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Old 21st February 2007, 01:44 AM   #1
robinson
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Lost a fingertip? Try some pig bladder powder!

You just can't make stuff like this up. Seems that ultimate woo scam, pig bladder powder they been a selling for a while now, really does work.

I'm not gonna put in a link, cause it will change, and its all over the net right now anyhow. You can regrow a fingertip with it. Maybe more than that. Test are being done.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&n...er&btnG=Search

The science behind it seems sound, but man, who would have ever thought. Next thing you know, they is gonna be using leeches on us. Or maggots. Disgusting. Pig powder.

Pig bladder powder. The woos are taking over I tell you.
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Old 21st February 2007, 07:13 AM   #2
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Now Robinson I thought you accepted the scientific use of leeches for all these conditions


- cardiovascular diseases, including essential hypertension and ischemia disease, phlebogene diseases of the lower extremities;
- chronic bronchitis, pneumonia, bronchial asthma;
- gastrointestinal tract diseases (hepatitis, cholecystitis, pancreatitis, stomach ulcer);
- ENT diseases;
- paradontosis and other teeth diseases;
- urological diseases;
- male sterility;
- skin diseases (neurodermatitis, psoriasis, eczema, herpes);
- gynaecological disorders (commissural processes in the small pelvis, female sterility, chronic adnexitis, parametritis, endometriosis, fibromastopathy);
- systemic diseases (rheumatic arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, scleroderma);
- osteochondrosis and radiculitis;
- eyes diseases, including glaucoma;
- infantile cerebral paralysis (ICP) and other diseases.

Link
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Old 21st February 2007, 07:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
None of that proves the powder was responsible. But those outcomes have helped inspire an effort to try the powder this summer at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, on soldiers who have far more disabling finger loss because of burns.
Yes this is good science. They are not claiming it works just that it could do with investigating.

PT, I think he was joking with the leaches and the maggots, those are used in modern medicine for there ability to stop clotting and clean wounds respectively.
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Old 21st February 2007, 08:01 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Orangutan View Post
Yes this is good science. They are not claiming it works just that it could do with investigating.

PT, I think he was joking with the leaches and the maggots, those are used in modern medicine for there ability to stop clotting and clean wounds respectively.
Not if you listen to him. Leaches are good for what ails you from what he has said. It was a real innovation to have them used to treat male infertiliy.
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Old 21st February 2007, 08:05 AM   #5
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Why is pig bladder powder woo?

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Old 21st February 2007, 08:16 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
Why is pig bladder powder woo?

Linda
Pig bladder powder is a little misleading, it's not like they dry a pig bladder and use a mortar and pestle on it. It's an extract though. Mostly collagen and some other chemicals that encourage cell growth. There are no "Pig Cells" in it just stuff that was once in pig cells. So the theory is that you provide a chemical signal that encourages growth rather than scaring and a platform on which the cells can grow. (Like that mouse/ear avatar). There's a lot of information in the article. Here's one from CNN that shouldn't change.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/0....ap/index.html
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Old 21st February 2007, 08:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Orangutan View Post
Pig bladder powder is a little misleading, it's not like they dry a pig bladder and use a mortar and pestle on it. It's an extract though. Mostly collagen and some other chemicals that encourage cell growth. There are no "Pig Cells" in it just stuff that was once in pig cells. So the theory is that you provide a chemical signal that encourages growth rather than scaring and a platform on which the cells can grow. (Like that mouse/ear avatar). There's a lot of information in the article. Here's one from CNN that shouldn't change.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/0....ap/index.html
Yeah, it doesn't seem very woo to me. I wondered why Robinson was calling it woo.

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Old 21st February 2007, 09:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
Yeah, it doesn't seem very woo to me. I wondered why Robinson was calling it woo.

Linda
I think he was not - he was (I think) pointing out that he had thought it was woo - sort of like people had thought leeches were - and now we know they have legitimate use.
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Old 21st February 2007, 10:20 AM   #9
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Actual website for the product mentioned. http://www.acell.com

A website that probably won't change, (as in vanish).



Yes, fuelair is correct. What was once considered woo, can become science.

http://www.quackometer.net
Quote:
Web site titled 'ACell Inc. - Better Healing Through Regenerative Medicine'

The black duck says...

The quacking noise is deafening. This web site is riddled with loosely defined terms and possibly pseudoscientific language with a quite a bit of alternative medicine flim flam.

It is full of scientific jargon that is out of place and probably doesn't know the meaning of any of the terms. It is heavily using scientific jargon and may be doing this to bamboozle.

It shows no sceptical awareness and so should be treated with a suspicious mind.


The pig bladder powder is far from new, however.


I love the way it is described in this 1995 patent.

