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Tags flight 77 , daniel davis , 911 conspiracy theory

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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:09 AM   #1
Panoply_Prefect
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Anyone heard of Daniel Davis U.S. Army?

Has anyone heard about Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army?

He's apparently a ret. Norad Officer who today (?) made the following statement on "Patriots Question 9/11":

Originally Posted by Daniel Davis@PQ911
As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."
To me the following thoughs come to mind:

When was he working? (Eg, was there a difference during, say, the Cold War, on how Norad responded to Hijacking and deviating civil airliners within the US borders?)
Why does he attack the strawman "engines totally destroyed"? As I understand it engine parts were found at all sites.
What understanding has he on how airplanes can be flown? (Doesnt seem to be any piloting on his CV)

Anyone here knows better than me and could fill in the blanks? I particularly has a faint recollection that Norad doesnt really respond to hijackings, but I could be mistaken.


Cheers,
SLOB

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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:14 AM   #2
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I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.
What a silly man.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:16 AM   #3
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Just a hunch, but this guy doesn't sound like he's who he says he is. I smell another CT fraud.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:16 AM   #4
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gumboot is this forum's most articulate poster with regard to NORAD issues.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:18 AM   #5
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I would refer you to the thread "How can you tell an Expert from a non-Expert", and comment that this account has all the hallmarks of a non-expert. "As a [insert expertise here] I can guarantee that [insert claim here]" does not look like the statement of someone who thinks he can back up his claim with hard data. Bottom line - no evidence, just a hyperbole-laden opinion. He should show the working.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:20 AM   #6
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Also, I personally witnessed a crash of a medium-sized military helicopter about 12 years ago. It went straight into the tarmac at a relatrively high rate (though I cannot guess as to the speed). The only remains left behind were charred dust and bits, none of them larger than your hand.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:40 AM   #7
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As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist...
Quote:
(as a) manager of a turbine engineering company...
Quote:
(as a) CEO of a turbine engineering company...
Quote:
as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense...
Quote:
as a current private pilot
He forgot to mention his structural engineering doctorate and crash investigation experience...
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:51 AM   #8
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what's with all these "fake" woos coming forward lately? is this a test on how fast the Woo movement will grab onto a story , publish it, then see how fast they rescinde/take down the story when they find out its fake?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:54 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Arus808 View Post
what's with all these "fake" woos coming forward lately? is this a test on how fast the Woo movement will grab onto a story , publish it, then see how fast they rescinde/take down the story when they find out its fake?
COINTELPRO, Arus. COIN-frakkin-TELPRO.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:57 AM   #10
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As a pilot on this pilot, he is a nut case.

Did he miss the engines? One engine flew through the WTC. Engines all over the place. Eight engines. But the engines would be in parts, depending on how they expended their energy.

No if I turned off my transponder they would look for me but I could fly for hours in the old days and they would not intercept me! WHY, WHAT you say!? They have your flight plan, they have your name and current address. They use the speed of light to find you later. The phone call to the cops and they pick up Beachnut for flying without a flight plan and turning off his transponder and being a hazard to flight. Make up you own real scenario, it would be better than Mr Davis wacko pilot.

If I was hijacked I tell them, even then why would there be an intercept (old days)? There could be, but they have to find the plane, and the controllers have to still take care of the other planes. Now we will have intercepts and some neat tricks to stop planes from doing what they want.

Each flight incident would be handled different in the old days.

It seems he is wong, anybody could fly a 757 into the Pentagon, they could do it today. Simple to fly the new jets. Gee some idiot killed himself flying into the White House, it is very possible to fly into things some of us do it without meaning to. This pilot must be one challenged pilot!

Last edited by beachnut; 23rd March 2007 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:57 AM   #11
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Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that...

Sigh. Who said they "accomplished" this? They just flew the plane at the building and it hit where it hit.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist...
Quote:
(as a) manager of a turbine engineering company...
Quote:
(as a) CEO of a turbine engineering company...
Quote:
as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense...
Quote:
as a current private pilot
Originally Posted by apathoid View Post
He forgot to mention his structural engineering doctorate and crash investigation experience...
He also should have mentioned his post doctoral research in metallurgy.

