Human Remains at Pentagon

MarcoPolo · 10th July 2007, 11:57 PM

I just recently saw the chart (Thanks Gravy!) with all the blue ovals showing where the human remains were found in the Pentagon.

My question is, how do the CTers explain that?

It seems to me you can't argue that. How many people were searching for bodies? How many times did they stop once they found some remains to make sure they handled it all properly? How many people would have to be in on this conspiracy?

It boggles my mind.

jhunter1163 · 11th July 2007, 12:03 AM

The mind-boggling thing about this to me is, the remains of ALL of the passengers on Flight 77 (except one infant) were found IN THE PENTAGON. How can any sane person conclude anything other than that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon?

Lyte goes on about chain of custody for the DNA, yada yada yada.. how many more people would faking the DNA results add to the already Impossibly Vast Conspiracy? (apologies to Pomeroo)

Devil's Advocate · 11th July 2007, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by MarcoPolo

I just recently saw the chart (Thanks Gravy!) with all the blue ovals showing where the human remains were found in the Pentagon.

My question is, how do the CTers explain that?

It seems to me you can't argue that. How many people were searching for bodies? How many times did they stop once they found some remains to make sure they handled it all properly? How many people would have to be in on this conspiracy?

It boggles my mind.

Well, to play off my forum name....
Most of the bodies I've seen were people that were already in the Pentagon.
(One I recall even has a badge you can clearly see on his left chest.)

Ok, so you get the list of passenger names, call up family members for blood samples to be used for DNA matching. Take a blood sample of the family member, drop some of their blood into 'unknown sample vile #1', and what do you know...it matches!
I doubt there would be any record of the samples or DNA matching process that would not be text based only. So how would you ever know if there was not a cover up or manipulation of evidence?

Of course that opens up a lot more questions, like "why not just fly the plane into the building in the first place?".... but that was not your question.

Gravy · 11th July 2007, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Well, to play off my forum name....
Most of the bodies I've seen were people that were already in the Pentagon.
(One I recall even has a badge you can clearly see on his left chest.)

Please keep in mind, though, that reality does not equal the sum of the photos you've seen.

Quote:

"When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.'
Rescue Commander U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."
Capt. Jim Ingledue , Virginia Beach Fire Dept

Quote:

Ok, so you get the list of passenger names, call up family members for blood samples to be used for DNA matching. Take a blood sample of the family member, drop some of their blood into 'unknown sample vile #1', and what do you know...it matches!
I doubt there would be any record of the samples or DNA matching process that would not be text based only. So how would you ever know if there was not a cover up or manipulation of evidence?

Of course that opens up a lot more questions, like "why not just fly the plane into the building in the first place?".... but that was not your question.

No, you couldn't do that, and this time I'm not going to tell you why. If you're interested in learning about the forensics of 9/11, you'll find many resources at the forensics section of my site, linked in my signature.

Anti-sophist · 11th July 2007, 06:15 AM

and who collected those samples?!? THE FBI@??? AND THEY HAVE _NEVER_ LIED BEFORE HAVE THEY??

lol!!!!

---------

I bring up the passenger DNA problem to the truthers all the time when they want to talk flight 77 and they always have some variation on this particular line of circular logic. You need to assume a conspiracy exists a priori in order to be able to selectively remove evidence you don't like when trying to prove the conspiracy.

beachnut · 11th July 2007, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Well, to play off my forum name....
Most of the bodies I've seen were people that were already in the Pentagon.
(One I recall even has a badge you can clearly see on his left chest.)

Ok, so you get the list of passenger names, call up family members for blood samples to be used for DNA matching. Take a blood sample of the family member, drop some of their blood into 'unknown sample vile #1', and what do you know...it matches!
I doubt there would be any record of the samples or DNA matching process that would not be text based only. So how would you ever know if there was not a cover up or manipulation of evidence?

Of course that opens up a lot more questions, like "why not just fly the plane into the building in the first place?".... but that was not your question.

Sad questions only a truther would find merit in. Sad event, disrespectful idoits and how did the education system fail, how can the few become so dumb? What is up?

Alt+F4 · 11th July 2007, 07:11 AM

Linky: http://www.afip.org/Departments/lega...2002/kelly.htm

Quote:

A multi-disciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) played a major role in one of the most comprehensive forensic investigations in United States history following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack at the Pentagon in Virginia, just outside Washington, DC.

