Why is UK popular culture so anti-intellectual?

Moufflon · 13th June 2007, 02:04 PM

Only -- and I can't emphasise that enough -- because I happen to know slightly one of the contestants this year (somthing that seems increasingly likely as the show lurches into its 9 millionth series), I had the misfortune to see Big Brother's Friday show.

It plunged me into deep depression.

Mainly because of Davina's introduction to one of the contestants. He happens to be a Classicist/Art Historian who has published on his subject. Davina couldn't bring herself to finish a single sentence on the subject (I paraphrase): "He's written about - uh - Bronj [sic] Age idols - this is too boring to finish... (babbles)."

I take this to be symptomatic of British culture in general: a professed uninterest in anything much beyond celebrity culture and the pages of Heat magazine.

Why is this?

It seems that other, non-anglophone countries don't have quite the same problem: Greek farmers will debate politics, philosophy, or literature ancient and modern; Syrian labourers the classical poetry of Abu Al-‘ala al-Ma’arri... Or is that a 'grass-is-always-greener' misconception?

I'm not sure it's a class issue as I know many university-educated middle-class Brits who appear to be interested in nothing in particular.

The rant of a geek and snob? Perhaps.

Discuss.

[PS: I'm British myself.]

The Atheist · 13th June 2007, 02:09 PM

You sure you're not just seeing a symptom of pandering to the audience for the program involved?

I doubt many intellectuals watch Big Brother.

Solus · 13th June 2007, 02:10 PM

It's the same in America so don't feel left out. Although I'd say non-intellectual rather than anti-intellectual in America.

Miss Anthrope · 13th June 2007, 02:15 PM

The bar in western popular culture has been dropped so low, you have to follow the rolling sound just to find it on the floor.

Stop watching broadcast TV, and watch on DVD only. Trust me, you'll feel smarter by the end of the week. When I am in a store and see the commercials and the garbage people actually waste their life precious on, I have to wonder what the allure is.

Moufflon · 13th June 2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

You sure you're not just seeing a symptom of pandering to the audience for the program involved?

I doubt many intellectuals watch Big Brother.

Isn't that equally troubling, though? The pandering goes along the lines of "We find anything you do that is remotely academic to be literally too boring for words." Rather than, "That's interesting, let's put the kettle on."
As Solus says, it seems anti-intellectual, rather than merely non-.

Moufflon · 13th June 2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Miss Anthrope

The bar in western popular culture has been dropped so low, you have to follow the rolling sound just to find it on the floor.

Stop watching broadcast TV, and watch on DVD only. Trust me, you'll feel smarter by the end of the week. When I am in a store and see the commercials and the garbage people actually waste their life precious on, I have to wonder what the allure is.

Miss Anthrope,

I agree. I do most of that myself (or hang around on fora!).

I wonder why it's such a problem in the West, though. It seems unrelated to levels of wealth or general education...

Weird and depressing, I find.

Ziggurat · 13th June 2007, 02:34 PM

Want to feel depressed about the state of England? Read some Theodore Dalrymple. I'll start you off with an essay on the subject you raised:
We Don't Want No Education

"I was told of one school where the teachers were allowed by the headmaster to make corrections, but only five per piece of work, irrespective of the number actually present. This, of course, was to preserve the amour propre of the children, but it seemed not to have occurred to this pedagogue that his five correction rule was likely to have unfortunate consequences. The teacher might choose to correct an error in the spelling of a word, for example, and overlook precisely the same error in the next piece of work. How is a child to interpret correction based on this headmaster's principle? The less intelligent, perhaps, will regard it as a species of natural hazard, like the weather, about which he can do very little; while the more intelligent are likely to draw the conclusion that the principle of correction as such is inherently arbitrary and unjust."