I think he was responsible for the installation of the missile defense system at the pentagon too.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 11:09 AM   #13
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Total lie, total flake, total Strange, total woo.

Same 'ol, ame 'ol..............

...hundreds of engine parts found everywhere at every site. Heard the same crap that after NASA shot down Columbia there were no parts found, just shredded metal here and there all over two states, never mind astronaut helmets with scalps within............

Another sicko is all........


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Old 23rd March 2007, 02:47 PM   #14
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"No way," Daniel?

Way!
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Old 23rd March 2007, 03:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by boloboffin View Post
Sigh. Who said they "accomplished" this? They just flew the plane at the building and it hit where it hit.


It's another example of them assuming they were aiming for just that spot....If these guys were firing a rifle, they'd be drawing bullseyes around all the bullet holes, and claiming to be marksmen.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 03:45 PM   #16
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Is this an example of what might be called "technical bleed"?
Our hero Daniel begins as an expert in Turbine Engineering. He then moves on to make statements on complete engines - of which I understand "turbines" are but a component. Then he expands further on aircraft tail and wing assemblies - surely outside his area of competence, hmmm?
Moving beyond that, he then manages commentary on NORAD and aircraft performance, piloting and procedures all far outside his sphere of competence. Surely not a creation by the Twoofers?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 04:33 PM   #17
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What jumped out at me was:


Originally Posted by SLOB View Post
Has anyone heard about Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army?

He's apparently a ret. Norad Officer who today (?) made the following statement on "Patriots Question 9/11":


NORAD is USAF and AIRCOM.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 05:02 PM   #18
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Looking at the specifics of his claims:

Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company

As far as I am aware there aren't many engine companies around. Shouldn't be too hard to find a list of former CEO's of Pratt & Whitney, CFM International, General Electric, and Rolls Royce.



Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire.

I don't know that someone who builds them would be best at commenting on this - I think a crash investigator would be better placed. Funnily enough we have one here at JREF. Beachnut?

I am curious how their "high tech, high temperature alloy" features prevent them from being destroyed. Normally strength is a componant of survival.




Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

As others have pointed out quite rightly, plenty of large engine componants recovered from all crash sites. Wing and tail assembly comment is ridiculous. Aircraft wings never survive crashes because they have all the fuel in them. Even in instances were aircraft burn on the ground, there's no wings. Usually a wing-shaped burn mark on the ground.

Also rightly pointed out, he is a not a crash investigator, no authority to make these remarks.




Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense

I'd love to know how an Army Officer managed to get into NORAD, which is run by the United States Air Force and Canadian Air Command.

I'd also know why he refers to "Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense". Both Illinois and Wisconsin are in the North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS). NORAD does not have command centres in the Continguous USA below the three Air Defense Sectors (NEADS, SEADS, and WADS).

Tactical Director also sounds like a fudge title. Director? Isn't that a bit... civilian?

The Tactical position at NEADS is the "Weapons Team" and they are commanded by a Major (on 9/11, Major James Fox (Foxy), 32).



Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control.

Intercepts are only required for deviations or failings inside the Air Defense Identification Zone. Despite his assertions, both the NEADS tapes, and the evidence of earlier intercepts suggest from the get-go that a 9/11 intercept wasn't going to succeed.




Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Actually this is a grossly misleading argument. NEADS only had two sets of fighters. The more hijackings there are (10 to NEADS in 90 minutes) the harder it becomes to intercept any of them.




Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

This is laughibly stupid. The Pentagon is the largest office building in the world. Simply looking at satellite/aerial photography images of Washington DC immediately demolishes this argument.

For comparison with "the best pilots in the world" the helicopter pilots at the US Army's 160th Special Operations Air Regiment (SOAR) are capable of landing their helicopters in spaces only a matter of inches wider than their rotor blades. That is skilled flying. Crashing an airliner into the largest office building in the world is probably one of the easiest flying skills around.



Originally Posted by Daniel Davis
Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."

Something is rotten in your statement.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 05:15 PM   #19
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This guy is surprised the wings didn't remain intact?