Quote:

Code-named "Operation Noble Eagle," AFIP’s team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for over two weeks at the Dover Air Force Base Port Mortuary at Dover, Delaware to identify the 188 victims of the attack. "Our staff represented every branch of the service," said AFIP Director Glenn N. Wagner, CAPT, MC, USN, who served as senior officer during the operation.

Why don't the conspiracy liars just contact a few of the folks mentioned in this report? Why not drop by any Metro D.C. fire house and interview a few of the firefighter that saw the bodies?

As for the FBI, why are they lying when they say they saw AA77 passenger bodies at the Pentagon but telling the truth when know the "real reasons" OBL isn't on the most wanted list?

T.A.M. · 11th July 2007, 10:12 AM

MarcoPolo:

What do you do when confronted with the body locations...

RATIONAL SANE PERSON:

FBI collected info, Processed by coroner and others with expertese in DNA, confirming the passengers and other victims.

IRRATIONAL (All of them) CTIST:

The bodies, if they even existed, were planted, after they were killed elsewhere. Or, all the info is fabricated as part of the NWO cover up.

Take your pick of which you believe.

TAM

Pardalis · 11th July 2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by MarcoPolo

My question is, how do the CTers explain that?

They don't. They just avoid it altogether. I've never seen a Twoofer answer that question.

JamesB · 11th July 2007, 10:33 AM

I made a post on this months ago at SLC, but I have never got a direct response from a conspiracy theorist on the matter. They are very good at shutting up when the evidence is inconvenient.

Rahne Everson · 11th July 2007, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

The mind-boggling thing about this to me is, the remains of ALL of the passengers on Flight 77 (except one infant) were found IN THE PENTAGON. How can any sane person conclude anything other than that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon?

Lyte goes on about chain of custody for the DNA, yada yada yada.. how many more people would faking the DNA results add to the already Impossibly Vast Conspiracy? (apologies to Pomeroo)

Merc and Lyte seem to believe that the only evidence of people on the Flight 77 was the passenger manifest. In my conversatins with them they don't even talk about the human remains. Hell I've seen the picures of them, c'mon.

Of course, Merc thinks the photos of plane wreckage aren't real, so why not the ones of body parts.

T.A.M. · 11th July 2007, 02:04 PM

If you can't find it on a google search, it must be planted or fabricated by the USG...right...right?

lol

TAM

Arus808 · 11th July 2007, 02:30 PM

well lyte and merc both seem to dont care anyway. no amount of evidence will convince those frauds of anything.

they are still continuing to push their lies on the myspace forums. rearing their ugly heads to bump old threads in the News & Politics forums to promote their fraud film. just today they bumped a thread there that was "dead" from march of this year.

all they are , as has been demonstrated over and over by their insensitive antics, are attention seeking disturbed individuals. unfortunatley myspace is a meeting ground for the ignorant.

and Merc and Lyte have both stated that a list of names isn't evidence. Yes, that is their answer when you ask "What about the DNA evidence found".

T.A.M. · 11th July 2007, 02:44 PM

like i said, these morons seem to think that the coroner should invite them in, teach them about PCR and DNA analysis, and then show them the results confirming the dead...otherwise, as far as they are concerned, it is falsified and planted...lame idiots.

TAM

Arus808 · 11th July 2007, 02:45 PM

yup Lyte/Merc just replied to a post at Myspace concerning the DNA evidence:

Originally Posted by The PentaCon (the documentary)

Again, an article about DNA collection is not proof of anything. All "8000" of those people were easily fooled at the time, not complicit.

They never address the DNA found; they only address anything WRITTEN about the DNA found at the pentagon.

T.A.M. · 11th July 2007, 02:49 PM

these little twirps are so egotistical as to think that they have the right to see DNA, or have the coroner call them and invite them over to see it...F&*King insane arrogant obnoxious idiots.

TAM

Arus808 · 11th July 2007, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

these little twirps are so egotistical as to think that they have the right to see DNA, or have the coroner call them and invite them over to see it...F&*King insane arrogant obnoxious idiots.

TAM

by their obtuse logic, they should be contesting EVERY court case that uses DNA evidence to prove or support what happened in a crime.

since all DNA reports are on paper and given to the court; the actual DNA is never presented.

their double standards is truly mind numbing.

funny how these reports were enough to help convict Moussaoui; yet not enough for lyte and merc.

