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Tags mohamed atta , ayman al zawahiri , al qaeda , 911 hijackers

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Old 8th November 2006, 03:39 AM   #1
Oliver
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Exclamation Need your help: The Al-Qaida scholars

The mystery that the hijackers were stupid cavemen
is still spread all over the internet. Infact most of them
were graduated people that were not stupid at all.

I collected some information about some of the hijackers
and i would appreciate if you in here could help me to collect
more information about the hijackers degrees. This information
also could be added to the FAQ that is in progress.

Thanks for your help,
- Oliver

Quote:
Al-Zawahiri studied behavior, psychology and pharmacology as part of his medical degree at Cairo University.

bin Laden graduated from the university in Jeddah.

Marwan al-Shehhi: It took two years for him to learn enough German before he enrolled in a university with a military scholarship.

Atta graduated with a degree in architecture from Cairo University (YES! THE JUNKIE...)

Said Bahaji: He enrolled in an electrical engineering program at a technical university in 1996

Ziad Jarrah:In 1997, Jarrah left Greifswald and instead began studying aerospace engineering at the University of Applied Sciences in Hamburg.
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Old 8th November 2006, 04:19 AM   #2
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Al-Shehhi:

Son of a prayer leader in a local mosque in the UAE. He graduated from high school in 1995, and joined the Emirati military. He served as a sergeant in the army and was admitted to a military scholarship program that funded his continued study in Germany.
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Old 8th November 2006, 04:21 AM   #3
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Sorry Olly I woud help, but my NWO handlers say I must perpetuate the myth of cave dwellers so I will have to say that they were all Paleoanthropologists and quarry workers who were tricked into evil deeds by Osama and Saddam to further the cause of Islam.
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Old 8th November 2006, 04:22 AM   #4
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Wikipedia has decent biographical information for the hijackers. Of course, always double-check. Section 5.3 of the Commission Report gives details of the education of the members of the Hamburg cell.
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Old 8th November 2006, 04:28 AM   #5
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And let's not forget about the boss.

Quote:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
No one exemplifies the model of the terrorist entrepreneur more clearly than Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks. KSM followed a rather tortuous path to his eventual membership in al Qaeda.1 Highly educated and equally comfortable in a government office or a terrorist safehouse, KSM applied his imagination, technical aptitude, and managerial skills to hatching and planning an extraordinary array of terrorist schemes. These ideas included conventional car bombing, political assassination, aircraft bombing, hijacking, reservoir poisoning, and, ultimately, the use of aircraft as missiles guided by suicide operatives.

Like his nephew Ramzi Yousef (three years KSM's junior), KSM grew up in Kuwait but traces his ethnic lineage to the Baluchistan region straddling Iran and Pakistan. Raised in a religious family, KSM claims to have joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 16 and to have become enamored of violent jihad at youth camps in the desert. In 1983, following his graduation from secondary school, KSM left Kuwait to enroll at Chowan College, a small Baptist school in Murfreesboro, North Carolina. After a semester at Chowan, KSM transferred to North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University in Greensboro, which he attended with Yousef's brother, another future al Qaeda member. KSM earned a degree in mechanical engineering in December 1986. http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm
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Old 8th November 2006, 04:33 AM   #6
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Khalid Shaykh Muhammad (KSM) is one of history's most infamous terrorists, and his capture in 2003 deprived al-Qa'ida of one of its most capable senior operatives. He devoted most of his adult life to terrorist plotting, specifically against the United States. and was the driving force behind the attacks on 11 September 2001 as well as several subsequent plots against US and Western targets worldwide.

After graduating from North Carolina A&T State University in 1986 with a degree in mechanical engineering, KSM traveled to Afghanistan to participate in the anti-Soviet fighting there. KSM joined Yousef in the Philippines in 1994 to plan the "Bojinka" plot -- the simultaneous bombings of a dozen US-flagged commercial airliners over the Pacific. After the plot was disrupted and Yousef was caught in early 1995, KSM was indicted for his role in the plot and went into hiding. By 1999, he convinced Usama Bin Ladin to provide him with operatives and funding for a new airliner plot, which culminated in the attacks on 11 September two years later.

* KSM headed al-Qa'ida's Media Committee from 2000 and he helped build close operational ties between al-Qa'ida and the Jemaah Islamiya (JI) terrorist group that was plotting against US and Israeli targets in Southeast Asia.

