Debunking Pinnochio's Nose

Dave Rogers

Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
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Introduction

Truthseeker1234 (Ace Baker) has claimed that the film of flight 175 striking the South Tower is a real-time digital fake produced by superimposing a digital video of a flying airliner on a live video feed of the tower using the WESCAM system. He has claimed as evidence the feature he refers to as "Pinnochio's Nose", stating the following rationale (which I shall refer to as the video superimposition hypothesis):

The only video which showed the "plane" hit live was the helicopter shot in the upper left of "The Hole That Wasn't There" graphic. They overlayed a CGI plane on to real video using the WESCAM system (the same one that inserts 1st down stripes on football fields). They screwed up, and the nose of the plane came through the other side. We call this "Pinocchio's Nose". They quickly cut to black, but it was too late.

TruthSeeker1234 posted an animated GIF on this forum which shows a clip of 30 frames from this video as evidence for his claim. I have done some quite trivially simple analysis on this video clip, and it shows that the clip is not consistent with the video superimposition hypothesis.


The video clip

The airliner enters the clip at frame 2 from the right, crossing the field of view to the left. Its nose strikes the tower between frames 5 and 6. The tail is not in shot until frame 8, and vanishes into the tower between frames 11 and 12. Nothing more is visible until frame 21, at which point the feature referred to as "Pinnochio's Nose" emerges from the left side of the tower. This feature moves to the left, followed by what appears to be a faster-moving fireball emerging from the tower, until the clip fades to black. The final visible frame is frame 30, in which my (admittedly subjective) impression is that "Pinnochio's Nose" appears to be falling slightly.


Measurements

In all the analysis that follows I have made no assumptions about the precise direction of movement of the plane or the orientation of the tower. Instead, I have chosen to work with the projection of the velocity vector and the visible side of the tower onto a vertical plane passing through the point of impact. This is a valid approximation assuming that the viewpoint of the video is distant from the tower by a large amount compared with the distances travelled by the airliner in the clip. At all points to follow, terms such as "speed" and "length" should be taken to mean projections of the related vectors on to such a plane, although the simpler terms will be used for clarity.

The width of the nearest face of the tower is approximately 195 pixels.

Although the entire airliner is never visible, I have estimated its length at 134 pixels, based on the following measurements:
Nose to leading edge of engine (from frame 5): 50 pixels.
Leading edge of engine to base of tail (from frame 7): 67 pixels.
Base of tail to upper trailing edge of tail (from frame 9): 17 pixels.

The nose and tail of the airliner can each be seen in four frames (nose, frames 2-5; tail, frames 8-11). Using the nearer edge of the tower as a reference line, I have determined the rate of movement of the airliner in pixels per frame. As this is a differential measurement, I obtained three values from each set of four measurements. Results are 28, 25, 26, 30, 23, 25; average is 26 pixels per frame.

"Pinnochio's Nose" appears in frames 21 to 30, and from these frames I have obtained nine values for the rate of movement in pixels/frame. Results are 10, 5, 8, 6, 5, 5, 4, 5, 8; average is 6.5 pixels per frame.

All these measurements are based on subjective assessments of the absolute position of a feature on a poor quality, low resolution digital image, which accounts for the large random errors observed. However, from the variation in speed measurements I would estimate errors in speed of no more than plus-or-minus 3 pixels/frame, and in position of no more than plus-or-minus 5 pixels.


Discussion

Ace Baker's hypothesis, as I understand it, is that a digital video was superimposed on the live feed, masked such that the airliner and the tower would not overlap, but was accidentally allowed to continue running until the nose of the airliner appeared on the other side. If this is correct, we would expect the speed of the airliner to be unchanged as it passed through the tower. Using measurements from frames 1-11, we can therefore predict the movement of the airliner and determine two key features we expect to see in the remainder of the clip: the specific frame in which we would expect the airliner to emerge, and the speed in pixels per frame at which it should emerge.