T.A.M. · 11th July 2007, 03:01 PM

yes, but they also believe the judges, and all those concerned in that matter were "In on it".

TAM

Thunder · 11th July 2007, 03:57 PM

CTist asks "how is that human remains survived the crash but most steel and aluminum parts of the plane did not?"

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Please keep in mind, though, that reality does not equal the sum of the photos you've seen.
No, you couldn't do that, and this time I'm not going to tell you why. If you're interested in learning about the forensics of 9/11, you'll find many resources at the forensics section of my site, linked in my signature.

Thanks for the link direction.
By the way, would you happen to know off hand how big the 'American' letters were on a 757? I've read 1.2 meters, but I only found one source, and it was questionable.

Reality Believer · 12th July 2007, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Thanks for the link direction.
By the way, would you happen to know off hand how big the 'American' letters were on a 757? I've read 1.2 meters, but I only found one source, and it was questionable.

BZZZT! Inscrutable detail alert!

Are you suggesting that the American Airlines logo, that you believe is on a piece of debris, is slightly out of scale?

This is the rabbit hole that truthers try to lead people down. Inscrutable detail after inscrutable detail without considering the big picture. It can be endless.

Please consider the big picture.

boloboffin · 12th July 2007, 12:49 AM

Something I just thought about - the two videos released by the Pentagon (the security cameras) prove that no one was planting debris on the lawn. When combined with the other pictures of the day taken just after the explosion, they show that no one had any time to plant any evidence.

DA, that large piece of airplane facade had to come from whatever crashed into the Pentagon.

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Something I just thought about - the two videos released by the Pentagon (the security cameras) prove that no one was planting debris on the lawn. When combined with the other pictures of the day taken just after the explosion, they show that no one had any time to plant any evidence.

DA, that large piece of airplane facade had to come from whatever crashed into the Pentagon.

That is not the piece I was referring to. And I was not led to the observation by a 'truther' site. I made the observation in a link that Gravy provided.
(Flight 77 Pentagon section)
The only source of the size of the lettering led me to a truther site that is why I am asking for another source. (If there is one)

I wanted to know the scale of the letters because the 'C' against that wall looks only slightly bigger than a Ford Van's wheel. That seems odd to me.
I am not implying anything, but I would like to know the scale of the lettering.

PhantomWolf · 12th July 2007, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Something I just thought about - the two videos released by the Pentagon (the security cameras) prove that no one was planting debris on the lawn. When combined with the other pictures of the day taken just after the explosion, they show that no one had any time to plant any evidence.

That's because they think there are just 4 frames and don't bother looking any further.

Pardalis · 12th July 2007, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

I am not implying anything, but I would like to know the scale of the lettering.

Why?

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Why?

Because if the scale is correct I can move on to other things in the research. I am not going to just bypass something that seems out of place. That would be foolish.

Pardalis · 12th July 2007, 01:13 AM

We call that "anomaly hunting".

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

We call that "anomaly hunting".

Ok, so....

I did not 'hunt' it, it kind of jumped out at me as I was looking at the photographs on Gravy's site.
Am I supposed to ignore it? If so, why should I ignore it?

PhantomWolf · 12th July 2007, 01:35 AM

Pardalis, not all questions are asked with an ulterior motive.

Pardalis · 12th July 2007, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Am I supposed to ignore it? If so, why should I ignore it?

Do as you please, waste your time for all I care. If you look closely, maybe you'll find craters on the moon suspicious...

But remember that the forensic and physical evidence overwhelmingly shows that flight 77 did crash there.

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Do as you please, waste your time for all I care. If you look closely, maybe you'll find craters on the moon suspicious...

But remember that the forensic and physical evidence overwhelmingly shows that flight 77 did crash there.

I am seriously at a loss for words.

DGM · 12th July 2007, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Because if the scale is correct I can move on to other things in the research. I am not going to just bypass something that seems out of place. That would be foolish.

The problem with trying to scale from that photo is perspective. The "C" is farther from the camera and the piece is bent. Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object.

Also for it to be out of place it would have had to been place there in plain view of lots of people (and security camera).

negativ · 12th July 2007, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Do as you please, waste your time for all I care. If you look closely, maybe you'll find craters on the moon suspicious...

