Slappy Slappy @ LCF

pdoherty76 said:

Ready Room, The Intent Behind It

1) Privacy away from "skeptics" is the main rule.

2) All general forum rules apply here in full.

Many times we get in arguments amongst ourselves that have no place in the public view. This is a place for CIVIL discussions on our varying viewpoints to benefit 9/11 truth in the big picture. Differences will be TOLERATED amongst 9/11 truth supporters here.

This is a place for us to encourage each other and get away from JREFers. Keep things as positive as we can here to refresh ourselves.

The password can be given to people who support 9/11 truth ONLY. DO NOT let me find out the password was leaked by you to our antagonists! The password may need to be periodically changed.

This will be run on a pseudo democracy. If somebody posts ANY anti-9/11 truth arguments they will be:

1) Suspended from LC forums for 7 days for first violation.
2) Suspended for 30 days for second violation.
3) Banned for 3rd violation.

This is OUR space.

If somebody is posting anti-9/11 truth antagonism here, please report the post and let us deal with it.

Create a group strategy for dealing with the skeptics here and employ it in the main forums. In other words, they do it and so should we. We have to use the same strategy as our opponents. Create an evidential presentation to respond to criticism in the general forums here, and then go work as a team to expose the fallacy in the skeptic's argument. Show them what we stand on. This is about information.

Please make the most of this and make it work. Unity and teamwork!




Who Can Post At Jref?

[Killtown about plans to post "evidence" at JREF using another member to sign in]




Email I Got In My Inbox, making me nervous...

[Sureshot, 14 years old]

I was thinking of sueing you or one of your websites based on the premise that learning the truth about 911 has caused me severe mental anguish. ACLU lawyer maybe? Do you think that might get some mainstream media coverage? Is this idea viable or should I just stick to telling everyone like I have been doing?
Let me know...sincerely keep it up !
john raymonda jr
bflo ny
phone number available if you wanna talk...

Click to expand...

I own the http://unsungwar.com website but I don't want to be sued, I'm just a fourteen year old kid spreading the truth.

Do you think this could go any farther? I haven't responded to them. unsure.gif




Information Distribution Methods

[GermaniumGeorge]

Aside from handing items to people directly, I also enjoy "planting" items here and there. I particularly enjoy a random DVD drop. Places to put DVD's, Fliers, and any other material:

Inside newspapers
- $.50 and you can stuff a whole box of newspapers with whatever you want

On walls
- a single page and a roll of tape and you can mount a flier anywhere

On tables
- in bars, shopping centers, laundry mats, or anywhere there's a traffic flow and a table top


My newest method is mailing "starter packs" to people, including press and government. These packs will include 30-150 printed pages, materials varying according to who is receiving them, and also a DVD or two for viewing for most. Priority Mail has a flat rate envelope for $4.10, or for the less urgent mailings I can send a kit for ~$2 via media mail. My favorite print outs include the "Patriots Question 911" pdf for general press, Steven E Jones' paper for the eggheads, and I mix NY911truth fliers into the mix.

I was wanting to ask for some feedback about an idea I have, but have not yet implemented due to concerns about its effects. What kind of repercussions would there be with sending troops DVD's? I know they would have to be covertly labeled, with some top movie printed on the DVD rather than its real title. One may even need to copy the main menu from said movie if they're sent in jewel cases, or go the extent of copying or using that same movie's clamshell case.

My concerns, though, are as to what kind of trouble could the recipient land in. Also, would it be better if the DVD's are sent through third party donation sites, or would that just be a wasted step and delay. This wouldn't go very far, so the effort would need to be a brief and large wave of DVD's because soon the cover would be blown and DVD's would be further scrutinized. It would be a one time effort most likely. Please, nobody take this idea and run with it. If it's going to be done a coordinated effort would increase its usefulness 10 fold




Could There Be Human Cloning Involved?, ...a strange theory, I know.

I am kind of hesitant to put this in the open forums, because it sounds so crazy, but I wanted to get an idea if any of you hardcore truthers have given any thought to the possibility that some of the hijackers could have been clones.

We know our government has sophisticated technology that the public doesn't have.

If the U.S. government has perfected human cloning, then I wonder if the whole martial law which they are planning might include a clone army. I know it sounds weird, and I'm not professing this as the truth, just hypothesing for a moment and trying to think outside of the box.

Star Wars anyone?

Some Yoda might shed some light...

"Blind we are, if creation of this clone army, we could not see."




Jref Tips, Refresher Course

As you know the policy of banning JREF members on sight here at the Loose Change forums has been changed. Since I supported that change, I have taken it upon myself to venture on an experiment of experiencing their world first hand to make up my own mind. I joined October 17th and gave most of my attention there for 2 weeks to be fair in my evaluation.

I have learned that I had way overestimated their intentions and standards. I still 100% support their presence here simply based on the 1st Amendment. We are fighting an administration that is trying to remove those rights from us and using 9/11 and the "war on terror" as an excuse. We should not become what we hate.

So my response here is the best way I can balance their rights and give us the upper hand in the dialogue. Also, recognize that no group of people can be stereotyped. I am dealing in generalities here. There are a few good people over there and one or two good researchers.