The nose of the airliner is first seen 100 pixels from the nearer edge of the tower in frame 2. Projecting the position of the nose forward in time, it can be shown that we would therefore expect to see the nose exit the tower, 295 pixels distant, at frame 14, at which time it would project by 17 pixels. We would expect the tail to exit the tower at frame 19, after which the entire airliner would again be visible on the far side of the tower. This is based on the average speed of the airliner (26 pixels/frame); if we take the lower bound figure, 23 pixels/frame, and assume that all errors in position are additive (giving an overall 10 pixel error), the nose would be expected to exit at frame 15 and the tail at frame 21. In the actual clip, it is not until frame 21 that any object is seen to exit the left side of the tower, and nothing in any way resembling the tail of an airliner is seen to exit the tower in any frame up to and including frame 30. The observed time of exit therefore contradicts the video superimposition hypothesis.

It would further be expected that the plane exit the tower at the same speed as it entered. However, the speed of the plane entering the tower (26 pixels/frame) is four times that of the visible object exiting the tower at frame 21 (6.5 pixels/frame), again contrary to what would be expected from the video superimposition hypothesis.

Both these observations are, however, consistent with the more conventional analysis, which is that the object exiting the tower from frame 21 onwards is a cloud of debris originating from the airliner but broken into small fragments by its passage through the tower. In particular, the deceleration is to be expected, as is the appearance in frame 30 that the trajectory of the debris is beginning to curve downwards under gravity.


Conclusion

The movement of the incoming airliner and of the object subsequently exiting the tower in the 30-frame clip posted by Ace Baker in this forum clearly contradicts his claim that this video was produced by overlaying a pre-recorded video on a live video feed using the WESCAM system. The video clip is fully consistent with the impact of an airliner on one of the WTC towers and the subsequent ejection of debris from the opposite face of the tower.

Dave
 
Good stuff, David Rogers!
Now, see, CT'ers! That's how you do it. State your assumptions and references for baseline data. Calculate based on that.
I make it about 8.5 frames to cross the measured tower width. This is within 15% of the actual aircraft speed, but since since I don't know frame rate or distance exactly, it is very good. Thank you.
 
Very good work Dave.

Purely from a logical perspective, there’s also a fairly frivolous bit of circular reasoning in the “Pinocchio’s nose” theory. The second video that contains this phenomenon (the one showing the object disintegrating into a cloud of wreckage and flames in exactly the sort of way you’d expect an amalgam of building debris, plane fragments and jet fuel to) is explained away in terms of the first video having been falsified. In other words, one needs to accept that the first video was falsified in order to explain away the potentially theory-refuting evidence contained in the second.
 
Good points. I had noticed some of those discrepancies (especially the speed difference before and after) while examining the individual frames enlarged for my inconsequential but amusing investigation into the "Could Ace Baker be so low, not to mention so laughably feckless, as to post a challenge to answer a question correctly and then attempt to lie about the right answer when it can be verified by anyone?" issue. But I'm glad you quantified them.

I think as far as the video superposition theory is concerned, this is way too late to be the final nail in the coffin; it's already been buried, dug up, renaimated as zombie, decapitated with shotgun, cremated, buried again, came back as ghost, and exorcized, and this work represents the "dig up the ashes, mix them with holy water, form into a mudpie, and drop into the Crack of Doom" stage.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Am I alone in finding the term "Pinnochio's Nose" for an ejection of debris which in all likelihood contains the mangled body parts of innocent victims extremely offensive?
 
Truthseeker1234 (Ace Baker) has claimed that the film of flight 175 striking the South Tower is a real-time digital fake produced by superimposing a digital video of a flying airliner on a live video feed of the tower using the WESCAM system.


I just want to point out that WESCAM doesn't do what TS thinks it does, and frankly I'm baffled as to where he got the notion from.

WESCAM is a particular Canadian Company that makes gyro-stabilised camera mounts for use in aircraft. They were the first company to develop this technology, thus these systems are commonly referred to as Wescam Systems, even when produced by a different company. It's very much in the vein of STEADICAM - another specialised piece of gripping equipment.

To propose that WESCAM is used to superimpose graphics onto images (a process called compositing) is as nonsensical as proposing that a camera crane or a tripod is used to superimpose graphics onto images.

