Firefighters - molten steel and molten metal

Panoply_Prefect

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Panoply_Prefect
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Hi!

I was wondering, cts often quote firefighters who saw "molten steel" in the rubble pile at GZ (and use it as an evidence of thermite, bombs, small tactical nukes, whatever).

Now, it is, until proven otherwise, my firm belief that they say "molten steel" because that is one of the first things that jump to mind when watching silvery metal flowing, running or whatever.

Hence my question:

Has anyone during the six years since 911 asked any firefighter if they, when they said they saw "molten steel", ment exactly "molten steel" and not "molten metal"? And if so, how they came to that conlusion?

Perhaps this is a question that should really be posted at LC or some CT board, but firstly I dont fancy registering at yet another board and secondly Im sure that if such interview has surfaced, someone here would know.

Cheers,
SLOB
 
You will never, ever see a troofer track down and interview any of the firefighters they claim saw bombs, molten steel, were told that WTC 7 was going to be a CD and thus everyone needed to get away, etc etc.

Reasons range from not wanting their cherry-picked quotes shattered before their eyes to not wanting their teeth shattered before their eyes.
 
SLOB said:
Has anyone during the six years since 911 asked any firefighter if they, when they said they saw "molten steel", ment exactly "molten steel" and not "molten metal"? And if so, how they came to that conlusion?
Click to expand...

I have. My brother-in-law was an FDNY firefighter who arrived after the collapse of 1 & 2 (it was his day off) and worked on the pile for the next few months. He said the ongoing fires were caused by burning debris: wood, plastic, carpet, wall board etc. combined with all sorts of flamable liquids. Most of the fires were in holes that were difficult to get to.

It is my understanding that there is ZERO reports of "molten steel" by any member of the FDNY. I seem to recall that one of these reports was made by a medical doctor and other by a rescue dog handler.
 
I got the following:

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New York firefighters recall “heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.” [New York Post, 3/3/2004]
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As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O’Toole sees a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, “was dripping from the molten steel.” [Knight Ridder, 5/29/2002]
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Source.

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X5F5PttzJY
 
I think "molten steel" is simply a term that many people would use to describe any sort of moltel metal.
 
The Knight Ridder article mentions the firefighter's name and that he worked in the Bronx. I'd think it would be a major coup for the CTers to get his statement on film. I wonder why they didn't try to contact him to verify his story.
 
That would entail getting out of Mom's basement and actually going and doing some actual research. This is anathema to most twoofers.

Say what you will about The PentaCon, Lyte and Merc did get off their butts and go do some actual research. They screwed it up severely, and drew wildly erroneous conclusions, but at least they made the effort.
 
jhunter1163 said:
That would entail getting out of Mom's basement and actually going and doing some actual research. This is anathema to most twoofers.

Say what you will about The PentaCon, Lyte and Merc did get off their butts and go do some actual research. They screwed it up severely, and drew wildly erroneous conclusions, but at least they made the effort.
Click to expand...

I asked Lyte why he didn't just pop into a few Metro D.C. firehouses and ask some questions, no appointment needed. Of course he didn't for the same reason the conspiracy liars won't confront members of the FDNY, fear they'll get their a$$es kicked.
 
I kinda agree with JH though. Lyte may have incredibly crap analytical skills, but he did get off his arse and try speaking to people. I sort of grudgingly respect that. It's just the other 99% of his work I ridicule him for.

I suppose it's a bit like competing in Eurovision. At least pishy wee countries like Slovenia turn up. But they're still pish.
 
Architect said:
I kinda agree with JH though. Lyte may have incredibly crap analytical skills, but he did get off his arse and try speaking to people. I sort of grudgingly respect that. It's just the other 99% of his work I ridicule him for.
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I couldn't respect him for that either. I saw him post over MySpace saying that he went around interviewing people because "they wanted to be proven wrong". In other words, they weren't looking for evidence on their behalf, but evidence that went against the official story. That would explain the expectation of using half a dozen witnesses over the vast majority and physical evidence.

Merc isn't any better. I asked him about Flight 77, and his response was along the lines of "I don't know what happened to it and I don't have to prove anything"
 
I did stumble across some pictures a little bit ago- and the photographer claims that these are pieces of molten metal from GZ. It appears to be in some kind of museum or memorial, but I have no details.

I wonder if Gravy, or some other New Yorker would recognize these:

http://picasaweb.google.com/JennieHowell/Fuzzlover/photo#5045321084181296018
"A piece of molten metal recovered from the rubble of the 9/11 attacks"

http://picasaweb.google.com/JennieHowell/Fuzzlover/photo#5045319241640325970
"A chunk of melted metal and glass found in the rubble after the 9/11 attacks"
 
In regards to the "molten steel"...