But remember that the forensic and physical evidence overwhelmingly shows that flight 77 did crash there.

Actually, a drunken Kennedy crashed a golf cart into it, but 9/11 was fabricated to cover it up.

I mean, which is more of a stretch, that a Kennedy got drunk and wrecked something, or that a bunch of cavemen flew Blue Angels-style aerobatic maneuvers to kill themselves on purpose? Not one witness reported seeing any Arabs on flying carpets. Case closed.

/CTer

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by DGM

The problem with trying to scale from that photo is perspective. The "C" is farther from the camera and the piece is bent. Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object.

Also for it to be out of place it would have had to been place there in plain view of lots of people (and security camera).

Yes, I understand that. (Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object)
But it still seems like it is nowhere near the size it should be.
Three to three and a half feet or so? Not even close.
That is why I want to know the dimension's of the letters to see if I am off with the dimensions I have seen. (From a source that is pushing agenda)

Some may believe it to be unimportant, but it is bugging me, and I am the type that gets hung on something until it is resolved. OCD?

apathoid · 12th July 2007, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

I wanted to know the scale of the letters because the 'C' against that wall looks only slightly bigger than a Ford Van's wheel. That seems odd to me.
I am not implying anything, but I would like to know the scale of the lettering.

To my eyes, the "c" looks to be around 2.5-3 ft tall. Almost as tall as the door on the right is wide....

http://911myths.com/assets/images/db...Debris_171.jpg

Now let us off the hook and tell us you were joking.......please.

edit: just opened the above image in Photoshop and the "c" is around 5-10% wider than the door on the right, or about 35-40".

DGM · 12th July 2007, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Yes, I understand that. (Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object)
But it still seems like it is nowhere near the size it should be.
Three to three and a half feet or so? Not even close.
That is why I want to know the dimension's of the letters to see if I am off with the dimensions I have seen. (From a source that is pushing agenda)

Some may believe it to be unimportant, but it is bugging me, and I am the type that gets hung on something until it is resolved. OCD?

Maybe compairing to pictures of other American (757)jets might help.

Is this the picture in question? the "c" looks nearly folded in half.

Rahne Everson · 12th July 2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Arus808

they are still continuing to push their lies on the myspace forums. rearing their ugly heads to bump old threads in the News & Politics forums to promote their fraud film. just today they bumped a thread there that was "dead" from march of this year.

Exactly, which is why I bumped the thread "Things that are better than another CT thread on the front page"

But yes, they're bonkers. Merc needs some serious professional help, I'd be frightened to be in thesame room as him.

Dave Rogers · 12th July 2007, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by DGM

Maybe compairing to pictures of other American (757)jets might help.

Is this the picture in question? the "c" looks nearly folded in half.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...64a356bf44.jpg

I'm no expert on photo interpretation, but if you look at the angle of the wall behind the Ford, it's clear that there's a lot of foreshortening in this shot, and the debris is actually significantly further away than the truck. Maybe that accounts for the size discrepancy, if there is one.

Dave

Devil's Advocate · 12th July 2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by apathoid

To my eyes, the "c" looks to be around 2.5-3 ft tall. Almost as tall as the door on the right is wide....

http://911myths.com/assets/images/db...Debris_171.jpg

Now let us off the hook and tell us you were joking.......please.

edit: just opened the above image in Photoshop and the "c" is around 5-10% wider than the door on the right, or about 35-40".

Yeah, see, that picture just makes it worse.
Let you off the hook? Not a chance. You will suffer as I do.
Wait a second....You're NWO!

Moloch!

I'm on to you!

twinstead · 12th July 2007, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rahne Everson

But yes, they're bonkers. Merc needs some serious professional help, I'd be frightened to be in thesame room as him.

Well, when I first read your post thesame looked just like threesome, and I remember stopping right there and thinking to myself "yea, that would be frightening, but what a weird thing to say...".

Then I reread it; I feel much better now.