Indeed, a Wescam System does not even have a camera at all - it is a mount for fixing a camera to. You can attach any camera you like to it, and it does not have to have a live feed being broadcast to a news channel.

-Gumboot
 
I just want to point out that WESCAM doesn't do what TS thinks it does, and frankly I'm baffled as to where he got the notion from.



I've heard the term used by other twoofers, so he probably picked it up from them. I don't know much about camera systems, so I don't know the names of any of them, but what they want to say, but are failing, is the name of whatever system it is that overlays the "first down" lines on football fields during live games. Does anyone know the name (if there is one!) of this system?

Of course, they completely ignore the fact that putting a straight, stationary single colour line on an image of a field that has lines already on it, using a camera in a known, fixed position, would be just a wee bit easier than superimposing a multicolour, moving image on a cityscape backbround, when the camera and its platform are both moving.

But hey, what do I know?
 
Yeah they're talking about compositing, which is done in the studio control room.

As you say, the situations are totally different, the main thing being a fixed camera position and basic imagery.

-Gumboot
 
To Dave Rogers, great job.

However, it's overkill -- the whole CT argument makes no sense at all. I cannot possibly comprehend a vast conspiracy relying on this illusion and then trying to reconstruct it in real time, from ON-BOARD a HELICOPTER?? Are you nuts? (Rhetorical question, that.) Obviously the whole darn scene would have been shot ahead of time, critiqued, dry-run, and carefully monitored to make sure the right thing was playing well before the crucial moment, not hashed together with leftover announcer tools from NFL games. Sheesh!

Those Troothers, man. Just never know when to quit, do they?
 
I suppose Ace hasn't seen this thread, since he just loves getting into analytical detail. Oh, wait, but he's been on the Forums since the OP was posted......

I guess he's getting help from "WE", whomever the "we" are. He keeps mentioning them. I guess it's him and Judy.....

Today, 07:19 AM #327
TruthSeeker1234
Graduate Poster
 
To Dave Rogers, great job.

Those Troothers, man. Just never know when to quit, do they?



And it's another example of the amazing capable, yet fundamentally stupid conspirators. They come up with this ridiculous plan, and yet, the camera operator is so good, that when things go wrong, he can spot the problem, realize what it is, come up with a solution, and implement that solution, all in about a quarter second.

If he's that damn good, why did he agree to the Fundementally Stupid Plan in the first place?

:boggled:
 
If he's that damn good, why did he agree to the Fundementally Stupid Plan in the first place?

Sheesh, Horatius. MONEY! Obviously, anyone offered 50,000 USD to cover-up the murder of 3000 civilians would jump with both feet on this opportunity to finish the repairs on his or her house. Or even better, send the kids to college! Think about it! NO ONE would refuse that kind of money when they start thinking about the children.

Why do you hate children, Horatius ?
 
Thanks for the feedback - a few further comments.

WESCAM is a particular Canadian Company that makes gyro-stabilised camera mounts for use in aircraft. They were the first company to develop this technology, thus these systems are commonly referred to as Wescam Systems, even when produced by a different company. It's very much in the vein of STEADICAM - another specialised piece of gripping equipment.

To propose that WESCAM is used to superimpose graphics onto images (a process called compositing) is as nonsensical as proposing that a camera crane or a tripod is used to superimpose graphics onto images.

My bad, I should have looked up WESCAM, but it never occurred to me that it might be something completely unrelated to what a conspiracy theorist said it was. I can be so naive sometimes. Is there a special name for the apparatus/software/whatever that puts the first down lines on the football coverage?

Am I alone in finding the term "Pinnochio's Nose" for an ejection of debris which in all likelihood contains the mangled body parts of innocent victims extremely offensive?

A very good point. A few times while I was counting pixels it occurred to me exactly what I was looking at a picture of, not exactly a pleasant feeling. The only consolation was the thought that it must have been quick, and I now have a feel for exactly how quick.:(

I think as far as the video superposition theory is concerned, this is way too late to be the final nail in the coffin; it's already been buried, dug up, renaimated as zombie, decapitated with shotgun, cremated, buried again, came back as ghost, and exorcized, and this work represents the "dig up the ashes, mix them with holy water, form into a mudpie, and drop into the Crack of Doom" stage.

