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Old 26th June 2007, 08:48 AM   #1
JamesB
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On Again Off Again Airfones

David Ray Griffin can't even make up his mind whether there were airfones on AA77, now Rob Balsamo is claiming that maintanence manuals show that there weren't. Where are our aircraft tech guys?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/AA757AMM.html
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Old 26th June 2007, 09:38 AM   #2
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Not merely "claiming". It has been definitively confirmed.

CIT set up DRG and PFT with the A&P mechanic that got the maintenance log that proves they were deactivated.


  • Top left date 01/28/2007 refers to the software revision date used to read this document on American Airlines Computer system.
  • 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manual page date found in lower right. Page of manual is 23-19-00-0.
  • Work Order ECO-F0878 dated prior to above 757 AMM page could not be located.
  • "Replacement" refers to major maintenance events being done on aircraft that requires full removal of phone system. Phone Company Personnel only are allowed to remove/re-install full system until removed permanently. However, the phones were deactivated (no service) during this time according to above 757 AMM.
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Old 26th June 2007, 09:41 AM   #3
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Quote:
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX:
Thank you for contacting Customer Relations. I am pleased to have the opportunity to assist you.
That is correct we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.
However, the pilots are able to stay in constant contact with the Air Traffic Control tower.
Mr. XXXXXXXX, I hope this information is helpful. It is a privilege to serve you. This is an "outgoing only" email address. If you 'reply' to this message by simply selecting the reply button, we will not receive your additional comments. Please assist us in providing you with a timely response to any feedback you have for us by always sending us your email messages via AA.com at http://www.aa.com/customerrelations.
Sincerely,
Chad Kinder
Customer Relations
American Airlines
The house of cards is falling fast.
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Old 26th June 2007, 09:44 AM   #4
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Hardly proven, anonymously provided documents of unknown origin. We are to believe that AA removed all the airfones from its 757s, then on 9/11, in what could possibly be one of the most publicized stories ever, the passengers called on the airfone, yet not a single one of the thousands of pilots, flight attendents, mechanics, ticket agents, or millions of passengers noticed that the phones had already been removed. Then 3 months later AA announced they were going to remove the phones, and none of those same thousands noticed that they had already been removed. Then 6 years later someone discovers an old memo showing they never existed. Sorry, don't buy that without something more credible.
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Old 26th June 2007, 09:48 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
The house of cards is falling fast.
Dude, David Ray Griffin already retracted that myth. At least get your story straight.

Quote:
My mistake, like that of Henshall and Rowland before me, was to assume that the AA spokesperson and this website were talking about AA 757s as they had always been, not simply about 757s at the time of the query, in 2004.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...y-griffin.html
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Old 26th June 2007, 09:59 AM   #6
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Yep.

That's why we helped him get to the bottom of the truth and he is retracting his retraction.

There were phones.

They were deactivated.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
Hardly proven, anonymously provided documents of unknown origin. We are to believe that AA removed all the airfones from its 757s, then on 9/11, in what could possibly be one of the most publicized stories ever, the passengers called on the airfone, yet not a single one of the thousands of pilots, flight attendents, mechanics, ticket agents, or millions of passengers noticed that the phones had already been removed. Then 3 months later AA announced they were going to remove the phones, and none of those same thousands noticed that they had already been removed. Then 6 years later someone discovers an old memo showing they never existed. Sorry, don't buy that without something more credible.
The story just broke today.

It will be easy to "debunk" if these "anonymously provided documents of unknown origin" were faked.

But they are not of unknown origin the are from American Airlines maintenance logs.

And the phones weren't "removed" they were deactivated.

You really should read more carefully.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:05 AM   #8
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Why is the date on the top left blacked out? Also the bottom of the doc. is cut off.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
The story just broke today.

It will be easy to "debunk" if these "anonymously provided documents of unknown origin" were faked.

But they are not of unknown origin the are from American Airlines maintenance logs.

And the phones weren't "removed" they were deactivated.

You really should read more carefully.

