New (?) film of gash in WTC7

GlennB

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GlennB
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Well, new to me anyway, and comes as a bit of a shock.
It's posted at LCF and someone has already mentioned Beam Weapons :eek:

The video is here

oops. yes it's already in the "10 storey hole" thread
 
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This is the first images I have seen of the actual gash. My understanding of the gash was originally based of witness accounts, but this just verifies that. The gash actually appears much, much worse than it was described by witnesses.
 
Unless I am looking at the wrong thing, I really don't think that's a gash. I think it is part of the architecture. I've circled in green the two possible areas I think it is in the diagram below:
wtc7.jpg
 
You sure Arkan?

This image of the South side of WTC7 pre-9/11 doesn't show anything like the huge black gash we see in that film.

wtc7_between.jpg


In all honesty though, I haven't really looked into it.

ETA:

I did a quick photoshop demonstration of what I am saying lol.

similaritiesro5.jpg
 
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pic no workie there doc

ETA: actually, if someone could screencap and highlight the area in question that would be great. Then I would be certain as to what I am supposed to be looking at.
 
chipmunk stew said:
Yep. The black/dark gray gash is about five columns from the left on the South face, which is the face shown in the pre-9/11 photos. There's nothing architectural to account for it, and its width conforms to the space between two columns.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think the top down diagram was showing the two buildings in front of it
b7_new.jpg
 
It looks too cleanly defined for a gash.

Considering the well-defined vertical lines, it compares to the shadows that can be seen on buildings to the left of the WTC7 image, though much narrower.

MM
 
Miragememories said:
It looks too cleanly defined for a gash.

Considering the well-defined vertical lines, it compares to the shadows that can be seen on buildings to the left of the WTC7 image, though much narrower.
Click to expand...

Doesn't look at all like a shadow, though - there's nothing visible of the bulding structure in the dark region even though it's not completely black. Anyway, with all that smoke around, I think any shadows would be extremely ill-defined because of scattering of the light that caused them.

It looks to me like a big piece of debris took out everything between columns 5 and 6 for several storeys, but was prevented from doing any damage beyond that region by the columns themselves; it also looks like the columns might have guided its fall. Does anyone have any information on how the facade of WTC7 was constructed - in particular, was the facing made of sections that were joined along the lines of the columns, and what kind of cross-bracing there was between the columns?

As for the effect of taking out a region like this on the stability of the building, I suspect the final NIST report will have something to say on that.

Dave
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Anyone have the damage diagram handy and/or general building schematics?
Click to expand...

wtc7_damage_est.jpg


wtc7_layout_basic.jpg


Source (alphabetic column labels added)

At the time of this document's creation, NIST was relying on "photographs, video, and interview records", and they do not include a clear photo of the south side, so their "Approximate Region of Impact Damage by Large WTC1 Debris" was probably estimated from firefighter accounts.

The gash seen in this new footage appears to be between columns C and D. It's perfectly framed between the two columns, which is why it looks so straight. It's not likely a shadow because there's no directed light (because of the smoke), there's no sign of any architectural features in the gap (it's empty, not merely dark), there's no good candidate for a nearby object that would cast such a shadow, and the likelihood of a shadow lining up perfectly vertically and perfectly edged by a pair of columns is extraordinarily low.
 
Miragememories said:
It looks too cleanly defined for a gash.

Considering the well-defined vertical lines, it compares to the shadows that can be seen on buildings to the left of the WTC7 image, though much narrower.

MM
Click to expand...

I was about to say "don't be ridiculous", but others have expressed it much more scientifically.
 
I don't think it's a reflection or a shadow... but it is pretty straight-looking. Is it possible that this whole section collapsed because of the damage below it ?

Anyway, it looks as though the damage to 7 WTC was actually worse than I thought.
 
Belz... said:
I don't think it's a reflection or a shadow... but it is pretty straight-looking. Is it possible that this whole section collapsed because of the damage below it ?
Click to expand...
Possibly, but the support columns framing the gash are still intact in this footage. I can't imagine how upper sections would collapse above a damaged area unless the columns supporting the sections were destroyed. It seems more likely that a large piece of debris ripped through the facade and the floors from the top, in a sense guided by the columns on either side.
 
chipmunk stew said:
Possibly, but the support columns framing the gash are still intact in this footage. I can't imagine how upper sections would collapse above a damaged area unless the columns supporting the sections were destroyed. It seems more likely that a large piece of debris ripped through the facade and the floors from the top, in a sense guided by the columns on either side.
Click to expand...

That must've been a mighty big piece of debris.
 
Minadin said:
The evidence that it's even a gash is somewhat flimsy at the moment, I would say. I'm not yet sure what to make of it.
Click to expand...
As Kent1 posted above, the gash is visible in older images (though less clearly). Before these clear images, I was unconvinced that what we could see included the damage the firefighters described. But the images corroborate one another, and with the clear image, I'm convinced it's the huge gash they described.

edit: images from the link:

news_wtc7_1.jpg


ZafarWTC7.jpg
 
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Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Unless I am looking at the wrong thing, I really don't think that's a gash. I think it is part of the architecture. I've circled in green the two possible areas I think it is in the diagram below:
[qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/ArkanWolfshade/wtc7.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

Arkan, what you've circled in your picture is the gap between the pedestrian bridge and the promenade that went over Vesey Street. Further down, the two buildings you're looking at are WTC 5 and 6. That is a wicked gash stretching from the top down 20 floors or so, at least.
 
Do we have any experts around who could comment on the "smoothness" of the sides of the "gash" and if debris would likely leave such a shape?

TAM:)
 
If you watch the video, and wait for it to zoom out, it is also very clear, if we are saying the gash is also present at the top of the building, that it is much bigger than 20 storeys...more like 30.

TAM:)
 
That it one hell of a gash. To me it looks to run right from the top of the building, right down the centre.

I get the feeling that the final report from NIST will simply destroy any woo theories; apart from TS of course, his theories destroy themselves.
 
stateofgrace said:
That it one hell of a gash. To me it looks to run right from the top of the building, right down the centre.

I get the feeling that the final report from NIST will simply destroy any woo theories; apart from TS of course, his theories destroy themselves.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I think this video will make the NIST final report useless. Unless they specifically have an explanation for the smoothness we see in this gash, the CTers will cry foul, claiming they never addressed the "High Energy Beam" hypothesis that could have resulted in such a smooth cut.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Unfortunately I think this video will make the NIST final report useless. Unless they specifically have an explanation for the smoothness we see in this gash, the CTers will cry foul, claiming they never addressed the "High Energy Beam" hypothesis that could have resulted in such a smooth cut.

TAM:)
Click to expand...
TAM, the sides of the gash are two support columns. Since almost all of the force of the debris impact was vertical, whatever lateral force it did have simply was not enough to bust through either column, so it followed a path between the columns, like rails. That's one plausible explanation.

If CTers as a whole fall back on energy beams (not likely) then there's nothing more to be done. They lose.
 
Not only is it odd that the gash has such nice geometric lines, the adjoining windows appear to be remarkably undisturbed.

MM
 
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