Yes, I rather got the feeling I was flogging an undead horse. What I found either amusing or disturbing - I'm not sure which - is this: I used no special software or analytical techniques, just screen captures to select out the individual frames, Microsoft Paint to count the pixels, and Excel to do the arithmetic. Nothing particularly clever. Anyone with the most basic computer and software could have done it, yet the people who are putting forward this whole cockeyed theory never bothered. It shows an extraordinary lack of critical thinking - not that that's news either.

Dave
 
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I've heard the term used by other twoofers, so he probably picked it up from them. I don't know much about camera systems, so I don't know the names of any of them, but what they want to say, but are failing, is the name of whatever system it is that overlays the "first down" lines on football fields during live games. Does anyone know the name (if there is one!) of this system?


I posted a little about this on the other thread -- there are YouTube videos out there (such as this maddening one) which make the claim that WESCAM is some kind of compositing system, and further, since WESCAM parent L-3 Communications endeavors to sell the system to the military for combat imagining, that proves that WESCAM is "military technology".

The system used for the "first down" lines is called 1st & Ten and is made by Sportvision, a producer of various sports TV graphics products that doesn't appear to have anything to do with L-3. It's a complicated system to use that requires precise 3D models of each stadium's field, along with data about the exact camera locations, along with several different computer systems and a truck full of technicians at the stadium; it's not a little video game you can play with your WESCAM camera controls in your news chopper.
 
The system used for the "first down" lines is called 1st & Ten and is made by Sportvision, a producer of various sports TV graphics products that doesn't appear to have anything to do with L-3. It's a complicated system to use that requires precise 3D models of each stadium's field, along with data about the exact camera locations, along with several different computer systems and a truck full of technicians at the stadium; it's not a little video game you can play with your WESCAM camera controls in your news chopper.



And it needs all that to put a fixed line on a fixed field, using a fixed camera.


Perfectly adequate for what Ace-baby proposes!

;)
 
Now I find myself wondering where the notion that WESCAM is a composite effects system originated. Did some CTist just knowingly make it up out of nowhere (ex posteriori, as it were), or was it an honest misunderstanding of something someone read somewhere? (The latter is not too unlikely given the level of reading-comprehension skill CTists have demonstrated.)
 
Sorry to have been scarce. My laptop has died completely, it will be about a week before I am able to rebuild it. Currently I have almost no software and my internet access is limited.

During the short time yesterday that I had my machine back, I began a study of Pinocchio's nose that should prove very instructive. It involves analyzing the velocity of the plane frame by frame, then repeating the exercise after stabilizing the picture.

The OP is correct on several observations. The plane certainly does not continue through the building at the same velocity. Once the "nose" or "debris" exits the building, it certainly is moving much more slowly than was the plane prior to entering the building.

This does not prove that the plane was real. I'll have a lot more to say next post.

It is also correct that the Wescam system is not the real time overlay system used on football games. This error comes from several researchers, and we are correcting that. It is a minor point. Chroma key overlay has been available since the 1960's, and sophisticated systems which are able to compensate for camera movement in real time were available pre-2001.

Whether the overlay system was on board the helicopter (certainly possible), or at the studio is a bit of a minor point. More later, must go.
 
Well, even if you did manage to show that falsification is a possible characteristic of the video, the real question you would need to answer is why it is epistemologically preferable to think falsification is a characteristic of the video.
 
Sorry to have been scarce. My laptop has died completely, it will be about a week before I am able to rebuild it. Currently I have almost no software and my internet access is limited.

During the short time yesterday that I had my machine back, I began a study of Pinocchio's nose that should prove very instructive.


It is doubtful that any study of your latest fantasy will prove instructive to any rational person.
Absolutely nothing is capable of instructing you.


It involves analyzing the velocity of the plane frame by frame, then repeating the exercise after stabilizing the picture.

