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Tags 911 conspiracy theory , fbi , Webster Tarpley

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Old 14th March 2007, 11:12 AM   #41
beachnut
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Originally Posted by skepticalcriticalguy View Post
I have to go to work, but I'll try to get you some info tonight.

Here are a couple sites:
http://team8plus.org/news.php
http://www.total411.info/
woo sites. You will not have a job long if you tell the people you work with about your woo stuff.

You really have the top woo sites. You really need to post over at this place!

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...ex.php?act=idx

You never say anything about 9/11. You are just a lemming posting web sites of junk on 9/11. Why even post? What are your facts? What do you have we have not seen? Your web site are just full of lies and junk. Why waste our time and your time on lies. Present some new facts. We all agree that Webster Tarpley's books are full of lies, what new source from woo land needs debunking? What new facts will you present? What do you have to take to the FBI to break this wide open as so many 9/11 truther drones brag?

Last edited by beachnut; 14th March 2007 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 15th March 2007, 01:32 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You will not have a job long if you tell the people you work with about your woo stuff.
OK, Bill O'Reilley. Thanks for the heads up. I won't bring it up around the water cooler.
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Old 15th March 2007, 04:35 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by skepticalcriticalguy View Post
OK, Bill O'Reilley. Thanks for the heads up. I won't bring it up around the water cooler.

How are you going with that info about the "15 drills"? I had a look at those websites, and frankly I'm not interested in trawling through the chaotic garbage they have there trying to find what you're talking about. I noticed one of them is promoting Killtown's "No plane at Shankesville" video.

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Old 16th March 2007, 12:22 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
How are you going with that info about the "15 drills"? I had a look at those websites, and frankly I'm not interested in trawling through the chaotic garbage they have there trying to find what you're talking about. I noticed one of them is promoting Killtown's "No plane at Shankesville" video.

-Gumboot
I hate to just sling a link to a Youtube/Google video, but my time is limited.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+seattle&hl=en


In this lecture, Tarpley cover most of the "drills" (your quotes) that were going on. Keep in ind that some of them are ongoing drills; not necessarily scheduled to start the morning of 9/11. He also talks about drills on 7/7/05 in London.

I would say jump to about 2/3 into it, where he concentrates on these drills. But then you will miss his analysis of Able Warrior/Able Danger, which is covered earlier in the lecture.

Hell, why not; if you can take the time, watch the whole thing. It will help you understand where the "rogue network within the government MIHOP" people are coming from. I'm sure parts will annoy the hell out of you, because it's been "debunked," but go with it. A lot of people are starting to listen to this guy. It's not the "Bush did it!" or "Cheney did it!" typical woo stuff. Ironically, it even opens the door to the possibilty that Al Qaida "did it," but as a contractor (as David Shayler has suggested; he claims MI6 hired Al Qaida to off Qadaffi (sp?) of Libya).
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Old 16th March 2007, 12:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by skepticalcriticalguy View Post
So the official story isn't even official yet???

Correct. The NRO and the NSA are still looking at hard data concerning Islamic groups and the trace back of events just prior to 911.

I know that Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA-MSFC) recieved a large amount of debris from the WTC complex for analysis and that too is under wraps publicly.

I am anxious for the data on the latter, especially.


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Old 18th March 2007, 11:49 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RAMS View Post

I know that Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA-MSFC) recieved a large amount of debris from the WTC complex for analysis and that too is under wraps publicly.
Of course it is.
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Old 18th March 2007, 11:57 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by skepticalcriticalguy View Post
I hate to just sling a link to a Youtube/Google video, but my time is limited.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+seattle&hl=en


In this lecture, Tarpley cover most of the "drills" (your quotes) that were going on. Keep in ind that some of them are ongoing drills; not necessarily scheduled to start the morning of 9/11. He also talks about drills on 7/7/05 in London.