Darat · 13th June 2007, 02:34 PM

Looking at what is on the five terrestrial channels at 10pm this coming Friday:

BBC 1:BBC News; Regional News; Weather The latest news and weather. 35 minutes
BBC 2: Balderdash & Piffle 4/8 - X Rated Viewers of a sensitive disposition be…
30 minutes
ITV:(22:30) ITV News; Weather The latest national and international… 30 minutes
C4:Big Brother This year's first evicted housemate l…30 minutes
5: Law and Order: Criminal Intent 23/23 - False Hearted Judges American police drama series that loo… 60 minutes

I don't think that is too bad a selection, two news bulletins, a series about finding antedatings for words in the OED, Big Brother and a USA drama series.

Dr Adequate · 13th June 2007, 02:47 PM

Davina McCall is anti-intellectual, but she's a bit of a special case.

"The first item Davina wanted to rid the world of, was space travel. She simply did “not see the point of it”. The Beagle mission to Mars? A waste of money. Paul Merton brought up the possibility that we might one day need to leave this planet to ensure the survival of our species, as recently pointed out by Stephen Hawking. As Merton was explaining Hawking’s warning to her, McCall made yawning motions that would have made Homer Simpson proud, and said that she just found that immensely boring. Davina McCall isn’t a complete moron, which makes her anti-intellectualism so much worse.

To top it all, McCall claimed to believe that the moon landings were faked."

There are plenty of television presenters who aren't gibbering morons, though.

Moufflon · 13th June 2007, 02:51 PM

Thanks for the link, Ziggurat. I wondered briefly if you were making an anti-dumbing down point by quoting a 19th century source, but I see that's just Theodore Dalrymple's style... I think this:

Quote:

You're stupid because you're clever.

What did they mean by this apparent paradox? They meant that anyone who tried hard at school and performed well was wasting his time, when he could have been engaged in the real business of life, such as truanting in the park or wandering downtown. Furthermore, there was menace in their words: If you don't mend your ways and join us, they were saying, we'll beat you up.

is particularly apt.

Darat, does it trouble you a little that even BBC2, the last haven of minority cultural pragramming, hast to cast its history-of-words programme in terms of boobies? With cheesy reconstructions of women in suspenders?

Dr Adequate, your point about Davina (that yawning again!) underlines something that I forgot to put in my OP, which is the worry that this lack of interest in anything except the immediate surely leads to a whole lot of belief in woo?

DanishDynamite · 13th June 2007, 04:47 PM

I don't know the whole answer to your question, Moufflon, but you must remember that half the population of any country is always at or below average (median) intelligence. In the good old days before television this didn't matter much. But with the advent of television and the increased affluence of our societies, pandering to the unwashed (albeit fairly wealthy) masses, pays.

joobie · 13th June 2007, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Moufflon

I take this to be symptomatic of British culture in general: a professed uninterest in anything much beyond celebrity culture and the pages of Heat magazine.

it must be because y'all secretly wish you were americans.

gtc · 13th June 2007, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by DanishDynamite

I don't know the whole answer to your question, Moufflon, but you must remember that half the population of any country is always at or below average (median) intelligence. In the good old days before television this didn't matter much. But with the advent of television and the increased affluence of our societies, pandering to the unwashed (albeit fairly wealthy) masses, pays.

Half the population is always below the median. If the distribution is skewed then the average will not be the same as the median.

Zep · 13th June 2007, 06:43 PM

Meh. Same down here. Although Big Brother Australia is currently rating single digits or less and looks to be in its death throes (only their mums are watching, it seems), the low-intellect and very easily amused bracket of our population are probably going to be catered for with something equally moronic somewhere down the road. I imagine it will involve throwing pavlovas or some such...

I must say though, the Poms do put up seriously good detective and police shows when they have a mind to. Really smart and entertaining. That, plus stuff like Horizon, are to be looked forward to in our house.

The Painter · 13th June 2007, 07:03 PM

Sounds like TV sucks all over the world.

Art Vandelay · 13th June 2007, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

5: Law and Order: Criminal Intent 23/23 - False Hearted Judges American police drama series that loo… 60 minutes

Huh?

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

"[i]The first item Davina wanted to rid the world of, was space travel. She simply did “not see the point of it”. The Beagle mission to Mars? A waste of money. Paul Merton brought up the possibility that we might one day need to leave this planet to ensure the survival of our species, as recently pointed out by Stephen Hawking.

