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#1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,994
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Damn watch puzzle
Anyone got any hints or suspicions on this guy? I'm not even sure exactly what it's supposed to be displaying on the right. Is that the day of the month? The minute of the hour?? WTF is going on there?
And the top has the day of the month, I presume. I just don't get it, but it's driving me crazy. |
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#2 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,606
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What watch puzzle?
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#3 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 3,104
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#4 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,994
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You know. The one in the latest commentary. Hence my posting it here in the Latest Commentary Issues section of the forum.
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#5 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 119
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This watch:
Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso Squadra Chronograph GMT Try a google search. jbs |
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#6 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,704
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The positions of the hands are not possible.
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#7 |
Degenerate Gambler
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,088
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My solution, as submitted moments ago:
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#8 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 3,104
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#9 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 119
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What the trick to creating the hidden text box? (the spoiler show) I may not have enough posts to use it yet, but when I can it's a nice capability!
jbs |
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#10 |
Defollyant Iconoclast
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,018
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Here you go...
'Luthon64 |
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"The cynics were watchdogs terrifying malefactors. They tried to expose falseness and conceit. That's why their name is still spoken with a snarl." — Petr Skrabanek, In Defence of Destructive Criticism. |
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#12 |
Rabid radioactive stargazer and JREF kid
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,086
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I'm wondering if Randi didn't think that all four dials are interconnectoed...be interesting to see why he says that watch can't exist.
I love watches with lots of extra dials and hands and buttons and are half an inch thick and weigh so much you walk slouched over to one side... By the way...this beastie ain't cheap...as I found at http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...0&rev=&reveal= Prices are as follows: In US Dollars... 1. SS on strap $7,950 croc or rubber 2. SS on bracelet $9,150 3. 18ktR on strap $16,750 croc or rubber 4. 18ktR on bracelet $26,300 Hey, at those prices, I'll take two... |
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"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?" Charlie in Dayton |
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#13 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 119
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#14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 28,756
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The angles between hours on the main face seem to vary. This may be a photographic artifact, but I doubt it.
This implies that the main hand gears must be elliptical. It's a Kepler watch! |
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#15 |
New Blood
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2
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I see one obvious fault. Hint: Check the shadows.
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#16 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,312
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The only thing that strikes me as strange are the date counters at the top.
Where that watch pivots, I can't see how they would fit. If in a disc format, too wide, and if in a wheel format the case is too thin at that number size... I admit that I don't know anything much about watches... it just strikes me as odd... Edit: Looking further, most watches have a date thing like that to the right edge to accomodate what appears to be a rotating disc with the numbers 1 - 31. Put at the top it simply wouldn't fit at that size... |
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#17 |
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 17,135
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Antique Hunter, thanks for the detailed description of the watch's functions.
Years ago I read somewhere that advertisments for analog watches usually depict the watch set for around ten minutes after ten o'clock, as it was deemed the most aesthetically pleasing placement of the hands. Since reading that, I've noticed that it is true more often than not. I assume that part of the reason it is so "aersthetically pleasing" is that it is symmetrical. So I was surprised that the hands of the sub-dials on this watch weren't symmetrical. |
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Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc? |
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#18 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 374
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#19 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,180
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The watch actually exists, so the date counter must function as advertised. I see at least three ways it could work: one is a disc the size of the entire watch numberbered 1-31. Another is two smaller discs. One has the numbers _*, 1*, 2* and 3* where '*' is a hole in the disc and _ is a black space for 0. Yet another is two cylinders lying with their axes from top to bottom across the number windows.
It does seem to me that the large 1-31 disc wouldn't work, so that gives me yet another idea: two large discs, one labeled 1-16 and one labeled 17-31 with a hole where 32 would be. For the first half of the month the hole lays on top and the 1-16 disc moves under it. |
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#20 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 374
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#21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
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http://www.thewatchquote.com/mesIMG/imgStd/17534.jpg
Here is another of their watches. Look at the date and you will see the 6 is further back than the 2. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#22 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,312
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To the last 3 posters: Y'all make sense to me. Told you I didn't know anything about watches...
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#23 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,994
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So it seems the consensus is that the watch is real and perfectly functional. Anyone have any idea what Randi is talking about, then?
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#24 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,180
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I assumed he met the inconsistent dial positions. But I immediately thought "what are those dials supposed to show, anyhow?" AntiqueHunter owns a similar watch and he gave a logical explanation for the dial positions. Quite a few clocks and watches have two unrelated time mechanisms also--there are a few time zones that are in half-hour increments, so it isn't sufficient to have an alternate time zone dial that only deviates by hours.