Keep in mind that the 9/11 truth movement is nowhere near perfect. We can benefit from the challenge presented by JREFers. They can help us fact check and think our positions through more thoroughly. We can improve because of them.

The following is what I have learned.

RULE NUMBER 1 - At ALL times, no matter what, take the high road!!

No matter how frustrated you get, take a deep breath, wait a minute before you reply and remember what it is we are representing. Even if you "lose" a round of discussion or find out you may have a factual error, the way to win every single time is to take the high road about it. Where I have failed in my arguments I have gone out to find out why and inevitably I end up discovering more evidence that supports the position that 9/11 is a conspiracy. Be patient.

Disinformation tactics are used in TV commercials, political campaigns and military strategy world wide. JREFers are very good at it. I am not accusing anybody of being an "agent". Just consider all possibilities.

I have found that the number one strategy of the antagonistic JREFers is the following rule:


QUOTE 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Example: "You believe what you read in the Spotlight? The Publisher, Willis DeCarto, is a well-known right-wing racist. I guess we know your politics -- does your Bible have a swastika on it? That certainly explains why you support this wild-eyed, right-wing conspiracy theory."

Proper response: You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. Your imply guilt by association and attack truth on the basis of the messenger. The Spotlight is a well known Populist media source responsible for releasing facts and stories well before mainstream media will discuss the issues through their veil of silence. Why do you refuse to address the issues by use of such disinformation tactics (rule 5 - sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule)?

http://www.benfrank.net/disinfo/

This appears to be their number two rule:


QUOTE 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism".

Example: "You are such an idiot to think that possible -- or are you such a paranoid conspiracy buff that you think the 'gubment' is cooking your pea-brained skull with microwaves, which is the only justification you might have for dreaming up this drivel." After a drawing an emotional response: "Ohhh... I do seemed to have touched a sensitive nerve. Tsk, tsk. What's the matter? The truth too hot for you to handle? Perhaps you should stop relying on the Psychic Friends Network and see a psychiatrist for some real professional help..."

Proper response: "You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. You attempt to draw me into emotional response without discussion of the issues. If you have something useful to contribute which defeats my argument, let's here it -- preferably without snide and unwarranted personal attacks, if you can manage to avoid sinking so low. Your useless rhetoric serves no purpose here if that is all you can manage. Why do you refuse to address the issues by use of such disinformation tactics (rule 18 - emotionalize, antagonize, and goad opponents)?

http://www.benfrank.net/disinfo/

Familiarize yourself with all 25 rules on that link. But DON'T quote the rule back at them every time. I have made them aware of the rules and if they are overused it just gets old. But do arm yourself and be aware.

The main weakness over there is that they are VERY dependent on one person. They have a leader. I can promise you that I have seen them repeat the same old stuff over and over. I have also seen in the materials they depend on just as much "cherry picking", manipulation, and distortion that they try and accuse us of.

We don't have a leader. We don't need one. If every single one of us researches a different angle and learns everything we can, then we can defeat a system with a primary source of information by all being leaders in our own specialty!

Another weakness in their strategy in my opinion is the hypocrisy. They seem to widely believe if there is a cover up of 9/11, it is due to the USG covering their butts due to incompetency. But they are not doing a single thing to research and expose that cover up. Instead, they have launched an attack on Loose Change and the citizens of America who ask questions. ANY cover up of 9/11 is unacceptable to me. I perceive what most of us are doing is at least trying to get to the truth. I can not say the same for them.

One of their biggest arguments revolves around who is behind 9/11 and what the motive is. My belief is that not the whole government is in on it. I believe a small element of people related to the PNAC within our government have hijacked us. JREFers try to spin the "new Pearl Harbor" quote. Be clear of what the implications of the document Rebuilding America's Defenses are all about.

Here is a post I made over there to make it crystal clear and highly suggest reading the PNAC quotes there beyond the infamous Pearl Harbor quote:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2052384&postcount=78

Proof Rumsfeld tried to pin 9/11 on Saddam within 5 hours of the Pentagon being struck:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2052072&postcount=59

The JREF/LC dialogue is not going to go away. They will persistently pursue their goals and organize themselves to do so. It is 100% up to us how we handle it. Research and information is the cure. When all else fails, see rule number 1.

RULE NUMBER 1 - At ALL times, no matter what, take the high road!!

While they are here, please treat them as guests. Do not behave as they do toward us when we visit there. Stay ahead of the game. If you have specific problems with violations of LC forum rules, just report the post and I will deal with it fairly.

Russell

P.S. below are some threads so that you can see examples of what I am talking about. They also may contain some good information to prepare your arguments.

My initiation thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66233

LCFC criticism thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67538

Explosives thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67462

Criticism of NYPD officer eyewitness thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67275

Rumsfeld Flight 93 "shot down" thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67492

WTC 7 explosion thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67149

Bob & Bri video thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67149

The way they really feel about us thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66868

Another WTC 7 Thread - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67656




What Is Our Goal?, Let's discuss it.