That's just silly. What, we're going to find out that there's an asteroid due in a month that will wipe out all human life, but there's a habitable planet within shuttle distance that we just now noticed, and we're going to evacuate the human race using half a dozen shuttles, each of which can carry a dozen people? Sure, on a scale of a billion years, or maybe even a thousand years (if things go really badly), we'll have to move to another planet. But why does that mean we should spend money now on, using technology that is surely way more expensive than there will be in the future? Merton's answer is lazy and idiotic. Maybe he's part of the problem.

malbui · 13th June 2007, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Davina McCall is anti-intellectual, but she's a bit of a special case.

I often get into trouble quoting from memory, but wasn't Davina the subject of one of Humph's greatest lines on I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue?

"Davina McCall, whose chat show I was sorry to see. I'm sorry, whose chat show I was sorry to see was cancelled..."

Darat · 14th June 2007, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Moufflon

...snip...

Darat, does it trouble you a little that even BBC2, the last haven of minority cultural pragramming, hast to cast its history-of-words programme in terms of boobies? With cheesy reconstructions of women in suspenders?

...snip...

No. And I struggle to see what that point has to do with your comment about anti-intellectualism? After all prudery has nothing to do with intellectualism neither anti- nor pro-.

Darat · 14th June 2007, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Huh?

...snip..

And a "huh?" right back at you, I've no idea what your "Huh?" is meant to mean.

richardm · 14th June 2007, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by Theodore Dalrymple

amour ... pedagogue ... unfortunate consequences.

Originally Posted by MacCall level ignorant

I'll give him unfortunate consequences all right - bloody pedos should all be castrated and locked up for life.

I'm not sure how science has got such a bad name. Back in the 1950s being a scientist appeared to be quite an aspirational thing, working to contain the mighty atom and all that. Or perhaps that wasn't really as widespread an attitude as it seems.

But being educated in general seems, for some people, to be deeply uncool. I suppose it's part of that same character that derides people who work hard at school for being swots. I've no idea what can be done about it, either. Programmes like Mythbusters are probably one of the ways forward, by showing some of the practical applications for knowing things. but that's far from mainstream in the UK.

Cheesejoff · 14th June 2007, 02:23 AM

In what way can Big Brother be considered part of UK culture?

Big Les · 14th June 2007, 02:25 AM

^Because it's a stark reflection of a significant aspect of it, I'm afraid. The ignorant, superficial, self-obsessed aspect that thinks everyone has a right to fame, fortune and success, without having to work for it.

That's unfortunate to hear about Davina MacCall. She's only moderately annoying, but the knowledge that she has (and the occasional glimpse of) an H.R. Giger alien tattooed on her bum has always managed to keep her in my favour thus far.

petra10 · 14th June 2007, 02:30 AM

one of the reasons i joined this forum was for some stimulating conversation,although to tell you the truth it has been a lot more fun than a thought.most of my friends have no notion what goes on in the world,if its not in heat or ok magazines then it not important.They watch and talk endlessly about they daft shows like x-factor,grease is the word,britains most talented ect. Sometimes i have better conversation with their teenage children who seem to be a bit more aware of world happenings so i have some hope for the future

richardm · 14th June 2007, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesejoff

In what way can Big Brother be considered part of UK culture?

In what way can it not? Even the BBC News reports on the goings-on there.

volatile · 14th June 2007, 02:48 AM

Look - Sephen Fry is a celebrity in the UK. It can't be that bad! Mark Kermode is, too. We also have the BBC, including Radio 4 and BBC 4 which are entirely devoted to stimulating and intelligent content. That's better than France and Germany (two other countries I've lived in), as well as the US as far as I can tell.

There are less-than-intellectal quarters, no dubt, but I stll hold out some hope.