By late 2001, with the collapse of the Taliban regime and the dispersal of al-Qa'ida's leadership, the prestige associated with engineering the attacks on 11 September propelled KSM into the role of external operations chief for al-Qa'ida.

* In addition to plots targeting Britain, KSM launched several plots targeting the US Homeland, including a plot in late 2001 to have 11 suicide operatives hijack a plane over the Pacific and crash it into a skyscraper on the US West Coast; a plan in early 2002 to send al-Qa'ida operatives to conduct attacks in the U.S.; and a plot in early 2003 to employ a network of Pakistanis -- including Majid Khan -- to smuggle explosives into New York and to target gas stations, railroad tracks, and a bridge in New York.
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Old 8th November 2006, 05:25 AM   #7
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Thank you very much so far. I especially know the backgrounds of
the german cell because they are very well documented but maybe
some of you in here do know more about the spanish and english
cells as well in terms of degrees?

- Oliver
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Old 8th November 2006, 09:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
In 1983, following his graduation from secondary school, KSM left Kuwait to enroll at Chowan College, a small Baptist school in Murfreesboro, North Carolina. After a semester at Chowan, KSM transferred to North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University in Greensboro, which he attended with Yousef's brother, another future al Qaeda member. KSM earned a degree in mechanical engineering in December 1986. http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm
I often imagine these really well-educated and scientifically trained Al-Qaeda guys sitting around in their "caves" (which they were only forced into by the war in Afghanistan after 9/11, by the way), chortling over the 9/11 "Troof" Movement's mangling and distortions of science, that supposedly "prove" they weren't responsible for 9/11.

"Hey Ali-buddy (whatever his name), did you see the latest idiocy on this webpage by this "Troofer"??? They really believe it would've taken thousands of pounds of explosives to bring those towers down!!"

"Well those Americans, they're always using overkill anyway!"

"Yeah, what idiots!"
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Old 8th November 2006, 08:23 PM   #9
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I'm sure you can get better info from somewhere, but I believe OBL's degree was in engineering - and remember his father started up a highly successful construction company in Saudi Arabia.

It's also worth mentioning their EXPERIENCE as well as their QUALIFICATIONS. For example, they defeated the Soviet Army (no small feat). You can learn some more regarding their tactics etc. from the book "The Bear Went Over The Mountain".

In addition they were involved in numerous other activities; including Chechnya, Bosnia, Somalia, and Nigeria. Take Somalia and the infamous "Black Hawk Down" incident. The 4 or 5 UH-60's shot down in that battle (yup, they got more than two!) were all damaged by RPG rounds to the tail rotor. This was a distinct tactic developed by OBL's Mujahedeen in Afghanistan to deal with Russian attack helicopters. Of course, in Afghanistan they used superior American Stinger missiles, but in Somalia the Al Qaeda members trained the militia to barrage the tails of the american helicopters with multiple rounds at once.

-Gumboot
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Old 8th November 2006, 09:04 PM   #10
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Hey, they are more qualified than most of the members of the "Scholars" for 9/11 "Truth".
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Old 8th November 2006, 09:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
Hey, they are more qualified than most of the members of the "Scholars" for 9/11 "Truth".
It would be interesting to hear what Al-Qaida thinks of the scholars. LOL!
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Old 8th November 2006, 09:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kent1 View Post
It would be interesting to hear what Al-Qaida thinks of the "scholars". LOL!
Lamp post fairys, space lazers....no highjackers... no flight 93...no planes..... Bah ha ha ha....
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Old 8th November 2006, 09:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Thank you very much so far. I especially know the backgrounds of
the german cell because they are very well documented but maybe
some of you in here do know more about the spanish and english
cells as well in terms of degrees?

