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Chinese Companies Not only Poisoning Pets but also People

Yep being going on for quite awhile - it's even happened in countries like the UK when "traditional chinese medicines" have been found to be unsafe.

I think watching China's development is amazing it is like being able to see the UK's industrial revolution speeded up. They are going through a period that the UK did, when there was very little protection from society for members of that society. I suspect we will see China start to adopt similar consumer protection laws, regulatory bodies and so on that you find in most "developed" countries of the world. Unfortunately I can imagine their imposition will be a lot harsher then the equivalent in the UK (- albeit a hundred and fifty years ago poisoning people by diluting milk with toxic materials would probably earn you a swing from the gallows).
 
Darat said:
Yep being going on for quite awhile - it's even happened in countries like the UK when "traditional chinese medicines" have been found to be unsafe.

I think watching China's development is amazing it is like being able to see the UK's industrial revolution speeded up. They are going through a period that the UK did, when there was very little protection from society for members of that society. I suspect we will see China start to adopt similar consumer protection laws, regulatory bodies and so on that you find in most "developed" countries of the world. Unfortunately I can imagine their imposition will be a lot harsher then the equivalent in the UK (- albeit a hundred and fifty years ago poisoning people by diluting milk with toxic materials would probably earn you a swing from the gallows).
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The U.S. has been unbelievably lax on food and medication safety until now. Here is an update on the melamine poisoned wheat gluten used in pet food and animal feeds:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/05/pet_food_recall43.html

The article states that the FDA (U.S.) actually has no direct authority to ban or recall food products and that these processes must be done voluntarily, usually I presume, as a result of pressure exerted by the FDA and the media.

There's something to be said in favor of the media.

In new legislation detailed in this consumer affairs article the FDA still is not given this authority over food products. This is a deliberate oversight in order to insulate the herbal, traditional medication, etc etc industry from FDA scrutiny and regulation. This industry stands behind the "food" categorization or "nutritional supplement" categorization to keep regulatory agencies at bay.
 
Agree 100% with Darat's comment; having spent my past 14 years in China, it has been like watching a fast-forward version of the last 100+ years of development in the West. I don't think there has been any country in history that has changed as much or as quickly as what has happened in the past two decades in China.

Yup, there are still TONS of problems in China. Counterfeit products abound. Some harmless (and even useful, such as the counterfeit DVDs I buy regularly); some very harmful (such as fake or even poisonous medications).

Heck, there was a case a few years ago where the owner of a daycare center poisoned the food served to children in another daycare center, just to "get rid of the competition".

On the plus side, most people who are caught doing this (I mean making dangerous/lethal products) get extremely strict sentences (life in a Chinese prison, or a bullet in the back of the head...I'm not sure which is worse). On the negative, given the fact that China's police force is understaffed and undertrained (many police have no more than a high school education), and that China's population is so huge and difficult to monitor, it is certain that no matter how hard they try, there will continue to be immoral profiteers who seek profit at the expense of others.

Just as major changes in Western culture (industrial revolution, emancipation, etc.) caused disruptions and problems initially, it is inevitable that China will face the same things; often amplified due to the much faster pace of change, and the huge population.

Am I seeking to let the Chinese off the hook? "Oh, we shouldn't criticize them, its not their fault"? No, not at all. Just pointing out that these things don't really set the Chinese apart from us; rather, they demonstrate how similar they are to us. We're all human, we all make the same mistakes.
 
Normally in China, this might be viewed as hard-working businessmen taking advantage of loopholes in regulations in the west. This time we may be looking at another side of China, though. First, they did their typical bureaucratic denials (see 'SARS')... "We sold no wheat gluten to the USA." When that was proved false, they changed to, "...but melamine is used in food supplements here, and in those quantities, its not toxic.." When they were tasked with coming up with just what "those quantities" meant, they had to admit they don't know - it's not regulated.

Now they've banned the use, and as of Friday they're mounting a national inspection (a daunting task considering the amount of food production in China) to assure that the ban is being complied with.

On Thursday, on an omenous note (for him), they arrested the G.M. of one of the two factories who were the ones selling the contaminated wheat gluten to the US companies.