Sounds alot like the arguments concerning the Pentagon where the naive assumed that there would be a perfect outline of the jet. (Pesonally I think they've watched too many cartoons where the characters leave a perfect outline in the door/wall they just smashed through)

The wings are basically aluminium fuel tanks and if anything is going to be blown to bits, they will.

I can't imagine anyone with even passing knowledge of the structure of a comercial liner expecting the wings to remain intact after slamming into a solid structure.

You can't believe everything you see on 'Deputy Dawg'.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 05:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Looking at the specifics of his claims:

As far as I am aware there aren't many engine companies around. Shouldn't be too hard to find a list of former CEO's of Pratt & Whitney, CFM International, General Electric, and Rolls Royce.
He doesn't say specifically that it's aircraft turbines.

Quote:
I am curious how their "high tech, high temperature alloy" features prevent them from being destroyed. Normally strength is a componant of survival.
I'm curious also. If you have specific questions, Gumboot, PM me. I have access to experts.

Quote:
As others have pointed out quite rightly, plenty of large engine componants recovered from all crash sites. Wing and tail assembly comment is ridiculous. Aircraft wings never survive crashes because they have all the fuel in them. Even in instances were aircraft burn on the ground, there's no wings. Usually a wing-shaped burn mark on the ground.

Also rightly pointed out, he is a not a crash investigator, no authority to make these remarks.
Well, to be fair, you are not a crash investigator either, and thus have no authority to make such a definitive ("Aircraft wings never") comment.

Quote:
I'd love to know how an Army Officer managed to get into NORAD, which is run by the United States Air Force and Canadian Air Command.
Me too! I also suspect an Army Officer would only gain military experience from working on rotary wing (helicopter) aircraft, not fixed wing.


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Old 23rd March 2007, 05:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
Is this an example of what might be called "technical bleed"?
Our hero Daniel begins as an expert in Turbine Engineering. He then moves on to make statements on complete engines - of which I understand "turbines" are but a component. Then he expands further on aircraft tail and wing assemblies - surely outside his area of competence, hmmm?
Moving beyond that, he then manages commentary on NORAD and aircraft performance, piloting and procedures all far outside his sphere of competence. Surely not a creation by the Twoofers?
I think this would be called "Qualification Creep".
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Old 23rd March 2007, 05:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SLOB View Post



To me the following thoughs come to mind:

When was he working? (Eg, was there a difference during, say, the Cold War, on how Norad responded to Hijacking and deviating civil airliners within the US borders?)
Why does he attack the strawman "engines totally destroyed"? As I understand it engine parts were found at all sites.
What understanding has he on how airplanes can be flown? (Doesnt seem to be any piloting on his CV)

The following comes to my mind:

Why do these experts not take their findings to the appropriate body of inquiry instead of a message board?
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Old 23rd March 2007, 06:59 PM   #23
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Found ths description on http://pbgiltner.blogspot.com/

Quote:
Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.
Something about Nike missile bases: http://alpha.fdu.edu/~bender/N-view.html


Quote:
All Nike Ajax sites in the continental United States were closed down by 1964. Closures of select Nike Hercules sites began during the mid 1960s.

During 1974, all remaining operational sites within the nationwide Nike air defense system were inactivated. Army Air Defense Command (ARADCOM) which administered this system was closed down shortly thereafter.
This is a perspective, time frame really, on his knowledge of NORAD operations.

According to an article I found, he served with the 101st, then after discharge, worked for GE before founding TTS. I found another [trade] article that TTS was bought by another company around 2000. He's supposed to be involved in home building (I think) and a biodiesel company now. The first article said he's running for the House of Representatives from Oregon. (I forgot to note when the article was dated).
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Old 23rd March 2007, 07:07 PM   #24
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ya, you know that when they are the CEOs of this and that and have official experience in this and that, it's all an inflated resume.

It is common for crashes to leave only tiny parts behind. Furthermore, the fire was jet fuel-fuelled, burning in an enclosed building space at 100,000 F!!!! Of course the engines were destoryed
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny View Post
He doesn't say specifically that it's aircraft turbines.