- Oliver
The folks I know of at clearinghouse.infovlad.net know a lot about this sort of thing. They are experts. Many know Arabic and know of the videos made in the Mid East that actually praise the "Lions Who Brought the War to the American's Soil"
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Old 9th November 2006, 01:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
After graduating from North Carolina A&T State University in 1986 with a degree in mechanical engineering,
Sigh I knew this would come from this post. My Alma mater... That SOB.
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Old 9th November 2006, 01:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bill Thompson View Post
The folks I know of at clearinghouse.infovlad.net know a lot about this sort of thing. They are experts. Many know Arabic and know of the videos made in the Mid East that actually praise the "Lions Who Brought the War to the American's Soil"
Thank you for the info, Bill. Could you aks in there
about the hijackers and AQ-degrees - if you have
an account at this board?
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Old 9th November 2006, 05:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
I'm sure you can get better info from somewhere, but I believe OBL's degree was in engineering - and remember his father started up a highly successful construction company in Saudi Arabia.

It's also worth mentioning their EXPERIENCE as well as their QUALIFICATIONS. For example, they defeated the Soviet Army (no small feat). You can learn some more regarding their tactics etc. from the book "The Bear Went Over The Mountain".

In addition they were involved in numerous other activities; including Chechnya, Bosnia, Somalia, and Nigeria. Take Somalia and the infamous "Black Hawk Down" incident. The 4 or 5 UH-60's shot down in that battle (yup, they got more than two!) were all damaged by RPG rounds to the tail rotor. This was a distinct tactic developed by OBL's Mujahedeen in Afghanistan to deal with Russian attack helicopters. Of course, in Afghanistan they used superior American Stinger missiles, but in Somalia the Al Qaeda members trained the militia to barrage the tails of the american helicopters with multiple rounds at once.

-Gumboot
The Mujahideen wasn't what became al-Qaida. They were native Afghanis of varying ethnicity. There was a group called the Afghan-Arabs which were Arabs who went to Afghanistan for the jihad but they were vastly outnumbered by native Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc. OBL has overstated his role in the defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan, and done it vastly. I think he may have overstated the role AQ played in the shootdown of the UH-60s in Mogadishu. The Soviets were defeated by the Muj far and away.

There were 2 UH-60s shot down, and one damaged to the point that it had to be returned to the AFB and grounded. The 2 that were shot down were indeed hit by RPG-7 rounds to the tail rotor. The third was hit near the main rotor and did not crash. For every hit on those helicopters, there was an average of 100 that missed, according to the soldiers who were there (you can hear them say this on the DVD commentary by Sgt. Matt Eversman and other members of Task Force Ranger in the extended version of the Black Hawk Down movie). It wasn't described as a barrage either, just a lot of rockets in the air with 3 that were lucky hits. There were also lots of RPGs fired at the AH-6 Little Birds, but none were hits, probably because they are smaller and faster.

As far as I know, none of the 19 hijackers fought the Soviets in Afghanistan - even OBL's experience there was as a latecomer (the battle of Jalalabad was in the final year of that decade-long war). There's a sequel to The Bear Went Over the Mountain, called The Other Side of the Mountain, which is taken from interviews with the Mujahideen itself - it's out of print, but well worth it to read if you find it.
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Old 10th November 2006, 01:43 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The Mujahideen wasn't what became al-Qaida. They were native Afghanis of varying ethnicity. There was a group called the Afghan-Arabs which were Arabs who went to Afghanistan for the jihad but they were vastly outnumbered by native Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc.

"Mujahideen" are simply Islamic Jihad fighters. The "Afghan Mujahideen" are specifically the Islamic Jihad fighter who fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan. A percentage of them came from outside Afghanistan. US, British, and Pakistani intelligence spent a lot of time and money funnelling these people into Afghanistan from around the world. Osama Bin Laden was selected to act as an official Saudi representative in this process (at the request of the ISI). Not all of the Mujahideen became Al Qaeda. After the Soviets were defeated the various facets (they weren't very unified) fought each other, and one of the Mujahideen groups took control - the Taliban. Another Mujahideen group - MAK, became Al Qaeda.



Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
OBL has overstated his role in the defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan, and done it vastly. I think he may have overstated the role AQ played in the shootdown of the UH-60s in Mogadishu. The Soviets were defeated by the Muj far and away.

I doubt the Somalia connection is overstated. The entire Battle of Mogadishu is a classic Afghani Mujahideen tactic. The CIA themselves have commented that Clinton's hasty withdrawal from Somalia may have delayed the agency's discovery of Al Qaeda for some years.




Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
There were 2 UH-60s shot down, and one damaged to the point that it had to be returned to the AFB and grounded.

Two were shot down in hostile territory. Another crashed in friendly territory, and two others survived long enough to reach the US Base.




Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
For every hit on those helicopters, there was an average of 100 that missed, according to the soldiers who were there

Yes, the RPG-7s did not have the accuracy of the Stinger, thus they compensated by firing barrages of as many as 30 RPG-7s at a time at a single helicopter. It didn't matter that most missed. As per Afghanistan, the trap was set. The trigger was to shoot down one or two aircraft, and then decimate the rescue forces. This was done repeatedly to the Soviets in Afghanistan, with alarming success. The Americans walked right into the trap, however the US soldiers proved superior.



Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
As far as I know, none of the 19 hijackers fought the Soviets in Afghanistan

It doesn't matter whether they personally did or not. The hijackers were working for an organisation that had ample real-world combat experience in numerous theatres.

You may also have under-estimated OBL's involvement in Afghanistan - it is my understanding he went to Afghanistan immediately after getting his civil engineering degree from King Abdulaziz University in 1979. He went there and joined up with Abdullah Azzam - his former tutor at the university. That would place him directly in the middle of Anti-Soviet operations from the beginning of the war.

-Gumboot
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Old 10th November 2006, 04:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
"Mujahideen" are simply Islamic Jihad fighters. The "Afghan Mujahideen" are specifically the Islamic Jihad fighter who fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan. A percentage of them came from outside Afghanistan. US, British, and Pakistani intelligence spent a lot of time and money funnelling these people into Afghanistan from around the world. Osama Bin Laden was selected to act as an official Saudi representative in this process (at the request of the ISI). Not all of the Mujahideen became Al Qaeda. After the Soviets were defeated the various facets (they weren't very unified) fought each other, and one of the Mujahideen groups took control - the Taliban. Another Mujahideen group - MAK, became Al Qaeda.
Very little of the Mujahideen became al-Qaida. The Taliban was not a Mujahideen group. It was formed in Pakistan from refugees years after the end of the Soviet-Afghan war. The Taliban ("students") were called that because they were taught the Deobandi/Wahhabi version of Islam in Saudi-funded madrassas in Pakistan. The ISI cultivated them there to form a strategic retreat nation in case of major war with India. The Mujahideen leftover from the Soviet War were the ones who were ousted by the Taliban.

Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
"Yes, the RPG-7s did not have the accuracy of the Stinger, thus they compensated by firing barrages of as many as 30 RPG-7s at a time at a single helicopter. It didn't matter that most missed. As per Afghanistan, the trap was set. The trigger was to shoot down one or two aircraft, and then decimate the rescue forces. This was done repeatedly to the Soviets in Afghanistan, with alarming success. The Americans walked right into the trap, however the US soldiers proved superior.
The RPG-7 and the Stinger aren't even in the same class. One is an anti-tank rocket, the other is a heat-seeking anti-aircraft missile. I understand the motivation for the shootdown of the UH-60s. I'm saying that with that many RPG rounds in the air it was only a matter of time before one would hit a Blackhawk - it need not be an al-Qaida devised plan. I gathered from the interviews that the RPGs were not barraged, but rather fired randomly with several hitting.
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Old 21st November 2006, 06:53 PM   #19
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*bump* for Karim.
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Old 28th November 2006, 08:29 PM   #20
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I recommend reading the following two books for more information about al-Qaeda and the 9/11 hijackers:

Perfect Soldiers: The 9/11 Hijackers. Who They Were, Why They Did It.
The Looming Tower: al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11.
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Old 28th November 2006, 08:34 PM   #21
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Maybe you have some info about it off the cuff?

And welcome on board,
Demon´s Head.
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Old 29th November 2006, 02:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
The RPG-7 and the Stinger aren't even in the same class. One is an anti-tank rocket, the other is a heat-seeking anti-aircraft missile. I understand the motivation for the shootdown of the UH-60s. I'm saying that with that many RPG rounds in the air it was only a matter of time before one would hit a Blackhawk - it need not be an al-Qaida devised plan. I gathered from the interviews that the RPGs were not barraged, but rather fired randomly with several hitting.

I'm quite aware of the differences in the two weapons. You seem to have missed my point. The distinctly Al-Qaeda-like tactic was to use weapons to down a helicopter by taking out the tail rotor, and use the crashed helicopter as bait to draw in and then trap ground forces.