Tanja · 14th June 2007, 03:29 AM

I would be tempted to say that when I was growing up in Croatia, the society was more intellectual on average than here in the UK. However, as both of my parents were academics, it could just be that I grew up in a very intellectual environment. TV, for example, has changed a lot in Croatia over the last 15 or so years, and Big Brother dominates the media as well...

The important thing is that there is a little bit of something for everyone - I am in charge of chosing my own entertainment after all.

Diamond · 14th June 2007, 03:37 AM

British culture is dominated by a cult of mediocrity where excellence and brilliance are ruthlessly assaulted by the press until whatever it is is as mediocre as everything else.

This isn't surprising since it is headed by mediocrity and led by mediocrity.

Undesired Walrus · 14th June 2007, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by volatile

Mark Kermode is, too.

Mark Kermode?
Mark Kermode?
Mark Kermode?

volatile · 14th June 2007, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Mark Kermode?
Mark Kermode?
Mark Kermode?

Doctor Mark Kermode, indeed. He's an intellectual. A very smart, highbrow guy, wth a massively popular national radio show and recurrent presence on flagship BBC2 programmes, as well as elsewhere. You may not like him (though, in the words of the man himself "you'd be wrong"

), but you can't deny he's an intellectual with high pop-culture visibility.

Darat · 14th June 2007, 04:42 AM

BBC 2 - the station that tells you when you are middle aged.

volatile · 14th June 2007, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

BBC 2 - the station that tells you when you are middle aged.

Steady, old bean - despite my slim diet consisting almost exclusively of BBC News 24, Newsnight and Radios 4 and 5, I'm only 27!

Darat · 14th June 2007, 05:39 AM

If you like Radio 2 you are middle aged - chronological age doesn't come into it.

Big Les · 14th June 2007, 05:46 AM

Yeah, "middle aged" as in Anno Domini 1385.

volatile · 14th June 2007, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

If you like Radio 2 you are middle aged - chronological age doesn't come into it.

I can't generally abide much of Radio 2's programming. Never have done. Radio 4, however, fills me with joy. Maybe I've skipped middle age and gone straight to old age?

Darat · 14th June 2007, 05:54 AM

Ah well in a few years when you find yourself closer to the average age of the Radio 4 listener you can look forward to the same extensional dilemma I have had to face. Do you admit to being a Radio 4 listener or not?

It's a terrible shock when you find you have become the stereotype! (Moufflon's anti-intellectual syndrome in reverse

)

Darat · 14th June 2007, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by volatile

I can't generally abide much of Radio 2's programming. Never have done. ...snip...

Don't bet on it - it was only a couple of years ago my partner said to me "Radio 2 has really changed, I never used to like it but I'm listening to it more and more" - and they were put out when I replied (after much laughing) with "Why do you think it's Radio 2 that's changed?"

Apparently the average age Radio 2 "changes" is around the mid-30s.

brodski · 14th June 2007, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Ah well in a few years when you find yourself closer to the average age of the Radio 4 listener you can look forward to the same extensional dilemma I have had to face. Do you admit to being a Radio 4 listener or not?

It's a terrible shock when you find you have become the stereotype! (Moufflon's anti-intellectual syndrome in reverse

)

At the risk of sounding like a bad 1950s “b” movie- I was a teenage radio 4 listener.

Mind you, I think you only have to really worry when you catch yourself listening to you and yours. Or, perhaps, when discussing the latest BBC TV hit comedy series saying “ it was so much better on the radio”.

volatile · 14th June 2007, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Ah well in a few years when you find yourself closer to the average age of the Radio 4 listener you can look forward to the same extensional dilemma I have had to face. Do you admit to being a Radio 4 listener or not?

It's a terrible shock when you find you have become the stereotype! (Moufflon's anti-intellectual syndrome in reverse

)

Well, my current career trajectory is "philosophy professor", so as long as I get the tweed jacket, unkempt hair and wild middle-distance stare to match, I'll be more than happy...

volatile · 14th June 2007, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by brodski

At the risk of sounding like a bad 1950s “b” movie- I was a teenage radio 4 listener.

Mind you, I think you only have to really worry when you catch yourself listening to you and yours.