China, last year, executed a provincial administrator for embezzlement - a whopping 200,000 RMB (US 35000 at the time)! They don't have the view of white collar crime that's prevalent in the west. Businessmen or politicians who take advantage of the system and create embarassment for their country or community are not going to do six months at a country club resort prison.

The math is pretty basic. For every percentage point of protein content you can "create" from melamine, you get 55 RMB (US 7.90 roughly) per ton. The typical mix was to add sufficient melamine (50 kg per ton) to raise the readings by 5% - an increase in your selling price by about usd 39 per ton. A container of wheat gluten will have 20 tons in it, so they were making almost eight hundred bucks (5600 RMB) on the scam. Cost? I have no source, but it was originally melamine scrap so negligible in cost. I'm sure it's gone up as demand went up, but have no source as to how high.

It should be emphasized that shipments of this sort of food additive to major producers in the USA usually run in dozens of containers per week, maybe more than a hundred a month. These folks were making an additional 80 to 100 thousand bucks a month, year round. A million USD in China is a whole lot of temptation.

So far, minus the initial denials, China is behaving rather remarkably. The news out of Beijing is the concern that Chinese are eating these same products, so rather than face the "China Gets a Red Face in The West" issues, they're spinning the news to the positive actions that the government is taking to protect its citizenry. Quite different from the past (and some still current - look at all the denials about coal mine safety still emanating from the bureaucracy).

Legal Disclaimer(not really... but it's appropriate):
I'm in supply chain logistics. I ship no foodstuffs. I do not know anything about this from my job, i.e. no insider knowledge. All of this is from local news sources, i.e. China Daily, South China Morning Post, Straits Times, CCTV(Chinese Television), ATV(Hong Kong TV), CNN, etc..... I've just been following it rather closely.
 
Foolmewunz,

Legitimate issues...but I'd like to clarify a little. There tends to be an awful lot of confusion between "Chinese" and "Chinese government" in these issues...as in everything bad that happens in China is done by or approved by the government. And the corollary to that is equating abuses by local government officials with abuses/policies of the national government. A number of examples:

* When a section of a new subway line collapsed during construction, the foreman of the company doing the construction sealed off the site and refused to alert either medical authorities or the police about the situation, despite several workers being trapped in the collapse. He hoped to rescue the people himself, and keep the whole incident quiet, in order to avoid penalties/punishment. It didn't work. As soon as the authorities found out, they sent in rescue teams (but too late, the workers were dead), arrested the foreman, etc. The news was available online almost immediately (including gov't controlled media). The reaction was, in fact, exactly what you'd expect of a reasonably responsible government.

But what did the newspapers back in Canada report? "Subway Collapse is Further Evidence of Chinese Olympic Culture of Secrecy" (or headlines to that effect. Almost all of the articles attempted to paint this as a coverup by Beijing Olympic authorities, and to furthermore imply that there was much more.

* Coal mines (a serious issue, mentioned in Foolmewunz's post) in China are most definitely a huge problem. Yes, many of them are terribly unsafe. And yes, government officials are often involved in running and profiting from those mines.

Other side of the story -- almost ALL of the most serious mine tragedies have occurred at illegal mines; mines that are opened and operated illegally, without any official government oversight. They are generally run by unscrupulous profiteers who don't care at all about the human lives involved, only about making as much money as possible. Almost always, these are run with the knowledge/cooperation of corrupt local government officials, who take payoffs (or are even involved in running the mines).

Thus, when it is reported in the news, it inevitably gets reported that the Chinese government runs (or is responsible for) all of these unsafe mines. Again, the truth is that the NATIONAL Chinese government shuts down more than 50 illegal coal mines every year; those who are running them (local gov't or private citizen) face hefty jail terms; and those responsible for mines that have accidents resulting in death generally get a death sentence themselves. But as fast as the national government shuts them down, locals open up new ones.

I am not aware at all of the Chinese government denying safety problems or deaths in Chinese mines; quite the opposite, most of the mining tragedies are reported quite widely in the Chinese media, as are efforts to shut down illegal mining operations. What the Chinese government DOES claim -- with what I'd consider to be a fair degree of veracity -- is that most of the dangerous mines are the illegal ones; and that in legal mines, measures are being implemented to make them more safe. No, they're not as safe as a mine in Canada might be...but they're safer than a mine in Canada 50 or 75 years ago would have been.