It's no coincidence that the Battle of Mogadishu (which turned out so differently to all previous routine Task Force Ranger "snatches") occured about the time that people like Ali Mohamed claim they started assisting the militia.

-Gumboot
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Old 21st December 2006, 09:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Maybe you have some info about it off the cuff?

And welcome on board,
Demon´s Head.
What would you like to know about the two books I mentioned?

And my apologies for the delay of responding to your question.
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Old 21st December 2006, 10:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The Demon's Head View Post
What would you like to know about the two books I mentioned?

And my apologies for the delay of responding to your question.
Thanks for your reply, Demon's Head. I would like to complete
the list about all 19 Hijacker and their school careers.
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Old 4th July 2007, 02:33 PM   #25
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*Bump* for the "Newbies" in here, feel free to add your information regarding the topic.
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Old 4th July 2007, 03:24 PM   #26
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Maybe "arabs in caves" is a codeword for "arabs who have achieved advanced degrees at various European and Middle Eastern universities"?
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Old 4th July 2007, 04:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
Maybe "arabs in caves" is a codeword for "arabs who have achieved advanced degrees at various European and Middle Eastern universities"?

Well, I guess that "Arabs from caves" is meant literally from people who claim this fallacy to be true.

By the way: Why did you left your thread? :

100% Proof Islamic Threat is Overblown ( 1 2 3 4)
parky76 (2nd July 2007)
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Old 4th July 2007, 05:03 PM   #28
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Oddly enough in the latest false flag, 8 of the Muslims arrested following the London and Glasgow bombing attempts, including Gold Coast doctor Mohammed Haneef, are in fact doctors.

Stupid cavemen.
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Old 4th July 2007, 05:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by hellaeon View Post

Quite amazing, isn't it?

I wonder if there is anything like a "Caveman" out there who is able to harm us.
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Old 4th July 2007, 06:42 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
"Mujahideen" are simply Islamic Jihad fighters. The "Afghan Mujahideen" are specifically the Islamic Jihad fighter who fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan. A percentage of them came from outside Afghanistan. US, British, and Pakistani intelligence spent a lot of time and money funnelling these people into Afghanistan from around the world. Osama Bin Laden was selected to act as an official Saudi representative in this process (at the request of the ISI). Not all of the Mujahideen became Al Qaeda. After the Soviets were defeated the various facets (they weren't very unified) fought each other, and one of the Mujahideen groups took control - the Taliban. Another Mujahideen group - MAK, became Al Qaeda.






I doubt the Somalia connection is overstated. The entire Battle of Mogadishu is a classic Afghani Mujahideen tactic. The CIA themselves have commented that Clinton's hasty withdrawal from Somalia may have delayed the agency's discovery of Al Qaeda for some years.







Two were shot down in hostile territory. Another crashed in friendly territory, and two others survived long enough to reach the US Base.







Yes, the RPG-7s did not have the accuracy of the Stinger, thus they compensated by firing barrages of as many as 30 RPG-7s at a time at a single helicopter. It didn't matter that most missed. As per Afghanistan, the trap was set. The trigger was to shoot down one or two aircraft, and then decimate the rescue forces. This was done repeatedly to the Soviets in Afghanistan, with alarming success. The Americans walked right into the trap, however the US soldiers proved superior.






It doesn't matter whether they personally did or not. The hijackers were working for an organisation that had ample real-world combat experience in numerous theatres.

You may also have under-estimated OBL's involvement in Afghanistan - it is my understanding he went to Afghanistan immediately after getting his civil engineering degree from King Abdulaziz University in 1979. He went there and joined up with Abdullah Azzam - his former tutor at the university. That would place him directly in the middle of Anti-Soviet operations from the beginning of the war.

-Gumboot
I'll try to find the link but, if memory serves, OBL worked for the Al Qaeda construction company in Saudi Arabia for a couple of years after his graduation. He was not a devout Muslim at that time. It was when he was put in charge of refurbishing Mecca and Medina shrines that he came under the influence of a Radical cleric and became radicalized himself. That is when the Saudi Government kicked him out of the Kingdom.
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Old 4th July 2007, 09:15 PM   #31
Kage
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Quite amazing, isn't it?

I wonder if there is anything like a "Caveman" out there who is able to harm us.
I've seen the geico commercials. Those cavemen are more sophisticated than you think.
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