everything they have had to say. First, carbon dating methods have been proven to be reliable in labratories. Second, there is a whole lot more evidence than just carbon dating that humans have been around for alot longer than 1,200 years. Third, are we to assume that middle age folk could manufacture everything that we see form Greek, Roman, and Egyptian architecture, create every single document we have from the time, etc. and leave absolutely no evidence of the forgery? I have never heard anything about this fellow, but I imagine that he is either very new, or skeptics have never bothered to debunk him because he is so far out there. Honestly, from what you say of his claims, the stuff that this guy is pushing seems even more outlandish than creationist claims....
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Old 18th October 2006, 07:43 PM   #3
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Those middle ages people must have been really thorough, because we're still finding lots of "alleged" writings from the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. So guys in the middle ages built the pyramids complete with internal writing, weathered them to make them look thousands of years old, then completely destroyed all the evidence of hoaxery?

Reeeealy?
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Old 18th October 2006, 07:52 PM   #4
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His method of determining that the Earth is only 1,200 years old is flawed to say the least. He says that during any given time period, the more important an event is, the more it will be documented. So he measures the number of lines written in a document about various events, and compares those figures to other texts. If there is a "statistical correlation", then these two time periods overlap. So, if text A spends 4 pages describing a war against a particular enemy, 2 pages not talking about war, and then 5 pages talking about a different war, and text B spends the same space talking about war/not war, then these two texts discribe the same event, and thus happened at the same time.

Also, he asks us to throw out just about every single method we have to date documents/artifacts, and then claims that if we exclude those dating methods, not a single artifact or document can reliably be dated before 11th century. I think it is safe to say this guy is bonkers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chr...ko%29#_note-F2

Edit: Also, welcome to the forums :-)

Last edited by HappyCat; 18th October 2006 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 18th October 2006, 08:35 PM   #5
LaPalida
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Thanks for the reply and the welcome. I think my title is misleading in the way I worded it. I don't think this guy is credible at all... I just didn't want to bias the the subject with my view right off. It was just surprising to me that I didn't see much of anything in the way of reference about this guy even though his "theory" is actually a continuation of another earlier "theory". I hope that he gets added to one of skeptic websites (like Skepdic) as a reference. I find that many people I know of (I come from Russia), that are pretty notorious (people like Kashpirovsky or Porfiry Ivanov), are hardly even mentioned in many references that I use. Are there other good websites out there that could provide an encyclopedic reference for a skeptic?

Last edited by LaPalida; 18th October 2006 at 08:36 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 18th October 2006, 09:26 PM   #6
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Unpossible as Ralph would say.
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Old 19th October 2006, 12:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by LaPalida View Post
Thanks for the reply and the welcome. I think my title is misleading in the way I worded it. I don't think this guy is credible at all... I just didn't want to bias the the subject with my view right off. It was just surprising to me that I didn't see much of anything in the way of reference about this guy even though his "theory" is actually a continuation of another earlier "theory". I hope that he gets added to one of skeptic websites (like Skepdic) as a reference. I find that many people I know of (I come from Russia), that are pretty notorious (people like Kashpirovsky or Porfiry Ivanov), are hardly even mentioned in many references that I use. Are there other good websites out there that could provide an encyclopedic reference for a skeptic?
This is an article that debunks Fomenko:
Was The First Queen of Denmark a Man?

It's rubbish. A sublime waste of time.
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Old 19th October 2006, 12:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CFLarsen View Post
This is an article that debunks Fomenko:
Was The First Queen of Denmark a Man?

It's rubbish. A sublime waste of time.
As an actor I have to mention that many folks think Queen Elizabeth was a man.

At any rate What does this guy say about the Aztecs, the Myans, the Chinese, etc...? Did they just pop up?
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Old 19th October 2006, 12:41 AM   #9
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The reason these people aren't addressed by skeptics first is that they really need to see a psychologist first, and have their brains brushed straight again.
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Old 19th October 2006, 02:12 AM   #10
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http://www.univer.omsk.su/foreign/fom/fom.htm