* In China, it is illegal to use ultrasound for the purposes of determining the gender of a baby, and illegal for a doctor to reveal any information about the gender of a baby -- in order to stop the practice of aborting female fetuses in order to have male children. However, in many rural areas, such activities go on quite regularly anyway...again, often in cooperation with corrupt local officials. And, again, when reported in the media, it is almost always presented as being the policy of (or at least the fault of) the national government to conduct or allow such testing.

In fact, doctors who are caught conducting such tests face imprisonment, as do local government officials who allow them. But the desire for male children is still so very strong in local communities, and people are so terribly poor, that corruption is still prevalent, and there are always more people willing to break the rules.

Again, I'm not trying to paint China as a paradise, or claim that the Chinese government does not have serious problems and issues. Only to achieve a balanced perspective on the issues at hand.
 
Literally not a paragraph there that I disagree with, Wolfman.

But, to take it farther, this is the challenge the government hasn't elected to address. It's not simply a question of rampant capitalism taking advantage of lax inspection and policing, it's the fact that, in many instances, the government only takes up the cause when forced into it by public pressure. The great thing is that a lot of that pressure is coming from within, now. They can no longer have their previous cavalier attitude towards their own population.

Simply, they need to turn back some of that mass of foreign exchange credits into the ability to police these issues (and into healthcare and human services). I know that most coal mines that have had disasters are illegally operated, but the will to catch them hasn't been there in the past. Local officials are too easily corrupted, as you know. Far too often, appointment to an inspector's job is the road to riches.

I've been going back and forth to China since '86 (and living on its edge for five years). I agree that the changes have been astonishing. Not just in the commercial sector but in the lifestyle and freedom. Do they have a long way to go? Yes. Is it as bad as Fox News would have you believe? Not by a long shot!
 
Foolmewunz,

And not much I can find to disagree with in what you said, either...dammit! ;)

Public opinion IS starting to have a very significant impact on government policy, particularly in regards to cracking down on abuses that were previously ignored. And there is probably no tool that has been more important for this change than the internet.

Despite gov't attempts to control/censor the net, the younger generation of Chinese are incredibly internet savvy. Reports about events and abuses fly all over the net far faster than the gov't can keep track. Urban Chinese today are more informed and aware of what is happening in their country than ever before. The "official" media is not at all an indicator of what information the Chinese people actually get.

One of my favorite stories of such change: several years ago, there was a woman married to a local government official. He found another woman that he wanted to marry, but didn't want the "scandal" of a divorce (which looks bad on a Communist party member's record); so in the middle of the night, he and some colleagues went into her room, held her down, and poured acid on her face and down her throat, intending to kill her and blame it on some nameless intruder.

But although it disfigured her terribly, it didn't kill her. She reported it to the police...but they were controlled by the local gov't, including her husband, and ignored her. She then took the case to a local court, but despite overwhelming evidence, the court ruled in her husband's favor every time. She went to Beijing to appeal for help, but little attention was paid to her case.

In the past, that would have been the end of the story. But a reporter for the China Youth Daily heard about the case, and wrote a story in the newspaper profiling her plight. Overnight, she became a cause celebre. The Beijing government responded by holding a trial in Beijing (outside the local official's sphere of influence), where he was found guilty, and sentenced to death (along with his co-conspirators).

Stories like this are becoming more and more common in China...and the Chinese people ARE starting to recognize the power that they have in influencing gov't policy, even in a non-democratic government. Even more importantly, despite occasional reactionary efforts by the government to control the flow of information, the authorities have come to realize the necessity of such an open flow of information for China's continued growth, and are slowly adapting their own policies and practices to allow for it.
 
I read the story in the Times. Another story about China I was seeing on TV here in Japan was about this new state-owned fake Disneyland in Beijing. They didn't make any effort to invent new characters at all, but basically cloned all the Disney characters as well as some Japanese characters like Hello Kitty and Doraemon.
chinese-disneyland.jpg
 
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Puppycow said:
I read the story in the Times. Another story about China I was seeing on TV here in Japan was about this new state-owned fake Disneyland in Beijing. They didn't make any effort to invent new characters at all, but basically cloned all the Disney characters as well as some Japanese characters like Hello Kitty and Doraemon.
[qimg]http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/05/chinese-disneyland.jpg[/qimg]
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In short they counterfeited Disneyland! Geez.