Gardener's Question Time, shurely?

Darat · 14th June 2007, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by brodski

At the risk of sounding like a bad 1950s “b” movie- I was a teenage radio 4 listener.

So was I... that's why it's a shock!

Originally Posted by brodski

Mind you, I think you only have to really worry when you catch yourself listening to you and yours. Or, perhaps, when discussing the latest BBC TV hit comedy series saying “ it was so much better on the radio”.

But Little Britain was so much... as for Absolute Power well no comparison.... oh dear... I'll get my coat.

13th June 2007, 02:04 PM	#1
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	Why is UK popular culture so anti-intellectual? Only -- and I can't emphasise that enough -- because I happen to know slightly one of the contestants this year (somthing that seems increasingly likely as the show lurches into its 9 millionth series), I had the misfortune to see Big Brother's Friday show. It plunged me into deep depression. Mainly because of Davina's introduction to one of the contestants. He happens to be a Classicist/Art Historian who has published on his subject. Davina couldn't bring herself to finish a single sentence on the subject (I paraphrase): "He's written about - uh - Bronj [sic] Age idols - this is too boring to finish... (babbles)." I take this to be symptomatic of British culture in general: a professed uninterest in anything much beyond celebrity culture and the pages of Heat magazine. Why is this? It seems that other, non-anglophone countries don't have quite the same problem: Greek farmers will debate politics, philosophy, or literature ancient and modern; Syrian labourers the classical poetry of Abu Al-‘ala al-Ma’arri... Or is that a 'grass-is-always-greener' misconception? I'm not sure it's a class issue as I know many university-educated middle-class Brits who appear to be interested in nothing in particular. The rant of a geek and snob? Perhaps. Discuss. [PS: I'm British myself.]
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69

13th June 2007, 02:09 PM	#2
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 34,538	You sure you're not just seeing a symptom of pandering to the audience for the program involved? I doubt many intellectuals watch Big Brother.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

13th June 2007, 02:10 PM	#3
Solus Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,722	It's the same in America so don't feel left out. Although I'd say non-intellectual rather than anti-intellectual in America.
Solus Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,722

13th June 2007, 02:17 PM	#5
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	Originally Posted by The Atheist You sure you're not just seeing a symptom of pandering to the audience for the program involved? I doubt many intellectuals watch Big Brother. Isn't that equally troubling, though? The pandering goes along the lines of "We find anything you do that is remotely academic to be literally too boring for words." Rather than, "That's interesting, let's put the kettle on." As Solus says, it seems anti-intellectual, rather than merely non-.
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69

13th June 2007, 02:19 PM	#6
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	Originally Posted by Miss Anthrope The bar in western popular culture has been dropped so low, you have to follow the rolling sound just to find it on the floor. Stop watching broadcast TV, and watch on DVD only. Trust me, you'll feel smarter by the end of the week. When I am in a store and see the commercials and the garbage people actually waste their life precious on, I have to wonder what the allure is. Miss Anthrope, I agree. I do most of that myself (or hang around on fora!). I wonder why it's such a problem in the West, though. It seems unrelated to levels of wealth or general education... Weird and depressing, I find.
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69

13th June 2007, 02:15 PM	#4
Miss Anthrope Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,575	The bar in western popular culture has been dropped so low, you have to follow the rolling sound just to find it on the floor. Stop watching broadcast TV, and watch on DVD only. Trust me, you'll feel smarter by the end of the week. When I am in a store and see the commercials and the garbage people actually waste their life precious on, I have to wonder what the allure is.