One thing always sticks out for me. Every account talks about pulling steel beams from the pile. Now the obvious problem here is you can't have a "molten steel beam". You can have a molten steel puddle. That's about it. The second is, you'd have a hard time pulling either a molten steel beam or puddle out of anything.

The only video we have is workers pulling a glowing beam out of the pile. The very fact that it's a beam and they can pull it out demonstrates it is not molten at all. What it is, is very very hot. But molten? No.

As the people at Protec pointed out, were any construction vehicle to actually attempt to scoop up molten steel, the hydraulics would instantly fail, the moving parts would fuse, and the operator's safety would immediately be put at grave risk.

-Gumboot
 
Totovader said:
I did stumble across some pictures a little bit ago- and the photographer claims that these are pieces of molten metal from GZ. It appears to be in some kind of museum or memorial, but I have no details.

I wonder if Gravy, or some other New Yorker would recognize these:

http://picasaweb.google.com/JennieHowell/Fuzzlover/photo#5045321084181296018
"A piece of molten metal recovered from the rubble of the 9/11 attacks"

http://picasaweb.google.com/JennieHowell/Fuzzlover/photo#5045319241640325970
"A chunk of melted metal and glass found in the rubble after the 9/11 attacks"
Click to expand...

The lack of ferric oxide in these photos is the first thing i notice. The second thing i notice is the glass. Im not sure, but isn't the melting point of glass below that of construction steel? It's hard to determine the scale in these pictures, but they look to be less than a foot in length. Toto, do you know how big these pieces measured?
 
3bodyproblem said:
The lack of ferric oxide in these photos is the first thing i notice. The second thing i notice is the glass. Im not sure, but isn't the melting point of glass below that of construction steel? It's hard to determine the scale in these pictures, but they look to be less than a foot in length. Toto, do you know how big these pieces measured?
Click to expand...

No clue- I don't even see a reference point for them.
 
I'd feel pretty confident saying those were aluminium. If they're steel, someone has cleaned them and possibly polished them. Which is pretty odd, really.

-Gumboot
 
In 40 years of firefighting I've seen plenty of molten metal- none of which was steel. (We don't have any blast furnaces in these parts.). And when we've used excavators during cleanup we've had to be VERY careful not to let them grab hold of anything really hot. (As referenced elsewhere on this thread.) So, no, you'll never see an excavator grab on to anything molten - Hey, it's molten- how do you pick up anything like that?

But here's a real life example of both molten and non-molten metal. (Let me assure everyone it's NOT from any part of the events of 9/11.) Clearly any Troofer would have a field day with this photo- molten metal melted around some kind of metal that is unscathed. How can that be? And what mysterious force snapped that I-beam? (Wasn't thermite or a directed energy weapon!)

Just an example that given the right circumstances strange things can happen with no need for an elaborate conspiracy.
 

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Totovader said:
I did stumble across some pictures a little bit ago- and the photographer claims that these are pieces of molten metal from GZ. It appears to be in some kind of museum or memorial, but I have no details.

I wonder if Gravy, or some other New Yorker would recognize these:

http://picasaweb.google.com/JennieHowell/Fuzzlover/photo#5045321084181296018
"A piece of molten metal recovered from the rubble of the 9/11 attacks"

http://picasaweb.google.com/JennieHowell/Fuzzlover/photo#5045319241640325970
"A chunk of melted metal and glass found in the rubble after the 9/11 attacks"
Click to expand...

Poking through that person's album I found these also:

Something that went BOOM

Non-molten but rusted metal

A lump of metal referred to as pocket change, fused or melted
 
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The no-plane wing of the Inside Job movement are busily trying to debunk "molten metal" in order to discredit Steve Jones, and you can see their latest efforts at http://www.911researchers.com/node/147 . Nothing particularly new, but it's interesting to see how they can apply critical thinking occasionally.
 
It amazes me how blind Truthers are to the way fire and heat can, under certain circumstances, ravage seemingly impervious metal.

I often ask people who bring this stuff up if it's possible to melt a cast iron wood stove using only wood. Of course I always get these "of course not," "it's impossible" or "only a retard would think you can" type of responses.

Then I proceed to tell them the great story of how I once actually did accomplish this feat, accidentally. Several years ago I stoked up a nice fire on a cold snowy northern California night (yes it does snow here, a lot actually) and unknowingly included, amongst the seasoned oak, a piece of manzanita wood. A piping hot fire, lots of preexisting coals, and a low oxygen environment were combined and the result was a red hot crumpled up mass of cast iron that I sold for scrap metal.
 
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