No apologist for the actions of Chinese businesses can say that the government or authorities are not aware of this.
Why bother asking Disney if they would like to establish a Chinese Disneyland. Why bother asking Disney if they would license a Chinese version to a Chinese company. Heck why bother asking anybody anything, just do it.
 
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SteveGrenard said:
In short they counterfeited Disneyland! Geez.

No apologist for the actions of Chinese businesses can say that the government or authorities are not aware of this.
Why bother asking Disney if they would like to establish a Chinese Disneyland. Why bother asking Disney if they would license a Chinese version to a Chinese company. Heck why bother asking anybody anything, just do it.
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I haven't seen that it's actually state-owned. But aren't we being a little melodramatic? I say we take 'em out and shoot 'em!

The Chinese attitude towards this sort of thing is "Hey, they're popular characters, let's put them in the park...." As soon as Disney makes a complaint, the costumes will disappear. Wanna bet?

The characters are the biggest offense. The castle? Maybe Mad King Ludwig ought to sue Disney. There are castles of one sort or another in attractions all over Asia (and the world)... fake castles, just like Disney's castles. Frankly the one in the park doesn't look so much like Cinderella's castle as others I've seen in the west.

The whole park consists of about seven rides. In their own website they use the Disney characters blatantly.
http://www.bs-amusement-park.com/

It's been there since 2005. The "articles" on it are all blog and forum posts. Not coincidental that the furor arises in Japan. Japan and China have sub-communities bashing each other on the web all the time.


The reasons it goes away when Disney complains?
1. Disney sources hundreds of millions of dollars worth of goods in China. Would they turn them out to India, Viet Nam, and Indonesia?
2. 2008 - the Olympics - they're cleaning up counterfeit in the stores, already. They won't let this stand.
3. Disney has been in negotiations to open a Mainland park for a couple of years. They're likely a little reluctant, though, because they already have one here and it's not doing so well.
 
SteveGrenard said:
In short they counterfeited Disneyland! Geez.

No apologist for the actions of Chinese businesses can say that the government or authorities are not aware of this.
Why bother asking Disney if they would like to establish a Chinese Disneyland. Why bother asking Disney if they would license a Chinese version to a Chinese company. Heck why bother asking anybody anything, just do it.
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Hmmmm...am I an "apologist for the actions of Chinese businesses"? And have I (or anyone else) anywhere argued here that the government or authorities are UNAWARE of it?

Dude, the Chinese gov't and authorities are MORE than aware of it, don't think there's ANYONE claiming otherwise. Hell, you have DVD stores here the size of a Blockbuster Video store, selling nothing but pirated DVDs. You have giant clothing markets that sell nothing but fake brand-name products.

I am in an EXCELLENT position to respond to this article: not only am I living in Beijing, but A) three years ago I was Vice-General Manager helping to establish the Beijing World Carnival (another amusement park) in Beijing, and B) one of my best friends works for an organization that specifically lobbies for stronger copyright and trademark protections in China.

First, the Shijingshan Amusement Park is a piddly little place that would better be described as a poor quality fair ground. The rides are crap, and there's almost nothing there. So reason one why Disney isn't pushing too hard on this is that nobody -- the government OR Disney -- really cares, compared to other much more significant issues.

Second, as my friend frequently comments, a competent general knows how to pick their battles. Leave Shijingshan Park alone, it'll go out of business within a few years anyway, as other much better amusement parks open up. The government knows this, Disney knows this, etc. So rather than embarking on a time and money-consuming battle which would also garner bad PR for Disney in China, Disney's strategy has been to get involved with the licensing of NEW amusement parks in China. When we set up the Beijing World Carnival, there were extensive approval procedures that we had to go through with the Chinese government; and included in the inspections were representatives of Disney, who checked everything out and determined it didn't infringe on any of their rights.