13th June 2007, 02:34 PM	#7
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55,372	Want to feel depressed about the state of England? Read some Theodore Dalrymple. I'll start you off with an essay on the subject you raised: We Don't Want No Education "I was told of one school where the teachers were allowed by the headmaster to make corrections, but only five per piece of work, irrespective of the number actually present. This, of course, was to preserve the amour propre of the children, but it seemed not to have occurred to this pedagogue that his five correction rule was likely to have unfortunate consequences. The teacher might choose to correct an error in the spelling of a word, for example, and overlook precisely the same error in the next piece of work. How is a child to interpret correction based on this headmaster's principle? The less intelligent, perhaps, will regard it as a species of natural hazard, like the weather, about which he can do very little; while the more intelligent are likely to draw the conclusion that the principle of correction as such is inherently arbitrary and unjust."
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

13th June 2007, 02:34 PM	#8
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,675	Looking at what is on the five terrestrial channels at 10pm this coming Friday: BBC 1:BBC News; Regional News; Weather The latest news and weather. 35 minutes BBC 2: Balderdash & Piffle 4/8 - X Rated Viewers of a sensitive disposition be… 30 minutes ITV:(22:30) ITV News; Weather The latest national and international… 30 minutes C4:Big Brother This year's first evicted housemate l…30 minutes 5: Law and Order: Criminal Intent 23/23 - False Hearted Judges American police drama series that loo… 60 minutes I don't think that is too bad a selection, two news bulletins, a series about finding antedatings for words in the OED, Big Brother and a USA drama series.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

13th June 2007, 02:47 PM	#9
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766	Davina McCall is anti-intellectual, but she's a bit of a special case. "The first item Davina wanted to rid the world of, was space travel. She simply did “not see the point of it”. The Beagle mission to Mars? A waste of money. Paul Merton brought up the possibility that we might one day need to leave this planet to ensure the survival of our species, as recently pointed out by Stephen Hawking. As Merton was explaining Hawking’s warning to her, McCall made yawning motions that would have made Homer Simpson proud, and said that she just found that immensely boring. Davina McCall isn’t a complete moron, which makes her anti-intellectualism so much worse. To top it all, McCall claimed to believe that the moon landings were faked." There are plenty of television presenters who aren't gibbering morons, though.
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766

13th June 2007, 02:51 PM	#10
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	Thanks for the link, Ziggurat. I wondered briefly if you were making an anti-dumbing down point by quoting a 19th century source, but I see that's just Theodore Dalrymple's style... I think this: Quote: You're stupid because you're clever. What did they mean by this apparent paradox? They meant that anyone who tried hard at school and performed well was wasting his time, when he could have been engaged in the real business of life, such as truanting in the park or wandering downtown. Furthermore, there was menace in their words: If you don't mend your ways and join us, they were saying, we'll beat you up. is particularly apt. Darat, does it trouble you a little that even BBC2, the last haven of minority cultural pragramming, hast to cast its history-of-words programme in terms of boobies? With cheesy reconstructions of women in suspenders? Dr Adequate, your point about Davina (that yawning again!) underlines something that I forgot to put in my OP, which is the worry that this lack of interest in anything except the immediate surely leads to a whole lot of belief in woo?
Moufflon Ruminant Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69

13th June 2007, 04:47 PM	#11
DanishDynamite Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,752	I don't know the whole answer to your question, Moufflon, but you must remember that half the population of any country is always at or below average (median) intelligence. In the good old days before television this didn't matter much. But with the advent of television and the increased affluence of our societies, pandering to the unwashed (albeit fairly wealthy) masses, pays.

13th June 2007, 04:56 PM	#12
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,515	Originally Posted by Moufflon I take this to be symptomatic of British culture in general: a professed uninterest in anything much beyond celebrity culture and the pages of Heat magazine. it must be because y'all secretly wish you were americans.
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,515

13th June 2007, 06:26 PM	#13
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 7,110	Originally Posted by DanishDynamite I don't know the whole answer to your question, Moufflon, but you must remember that half the population of any country is always at or below average (median) intelligence. In the good old days before television this didn't matter much. But with the advent of television and the increased affluence of our societies, pandering to the unwashed (albeit fairly wealthy) masses, pays. Half the population is always below the median. If the distribution is skewed then the average will not be the same as the median.
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 7,110