The OP is correct on several observations. The plane certainly does not continue through the building at the same velocity.




An important point. There were so many experts who really felt that the plane's crashing into the building and being totally destroyed did not affect its velocity. Excellent work, Ace.




Once the "nose" or "debris" exits the building, it certainly is moving much more slowly than was the plane prior to entering the building.


Your ability to generate such insights is what sets you apart from the rest of us.



This does not prove that the plane was real. I'll have a lot more to say next post.



Yes, proof of the plane's reality is lacking. You managed to dismiss the thousands of eyewitnesses very adroitly. Oh, you didn't dismiss them at all? Well, that's just a minor detail.



It is also correct that the Wescam system is not the real time overlay system used on football games. This error comes from several researchers, and we are correcting that.



Not to be indelicate, but regarding that "we," is any member of the team not mentally ill?



It is a minor point. Chroma key overlay has been available since the 1960's, and sophisticated systems which are able to compensate for camera movement in real time were available pre-2001.

Whether the overlay system was on board the helicopter (certainly possible), or at the studio is a bit of a minor point. More later, must go.



People here know vastly more about this subject than you do. They are vainly attempting to communicate their knowledge to you. The task is impossible.

You appear to have missed this post:

In other words, the cameraman is part of the IMPOSSIBLY Vast Conspiracy. You love to present inept calculations. I presented a very simple and correct one showing that your imaginary conspiracy cannot possibly exist. The probability that someone, one of the hundreds of actual accomplices or the thousands who have been clubbed into line, would spill the beans approaches 1.

You neglected to comment.
 
Sorry to have been scarce. My laptop has died completely, it will be about a week before I am able to rebuild it. Currently I have almost no software and my internet access is limited.

Heh, heh, my remote laptop disabler device worked!

Oops, I didn't mean to post that.

During the short time yesterday that I had my machine back, I began a study of Pinocchio's nose that should prove very instructive. It involves analyzing the velocity of the plane frame by frame, then repeating the exercise after stabilizing the picture.

The OP is correct on several observations. The plane certainly does not continue through the building at the same velocity. Once the "nose" or "debris" exits the building, it certainly is moving much more slowly than was the plane prior to entering the building.

This does not prove that the plane was real. I'll have a lot more to say next post.

It is also correct that the Wescam system is not the real time overlay system used on football games. This error comes from several researchers, and we are correcting that. It is a minor point. Chroma key overlay has been available since the 1960's, and sophisticated systems which are able to compensate for camera movement in real time were available pre-2001.

Whether the overlay system was on board the helicopter (certainly possible), or at the studio is a bit of a minor point. More later, must go.

Wouldn't it have been easier to just hijack a plane and crash it into the building?
 
Ah yes. I've debated with Holmgren. I'm afraid that the man is a loon.
 



Yes well, but your given link presupposes the existence of a conspiracy. What I have said though, is even if you did manage to show that that falsification is a possible characteristic of the video (or even why “they” might have wanted to employ it, for that matter), the real question you would need to answer is why it is epistemologically preferable to think it is a characteristic of the video.
 
Yes well, but your given link presupposes the existence of a conspiracy. What I have said though, is even if you did manage to show that that falsification is a possible characteristic of the video (or even why “they” might have wanted to employ it, for that matter), the real question you would need to answer is why it is epistemologically preferable to think it is a characteristic of the video.

It is epistemologicaly preferable to to think the video is fake for a number of reasons.

1. The "debris" that exits the opposite side of the building is indistiguishable from the nose of the aircraft. No one has proposed a mechanism by which this could possibly occur.

2. The plane enters the picture within 3 frames after a zoom in, quite a coincidence.

3. The plane does not appear in the wider shot, even though it would have to be there.

4. The video does a quick fade to black immediately after pinocchio's nose appears. As explained ad nauseum, this cannot be the signal cutting out. It is either the output from the helicopter being faded down, or it is the input from the helicopter being faded down on the control room console.

I will present the results of my velocity study when I have them, whatever they may show.
 