Some of you may think I am a hard ass on you at times. I apologize. I feel it would be best if I explain the goals that Dylan has for the forums and my personal beliefs that dictate how I manage the forums. Pardon me if I sound too intense at times.

This as we know is an information war. We want to win minds and hearts so that eventually we have enough people to get our country, our rights and our Constitution back. Millions sleep totally unaware of the things that are common knowledge to us.

We are battling with a MASSIVE machine. A well planned, calculated group of people with unlimited resources. People with values that are completely opposed to individual rights and liberty. People who have the minds of the masses affixed to a propaganda light box most of the free time they have.

We have a VERY limited opportunity to make our point. Right now we are 40 years ahead of the JFK investigation mainly because of the electronic media of the times including this forum. 83% of Americans now have a doubt about the "official" story of 9/11. The rest of the world is on fire regarding their interest in it.

Loose Change is a phenomenon. It is because there is a craving for the truth to fill the void of intuitive doubt that most people have. Trust me when I say that LC Final Cut is going to have even more power and distribution. This is the key to why the forums are being recreated.

In a few months or so the film is going to hit with a bang. That is going to bring people here. What Dylan is working towards is that when they do, they will find the answers they are looking for in a reasonable place. They may spend two hours watching the film but they could spend 10 hours reading here.

We will be on the front lines of that battle. Why do you think the dickheads are here? To draw us off center and to make us appear ridiculous and ineffective. Imagine that every number on how many times a thread has been read represents a real person. A person who does not join but reads our every word and observes our demeanor - everything we do. Then imagine that they judge 9/11 truth by our behavior.

Picture a woman sitting in Minnesota and finding this site because she is troubled about the changes in her country. Picture her looking for answers. She plugs in and lands here. She sees topics she is curious about and has never found any information on and is excited to learn. She starts to read...........

Imagine an older gentlemen in Arizona who served our country and is retired. He is disgusted with what our administration has done to the freedoms he sacrificed his arm for. He wants to understand this. He is inclined to be logical and rational. He had never considered a conspiracy theory in his life but he knows something is wrong. He starts to read..........

What do these people see? A fight? Name calling? Self righteous behavior? Arguing over petty details? Skeptics that seem rational and kooks that are off the edge? Really look at ourselves through their eyes. What do they see?

Do you really want to win this battle? Do you want to win the war?

If so, then read on. Maybe we don't REALLY get what is directed at us to make us unsuccessful. We play "who's the agent" and ramble about plots against us but what is REALLY happening?

We are very subtly being led to implode on ourselves. We are being divided from within. We are being led down a path to look like crazy ***holes. And guess what? We are walking right down it.

Read this rule of disinfo:


QUOTE 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism".

All 25 rules - http://www.benfrank.net/disinfo/#18

I hate to tell you this, but we ain't gonna spot the agent. Half of the people that antagonize us are only being sheep. They aren't even conscious of what they are doing. The Wizard is behind the curtain. The puppet master is down behind the stage or up above it pulling strings.

SKEPTICS:

1) Have ZERO interest in facts and will NEVER respond to them.
2) Are here ONLY to antagonize.
3) Are currently beating us way too frequently.

WE ARE:

1) Aware of what is going on.
2) Are properly motivated to help the world.
3) Are misguided, disorganized and divided.

RULES FOR WINNING:

1) ALWAYS keep in mind every time we type that we are REALLY talking to the man in Arizona and the woman in Minnesota.

2) Remember our every action and word may be the first impression a stranger may have of 9/11 truth.

3) The ONLY way to defeat a skeptic is to be classy and dignified no matter what. Even if they temporarily defeat an argument, we win.

4) RESEARCH and EVIDENCE is power.

5) UNITY is essential.

6) Patience is a weapon.

7) True commitment goes beyond our own egos.

8) Endurance will ALWAYS prevail.

9) Victory is sweet when combined with humility.

10) In the end, Truth will ALWAYS win.

Dig deeper, fight gracefully and wait for the victory. NOTHING is going to happen fast here. If you want to win it IS going to be painful at times. How important is it to you?

Russell

Click to expand...

pdoherty76 said:

Shhhhht!

Killtown said:

Copy before it disappears:

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3212/endofserenitybn8.jpg

Click to expand...

Tell Us About Yourself, if you don't mind.

[look-up]

Why are you in this movement. What is your motivation?

since we're already sharing... I guess I'll go ahead and tell my story too.

I do not know anyone direcly affected by 9/11, but I had for years been someone who believed that peace was possible in our world... someone who had purposely linked my own fate to that of the world. Ever since going to church as a kid, and hearing people say, "Jesus loves every person in the world" I would ask myself (as a kid) how can someone love every single person in the world? Is it possible? I've dedicated much of my passion towards understanding how we might all find ways of appreciating one another and valuing everyone as being a special part of the world.

I believe that every life that is intentionally taken, harms all of humanity. The world is essentially one entity, with billions of human pieces. Each of us being only one small piece of that entity. While I believe strongly in control over one's emotions and being more "Logical" than "Emotional", I have always allowed myself to be emotionally affected by the pain of others, lest I forget that we all share the same fate. My favorite saying is "The spear in the heart of the other, is the spear in your own." -Spock's World (Diane Duane)

When 9/11 happened, I was so overwhelmed by the human tragedy, that I did not investigate it for myself. I am not someone who shows his pain openly, but when I listened to the news at work, I wept uncontrollably. ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE! HOW COULD ANYONE DO THIS TO ALL THOSE INNOCENT PEOPLE!!!! It still makes me sad.