Let's see: You and your partners-in-evil are called Conspiracy Liars. You are a particularly egregious example. How long do you suppose it will take for rationalists to demolish your latest falsehood?
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:13 AM   #10
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Flight 77, American Airlines, Fraud of Pentacon, Citizen Investigation Team

Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
David Ray Griffin can't even make up his mind whether there were airfones on AA77, now Rob Balsamo is claiming that maintanence manuals show that there weren't. Where are our aircraft tech guys?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/AA757AMM.html
The doc does not say anything. Document dated 2007. What delusional pilot would use a 2007 document to show the phones were still operational in 2001? This from PFT who can not hit buildings with simulators. The document is too messed up, and one page does not do anything. We need the revision key kids. It does not say if the phones work or not.

JDX is the last person you want making decisions on 9/11 or flight. He is the most challenged pilot on the planet with regard to aircraft equipment. He did not know a Radar Altimeter worked in the microwave spectrum, but a layperson interviewer knew. Cell phones in 2001 do work when you flew, I used them. In fact you can see towers in the air you just can not get on the ground. As the sun sets on Lyte and JDX, they want to make up CIA stories of morphed voices and fake calls, it only adds to the fact these two guys are too drugged up to make rational conclusions on the simple things. Their fantasy requires you to be real dumb to believe.


The document is missing more stuff and the annotations show the deactivation was in the future from 2001. The pages are updated and changed, you need the key for the dates of revision, it seems they keep those dates separate from the pages and the codes you can see. JDX would not understand, he must of flunked out of Captain training. You must know your limitations when you fly, and learn how to use documents. The revision key here is kind of different a lot of airliners use "|" lines for changes. We actually need to know the ECOs to know how the system was removed in the future from 2001. They have messed up and not learn the key to the page revision. Sad, JDX has no knowledge of anything about flying. Sad.

Last edited by beachnut; 26th June 2007 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:26 AM   #11
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Top left date 01/28/2007 refers to the software revision date used to read this document on American Airlines Computer system.

The maintenance date is at the bottom.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by pomeroo View Post
Let's see: You and your partners-in-evil are called Conspiracy Liars. You are a particularly egregious example. How long do you suppose it will take for rationalists to demolish your latest falsehood?
Ad hominem attack.

What a typical reaction when you have nothing to counter the info.

I have never lied which is why you have not cited a lie to back up your hollow accusation.

Everything we claim we back up with hard researched evidence.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:35 AM   #13
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That memo doesn't make much sense. They say that the telephone system was deactivated, but then it continues on to talk about what it does, how it works, and who will perform maintenance on it.

Lyte, got any more of that memo? Were the phones deactivated temporarily or permanently? Was the system replaced? Why do they include a bunch of non-important information about a phone system that is deactivated?
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Top left date 01/28/2007 refers to the software revision date used to read this document on American Airlines Computer system.

The maintenance date is at the bottom.
The doc date is top left. It's blacked out. WHY?
The date on the bottom refers to what comes next in the doc.. It's cut off. WHY?
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:37 AM   #15
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nothing to see here! move along
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
And the phones weren't "removed" they were deactivated.
Second line of your memo:

Quote:
ECO's F1463 and F1532 remove most of the remaining telephone equipment rack and wiring.
What does that mean, Lyte?
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:39 AM   #17
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And why does the print for the date at the bottom look different than the rest of the document?
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:41 AM   #18
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Oops duplicate post.
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I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago.
-David Ray Griffin-

Last edited by JamesB; 26th June 2007 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
And why does the print for the date at the bottom look different than the rest of the document?
That's the manual revision date. Either this manual page was printed 6+ years ago, was photoshopped, or AA doesn't update their AMMs.




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Old 26th June 2007, 10:43 AM   #20
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It doesn't say remove all. It says most. But ok I'll give you that.

They were deactivated and removed.

If you think the document was faked or the information is untrue it will be easy to refute via American Airlines.

We know for a fact it is real because we personally know the A&P mechanic that obtained it.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:43 AM   #21
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Whenever these geniuses release one of these hot new conspiracies, it's only a matter of days before we learn what they did to manufacture the BS. I bet this was probably a document referring to a specific 757 plane, as it would be absurd to have removed every phone on every plane. And I can contest that I have flown on 757s that year and I have seen people use the phones. So this notion that there were no phones on any 757s is clearly not true.