Quote:
Abstract
A tissue graft composition comprising bladder submucosal tissue delaminated from abluminal muscle layers and at least the luminal portion of the tunica mucosa of a segment of vertebrate urinary bladder is described. The graft composition can be implanted to replace or support damaged or diseased tissues.

A composition comprising urinary bladder submucosa delaminated from both the abluminal muscle layers and at least the luminal portion of the tunica mucosa of a segment of a urinary bladder of a warm blooded vertebrate.
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5554389

Sounds a lot better than powdered pig bladder.

Last edited by robinson; 21st February 2007 at 10:21 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 21st February 2007, 11:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I think he was not - he was (I think) pointing out that he had thought it was woo - sort of like people had thought leeches were - and now we know they have legitimate use.
We're not surprised by the idea that various substances, currently in use by traditional medicine, may actually have useful effects, are we? (i.e. not woo) It's even possible that the effects may match up (by accident ) with one or more of the claims?

Linda
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Old 21st February 2007, 02:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
Yeah, it doesn't seem very woo to me. I wondered why Robinson was calling it woo.

Linda
So that his support for woo can be substantiated.
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Old 21st February 2007, 09:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by robinson View Post
You just can't make stuff like this up. Seems that ultimate woo scam, pig bladder powder they been a selling for a while now, really does work.

I'm not gonna put in a link, cause it will change, and its all over the net right now anyhow. You can regrow a fingertip with it. Maybe more than that. Test are being done.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&n...er&btnG=Search

The science behind it seems sound, but man, who would have ever thought. Next thing you know, they is gonna be using leeches on us. Or maggots. Disgusting. Pig powder.

Pig bladder powder. The woos are taking over I tell you.
Do I have to dig up my thread on leeches...
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Old 22nd February 2007, 12:43 AM   #13
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You got a leech thread??? Keep it the fook away from me man.
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Old 22nd February 2007, 06:54 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Solus View Post
Do I have to dig up my thread on leeches...
Please, I never got answers about how leaches are supposted to scientificaly treat such things and male infertility and gastrointestional issues.
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Old 22nd February 2007, 07:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by robinson View Post
What was once considered woo, can become science.
When was using extracts from pig bladders to encourage cell growth ever considered woo?
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Old 6th March 2007, 05:22 PM   #16
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This is a perfect example of the kind of irresponsible woo-style medicine that really pisses me off, because it’s being conducted by mainstream researchers who should know better.

...

The reporter, for all his poor writing skills, is right about one thing: “None of this proves the powder was responsible.” Exactly. Without performing a controlled, blinded trial, they can’t prove anything about the efficacy of their concoction. They may as well be hawking snake oil, and until they run a decent clinical study that controls for bias, they’ll get every bit as much contempt from me as a Reiki practitioner or crystal healer.
http://tobascodagama.com/?p=38
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Old 6th March 2007, 05:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
When was using extracts from pig bladders to encourage cell growth ever considered woo?
I thought you were supposed to use pig's bladders to prevent earthquakes...
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Old 6th March 2007, 10:55 PM   #18
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What about the Bresse Chicken, Cooked in a Pig's Bladder, with Albufera Sauce and Stewed Vegetables?
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Old 7th March 2007, 12:54 PM   #19
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I lost the tip of my left ring finger in a tragic "eating dry cereal while looking out the window and the window comes down on your finger" accident when I was about two years old. Now I can get it back? Woo-hoo!!!!!
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Old 9th August 2007, 07:52 AM   #20
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So, how is that working out?
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Old 9th August 2007, 08:08 AM   #21
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Sounds a little woo. Is no one suspicious that the guy who "grew back a finger" is the brother of the guy selling the magic powder?
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Old 9th August 2007, 08:18 AM   #22
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Well, you might think so, but it seemed to go down as smooth as pork chops here. Most strange.


Originally Posted by robinson View Post
Quote:
This is a perfect example of the kind of irresponsible woo-style medicine that really pisses me off, because it’s being conducted by mainstream researchers who should know better.
...

The reporter, for all his poor writing skills, is right about one thing: “None of this proves the powder was responsible.” Exactly. Without performing a controlled, blinded trial, they can’t prove anything about the efficacy of their concoction. They may as well be hawking snake oil, and until they run a decent clinical study that controls for bias, they’ll get every bit as much contempt from me as a Reiki practitioner or crystal healer.
http://tobascodagama.com/?p=38

Last edited by robinson; 9th August 2007 at 08:20 AM. Reason: link
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Old 6th April 2008, 07:45 PM   #23
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Another topic about this has popped up. Despite the amount of time gone by, no word on Dr. Steven Wolf, at the Army Institute of Surgical Research, who was supposed to be doing trials on this over a year ago.

