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#1 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,745
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Flight 11 Wheel Issue
Ningen, a budding no-planer, thinks he's got proof that Flight 11's wheel and the columns from WTC 1 could not have ended up where they supposedly ended up, which is on Cedar Street, approximately 500 feet from the tower.
He (I assume) goes into great detail but essentially the argument boils down to "I don't believe it." So I thought I'd do a little rough calculation. We'll assume that the wheel hit on the lowest level impacted by Flight 11, which according to Wikipedia is floor 93, which we'll estimate at approximately 1,189 feet above the ground. Therefore, we know that the freefall time to the ground would be about 8.6 seconds. How fast would the wheel and the steel columns have to be going to end up 500 feet away? Well, about 58 (500/8.6) feet per second, which works out to 40 miles per hour. This seems to be a pretty trivial calculation. Yeah, maybe with air resistance it might have to be a little faster, but nothing that seems impossible on its face. Anybody having a hard time believing the impact and explosion could have ejected the steel with the wheel away at roughly 40 miles per hour? Any problems with my logic/calculations? |
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#2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
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Calculations...who needs them if you are a "no-planer".
lol TAM |
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#3 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 26,704
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Hush-a-boom can do that, easy!
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#4 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,542
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I have a slight problem with your calculation. Your assumption that the wheel would end up where it landed seems unfounded! In fact, it's likely the wheel ended up farther away then where it initially hit, making the impact point closer than the final spot. This implies a horizontal velocity below 40mph.
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A witty saying proves nothing. -Voltaire |
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#5 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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The alternative being that some guys with a crane planted this in the street? Or that after the landing gear became lodged in the panel, explosives blew it away from the building? Hmm. Those options seem equally likely to me.
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#6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,745
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#7 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,542
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#8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,745
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#9 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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This diagram shows the landing gear to be much farther away, at Rector & West St. Unless that's a second landing gear? I don't think I've seen a photo or description of another from flight 11.
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#10 |
Based on a true story!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,092
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"JimBenArm is right" Hokulele Mom |
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#11 |
Drunken Shikigami
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,474
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the wheel was installed on the inside of the panel during the power downs the previous weekend, i mean think about it, if you were a businessman working in teh towers, youd have more important things to do that wonder why a 3 foot, 1000 pound aircraft wheel it sticking out of the wall, right?
if you end up going with this id like to place a bet on the quality of your brakes ![]() |
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#12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,745
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Poking around, it looks like the 767 has two sets of four wheels on the back, one set of two on the front for a total of ten wheels. This is just an unspecified wheel. Since St Nick's was destroyed by Tower 2's collapse, this is a photo of evidence that likely wasn't visible only an hour later.
It does speak a lot to the CT mindset that they leap to the conclusion that it was put in place by a truck and a work crew while everybody was looking up at the building. |
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#13 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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#14 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,785
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#15 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,659
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I've read of one account of a woman who was hit and severely injured by a piece of the plane. IIRC she was partially eviscerated when a piece hit her in the lower back. I don't know if she survived or not though.
ETA this might be about her... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...10/MN80965.DTL |
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#16 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
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And 28th Kingdom was blaming us for too much focusing on details...
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#17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,745
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#18 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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That piece landed on the sidewalk/parking lot next to 90 West St. and St. Nick's Church. Many people described it, including firefighter Dean Coutsouros here.
I don't know if anyone was hurt by it, but others were apparently hurt by landing gear parts, as EMT Orlando Martinez describes here (warning: very graphic account). According to NIST NCSTAR 1-7, 18 bystanders/occupants of other buildings were killed by debris and jet fuel from the aircraft impacts. Another 17 people were killed at unknown locations (may have been in or out of the buildings). It's safe to say that many more were injured by the flying debris. |
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