Soon after the attacks, as the shock began to wear off, I realized that I knew something was wrong before it happened. That summer, I had become depressed for aparently no reason (I don't have depression) and looked at this messed up world as being the cause of my pain. I knew that Bush was a liar from the get go. I knew that he was devious and had probably stolen the 2000 election. I didn't know how far that deceit went. I could feel a dark cloud moving over our land, but I couldn't identify it.

Only a month or so before the attacks, I began playing flight simulator again, which I hadn't done for at least a year before-hand. I would start it up, grab a small plane, helicopter, or a UFO and try to land it on buildings... what building did I choose most? You got it, the WTC towers... I believe the south tower is the one with no antenae, so I'd try to land on it, but would almost always fail and crash into it. It seemed insignificant at the time, but since then I've decided I might have known something on a subconcious level.

Anyone here believe that there is a force that humans can feel? Early this spring... I felt an even stronger sensation that something was wrong, and then I found loose change. I have no doubt that it was fate. I am supposed to be here in this movement, to hopefully benefit man-kind and stop evil from dominating our world. And yes, I am willing to give my life for this cause. If we cower in fear, then our children will be left with no freedom. But I need to stress that any resistance needs to be peaceful and non-violent.

I'd like to see a skeptic tell me I don't care about the lives lost, just because they were not my relatives. rolleyes.gif The way I see it, I lost 3,000 brothers and sisters on that horrible day. 650,000+ since then. It's amazing any of us can sleep at night. sad.gif




[Jarroyo]

This feels like a group meeting or something, but I'll say something too.

I'm 18 years old and I live in Puerto Rico, when 9/11 happened I was 13 years old. It was pretty shocking to me, I was in history class and I didn't even knew what the Twin Towers were. When they explained what happened, I was pretty shocked, I think the school even sent us all home. I was horrified to my very core, I couldn't understand why people would such a thing, it gave me chills just to tell what happened. The worst was, that all TV channels were playing the event over and over and over and over again. All I could see were hundreds of people dying over and over again, I couldn't understand why they would play it over and over again. It still horrifies me seeing the videos. I always believed the Al Qaeda guiltiness. As I got older I started questioning it. I didn't support the USA wars nor the administration. But I always left as granted what happened on 9/11. Until a professor on college, showedus Loose Change on the Communications class, as a video that has been censored and frown upon by the government.

I didn't want to say this, but since I'm on the clean area of the forum, then I see no problem. I'm a Jehovah's Witness, so most of the time I won't be here, because I dedicate it to preaching. I have strong religious beliefs, and I don't affiliate myself in a political stance. I'm neutral when it comes to politics. And, my objective is to find out the truth, and Loose Change has made a great achievement in that area. I can't say I don't believe in the NWO, mostly that I don't care about it, because of my religious stance. But, even though we JWs don't take part in politics, we do want to be aware of what is happening, since it affects all of us. And my purpose is to have knowledge of what happened on 911. I know something is awfully wrong with the official story and with the US government, and as a way to acquire knowledge of the things that affect my life, I come to this forum. I hope you don't exclude me for being a JW and I hope I can help this truth seeking movement in the fairest and most honest way possible.

And, I apologize if I misspell words sometimes, my main laguage is Spanish. I also speak some Italian.

Sincerely,

Jarroyo




[Esopxe]

This is what I have posted on the top of the home page of my blog.

I have been researching the subjects that you will find on this blog for many years now. Through this research I have found that fact is definitely stranger and more disturbing that fiction. The purpose for doing this blog is to educate people about truths. What you will find here isn't something that you will likely find on your tv or in your newspapers. This is information that you are not supposed to know about. This is information that the powers that be don't want you to know about. Frederick Douglass once said,“Knowledge makes a man unfit to be a slave.” Everyone has a choice to have the knowledge that keeps them free. Some actually are more comfortable being told what to do, how to think, and what to believe. It's a lot easier that way. Then there are some that won't just idly sit and watch things go to ruin. They will stand up for themselves and others who aren't strong enough to. They will have the courage to question authority when others are too afraid. They will demand truth and justice and will not give up until these things are accomplished. So where do you stand?

Here is a little handful of other stuff about me.
I'm 31 and live about 2 hours North of Seattle. Yo Russell! Maybe I can find you some ladies up here. laugh.gif I'm not a fan of orginized religion because I believe that it is used to control people. I do believe in god though. I downhill mountain bike, train in mma, work from home, play guitar, do bodyguard work during the holidays, and enjoy beer.

How's that? smile.gif




[Hazel]

21 years old..Living on the west coast. I have a family with a Middle Eastern background, which gives me an interesting perspective on things. I have always been questioning of the government since I can remember. I was an X-files fan as a young girl. I even wanted to work for the FBI or the CIA at one point. (But, I prefer to be a dissenting citizen instead of working for the machine.) I staged many role-playing conspiracy scenarios with friends. The Truth is Out There! Haha. But in all seriousness...