I have to say this is one of my favourite examples of clever people being astonishingly wrong ever. I showed this to a friend who studied history at university and she said she wished she'd known about this, because then she could've titled her thesis "History: it's shorter than you think!"
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Old 19th October 2006, 04:13 AM   #11
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Last Thursdayism
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Old 19th October 2006, 07:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by LaPalida View Post
Thanks for the reply and the welcome. I think my title is misleading in the way I worded it. I don't think this guy is credible at all... I just didn't want to bias the the subject with my view right off. It was just surprising to me that I didn't see much of anything in the way of reference about this guy even though his "theory" is actually a continuation of another earlier "theory". I hope that he gets added to one of skeptic websites (like Skepdic) as a reference. I find that many people I know of (I come from Russia), that are pretty notorious (people like Kashpirovsky or Porfiry Ivanov), are hardly even mentioned in many references that I use. Are there other good websites out there that could provide an encyclopedic reference for a skeptic?
The reason you would hopefully not see a lot about him and his theory could well be : there is too much reality to know about - why waste time on a nut's unreality.
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Old 19th October 2006, 07:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
As an actor I have to mention that many folks think Queen Elizabeth was a man.
Many folks think Dubya is a man, too. That still doesn't make him one.

(oooooh, I'm so going to Gitmo for that one....and you're all coming with me!)
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Old 19th October 2006, 10:02 AM   #14
LaPalida
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Hmm. I dunno I still think that there should be a good reference out there about these nuts. Remember that "security through obscurity" doesn't work.

Quote:
Many folks think Dubya is a man, too. That still doesn't make him one.
Hah. Chavez knows who Dubya really is. He can see right through the fire and brimstone.
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Old 19th October 2006, 10:54 AM   #15
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It's the Xena Warrior Princess theory of history, where everything in the ancient world was more or less contemporary, so Julius Caesar's conquest of Britain, the origins of Stonehenge, the Athenian school of philosophy, and probably the construction of the pyramids, all happened at the same time...
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Old 22nd October 2006, 05:18 AM   #16
geni
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
The reason these people aren't addressed by skeptics first is that they really need to see a psychologist first, and have their brains brushed straight again.
Problem is he has followers.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 05:29 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Problem is he has followers.
Any nut can get followers, where is he leading them?
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Old 22nd October 2006, 05:29 AM   #18
CFLarsen
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
As an actor I have to mention that many folks think Queen Elizabeth was a man.

At any rate What does this guy say about the Aztecs, the Myans, the Chinese, etc...? Did they just pop up?
"There is no spoon".
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Old 22nd October 2006, 05:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by CFLarsen View Post
"There is no spoon".
Forking idiots...
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Old 22nd October 2006, 06:07 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CFLarsen View Post
"There is no spoon".
I believe in spoons without them there would be no soup.

Prove soup does not exist.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 06:16 AM   #21
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Mr. Fomenkos theories have been discussed widely, but mainly in Russian, as majority of his works are in Russian and his followers are also mainly Russian speaking.
There are a lot of pro and contra information on this site:
hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/
(put http before the link, as I'm not allowed to post links jet)

A lot of effort has been put in debunking New Chronology and that work has been done on a serious academic level - in academic papers and even in a scientific conference at Moscow State University.
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Old 22nd October 2006, 06:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DHR View Post
Any nut can get followers, where is he leading them?
I'm not sure. Problem is that this is takeing place in Russia and I can't read Russian.
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Old 24th September 2007, 09:11 AM   #23
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Chronology issue

The British Encyclopaedia names Joseph Justus Scaliger (1540-1609) as the founder of the consensual chronology we live with. Scaliger had considered himself a great mathematician and boasted to have solved the classical “ancient” mathematical ‘Quadrature of Circle’ problem that was subsequently proven insoluble.

Edited by Miss A:  Snipped per rule 4


You don't believe it? Go and Google>books>fomenko the books are 100% free!

Mod Warning Again I will remind you that the membership agreement prohibits pasting the full text of copyrighted material. Provide a link and a summary only.
Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:Miss Anthrope

Last edited by Miss Anthrope; 24th September 2007 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 24th September 2007, 10:10 AM   #24
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I read most of that, but it was a little on the blathering side. But the Conspiracy Theories sub-forum doesn't seem like the right place (I know it's not your fault, the thread is a year old). Maybe a mod could move it to Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology?

Mod Warning Agreed
Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:Miss Anthrope
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Last edited by Miss Anthrope; 24th September 2007 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 24th September 2007, 09:36 PM   #25
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So this explains the appearance of the "history denial" thread. Not much to talk about there because all it was was the stuff that ruslan posted here.
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Old 5th January 2008, 12:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Oh. I thougt that "last thursday" was just another meme from *chan.
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