13th June 2007, 06:43 PM	#14
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,704	Meh. Same down here. Although Big Brother Australia is currently rating single digits or less and looks to be in its death throes (only their mums are watching, it seems), the low-intellect and very easily amused bracket of our population are probably going to be catered for with something equally moronic somewhere down the road. I imagine it will involve throwing pavlovas or some such... I must say though, the Poms do put up seriously good detective and police shows when they have a mind to. Really smart and entertaining. That, plus stuff like Horizon, are to be looked forward to in our house.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,704

13th June 2007, 07:03 PM	#15
The Painter Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,654	Sounds like TV sucks all over the world.
The Painter Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,654

13th June 2007, 10:16 PM	#16
Art Vandelay Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4,787	Originally Posted by Darat 5: Law and Order: Criminal Intent 23/23 - False Hearted Judges American police drama series that loo… 60 minutes Huh? Originally Posted by Dr Adequate "[i]The first item Davina wanted to rid the world of, was space travel. She simply did “not see the point of it”. The Beagle mission to Mars? A waste of money. Paul Merton brought up the possibility that we might one day need to leave this planet to ensure the survival of our species, as recently pointed out by Stephen Hawking. That's just silly. What, we're going to find out that there's an asteroid due in a month that will wipe out all human life, but there's a habitable planet within shuttle distance that we just now noticed, and we're going to evacuate the human race using half a dozen shuttles, each of which can carry a dozen people? Sure, on a scale of a billion years, or maybe even a thousand years (if things go really badly), we'll have to move to another planet. But why does that mean we should spend money now on, using technology that is surely way more expensive than there will be in the future? Merton's answer is lazy and idiotic. Maybe he's part of the problem.

13th June 2007, 11:43 PM	#17
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,740	Originally Posted by Dr Adequate Davina McCall is anti-intellectual, but she's a bit of a special case. I often get into trouble quoting from memory, but wasn't Davina the subject of one of Humph's greatest lines on I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue? "Davina McCall, whose chat show I was sorry to see. I'm sorry, whose chat show I was sorry to see was cancelled..."
malbui Beauf Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,740	__________________ "But Master! Does not the fire need water too? Does not the mountain need the storm? Does not your scrotum need kicking?"

14th June 2007, 12:40 AM	#18
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,675	Originally Posted by Moufflon ...snip... Darat, does it trouble you a little that even BBC2, the last haven of minority cultural pragramming, hast to cast its history-of-words programme in terms of boobies? With cheesy reconstructions of women in suspenders? ...snip... No. And I struggle to see what that point has to do with your comment about anti-intellectualism? After all prudery has nothing to do with intellectualism neither anti- nor pro-.
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14th June 2007, 12:42 AM	#19
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,675	Originally Posted by Art Vandelay Huh? ...snip.. And a "huh?" right back at you, I've no idea what your "Huh?" is meant to mean.
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14th June 2007, 01:39 AM	#20
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,248	Originally Posted by Theodore Dalrymple amour ... pedagogue ... unfortunate consequences. Originally Posted by MacCall level ignorant I'll give him unfortunate consequences all right - bloody pedos should all be castrated and locked up for life. I'm not sure how science has got such a bad name. Back in the 1950s being a scientist appeared to be quite an aspirational thing, working to contain the mighty atom and all that. Or perhaps that wasn't really as widespread an attitude as it seems. But being educated in general seems, for some people, to be deeply uncool. I suppose it's part of that same character that derides people who work hard at school for being swots. I've no idea what can be done about it, either. Programmes like Mythbusters are probably one of the ways forward, by showing some of the practical applications for knowing things. but that's far from mainstream in the UK.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,248	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

14th June 2007, 02:23 AM	#21
Cheesejoff Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 214	In what way can Big Brother be considered part of UK culture?
Cheesejoff Thinker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 214

14th June 2007, 02:25 AM	#22
Big Les Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 5,056	^Because it's a stark reflection of a significant aspect of it, I'm afraid. The ignorant, superficial, self-obsessed aspect that thinks everyone has a right to fame, fortune and success, without having to work for it. That's unfortunate to hear about Davina MacCall. She's only moderately annoying, but the knowledge that she has (and the occasional glimpse of) an H.R. Giger alien tattooed on her bum has always managed to keep her in my favour thus far.