I was also an organizer against the Iraq War as a senior in High School. I wrote many letters to the editor indicating what would happen if we went to war (all my points came true, I'd like to add) which got published in the local newspaper. I love journalism and research. I feel a need to find out what happened on 9/11 due to a suicide of a friend of mine on 9/11/03. This fuels my fire.




[Jackchit]

I am 36 years old and a DJ (short hours lots of money) and writer from Yorkshire England. I first became aware of the cover up of 911 when I became embroiled in a legal wrangle with the most famous celebrity couple here in the uk and caught a bad deal with the media over it, since then my website has gone mainstream http://www.beckhamcoverup.com and now has 30,000 visitors a day.
This led me to question the media's bias and researching this brought me inadvertantly to the loose change film and website in December last year.

For the last 3 months I have been researching a piece that I am currently writing for the Mail on Sunday entitled "911..The media warnings that point to a cover up".

I am also writing a book with the working title "bent cops like beckham"




[Russel Pickering]

I'll be more serious.

Here is the bio from my business website.

You can see my work too.

http://www.russellpickering.net/about.htm

Russell




[Antipodean]

I am an ex pat Londoner living in the antipodes, I had a political awakening a few years ago after somebody gave me a copy of the following document to read.
(which I have since found on the net, & discovered who assembled it)

http://www.rense.com/politics4/opal.htm

"Isn't life just dandy? I personally wrote the intro to that file,
typed the thing onto a computer and uploaded it to the internet around
15 years ago.

I even named it "The Opal File" because it read like a Aust-NZ version
of the famous "Gemstone File" and since the opal is considered an
Aussie gemstone, I gave it the name that still accompanies it.

I did not write the file though, I got it from a renegade intelligence
agent who didn't know I copied the file.

Duncan"

Duncan M. Roads, Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia.
Tel: 07 5442 9280; Fax: 07 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the
means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

I am also against globalisation, and the privatisation of state funded public utilities.
Resulting in having a few letters published in national newspapers.

Antipodean




[Alexvegas]

Wow jackchit, didnt know that was you. I read your site a while back - really weird situation youve ended up in.

I'm 22 from the UK, I work in the music industry (i work for a music marketing company and make music myself).

I have no direct links to 9/11 or anything like that. I'm just concerned for the future of our world.

I'm on myspace http://www.myspace.com/ALXuk

My uncle is a veteran BBC presenter - I hope to get him interested in the cause - my parents just asked me to burn copies of loose change and terrorstorm to give to thier friends, so I hope my dad will talk to my uncle about it, and he might be tempted to do something with the BBC on it.




[IVXX]

Well let's see. My real name is TJ. Yes those are intitals but I've been called TJ since birth by friends and family. Those interested can PM me for the story behind it. I'm 35 years old. I have a wonderful woman in my life. She's a little younger but wise beyond those years. I spent the first 11 years of life in Astoria, Queens NY before my parents moved out to Farmingville which is in Suffolk County Long Island. June of this year I moved to Milwaukee WI to be closer to my bro and his band that I absolutely love. Anyone interested in great music PM me. The person I though I could trust as a roommate totally f****d me however and in September I was forced back to Long Island. However due to my bro's guitarist I won't be here long. He's buying a house and will have space for me to rent and at a deal. So by February next year it's back to WI.

Where am I in the movement. Well do to the confidence and trust of Dylan, Russell, and Quest I find myself deeper than I thought I'd be. I did wake up who I could and pass out dvds, flyers etc. I planned on showing up at events and everything but never did I think I'd be this involved. I thank Dylan, Russell, and Quest for the chance.

What 9/11 means to me. I lived the first 11 years of my life like I said I lived in Astoria, Queens. It didn't take much to have the Twin Towers in my sight and they were almost on a daily basis. They were my favortie buildings in the skyline. I knew they were the biggest buildings in NY and they represented power to me even though it was through a childs eyes. I had no idea at time the true power they represented.

9/11 they day. My feelings were probably like everyone elses. Shocked, Angered, Numb. I couldn't believe what had just happened. I left work early. As events played out I called my uncle who was suppose to be in the city that day to make sure he was alright, Called my dad to see if he heard and I guess since he was nowhere near the attacks just to hear he was alright. I called my mom at hear job and upon hearing her voice decided to go see her. To help her calm down is why I said I went, I guess looking back I needed that first hug as much as she did. Later on that evening we heard my cousin who works for Port Authority and was in the North tower when it got hit, got out safely. We learned that night a friend of the family was missing. Christopher Charles Amoroso was a NY Port Authority Officer, he was 29 with a wife and child. He died in the North tower that day. The last known photo of Chris alive shows him helping a woman onto a stretcher, However he is already turned around and taking his first steps back to the North tower to help more people.