I would say jump to about 2/3 into it, where he concentrates on these drills. But then you will miss his analysis of Able Warrior/Able Danger, which is covered earlier in the lecture.

Hell, why not; if you can take the time, watch the whole thing. It will help you understand where the "rogue network within the government MIHOP" people are coming from. I'm sure parts will annoy the hell out of you, because it's been "debunked," but go with it. A lot of people are starting to listen to this guy. It's not the "Bush did it!" or "Cheney did it!" typical woo stuff. Ironically, it even opens the door to the possibilty that Al Qaida "did it," but as a contractor (as David Shayler has suggested; he claims MI6 hired Al Qaida to off Qadaffi (sp?) of Libya).
Webster Tarpley is debunked; he is not a credible source for 9/11 information. Find at least 2 or 3 independent sources to help you one this you! The only thing you learn from Tarpley is how stupid he is on 9/11. He is just a BS artist and you have failed to grasp the facts of 9/11 and you are too lazy to start. Start by doing your own fact finding and explain why any of his junk is worth anything. It is all BS; stuff of bad pulp fiction.

If you do not have time to properly research these idiots and tell us if it is true then do not post trash and lies about 9/11. If you are too lazy to do the research and prove the idiot is telling the truth save us and you the embarrassment of your weak research skills. You only show how shallow and disrespectful you are of the 9/11 event and those that died by bringing up lie after lie and trying to pass it off as fact on 9/11.

BTW when you mention drills most will know you are full of BS too.
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Old 18th March 2007, 12:05 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by skepticalcriticalguy View Post
I hate to just sling a link to a Youtube/Google video, but my time is limited.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+seattle&hl=en


In this lecture, Tarpley cover most of the "drills" (your quotes) that were going on.
Since your time is limited, I'll give you two simple questions.

1) NEADS dealt with all the 9/11 hijackings. Did they run any drills on 9/11?

2) Did the U.S. military run any drills on 9/11 involving hijackings?
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Old 18th March 2007, 12:18 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by RAMS View Post
I know that Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA-MSFC) recieved a large amount of debris from the WTC complex for analysis and that too is under wraps publicly.

I am anxious for the data on the latter, especially.
I hadn't heard this. Do you have any sources for that info, or know what type of debris they're analyzing, and why?

Perhaps they're looking for Star Wars beams.
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Old 18th March 2007, 12:27 PM   #50
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I can't find any results yet on NASA NTRS, or anything relevant at all.

Guessing in the dark, Marshall does a lot of work on combustion (rocket propulsion, natch) and has a number of small test stands. I'd speculate that they may be modeling impact, effects of the initial blast, or collapse dynamics and comparing to recovered steel.
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Old 28th May 2007, 12:09 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
I'd certainly like to see some information about these alleged 15 drills. I know quite a lot about the "drills" that were happening on 9/11. I'd also be curious to hear what their definition of "drill" is.

Do you have a link, or can you name these 15 "drills"?

-Gumboot

I've just come across this Tarpley "drills" claim in another forum. They gave me a link a video, as they do , but I found a (woo) site that lists 15 "drills" in their 9/11 timeline.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/t...itaryExercises

By my count:

1. Northern Vigilance

2. Vigilant Guardian

3. FBI/CIA drill at Monterey

4. Global Guardian

5. Fort Belvoir (near the Pentagon) base security exercise

6. NEADS

7. Andrews Airforce base, North Carolina exercise

8. Fort Monmouth, NJ fake chemical disaster drill

9. NRO, Chantilly, Virginia exercise

10. Vigilant Warrior? (could be a myth based on a slip of the tongue)

11. Fort Myer, near the Pentagon, air crash rescue class

12. NORAD hijacking simulation

13. AWACS training mission off the coast of Florida

14. Ellington Air National Guard base training mission

15. OEM NY Tripod bioterrorism drill


Now, my first question is, how many drills were normally run on any given day throughout the country?


Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Since your time is limited, I'll give you two simple questions.