His comments imply it was aircraft turbines. In any event, the companies listed don't just make jet aircraft engines. Pratt and Whitney, for example, make industrial gas turbines as well. As do General Electric.



Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny View Post
I'm curious also. If you have specific questions, Gumboot, PM me. I have access to experts.

I was just being sarcastic... His tone was an effort to brush of failure of the equipment because of their "high-tech nature" which is a ridiculous argument, that no one with a brain would make.



Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny View Post
Well, to be fair, you are not a crash investigator either, and thus have no authority to make such a definitive ("Aircraft wings never") comment.

That's true. Let me rephrase. In an air accident where wing mounted fuel tanks rupture and ignite, there will not be wing sections remaining. That doesn't require any sort of special knowledge.



Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny View Post
Me too! I also suspect an Army Officer would only gain military experience from working on rotary wing (helicopter) aircraft, not fixed wing.

Indeed.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:39 PM   #26
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I'm not saying that this guy is a liar, but there are problems with his story. The one that I noticed right away, and others have pointed out, is that he was an US army officer working at NORAD? While not unheard of, it still casts some suspicion on his story for me.
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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
Found ths description on http://pbgiltner.blogspot.com/

I just did a Google Search for "Daniel Davis" on pbgiltner.blogspot.com and came back with nothing. Sure it was that site?



Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
Something about Nike missile bases: http://alpha.fdu.edu/~bender/N-view.html

This is a perspective, time frame really, on his knowledge of NORAD operations.

Even assuming he worked with Nike, they were operated by the US Army, not NORAD, thus it demonstrates his knowledge of NORAD operations would be zero.


Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
According to an article I found, he served with the 101st, then after discharge, worked for GE before founding TTS. I found another [trade] article that TTS was bought by another company around 2000. He's supposed to be involved in home building (I think) and a biodiesel company now. The first article said he's running for the House of Representatives from Oregon. (I forgot to note when the article was dated).
Got a link for that article?

TTS was founded in 1983, so if he founded it, and before that worked for 15 years at GE, that means he retired in 1968 at the earliest. In 1968 the 101st Airborne Division had just been deployed to Vietnam - their first major engagement being the Battle of Hamburger Hill in May 1969 as part of Operation Apache Snow.

We also have a conflict here in his service record.

One record says he was with ARADCOM and NORAD, but received medals etc for combat in Vietnam. ARADCOM and NORAD are home defense departments and did not deploy to Vietnam. Since he allegedly retired in 1968, there's no possibility of him serving in Vietnam and then servind with ARADCOM or NORAD (being Army, NORAD is incorrect anyway...).

An alternative claims he was with 101st Airborne, who are not ARADCOM or NORAD, but who did deploy to Vietnam.

Apparantly this Captain retired right about when the Division was deployed to Vietnam, which seems rather odd if you ask me.

Somehow this decorated infantry combat soldier (or alternatively non-decorated Air Defense soldier) then immediately got a job as a Senior Manager at GE in their jet turbine division.

Story doesn't add up.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 08:52 PM   #28
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Found it. I make no claims about its accuracy.

http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2...es/09local.htm

ETA: Does seem unlikely that he could be a decorated combat soldier then serve as air defense officer.

Still if he was part of US air defense he would have to know a bit about NORAD procedures hence the "if you deviate you get caught right away" but that would have been when they had SAM bases to defend cities and many more fighters deployed on alert just in case. His being out of the service for more than 30 years would make his judgement about how effectively aircraft could be intercepted (now) rather suspect.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:13 PM   #29
gumboot
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Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
Found it. I make no claims about its accuracy.

http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2...es/09local.htm

Thanks. It has a website at the bottom: http://dandavisforcongress.org but it doesn't exist...



Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
ETA: Does seem unlikely that he could be a decorated combat soldier then serve as air defense officer.

I don't think it's unlikely. It's just impossible for him to have founded TTS in 1983, worked for GE for 15 years before that, have served a combat tour in Vietnam with the 101st Airborne Division, AND have served air defense.

Also the article indicates he was in Vietnam 1968-69 but he would need to retire in 1968 to fit the timeline.

I've emailed TTS with more info about the founding of their company...so we'll wait and see.


Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
Still if he was part of US air defense he would have to know a bit about NORAD procedures hence the "if you deviate you get caught right away"

I disagree completely. ARADCOM would only come into affect in the event of an attack, at which point NORAD would have implemented the SCATANA Plan. there's no reason a US Army Officer working Air Defense should know the peace-time proceedures of NORAD.

In addition, intercept proceedures are not NORAD's. They are the FAA's. This is something that has been bugging me for a while. NORAD does not have "standard intercept proceedures". NORAD does whatever mission it is ordered to do. The FAA is the one that has standard proceedures. It is they that requests assistance from NORAD. In peace time the FAA has absolute control of US Airspace. As we saw on 9/11 when the FAA refused to allow the NORAD fighters entry into NYC airspace, for fear of causing a collision.

I can't imagine an Army Officer having anything to do with the FAA.



Originally Posted by fezzic View Post
but that would have been when they had SAM bases to defend cities and many more fighters deployed on alert just in case. His being out of the service for more than 30 years would make his judgement about how effectively aircraft could be intercepted (now) rather suspect.

Indeed. During the Cold War NORAD had over 100 alert sites. On 9/11 they had 7.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:33 PM   #30
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This guy is starting to look legit for the most part, but his story still has some holes.

I'm still wondering when he was supposedly at NORAD, before Vietnam? The article above says that he's 62(last year), so when he was discharged in 1968, he was 24 years old. That must be some kind of record age to reach Captain(O-3) in the Army, considering that he couldnt have been the service more than 3 years tops.

http://www.sos.state.or.us/elections...m/davis_d.html
Also worth noting that his bio above shows that his degrees are in math and physics. I thought he was an engineer?

ETA: I guess he could be an engineer with those degrees, but I'd think GE would be looking for actual engineering degrees..

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Old 23rd March 2007, 09:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by apathoid View Post
This guy is starting to look legit for the most part, but his story still has some holes.
http://www.sos.state.or.us/elections...m/davis_d.html

I note that article claims he was only a 2nd LT.

I've got two proposals. One is he's bitter about not getting elected or whatever, and has gone off the deep end.

Or alternatively identity theft.

Could be someone has posted to "Patriots Question 9/11" and pretended to be him.



Originally Posted by apathoid View Post
Also worth noting that his bio above shows that his degrees are in math and physics. I thought he was an engineer?
Its worth noting he was a manager and executive for these turbine companies. There's no reason to assume an executive or manager would know anything about the technical nature of their work.

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Old 23rd March 2007, 10:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
I note that article claims he was only a 2nd LT.

I've got two proposals. One is he's bitter about not getting elected or whatever, and has gone off the deep end.

Or alternatively identity theft.

Could be someone has posted to "Patriots Question 9/11" and pretended to be him.
Quote:
Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.
Yep, could very well be. I don't think he'd call himself a Captain if he was actually just a butterbar. And I'd have trouble believing a 2 LT(good catch BTW) would be director of anything at NORAD.

Quote:
Its worth noting he was a manager and executive for these turbine companies. There's no reason to assume an executive or manager would know anything about the technical nature of their work.
But, the person claimed to be "a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist"

...and fezzic's article stated:

"...While working as an engineer, he traveled extensively in 52 countries"

I dunno. Either the guy has had his identity assumed by Truther or he tends to overstate his actual experience and technical background. Or both. This sounds like a job for the SLC guys!
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Old 24th March 2007, 02:18 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
NEADS only had two sets of fighters. The more hijackings there are (10 to NEADS in 90 minutes) the harder it becomes to intercept any of them.
How many planes are two sets? And this is a bit what I was thinking, how many planes would they have had during the Cold War period? (Im thinking that military personnel who retired during that period might overestimate the current tally)


And what is he? 2:nd Lieutenant or Captain? He cant bloody well be both, right?

Cheers,
S

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Old 24th March 2007, 03:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
What jumped out at me was:






NORAD is USAF and AIRCOM.

-Gumboot
But, NORAD lists at least one Marine Corps Officer (albeit not working with airspace surveillance):

http://www.norad.mil/leadership/SgtMaj_Frye_bio.htm

What gives?