14th June 2007, 02:30 AM	#23
petra10 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,824	one of the reasons i joined this forum was for some stimulating conversation,although to tell you the truth it has been a lot more fun than a thought.most of my friends have no notion what goes on in the world,if its not in heat or ok magazines then it not important.They watch and talk endlessly about they daft shows like x-factor,grease is the word,britains most talented ect. Sometimes i have better conversation with their teenage children who seem to be a bit more aware of world happenings so i have some hope for the future
petra10 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,824

14th June 2007, 02:43 AM	#24
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,248	Originally Posted by Cheesejoff In what way can Big Brother be considered part of UK culture? In what way can it not? Even the BBC News reports on the goings-on there.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,248	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

14th June 2007, 02:48 AM	#25
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,729	Look - Sephen Fry is a celebrity in the UK. It can't be that bad! Mark Kermode is, too. We also have the BBC, including Radio 4 and BBC 4 which are entirely devoted to stimulating and intelligent content. That's better than France and Germany (two other countries I've lived in), as well as the US as far as I can tell. There are less-than-intellectal quarters, no dubt, but I stll hold out some hope.
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'. Last edited by volatile; 14th June 2007 at 02:50 AM.

14th June 2007, 03:29 AM	#26
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,339	I would be tempted to say that when I was growing up in Croatia, the society was more intellectual on average than here in the UK. However, as both of my parents were academics, it could just be that I grew up in a very intellectual environment. TV, for example, has changed a lot in Croatia over the last 15 or so years, and Big Brother dominates the media as well... The important thing is that there is a little bit of something for everyone - I am in charge of chosing my own entertainment after all.
Tanja Comfortably Numb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,339

14th June 2007, 03:37 AM	#27
Diamond Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,729	British culture is dominated by a cult of mediocrity where excellence and brilliance are ruthlessly assaulted by the press until whatever it is is as mediocre as everything else. This isn't surprising since it is headed by mediocrity and led by mediocrity.
Diamond Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,729

14th June 2007, 04:20 AM	#28
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 11,691	Originally Posted by volatile Mark Kermode is, too. Mark Kermode? Mark Kermode? Mark Kermode?

14th June 2007, 04:23 AM	#29
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,729	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus Mark Kermode? Mark Kermode? Mark Kermode? Doctor Mark Kermode, indeed. He's an intellectual. A very smart, highbrow guy, wth a massively popular national radio show and recurrent presence on flagship BBC2 programmes, as well as elsewhere. You may not like him (though, in the words of the man himself "you'd be wrong" ), but you can't deny he's an intellectual with high pop-culture visibility.
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'.

14th June 2007, 04:42 AM	#30
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,675	BBC 2 - the station that tells you when you are middle aged.
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14th June 2007, 05:10 AM	#31
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,729	Originally Posted by Darat BBC 2 - the station that tells you when you are middle aged. Steady, old bean - despite my slim diet consisting almost exclusively of BBC News 24, Newsnight and Radios 4 and 5, I'm only 27!
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'.

14th June 2007, 05:39 AM	#32
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,675	If you like Radio 2 you are middle aged - chronological age doesn't come into it.
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14th June 2007, 05:46 AM	#33
Big Les Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 5,056	Yeah, "middle aged" as in Anno Domini 1385.

14th June 2007, 05:47 AM	#34
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,729	Originally Posted by Darat If you like Radio 2 you are middle aged - chronological age doesn't come into it. I can't generally abide much of Radio 2's programming. Never have done. Radio 4, however, fills me with joy. Maybe I've skipped middle age and gone straight to old age?
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'.

14th June 2007, 05:54 AM	#35
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,675	Ah well in a few years when you find yourself closer to the average age of the Radio 4 listener you can look forward to the same extensional dilemma I have had to face. Do you admit to being a Radio 4 listener or not? It's a terrible shock when you find you have become the stereotype! (Moufflon's anti-intellectual syndrome in reverse )
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