10th July 2007, 11:57 PM	#1
MarcoPolo Student Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 32	Human Remains at Pentagon I just recently saw the chart (Thanks Gravy!) with all the blue ovals showing where the human remains were found in the Pentagon. My question is, how do the CTers explain that? It seems to me you can't argue that. How many people were searching for bodies? How many times did they stop once they found some remains to make sure they handled it all properly? How many people would have to be in on this conspiracy? It boggles my mind.
MarcoPolo Student Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 32

11th July 2007, 12:03 AM	#2
jhunter1163 beer-swilling semiliterate Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes. Posts: 25,291	The mind-boggling thing about this to me is, the remains of ALL of the passengers on Flight 77 (except one infant) were found IN THE PENTAGON. How can any sane person conclude anything other than that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? Lyte goes on about chain of custody for the DNA, yada yada yada.. how many more people would faking the DNA results add to the already Impossibly Vast Conspiracy? (apologies to Pomeroo)
	__________________ A møøse ønce bit my sister

11th July 2007, 01:54 AM	#4
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,072	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate Well, to play off my forum name.... Most of the bodies I've seen were people that were already in the Pentagon. (One I recall even has a badge you can clearly see on his left chest.) Please keep in mind, though, that reality does not equal the sum of the photos you've seen. Quote: "When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him. 'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.' Rescue Commander U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams "I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats." Capt. Jim Ingledue , Virginia Beach Fire Dept Quote: Ok, so you get the list of passenger names, call up family members for blood samples to be used for DNA matching. Take a blood sample of the family member, drop some of their blood into 'unknown sample vile #1', and what do you know...it matches! I doubt there would be any record of the samples or DNA matching process that would not be text based only. So how would you ever know if there was not a cover up or manipulation of evidence? Of course that opens up a lot more questions, like "why not just fly the plane into the building in the first place?".... but that was not your question. No, you couldn't do that, and this time I'm not going to tell you why. If you're interested in learning about the forensics of 9/11, you'll find many resources at the forensics section of my site, linked in my signature.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

11th July 2007, 06:15 AM	#5
Anti-sophist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,542	and who collected those samples?!? THE FBI@??? AND THEY HAVE _NEVER_ LIED BEFORE HAVE THEY?? lol!!!! --------- I bring up the passenger DNA problem to the truthers all the time when they want to talk flight 77 and they always have some variation on this particular line of circular logic. You need to assume a conspiracy exists a priori in order to be able to selectively remove evidence you don't like when trying to prove the conspiracy.
	__________________ A witty saying proves nothing. -Voltaire Last edited by Anti-sophist; 11th July 2007 at 06:17 AM.

11th July 2007, 07:11 AM	#7
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 9,997	Linky: http://www.afip.org/Departments/lega...2002/kelly.htm Quote: A multi-disciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) played a major role in one of the most comprehensive forensic investigations in United States history following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack at the Pentagon in Virginia, just outside Washington, DC. Quote: Code-named "Operation Noble Eagle," AFIP’s team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for over two weeks at the Dover Air Force Base Port Mortuary at Dover, Delaware to identify the 188 victims of the attack. "Our staff represented every branch of the service," said AFIP Director Glenn N. Wagner, CAPT, MC, USN, who served as senior officer during the operation. Why don't the conspiracy liars just contact a few of the folks mentioned in this report? Why not drop by any Metro D.C. fire house and interview a few of the firefighter that saw the bodies? As for the FBI, why are they lying when they say they saw AA77 passenger bodies at the Pentagon but telling the truth when know the "real reasons" OBL isn't on the most wanted list?
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

11th July 2007, 12:37 AM	#3
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by MarcoPolo I just recently saw the chart (Thanks Gravy!) with all the blue ovals showing where the human remains were found in the Pentagon. My question is, how do the CTers explain that? It seems to me you can't argue that. How many people were searching for bodies? How many times did they stop once they found some remains to make sure they handled it all properly? How many people would have to be in on this conspiracy? It boggles my mind. Well, to play off my forum name.... Most of the bodies I've seen were people that were already in the Pentagon. (One I recall even has a badge you can clearly see on his left chest.) Ok, so you get the list of passenger names, call up family members for blood samples to be used for DNA matching. Take a blood sample of the family member, drop some of their blood into 'unknown sample vile #1', and what do you know...it matches! I doubt there would be any record of the samples or DNA matching process that would not be text based only. So how would you ever know if there was not a cover up or manipulation of evidence? Of course that opens up a lot more questions, like "why not just fly the plane into the building in the first place?".... but that was not your question.