Yet the same "News story" has re appeared as if it just happened again.
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Old 7th April 2008, 06:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by wolfgirl View Post
I lost the tip of my left ring finger in a tragic "eating dry cereal while looking out the window and the window comes down on your finger" accident when I was about two years old. Now I can get it back? Woo-hoo!!!!!
I think its accepted that higher primates can grow back fingertips, if the last joint is still in place. I don't know if the lost fingernail reappears in the regenerated tip or not (perhaps it does). Axolotls can famously grow back an entire limb, but we can only regenerate the bit after the final joint.
I think at some point somebody's supposed to have done a gruesome experiment with apes to prove it (ewww). The suggestion at the time was that if you lost a fingertip, and didn't have the wound sewn up, it'd probably completely regenerate, but you might have to be walking about for eight months with a bag of sterile saline strapped to your damaged fingy.

The use of pig collagen as a useful growth substrate for tissue repair is well known. I once badly gashed open my thumb trying to open an old-style Spam tin whose key was missing, and thanks to the wonderful curative powers of the Spam jelly that went into the wound, the thing healed up almost immediately, with no scarring. Was well impressed.
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Old 7th April 2008, 07:19 AM   #25
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Yum!

(Spam-jelly rules!)
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Old 7th April 2008, 07:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by wolfgirl View Post
I lost the tip of my left ring finger in a tragic "eating dry cereal while looking out the window and the window comes down on your finger" accident when I was about two years old. Now I can get it back? Woo-hoo!!!!!
You should try Torgo's Executive Powder!

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Old 16th April 2008, 05:21 PM   #27
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We use skin from dead people everyday in the operating room to fix everything from abdominal hernias to repair defects in connective tissue to make peener's bigger.

-Dr. Imago
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Old 16th April 2008, 05:41 PM   #28
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In China, they use skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe.

What does "skin from dead people" have to do with Pig Bladder powder?

Damn. Doing a search for skin from dead people leads to all kinds of weird stuff.

Quote:
Burn victims lie waiting in hospitals as nurses scour the country for skin to cover their wounds, even though skin is in plentiful supply for plastic surgeons, an Orange County Register investigation found.

The skin they need to save their lives is being used instead for procedures that could wait: supporting bladders, erasing laugh lines and enlarging penises.

Donated bodies and tissue such as bones and veins are used in ways most people would never imagine, and profits are made with little oversight.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...425/837/463934

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Old 16th April 2008, 06:19 PM   #29
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I could use a new fingertip, since I lost one by sticking it in a power planer over 6 years ago...
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Old 16th April 2008, 07:53 PM   #30
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Sorry to hear that. Would you be willing to experiment with the PBP? I would really like to know if can help any tissue regrow, not just fingertips, which obviously would be a huge medical discovery.

According to Medical people, even a little bit of finger regrowth would be a huge benefit to anyone missing some. If this bladder powder does provide a matrix for new cell growth, it would be very beneficial in all kinds of injuries.

The website states-

Quote:
The ACell Vet™ product is a naturally occurring biologic scaffold that fundamentally alters the wound healing response by providing a favorable environment for cell growth at the site of damaged, weakened or missing tissue. Now even in the most difficult cases, repairing damaged or lost tissue can be accomplished easily and with predictable results.
http://www.acell.com/vet.php

That sounds huge to me. Is it woo? Is it science? Is anybody doing any research?

Most woo stuff holds little interest for me. But something which sounds woo, but might actually work, always gets my interest. Especially medical stuff.

I really would like to know, but I'm not quite willing to test it on my own body.
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Old 5th May 2008, 09:21 AM   #31
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In case you missed the other thread about this.

Originally Posted by robinson View Post
The missing finger that never was

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...esearch.health
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Old 5th May 2008, 11:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Madalch View Post
I thought you were supposed to use pig's bladders to prevent earthquakes...
I thought you were supposed to use pigs' bladders to play football...
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Old 6th May 2008, 04:15 AM   #33
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Pig Bladders, is there anything they can't do?
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Old 6th May 2008, 04:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by robinson View Post
Pig Bladders, is there anything they can't do?
Can you grind them up to make oinkment?
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Old 6th May 2008, 04:35 AM   #35
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Being serious here for a minute, I would like to know if the stuff works as well as the website says it does, on all the animal procedures.

This is the kind of thing that sounds like it could work. I wondered last year when I heard about it if it could help skin regrow, after a wound that might require a graft. Sprinkle powder on would. I wonder if it would help clotting?

Shucks, I'm ready to order some just in case. But I want to know if it is a scam first. Plus, I don't have any wounds to try it on. And I am not cutting off a finger tip to find out.
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Old 7th May 2008, 07:34 AM   #36
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Here is some more discussion:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=113#more-113

It is a fairy-tale.

Last edited by JJM; 7th May 2008 at 08:22 AM. Reason: I read the post to which I linked
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:12 AM   #37
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I wonder if the Army ever did a study.
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