Certain things didn't fit for me that day. Where were our air defenses?? Why did Bush stay in that school?? How could this happen?? However for reasons unknown to myself I didn't pursue these question. maybe I didn't want to go where they would lead. The beginning of this summer is when films such as LC and Alex Jones films were shown to me. Somethings I found very radical and needed to do more of my own research but one thing was for sure. This films brought questions back to the surface. Questions that were never answered. They will no longer remain unanswered.




[Speaker City]

My name's Paul. I'm 23. I live in southern california. I install audio/video and low-voltage systems. I like to go to concerts, play ps2, skate, watch movies, smoke weed, and shoot guns.

I enlisted in the Air Force in Nov. 2001 as a direct result of 9/11. I was deployed to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. I dont have any cool war stories. Most of my enlistment was spent in Fairbanks Alaska. I got out in Dec. 2003 after serving 3 months in jail for marijuana possession.

I was raised catholic, but became an atheist when I was 15. Listening to Bad Religion and Rage Against the Machine got me thinking about how the world really is.

I remember seeing the trailer to Loose Change 1 about a year ago. It was late at nite. i remember Marrilyn Manson's New ◊◊◊◊ playing in the background. I had seen a lot of anti-establishment documentaries like Outfoxed, Unprecedented, Uncovered, and of course Farenheit 9/11. But I remember thinking "whoa! sayin wal-mart is evil is one thing, saying a plane never hit the pentagon is another." I went to bed and never thought of it again.

Then one day I'm cruisin the myspace and I come across this dudes profile. He has all this anti-nwo stuff (which i had no f***ing clue about) and a list of youtube and google videos. One was about police using video cameras at protests. I messaged him and told him his profile was badass. He replied and told me to check out Loose Change. That would be the beginning of weeks of late nites on the internet cruising infowars and watching 9/11 docs on google video.

I'm glad I got involved in this movement. Now, not only do I know the government is lieing about 9/11, but I've learned about the Real ID Act, the New World Order, RFIDs, surveilance society, JFK, skull and bones, fluoride in tapwater, and other stuff you dont learn about in high school history.

I cruise the LC forums everyday, but I rarely have anything worth posting. I believe that flight 93 was shot down, a boeing 757 did not hit the pentagon, and controlled demolition brought down WTC 1, 2 and 7.

Im lucky to have friends that believe me about 9/11 and are down for the cause. I've given copies of Loose Change to all my coworkers. Only one of them is a skeptic because he has "a friend who lives in DC who saw a plane". The owner of the company I work for is a firefighter. I threw a copy of LC in his truck last week. I asked him about it today and he said he's been too busy to watch it, but he will when he goes to his vacation home in the mountains. I'm really looking forward to having a conversation about it with him.

if you wanna know more about me, or wanna watch a really good video of Greg Graffin performing cease on piano, check out my myspace at:
www.myspace.com/pauleefrompedro

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pdoherty76 said:

Lets Use Their Manual Against Them

jackchit
Posted: Nov 22 2006, 12:06 AM

I have made a post in the skeptic area challenging them to come up with an argument that cannot be found anywhere else....we should use their "rules" against them and see them off.
whenever they disagree, call them "nuts" and accuse them of being members of a cult, lets see the dicks off once and for all...

IVXX
Posted: Nov 22 2006, 09:30 AM

Can't say I support that Jack. Do what you wil but watch how far you take it.

pdoherty76
Posted: Nov 22 2006, 11:46 AM

QUOTE (IVXX @ Nov 22 2006, 09:30 AM)
Can't say I support that Jack. Do what you wil but watch how far you take it.

I know why you say that but this turning the other cheek stuff is hard to swallow. Why should they get a good reception from us when we are treated like ◊◊◊◊ at JREF.


I dont abuse them anymore but I aint gonna be friends with the slimy gits, thats for sure

IVXX
Posted: Nov 22 2006, 11:53 AM

Believe me when I tell you I'm working on this.

look-up
Posted: Nov 27 2006, 10:04 PM

Turning the cheek may not work in every single person-to-person situation, because sometimes your other cheek will just get smacked, but it IS the best policy as far as winning the larger battle.

Mike Chambers
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 03:45 AM
TNR Live Monday Night Thru Friday Night at 12am Central Time

They're already running away. Keep presenting facts. They do not like facts. They seem only willing to quote probabilities and other flimsy arguments in their attempt to refute what we say. Keep pouring the truth on them and like the Wicked Witch of the West they will melt away.

Hazel
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 04:19 AM

Since I'm sure a good majority of them do this for ***** & giggles and have no life, to resort to their tactics would only make them even more excited. So, I say, just give 'em the cold shoulder. By taking a reaction away from them, they will eventually get bored.

IVXX
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 04:40 AM

Good call. wink.gif

Is it just me or does it seem like Geedubya waits for Mike to leave before replying to him?? OH well if it makes him feel like king of the sandbox for a while.

look-up
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 03:21 PM

it takes two to have a fight. if one refuses, then the other will not have his way.

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pdoherty76 said:

How They Did It, Personal 911 Hypothesis

antipodean
Posted: Nov 22 2006, 04:30 AM

Thought it could be handy to compare our own personal theories on how they did it. & may be cherry pick & fine tune them, so as to converge to the most plausible 911 scenario. So here goes.