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Chroma key overlay has been available since the 1960's, and sophisticated systems which are able to compensate for camera movement in real time were available pre-2001.
Yes, but that's for text and other simple graphical elements. Creating visual effects on the order of making the videos of the aircraft impacts into the towers look as incredibly realistic as they did would require a vastly more sophisticated system.

Take a careful look next time at a football game where the virtual down line is used. It's very good, no doubt, but a good eye will spot the problems which occur when certain combinations of uniform and field lighting reveal definite indistict edges as the players move over the virtual down line.

Video effects, especially real-time ones, cannot yet rival the kinds of effects done by traditional visual effects houses such as ILM, which originally did the effects on film and then composited optically, but are now created and composited digitally and then put onto film. Mind you, even with digital advances, there are still cases where effects are done the old-fashioned way. The Lord of the Rings movie trilogy is a good example of this where traditional perspective tricks and miniatures were used.

For the life of me I can't understand how someone can think the 9/11 aircraft impacts were special effects. They look NOTHING like special effects, and if there's one thing I'm pretty good at, it is spotting special effects. And all visual effects have subtle tell-tale signs which reveal their origin as such.
 
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It is epistemologicaly preferable to to think the video is fake for a number of reasons.

1. The "debris" that exits the opposite side of the building is indistiguishable from the nose of the aircraft. No one has proposed a mechanism by which this could possibly occur.

2. The plane enters the picture within 3 frames after a zoom in, quite a coincidence.

3. The plane does not appear in the wider shot, even though it would have to be there.

4. The video does a quick fade to black immediately after pinocchio's nose appears. As explained ad naseum, this cannot be the signal cutting out. It is either the output from the helicopter being faded down, or it is the input from the helicopter being faded down on the control room console.

I will present the results of my velocity study when I have them, whatever they may show.


Hey, Ace, what about the size of your imaginary conspiracy? Does the fact that it is impossibly large give you any pause whatever? (Of course I'm kidding, you silly goose!)
 
As explained ad nauseum, this cannot be the signal cutting out. It is either the output from the helicopter being faded down, or it is the input from the helicopter being faded down on the control room console.


As explained ad nauseum, you have no idea what you are talking about.

-Gumboot
 
Chroma key overlay has been available since the 1960's, and sophisticated systems which are able to compensate for camera movement in real time were available pre-2001.

Whether the overlay system was on board the helicopter (certainly possible), or at the studio is a bit of a minor point. More later, must go.



In all honesty you should really stop talking about this stuff. You may be a film composer, but you clearly know virtually nothing else about filmmaking or television broadcast.

The scenario you're proposing cannot have been keyed. It's simply not possible.

The bottom line is, what you are proposing - the insertion of a computer generated aircraft into a live broadcast - simply is not possible. It certainly was not possible in 2001.

Your solution also does not explain the hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of people who witnessed UA175 hit WTC2 with their own eyes.

-Gumboot
 
It is epistemologicaly preferable to to think the video is fake for a number of reasons.


There is exactly one reason: to validate your deranged fantasy.




1. The "debris" that exits the opposite side of the building is indistiguishable from the nose of the aircraft. No one has proposed a mechanism by which this could possibly occur.


Blurry photos of debris being ejected fail to show something that is "indistinguishable" from the nose section of a plane. If debris propelled through a building should not take the form it did, what should it look like?


2. The plane enters the picture within 3 frames after a zoom in, quite a coincidence.

3. The plane does not appear in the wider shot, even though it would have to be there.

4. The video does a quick fade to black immediately after pinocchio's nose appears. As explained ad naseum, this cannot be the signal cutting out. It is either the output from the helicopter being faded down, or it is the input from the helicopter being faded down on the control room console.


Instead of wasting time with your fabricated lunacy, why not tell us where Curtis Cameron went wrong?

A Photo Analysis of the Claim that UA Flight 175 Did Not Hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center:
http://911myths.com/Flight175.pdf


I will present the results of my velocity study when I have them, whatever they may show.


You are not a scientist. You do a terrible impersonation of one. You are incompetent to conduct such a study.
 

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