On the other hand, I wonder if AntiqueHunter is correct. The 12/24 dial looks to me like it should be reading either 10 or 22, and it isn't. And I'd expect a seconds dial also... From the shadows I would place the light source in the upper left of the picture, but the truth is you can get inconsistent looking shadows by careful placement of several small lights. |
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#25 |
New Blood
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2
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Apologies if this turns out to be a spoiler, but I'll go out on a limb here and point out the second hand.
It casts no shadow, yet clearly passes over the top of the hour and minute hands which do cast shadows. So it's either a bad image paste, or the second hand wraps over the other two down to the surface of the face preventing any movement. As for the other points Randi mentioned, I have no idea. |
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#26 |
New Blood
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6
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This puzzle caught my interest with enough of a whomp to get me to finally register for the forum to be able to comment on this thread.
Given that Mr. Randi specifically talks about the ad design, I imagine that one aspect of what he is objecting to is probably perspective/shadow issues. Given that this is clearly a real watch, I think the image may have been modified. The thing that struck me is that this is the only full face image of the watch I have seen - all the other pictures linked show the watch angled slightly to the left, to show off the band as well as the face. Has anyone else noticed that in the angled pictures on the Watch Quote site, the word at the top of the watch is 'Automatic', but in the commentary photo it is 'Automatique'? I think that whoever made the Neiman-Marcus ad may have taken one of these angled images and altered it to get their full front image. This would lead to all kinds of interesting distortions which would then need to be fixed, including the print -- which could explain both the change in the word, and whatever objections to the image that Mr. Randi has. |
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#28 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,112
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#29 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,180
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If the 24 hour indicator can be adjusted for any time zone then the dials at least are all possible. It's true about the shadows, but you'd be hard pressed to find an ad image in Time that didn't have details like that retouched.
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#30 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,574
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D-oh! I just solved it! It's staring everyone in the face!
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#31 |
Forum ¾-Wit Pro Tem
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,191
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I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim. Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy |
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#32 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 27,573
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I have put my response as a spoiler. I think I am giving some sort of answer. Edit: I was a bit slow. Metullus got part of my answer first. |
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#33 |
FAQ Creator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,125
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Administrator Emeritus, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe Forum |
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#34 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,574
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#35 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,112
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What I emailed Randi, if anyone's interested...
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#36 |
Degenerate Gambler
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,088
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Just a couple of additional comments:
In my Avatar, there is a watch (a Dubey & Schaldenbrand) with the same type of date mechanism - it works. Again - slick mechanics. Someone commented about the 2nd timezone dial (the one at 6 o'clock) being incremented only in hours - this register doesn't only tick over on the hour, but the hand will slowly move to the next indicator as the hour progresses. Therefore, if the 2nd timezone was a 1/2 hour out, the indicator would simply show up as being halfway between two markers. You still need to add the minutes from the main dial to get the actual time in the 2nd timezone. The 12/24 hand IS in the right position - it is tracking a SEPARATE TIMEZONE. It is NOT a 12/24 hour indicator for the MAIN timezone. Some JLC reverso models actually have two entirely separate movements so that each side of the watch has a completely separate timezone, accurate to the second. In the picture Randi uses, the demarcations around the case edge are correct - there are the right number of minute slashes and subsecond dots. I'm not sure, but this watch MAY have bevelled edges on the watch crystal, and/or the crystal may be slightly domed - which could explain some of the distortions in the photo. The comment about some dials using 'Automatic' or 'Automatique' - interesting. Maybe watches for the North American market will have the English spelling, and those for the European market the French. In which case I'd expect the dial would also state 'Chronograph' and 'Chronographe' respectively. I can't help but wonder if Mr. Randi just was a little mistaken in his interpretation of the various sub-dials. I doubt he'd go to the trouble of putting this in the commentary over a few photoshopped details - almost EVERY advertisement will be touched up in some way. |
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#37 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,112
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Hi Antiquehunter.
The refractions of a domed crystal would indeed introduce distortion. However that distortion would equally affect coincident (or closely located) features as described in a previous spoiler tag. You have nice taste in watches by the way. Wish I owned one. ![]() As is common knowledge, there are very few areas of any media, be it film, print, television or otherwise, that don't get "sweetened" with visual or audible editing. Dull sit-coms add laugh tracks... supermodels get shape-shifted... liquor ads "flow & smooth" the ice... Milli Vanilli and Ashlee Simpson lip sync to give the illusion of talent... It's fun to disect these things, especially when they're done badly and obviously. And when they're not so obvious we get a Randi Puzzle to ponder. ![]() Life is good. |
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#38 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,180
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#39 |
Graduate Poster
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#40 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,067
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