WTC buildings definatly collapsed through CD, could have been wired as long ago as 1993, the first failed bombing being an excuse because of the need, to pull a building in case of a terrorist attack, before it teeters.

The 3 hit targets / buildings were hit by airborn missiles or drones masquerading as flights 11,175 & 77. An airborn object masquerading as flight 93 was destroyed.

The secret behind unravelling 9/11 lies in those aboard the planes, which is why I transferred some of the "passenger" threads, from the old forum.

Flights 11 & 175 were going to the same long haul destination within 15mins., so why didn't they code share given the relatively low passenger count ?.

Being replaced by drones there was no need for flights 11 & 175 to even take off.
Flights 77 & 93 also don't even take off, & are masqueraded by missiles.

Passengers of flights 77 & 93 check in at both their respective airports, & are transferred to another flight going to Boston ( or Cleveland).
On arrival they are then transferred to the now smaller plane holding flights 11 & 175's passengers. The chaos of the WTC attacks & terrorist alerts etc. disguise's what's really happening.

The smaller plane now carrying possibly less than 50 passengers head's due eastwards, and is blown/up sunk into the Atlantic (maybe in close proximity to a previous crash) .

One plausible theory is that some of the passengers aboard the planes, were potential whistle blowers involved in planning 911, & hoodwinked into thinking they were on a work related trip.

Another telling point are the extensive lists of the 4 crews, with no grieving work colleagues.
These crew lists could easily be falsified, because airline crews are often deliberately rostered to work with different staff on each flight, so as to prevent cliques forming, & prevent any staff politics adversly affecting paying passengers.

Obviously the approx 9am time frame, was chosen to give the operation that AL Quaeda, maximise the casualties MO.

At the same time the perps wanted to keep the numbers down for obvious reasons. If it hadn't of been for the fireman bravely entering the towers, rescuing survivors & perhaps slowing down the evacuation, the death toll may have been a lot less.



look-up
Posted: Nov 25 2006, 02:00 PM

QUOTE WTC buildings definatly collapsed through CD, could have been wired as long ago as 1993, the first failed bombing being an excuse because of the need, to pull a building in case of a terrorist attack, before it teeters.

I think it was only wired in the months prior to 9/11. I'm basing this on the stories of evacuations and movement of bomb sniffing dogs etc... dust in the building for weeks. Besides, I strongly believe someone in the Bush admin was involved, and wiring back in 93 would mean that they would have a reason to say, "See I couldn't have done THAT"


QUOTE The 3 hit targets / buildings were hit by airborn missiles or drones masquerading as flights 11,175 & 77. An airborn object masquerading as flight 93 was destroyed.

I recommend that we state clearly that both towers were hit by planes, whether remotely controlled or not. And pentagon may not have been hit by a plane. Point to lack of video evidence. If they want to prove it was a plane, show me the money!


QUOTE The secret behind unravelling 9/11 lies in those aboard the planes, which is why I transferred some of the "passenger" threads, from the old forum.

I believe the debate over the hijackers leads nowhere in general conversation. There are "documents" which supposedly show the names of hijackers on the manifests, and the victims lists do not. It's too debatable in my opinion. If they were not on the planes, then they may not exist (except as stolen identities) and if they were on the planes, then maybe they did not know the whole plan of that day.


QUOTE Flights 11 & 175 were going to the same long haul destination within 15mins., so why didn't they code share given the relatively low passenger count ?.

I haven't heard this before... do you mean that they should have moved passengers from the one flight to the other to save money? That might make sense. Is that standard proceedure. Weren't they different airlines?


QUOTE Being replaced by drones there was no need for flights 11 & 175 to even take off.
Flights 77 & 93 also don't even take off, & are masqueraded by missiles.

I believe that 93 was a real flight that was shot down over pennsilvania and made to look as if it crashed into a small crater. I don't believe that was a missile. Flight 77 on the otherhand, perhaps.


QUOTE Passengers of flights 77 & 93 check in at both their respective airports, & are transferred to another flight going to Boston ( or Cleveland).
On arrival they are then transferred to the now smaller plane holding flights 11 & 175's passengers. The chaos of the WTC attacks & terrorist alerts etc. disguise's what's really happening.

Very possible. Holy crap. I never thought of this before but what if flight 93 contained all of the passengers from all four flights, and was shot-down over shanskville for cleanup purposes? This is contrary to my previous statements about 93 being an example of the plan going awry.


QUOTE The smaller plane now carrying possibly less than 50 passengers head's due eastwards, and is blown/up sunk into the Atlantic (maybe in close proximity to a previous crash) .

See above comments.


QUOTE One plausible theory is that some of the passengers aboard the planes, were potential whistle blowers involved in planning 911, & hoodwinked into thinking they were on a work related trip.

Another telling point are the extensive lists of the 4 crews, with no grieving work colleagues.
These crew lists could easily be falsified, because airline crews are often deliberately rostered to work with different staff on each flight, so as to prevent cliques forming, & prevent any staff politics adversly affecting paying passengers.

Hard to tell. What do we know about some of the names?


QUOTE Obviously the approx 9am time frame, was chosen to give the operation that AL Quaeda, maximise the casualties MO.