Third -- and this may come as something of a shock to some people -- but China has a number of issues that are far more serious, and deserve far more attention, than issues like this one. The Chinese gov't has spent massive amounts on education in China -- proportionately, they dedicate more of their budget to education than the U.S. does -- but there are still very serious issues, especially in remote areas of China. If YOU were a government leader here, which do YOU think you'd be more concerned about -- spending money for your own nation's children to get a better education? Or spending money so that some foreign company can make more money?

Yeah, this situation needs to change. And it is changing, slowly. Hey, I own my own business here, and have had to face the frustration of people copying and stealing from me, as well. I've lost profits myself as a result. But pragmatically speaking, that is one of the costs of doing business in China. And I'll tell you, for all the problems, for all the inefficiencies, for all the corruption, foreign companies (including Disney) are making a killing in China...and more are coming every day.

That is the essence of capitalism, is it not? Supply vs. demand? Making profits? If this problem were really so terrible, if it was really hurting the foreign companies (like Disney) so much, they wouldn't be coming to China. But quite the opposite is true. Yeah, China's gov't is still Communist...but on a day-to-day level, China is one of the most capitalist countries on the face of this planet.
 
Dumb question. Why in the world is the USA importing something that is almost food from China of all places?
 
joe1347 said:
Dumb question. Why in the world is the USA importing something that is almost food from China of all places?
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I think you've hit on a new ad slogan.... Wheat Gluten! Why it's almost food!

And what Darat said.... for the same reason they import everything else from China... Buy cheap, make more profits. Then when everyone else learns how to buy cheap to make more profits... Buy cheap, survive.
 
On plagiarism: In my (limited) experience, the crack-down on plagiarism in China is mainly complaint-driven. If a foreign trade-mark owner complains, the authorities react, otherwise they ignore it. I suppose this has two reasons:

- Capacity. They have plenty on their hands without embarging on an all-out effort.

- Pragmatism. As long as nobody complains, why miss the money?

Things may have changed, but at a market in Beijing, a couple of years ago, all the stands with watches had Cartier replicas displayed openly, but no Rolexes. If you asked about Rolexes (my colleague was very interested in watches), they would, after a quick glance around, produce them from under the counter.

NorthFace jacket replicas had the brand-name covered by Helly Hansen labels (easily removed).

My conclusion is that some of the companies had raised a fuss, others hadn't. And if you want to have the Chinese authorities crack down on abuses of your trade-mark, your first step should be to file a complaint.

This may change as Chinese themselves become concerned about plagiarism. Original brand-names are coming in fashion (and they are more expensive than in the West), so suddenly Chinese consumers are among the ones being cheated.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
My conclusion is that some of the companies had raised a fuss, others hadn't. And if you want to have the Chinese authorities crack down on abuses of your trade-mark, your first step should be to file a complaint.
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That's exactly what happened. About two years ago, a group of companies decided that instead of trying to face such issues individually, they would create a lobby group to work on behalf of all of them.

The then hired Pinkerton detectives to do an extensive, six month investigation of counterfeit products of these companies. Not just who was selling them, but who was making them.

Then, as a whole -- and with all these companies together, they really wielded significant bargaining power -- they went to the Chinese gov't. They didn't just say, "People are copying our products, find out the information about it and stop it". They said, "Here is the concrete information on who is making counterfeit products, and where/how these products are being sold. We want it stopped immediately."

As a result, the gov't raided a number of factories, and shops where these products were being sold. Today, as Hans states, counterfeit products of THOSE specific companies are rather hard to find. But counterfeits belonging to other companies are still found everywhere.

Another quick point here...actually, some "counterfeits" aren't counterfeits at all. They are, in fact, the real thing. What happens is that a foreign company sets up factories to manufacture their product; then the Chinese manager shifts perhaps 5% of the inventory out the back door, and sells it himself at significantly cheaper prices. If you know where to go, and who to talk to, you can get a wide variety of high quality, legitimate goods at very cheap prices.

Not arguing that the Chinese gov't's policies (or lack thereof) in this regard are CORRECT; only to point out that there are ways to deal with it, but you have to take more direct, aggressive action yourself. Just submitting a complaint to the gov't, and expecting them to act on it, is not likely to yield much result at all.
 
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