Regardless, I believe Barbra was one of the only people to actually use a cell phone. But of course then we have to now get into the claims that the victims and/or the victims families were in on this plot which involved killing themselves. yeah, go tell that to the families of the victims.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Why is the date on the top left blacked out? Also the bottom of the doc. is cut off.
The upper left page date is the date and time of logon to the computer which was used to search for this document. It was redacted to protect our source.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:49 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by apathoid View Post
That's the manual revision date. Either this manual page was printed 6+ years ago, was photoshopped, or AA doesn't update their AMMs.




I think the codes for revisions are in the left margin, like changes are "|" in some of the Delta manuals. TR AA, we need the key. The manual tells how the system works, the ECOs were added after 2001, as reference to when things changed. Lyte, JDX in not very good at this. He is about as skilled at research as you are.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:50 AM   #24
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I just noticed, the software release date was 1/28/2007, the supposed manual update was 1/28/2001. What are the odds?

OK, that is kind of troofer logic, but it still makes you wonder...
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
It doesn't say remove all. It says most. But ok I'll give you that.
Don't 'give' me anything. It says what it says. You said they weren't removed, and "corrected" someone else - going so far as to tell them to read more carefully. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

Quote:
They were deactivated and removed.
So now you can address JamesB's post above regarding these missing airphones.

Quote:
If you think the document was faked or the information is untrue it will be easy to refute via American Airlines.

We know for a fact it is real because we personally know the A&P mechanic that obtained it.
Do you have anymore of this manual? Why do they go into length about a disconnected system? Why do they talk about maintenance of this system? Was the system replaced? Wouldn't the rest of the manual be important to you?
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:55 AM   #26
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All you can do is cry IT'S FAKE!

Just like all you can say about the citgo witnesses are THEY HALLUCINATED!

Get out there, make some phone calls, do some research and back up your claims with evidence.

Pseudo-skeptics bug me.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:59 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
I just noticed, the software release date was 1/28/2007, the supposed manual update was 1/28/2001. What are the odds?

OK, that is kind of troofer logic, but it still makes you wonder...
More like Duhbunker logic!

(yes you have a new permanent label)

You guys are the conspiracy theorists!
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:00 AM   #28
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So what does the bottom date refer to? Is it the date of the last revision supposedly? It seems odd that the date at the bottom is 1/28/2007 and the software release date is Jan 28/2007. Same day different year and the 1 on the end of 2001 looks funny as well(possibly changed from a 7 to 1)? And why is the area next to Software Release blacked out? I would say that that blackout area is the release identifier and the next line is the actual date of the document viewing. That is the normal way to id controlled documents. I call shenanigins!

Last edited by Billdave2; 26th June 2007 at 11:01 AM. Reason: dang to slow!
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:00 AM   #29
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Lyte, have you talked to any of the family members who you say could not have received phone calls and asked them why they lied about talking to the victims? Something to confirm that this isn't just an out of context page?
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:01 AM   #30
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Photo of an AA 757 cabin in 2002:
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=35569

Photo of an AA 757 cabin in 2003:
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=55280

Photo of an AA 757 cabin in 2004:
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=400651

Photo of an AA 757 cabin in 2005:
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=442822



If I was a betting man, I'd wager that the Airphones were removed in 2002-2003.
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:04 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by apathoid View Post

If I was a betting man, I'd wager that the Airphones were removed in 2002-2003.
Perhaps so but we have proven that they were deactivated before 9/11!

Thanks for helping to prove the point.
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:06 AM   #32
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One more thing to consider:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...9/c3801015.htm

Quote:
Whatever Happened to Seat-Back Phones?

In last year's terrorist hijackings, seat-back phones played a big role: Todd Beamer's famous last words, "Let's roll," were overheard on one. Others used them to bid farewell. But on Sept. 1, AT&T Wireless' (AWE ) aviation division halted service. At its peak, it had provided phones on hundreds of American (AMR ), Alaska Air (ALK ), Northwest (NWAC ), and Southwest (LUV ) planes, and a quarter of Delta's (DAL ) fleet.

Turns out, the phones weren't being used much. People were using their cell phones instead (prior to takeoff and after landing, of course). Plus, costs were up, says AT&T Wireless spokesman Richard Blasi, who notes that the aviation division, Claircom, accounted for less than 0.05% of AT&T Wireless' revenues. American Airlines says it was averaging fewer than three calls per flight. No wonder: Calls cost $2.99, plus $7.60 per minute.

