What would you accept as PROOF of a God?

Dustin Kesselberg

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D
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I asked this question in another thread and didn't get any real answers. Here's the question: What would you accept as PROOF of a God?

God being defined as [SIZE=-1]the being conceived originator and ruler of the universe.


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]What would you accept as absolute proof of a God? Proof that can not be explained in any other way but through "God" as I defined him. Miracles, Magic, Prophecies, Visions can all be explained through other means which exclude a "God". So I'm curious what proof any of you who do not believe in a God would accept as proof of a God.


Or do you simply "not know" what is proof but know what isn't?
[/SIZE]
 
Gidday Dustin,

Are you leading up to something with these threads you are starting? We've discussed "proof of a god-like being" in that other thread, and we pretty much finished with it there.

What is your point here? What are you trying to achieve?

Cheers,
TGHO
 
An amputee prays to god and gets his/her missing limb regrown. That would be a nice start.
 
I honestly don't know what would convince me that God exists. Maybe something like in Contact, with messages encoded into the decimal (or base-n) expansion of mathematical or physical constants. There's still a very very slim chance it could be a coincidence, and it's also possible that the author of such a message might not match your definition of "God," but at the very least it would probably convince me that there was an intelligence outside the universe, most likely responsible for creating it.

I think your question is moot, however. If God exists, presumably he already knows what it would take to convince me. If he wants me to believe he exists, he has my number.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
An amputee prays to god and gets his/her missing limb regrown. That would be a nice start.
Click to expand...

Maybe he prays to "God" and it regrows but "God" didn't cause it to regrow. Possibly he has some unconscious supernatural ability to heal himself but he believes "God" did it.
Possibly some other powerful being did it who answered his prayer but isn't "God".
Possibly he is the first person to be able to grow limbs back due to some natural genetic ability.

So that can't be "Proof".
 
Dustin said:
What would you accept as PROOF of a God?
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From deductive logic? Nothing. No such proof is possible.
 
toddjh said:
I honestly don't know what would convince me that God exists. Maybe something like in Contact, with messages encoded into the decimal (or base-n) expansion of mathematical or physical constants. There's still a very very slim chance it could be a coincidence, and it's also possible that the author of such a message might not match your definition of "God," but at the very least it would probably convince me that there was an intelligence outside the universe, most likely responsible for creating it.
Click to expand...

This really won't work either. Unless you can prove it's coming from "Outside of the universe" (which I see no way of doing) and unless you can prove the origin of this message is the creator of the universe (which I see no way of doing) then such a message really proves nothing more than someone intelligent is sending a message from far away. Maybe aliens in this universe. Maybe beings outside of it. But "God"? How would this be proven?

toddjh said:
I think your question is moot, however. If God exists, presumably he already knows what it would take to convince me. If he wants me to believe he exists, he has my number.
Click to expand...

Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Maybe he can't. Maybe he doesn't want to.
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
Maybe he prays to "God" and it regrows but "God" didn't cause it to regrow. Possibly he has some unconscious supernatural ability to heal himself but he believes "God" did it.
Possibly some other powerful being did it who answered his prayer but isn't "God".
Possibly he is the first person to be able to grow limbs back due to some natural genetic ability.

So that can't be "Proof".
Click to expand...

:eek: :boggled: :jaw-dropp
 
Lisa Simpson said:
:eek: :boggled: :jaw-dropp
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Really. Can you think of anything that would convince you of the existence of a God? If some guy praying for a limb to grow back then it growing back convinces you then you must be very credulous given the number of alternatives which are given the circumstances just as likely as a "God" doing it.
 
How about one night, the stars line up and spell out " Jesus Lives"! It doesn't matter what time of year or in which hemisphere, professional and amatuer astronomers would capture the event ad nauseum! It would be the biggest news event ever! That would do it for me!
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
Well what 'evidence' would you accept for a God where the probability that "God" is the only explanation is so vast that any reasonable person would believe in it?
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I'm having trouble thinking of something that you wouldn't dismiss in the same fashion as toddjh and Lisa's examples.

I imagine that if I came into the physical presence of god, it would be pretty darn obvious. So, assuming that god exists, I suppose that if he/she/it physically manifested him/her/itself to me and declared "I am the lord, your god", I would be pretty darn convinced.

But even this could be explained by saying that it was simply E.T. wielding technology sufficiently advanced to be indistinguishable from magic.

Actually, I would find Lisa's example quite compelling.

Maybe you could answer your own question and let us evaluate your criteria of proof?
 
cbish said:
How about one night, the stars line up and spell out " Jesus Lives"! It doesn't matter what time of year or in which hemisphere, professional and amatuer astronomers would capture the event ad nauseum! It would be the biggest news event ever! That would do it for me!
Click to expand...

Yah...that would work for me too.
 
Dustin Kesselberg said:
I asked this question in another thread and didn't get any real answers. Here's the question: What would you accept as PROOF of a God? God being defined as the being conceived originator and ruler of the universe.
Click to expand...

"God" is just a word to express that which IS.

The word used does not in any way change what it IS you are referring to.

Any real discussion is already dead in the water by here 'defining' God, as 'being' before the universe and therefore subject to 'time'.

If, as has been put forward, at the moment of the start of the universe it consisted entirely of pure energy, then God IS Energy, and God IS the universe, and the universe IS energy.
 
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The very definition of god make it unprovable. If it is transcendant to us, to our senses and logic, then by definition we can't prove it. All we have is theses senses and that logic. Something transcendant will never be proven by those means.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
An amputee prays to god and gets his/her missing limb regrown. That would be a nice start.
Click to expand...
While some will say that is not rigorous enough for proof, I am willing to bet that such an event would add to the population of believers. :cool:

DR
 
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