1) NEADS dealt with all the 9/11 hijackings. Did they run any drills on 9/11?

2) Did the U.S. military run any drills on 9/11 involving hijackings?
I may have to use those questions.
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Old 28th May 2007, 01:18 AM   #52
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I imagine that there were many, many more military training exercises either underway or planned for 9/11 than those Tarpley lists. The U.S. military is very large and is involved in training constantly.

These are the NORAD exercises either underway or planned for 9/11.

1) Operation Northern Vigilance. This was a yearly exercise involving real aircraft in Alaska and northwest Canada which responded to Russian training exercises. It began on Sept. 9. The Russians called off their exercise when they learned of the attacks.

2) Vigilant Guardian and Global Guardian. These were annual NORAD-wide command-post exercises (CPX), which were simulations not involving real aircraft. They were designed to test response to a simulated nuclear attack from Russia.

Tarpley lists NEADS as a war game. NEADS is part of NORAD, the Northeast Air Defense Sector. NEADS and its 4 alert fighters on the east coast responded to the 9/11 attacks. NEADS was scheduled to begin its Vigilant Guardian exercise at 0900 on 9/11. Of course when the attacks happened the exercise was canceled. NEADS ran no exercises on 9/11.

There were no hijacking exercises run on 9/11. At least one (a simulation not involving real aircraft) had been scheduled for later that day but of course was not run.

No "blips" were inserted on any civilian Air Traffic Control radar screens. This simply is not done. Think of the dangerous confusion it would cause.

Vigilant Warrior was not part of the exercises or operations around 9/11. As you noted, its mention was a slip of the tongue by Richard Clarke.

The Office of Emergency Management/FEMA Tripod II bioterrorism drill was neither scheduled for nor run on 9/11. That exercise was scheduled for September 12.

None of the exercises listed would have affected the outcome of the attacks had they not been run.
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Old 28th May 2007, 02:16 AM   #53
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Thanks Orphia, I can respond to that list a little later.

Just one pedantic thing...

It is incorrect to refer to "Operation Northern Vigilance" as an exercise. It was not an exercise, in any size, shape or form. It was a real-world operation, in response to real-world movement of real-world Russian aircraft.

The brief response to the wargames, as Gravy is quite correct to point out, is that only one set of wargames (Global Guardian and Vigilant Guardian are part of the same overall exercise referred to as "Vigilant Overview") involved the forces required to respond to the attacks. These exercises did not involve any operational units, they did not involve the FAA, and they did not impair the response. Indeed, according to Richard Meyers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (and the sponsor of the Vigilant Overview exercises), these exercises improved the military response, as it meant operational positions were filled with personnel that normally would not be filled except under a higher level of DEFCON.

While it didn't ensure a successful intercept, Conspiracy Theorists ignore the fact that NORAD's activities for the days continued well into the afternoon with many successful intercepts and the establishment of CAPs over every single US city, supported by AWACS and Airbourne Tankers. To go from the lowest level of readiness, to implementing a modified form of SCATANA (the military emergency plan designed for use in the event of a full scale Nuclear attack) in the space of a few hours is a phenomenal achievement.

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Old 28th May 2007, 06:13 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
I've just come across this Tarpley "drills" claim in another forum. They gave me a link a video, as they do , but I found a (woo) site that lists 15 "drills" in their 9/11 timeline.

All right, let's have a look.

Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
1. Northern Vigilance

Isn't a drill.


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
2. Vigilant Guardian

Command post exercise. Improved response time.


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
3. FBI/CIA drill at Monterey

Irrelevant to immediate response to attacks.


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
4. Global Guardian

See Vigilant Guardian. (They're both components of the same exercise).


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
5. Fort Belvoir (near the Pentagon) base security exercise

Security exercises as a single army base are not relevant to the immediate response to the attacks.



Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
6. NEADS
NEADS were involved in the Vigilant Guardian exercise. See above. It enhanced response.




Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
7. Andrews Airforce base, North Carolina exercise

Not an exercise. Two fighters from the 121st Fighter Squadron based at Andrews AFB were on a training flight. Training is what armed forces do every day when they are not at war.





Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
8. Fort Monmouth, NJ fake chemical disaster drill
As per Fort Belvoir.


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
9. NRO, Chantilly, Virginia exercise

The NRO control satellites. Not relevant to immediate responses to 9/11.



Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
10. Vigilant Warrior? (could be a myth based on a slip of the tongue)

A myth. Vigilant Warrior does not comply with military exercise codename regulations.



Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
11. Fort Myer, near the Pentagon, air crash rescue class

Houses the US Army Band, 1st Batt of the Old Guards, and notable senior officers. Not relevant to immediate response to 9/11 (notable officers were at work, as attack happened during the day).


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
12. NORAD hijacking simulation

Major Nasypany (NEADS MCC) had designed an airliner hijacking as part of the Vigilant Guardian exercise (see above). It was to be an international flight coming across the Atlantic, hijacked, and landed in Cuba. According to Nasypany it was scheduled for approx 0930.


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
13. AWACS training mission off the coast of Florida

14. Ellington Air National Guard base training mission
As before, training does not equal a major exercise or drill. Military units train every single day.

Ellington was one of the 7 alert sites on 9/11, so that point could be interesting, however they weren't part of NEADS (I think WADS) and were too far to do anything. I find it highly unlikely that the two alert F-16s at Ellington were also taking part in the training mission.


Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
15. OEM NY Tripod bioterrorism drill

Was not scheduled to start until Sept 12. Can only have improved immediate response, not hindered it. Was called "Tripod II" - a joint FEMA/Department of Justice exercise.

So when we actually look at it, not even getting into the validity of these claims above, we get a total of three exercises involving the US military, only one of which related (even remotely) to any immediate military response to 9/11, and by its nature, this exercise enhanced response time.

Well, that was thrilling.

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Old 28th May 2007, 06:39 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by skepticalcriticalguy View Post
Like any journalist, including the BBC, Fox Noise, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, Al Jazeera, etc, report stories wrong all the time. Every day, Nut. And sometimes they even admit to getting bad information. (Like that WTC7 collapse story. Which went out 15-20 minutes early in Berlin, also, BTW). So why do you believe them?
A book is NOT a breaking news report. A book should be researched and the writer has the leisure of time to carry out that research. A reporter on a breaking story acts on the information as it comes to him/her and has little time or opportunity to check the reports he/she gets.

That makes it quite obvious that your comparison of Tarpley's erroneous statements concerning Payne (learn the man's name OK) Stewart's aircraft, and the BBC reporting of the premature demise of WTC 7 is way off the mark. It apples to oranges SCG.
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Old 28th May 2007, 01:52 PM   #56
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There is no "official story" or "official conspiracy theory". There is only the story that can be assumed from all the evidence that is infront of all our eyes. To call it the "official story" is the conspiracy theorists way of saying its just the story of the evil governmant workers.

There is the story based on all the best evidence, and then there is the conspiracy theories. And mind you, there must be atleast 5 seperate conspiracy theories.
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Old 28th May 2007, 03:07 PM   #57
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FEMA had been talking about a bioterrorism threat for months before 9/11. It was considered in their top 3 potential disasters even before 9/11.
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Old 28th May 2007, 03:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by steve s View Post
One of the few songs to get the F-word past the radio censors. I can think of two others that managed to do it. Both are classic rock songs. One of them is played fairly regularly and should be pretty easy. The other one is a bit more obscure. Can you guess them?

(sorry for the derail.)

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One was the Rolling Stones' "Star Star" aka "Star ********r"

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Old 29th May 2007, 12:59 AM   #59
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Thanks very much, Gumboot and Gravy for your responses. It's good to know this thread is in the public domain so your knowledge can also help others.
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