Yes. This was done to make it seem more like a terrorist attack.


QUOTE At the same time the perps wanted to keep the numbers down for obvious reasons. If it hadn't of been for the fireman bravely entering the towers, rescuing survivors & perhaps slowing down the evacuation, the death toll may have been a lot less.

Disagree. If the firefighters hadn't been there I think it would have been a lot worse. These are the true heros of that day. EDIT: I think it's really important for us to find out who gave the order for the occupants to return to their offices... that seems to be one of the strange occurances of that morning.



antipodean
Posted: Nov 26 2006, 12:29 AM

"do you mean that they should have moved passengers from the one flight to the other to save money? That might make sense. Is that standard proceedure. Weren't they different airlines?"

I've offen been transferred to a different airline at 'check in, to the one I was originally booked with. I thought in the States this would be standard practice, seeing as the tax payer step's in to save most airlines there from bankruptcy. It make's sense to pool resources.

"what if flight 93 contained all of the passengers from all four flights, and was shot-down over shanskville for cleanup purposes?"

Loosechange mention's how the seating capacity on flight 93, is equal to the number of people aboard all the 911 flights.
Can't see how flight 93 was shot down over Shanksville there just isn't the evidence.
(In the passengers forum I've transferred a thread from the old forum, detailing the lists of names of those aboard the 911 flights)

"I think it's really important for us to find out who gave the order for the occupants to return to their offices... that seems to be one of the strange occurances of that morning."

I never knew that. The fireman were the real heroes that day. I hope the surviving ones get their hands on the arsehole who ordered the twin towers to collapse, on top of 350 of their mates.



look-up
Posted: Nov 27 2006, 03:07 PM

i'm not speaking of the person who gave the order to initiate the final collapse of the buildings (probably not a firefighter) but the person in the first building who announced it was safe for people to return to their offices, thus trapping them. I'd like to point out that this person was probably acting on the information from the chief who said he could "knock down the isolated pockets of fire". This person would have had no reason to think the towers would fall. Almost no one had any idea they would fall.




Reggie_perrin
Posted: Nov 27 2006, 09:52 PM

It's hard to say with any kind of certainty how they pulled it off, and the intricacies of the attack, but what we do know is theres no way it was carried out by Bin Laden and co, it was way to sophisticated and beyond there capabilities, and Bin Lden would have had to have someone on the inside surpressing standard operating procedure air defences, he would also have needed the code words to threated air force one, which recieved a detailed and precise warning sent in a codeword, and theres no way Bin Laden had gotton hold of these codewords from his cave in afgahnistan and if he had done then he'd have used them and not just threatened.

My personal theory is it was going to be a traditional hijacking where the hijackers return to the airport and make demands for the release of prisnoners possibly the blind Shekih. but the real september criminals steered there planes into there targets by remote control access, so you've actually got real hijackers on board but once they'd taken the cockpit the controls were then over ridden by someone with the technology to do so, possibly criminal elements of the CIA.



look-up
Posted: Nov 27 2006, 10:02 PM

Reggie, what you propose is certainly possible, and maybe even plausible, but if there were real hijackers onboard the planes, then wouldn't bin-laden know about it? Wouldn't he have said, "I planned the hijackings, but I did not instruct the pilots to hit targets."

Or are you saying that the hijackers were indeed patsies and assets of one agency or another, rather than being islamic fundamentalists? That would seem more plausible -- that they truly believed they were involved in a drill, but then that opens the questions of "How did they not know it was real?"



Reggie_perrin
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 12:44 AM

They have to be patsies, low level CIA mules who do pretty much anything they're told to do, these guys were clearly not devout muslims, they indulged in all manor of seedy activities IE ordering prostitutes going to strip bars having private lap dances, Drug users heavy drinkers ETC, one could argue they were just trying to "blend in" but i doubt they'd go as far as this just to blend, infact the sort of things they were into would more likly get you arrested which would possibly lead to the uncovering of the plot or compramising it, they had to be patsies, maybe even taking part in what they thought was just a drill ?, is this why not allowed to hear whats on the black boxes which were reportedly found at the WTC site ? the boxes they now deny even having, even though two firemen helped to locate them and said they'd found them.

But then you have to weigh up the fact that some of them were reported to be alive, and you've got Mohammed Atta's Dad saying he spoke to his son on the 12th sept and hasn't spoke to him since.

It's a mystery wrapped inside and enigma.



antipodean
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 07:38 AM

We must have got our wires crossed.

"I think it's really important for us to find out who gave the order for the occupants to return to their offices... that seems to be one of the strange occurances of that morning."
I never meant to say that this would have been the same such person, who gave the order to collapse the towers.

Some dick on the WTC7 forum has inadvertantly supplied a motive as to why, the towers were collapsed only an hour or so after impact. The last thing the perps would have wanted would be eye witness survivors from the upper floors at & above the impact zones.



look-up
Posted: Nov 28 2006, 03:18 PM

yes, and giving the world an hour to turn on their TVs and watch in horror as they fell... that was surely part of their reasoning regarding the timing of the collapse.

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