Now, some carriers can't ditch the phones fast enough. Alaska Air estimates it will save $200,000 a year in fuel costs by removing the 150 to 300 pounds of phone gear on each plane. American says it will save millions.

But Airfone, operated by Verizon Communications (VZ ), is still found on American jets that used to be TWA planes, as well as on United, Continental, US Airways, most Delta planes, and eight international carriers. Airfone's digital technology makes it cheaper: $3.99 to connect, plus $3.99 a minute. United says its passengers are using them--to the tune of 4 to 15 calls per flight--and that frequent-flier surveys show customers want them. If the price is right, that is.
By Ann Therese Palmer
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:07 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
All you can do is cry IT'S FAKE!
Not me. I've asked twice now if you have any more of this manual. I've also asked about why they describe this non-existant system, why they talk about maintenance, and why they talk about replacing it. Still no answer from you.
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:07 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
All you can do is cry IT'S FAKE!

Just like all you can say about the citgo witnesses are THEY HALLUCINATED!

Get out there, make some phone calls, do some research and back up your claims with evidence.

Pseudo-skeptics bug me.

Translation: "I am a 9/11 Truther and therefore I am exempt from having to answer questions."
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:07 AM   #35
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Lyte, why are you still trying to convince us of anything. This is a huge waste of your time, really. You won't convince us "pseudo-skeptics," so why don't you focus on writing up reports to authorities. Take action & nab those perps!
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:07 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
All you can do is cry IT'S FAKE!

Just like all you can say about the citgo witnesses are THEY HALLUCINATED!

Get out there, make some phone calls, do some research and back up your claims with evidence.

Pseudo-skeptics bug me.
I didn't call it fake. You need to show the rest of the document. Why cut it off?
Quote:
Work Order ECO-F0878 dated prior to above 757 AMM page could not be located.
This would be the the smoking gun. It would say when the phones were disconnected
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:09 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
Lyte, have you talked to any of the family members who you say could not have received phone calls and asked them why they lied about talking to the victims? Something to confirm that this isn't just an out of context page?
You mean bush cronie Ted Olson?

Him and only one other "family member" are all that allegedly received phone calls from 77.

Almost all the alleged calls were allegedly from flight 93

But what did Ted Olson tell the supreme court under oath?

Quote:
"...easy to imagine an infinite number of situations . . . where government officials might quite legitimately have reasons to give false information out."
I would LOVE to talk to him in person

Last edited by Lyte Trip; 26th June 2007 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:12 AM   #38
Lyte Trip
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Originally Posted by John Blonn View Post
Lyte, why are you still trying to convince us of anything. This is a huge waste of your time, really. You won't convince us "pseudo-skeptics," so why don't you focus on writing up reports to authorities. Take action & nab those perps!
That's what I am doing every day.

Why is it when I come around here once or month or so with new info you have to chime in with "get to work!"?

I understand the truth hurts and you like it when I stay away from here for long periods of time.

Sorry to disrupt your veil of denial.
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:13 AM   #39
stateofgrace
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Perhaps so but we have proven that they were deactivated before 9/11!

Thanks for helping to prove the point.
So the phones calls to the families were faked, yes or no?

Last edited by stateofgrace; 26th June 2007 at 11:16 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 26th June 2007, 11:14 AM   #40
apathoid
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Originally Posted by Billdave2 View Post
So what does the bottom date refer to? Is it the date of the last revision supposedly? It seems odd that the date at the bottom is 1/28/2007 and the software release date is Jan 28/2007. Same day different year and the 1 on the end of 2001 looks funny as well(possibly changed from a 7 to 1)? And why is the area next to Software Release blacked out? I would say that that blackout area is the release identifier and the next line is the actual date of the document viewing. That is the normal way to id controlled documents. I call shenanigins!

The software revision has to do with the online manual viewing program(we use a program called OTIS). The date at the bottom I assume to be the manual revision date, which is odd because that means that the Communications ATA chapter (the 23-xx-xx number at bottom) for AA's 757 fleet hasn't been revised in 6 years.

Have a look at the IPC illustration I made for the WTC mystery part. It shows the software revision at top, but shows no manual revision date, which is located in the front of the IPC...
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