/S

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Old 24th March 2007, 08:34 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by SLOB View Post
How many planes are two sets?

Four.

Two F-15C Eagles at Otis ANG Base and two F-16 Falcons at Langley AFB. Always launched in pairs.



Originally Posted by SLOB View Post
And this is a bit what I was thinking, how many planes would they have had during the Cold War period? (Im thinking that military personnel who retired during that period might overestimate the current tally)

Hundreds.


Originally Posted by SLOB View Post
And what is he? 2:nd Lieutenant or Captain? He cant bloody well be both, right?

It's either a case of someone writing in on his behalf to the Patriots site, or he is lying about his career etc... to boost his importance. Either way, it's simply not possible for all the things claimed to be true.

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Old 24th March 2007, 08:39 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by SLOB View Post
But, NORAD lists at least one Marine Corps Officer (albeit not working with airspace surveillance):

http://www.norad.mil/leadership/SgtMaj_Frye_bio.htm

What gives?

/S


On October 1st, 2002, in response to the September 11 attacks, the US Defense Force created a new unified combatant command - US Northern Command (NORTHCOM). NORAD was placed under their authority.

The Unified Commands are all services, thus as a result senior officers and NCO's in NORTHCOM could be from any of the services.

(By the way, this guy's not an officer... )

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Old 24th March 2007, 09:32 AM   #37
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Something that has been bugging me...

Under New Zealand law, any member of the armed forces must serve a minimum duration before they are allowed to retain their rank as a title in civilian life (with the qualifier "retired" after their name).

It is my understanding that this is standard in most western militaries. Is this correct for the USA?

I notice the article cites him as "retired" and titles him "captain". If this rule is correct, it would be incorrect for him to be titled such. In contrast in the more legitimate articles and entires on Dan/Daniel Davis (in regards to running for Congress) he is not titled with his rank and is not cited as "retired", instead the article merely mentions he is a formed US Army officer.

Can someone with US military experience perhaps clarify what the regulations are as far as using your rank and the "retired" citation as part of your title in civilian life?

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Old 24th March 2007, 11:53 AM   #38
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Gumboot,
As a retired NCO perhaps I can clarify. Use of the Rank/Retired designation is permitted as specified on the retirement document. The retiree is free to use the designation as he sees fit, except for the general requirement that such use not bring disrespect on the service. Of course fraudulent use of a military rank or title is illeagal and may (but rarely is) prosecuted.
Custom controls use in most cases. It's not unusual for a servicemember seperated honorably to refer to their rank or job, the usual form would be "Former US Army Captain". If retired the form becomes "Captain, US Army, Retired".
On appropriate occasions (Veterans Day Parade for example) honorably seperated servicemembers may wear the uniform, be reffered to by and given the courtesies of their former rank.
Retirees retain their rank, and the coutesies attaching.

Concerning Daniel Davis. A retired Army Captain is unusual, but by no means unprecidented. Retirement is normaly reached only after at least twenty years service, an officer reaching only Captain in twenty years would not be considered a fast burner. However, he could have; received a medical retirement at an early point, received a commission after some years as an enlisted man, been Riffed as a Capt. and served the rest of his twenty as enlisted, or, been busted from a higher grade but not denied retirement.

Quoting from the above quoted post by Apathoid:

"Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam."

This is very strange. The Soldiers Medal is a specificaly non-combat decoration. It was established to recognise heroic acts performed by soldiers in circumstances where they would not be eligible for existing military medals. For example; while home on leave entering a burning building to save the residents. Yet the bio indicates that he received this medal for bravery under fire in Vietnam.

Robert Klaus
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Old 24th March 2007, 12:02 PM   #39
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Does anyone have links to all the CTers that have claimed to be someone and been found out?
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Old 24th March 2007, 01:33 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by slugmancs View Post
Does anyone have links to all the CTers that have claimed to be someone and been found out?
The possible and confirmed fakes I'm aware of haven't been conclusively pinned on anyone. The discharge papers "Lauro Chavez" presented as proof of his credentials, I believe, were found to be fraudulent, but the act wasn't pinned on anyone as far as I know.
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