11th July 2007, 06:56 AM	#6
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 25,832	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate Well, to play off my forum name.... Most of the bodies I've seen were people that were already in the Pentagon. (One I recall even has a badge you can clearly see on his left chest.) Ok, so you get the list of passenger names, call up family members for blood samples to be used for DNA matching. Take a blood sample of the family member, drop some of their blood into 'unknown sample vile #1', and what do you know...it matches! I doubt there would be any record of the samples or DNA matching process that would not be text based only. So how would you ever know if there was not a cover up or manipulation of evidence? Of course that opens up a lot more questions, like "why not just fly the plane into the building in the first place?".... but that was not your question. Sad questions only a truther would find merit in. Sad event, disrespectful idoits and how did the education system fail, how can the few become so dumb? What is up?

11th July 2007, 10:12 AM	#8
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	MarcoPolo: What do you do when confronted with the body locations... RATIONAL SANE PERSON: FBI collected info, Processed by coroner and others with expertese in DNA, confirming the passengers and other victims. IRRATIONAL (All of them) CTIST: The bodies, if they even existed, were planted, after they were killed elsewhere. Or, all the info is fabricated as part of the NWO cover up. Take your pick of which you believe. TAM

11th July 2007, 10:14 AM	#9
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817	Originally Posted by MarcoPolo My question is, how do the CTers explain that? They don't. They just avoid it altogether. I've never seen a Twoofer answer that question.
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

11th July 2007, 10:33 AM	#10
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,152	I made a post on this months ago at SLC, but I have never got a direct response from a conspiracy theorist on the matter. They are very good at shutting up when the evidence is inconvenient.
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,152	__________________ I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago. -David Ray Griffin-

11th July 2007, 10:38 AM	#11
Rahne Everson Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 277	Originally Posted by jhunter1163 The mind-boggling thing about this to me is, the remains of ALL of the passengers on Flight 77 (except one infant) were found IN THE PENTAGON. How can any sane person conclude anything other than that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? Lyte goes on about chain of custody for the DNA, yada yada yada.. how many more people would faking the DNA results add to the already Impossibly Vast Conspiracy? (apologies to Pomeroo) Merc and Lyte seem to believe that the only evidence of people on the Flight 77 was the passenger manifest. In my conversatins with them they don't even talk about the human remains. Hell I've seen the picures of them, c'mon. Of course, Merc thinks the photos of plane wreckage aren't real, so why not the ones of body parts.
	__________________ The 9/11 Anti-Truth Movement: Spreading the Official Disinformation and Lies About the September 11th Attacks (and other conspiracy theories) "I can't believe it's not 9/11 Truth!"

11th July 2007, 02:04 PM	#12
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	If you can't find it on a google search, it must be planted or fabricated by the USG...right...right? lol TAM

11th July 2007, 02:30 PM	#13
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,204	well lyte and merc both seem to dont care anyway. no amount of evidence will convince those frauds of anything. they are still continuing to push their lies on the myspace forums. rearing their ugly heads to bump old threads in the News & Politics forums to promote their fraud film. just today they bumped a thread there that was "dead" from march of this year. all they are , as has been demonstrated over and over by their insensitive antics, are attention seeking disturbed individuals. unfortunatley myspace is a meeting ground for the ignorant. and Merc and Lyte have both stated that a list of names isn't evidence. Yes, that is their answer when you ask "What about the DNA evidence found".
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,204	__________________ Back home with a new sunburn...I look like a tomato. “Life may begin at 30, but it doesn’t get real interesting until about 150.” “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.”

11th July 2007, 02:44 PM	#14
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	like i said, these morons seem to think that the coroner should invite them in, teach them about PCR and DNA analysis, and then show them the results confirming the dead...otherwise, as far as they are concerned, it is falsified and planted...lame idiots. TAM

11th July 2007, 02:45 PM	#15
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,204	yup Lyte/Merc just replied to a post at Myspace concerning the DNA evidence: Originally Posted by The PentaCon (the documentary) Again, an article about DNA collection is not proof of anything. All "8000" of those people were easily fooled at the time, not complicit. They never address the DNA found; they only address anything WRITTEN about the DNA found at the pentagon.
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,204	__________________ Back home with a new sunburn...I look like a tomato. “Life may begin at 30, but it doesn’t get real interesting until about 150.” “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.” Last edited by Arus808; 11th July 2007 at 02:48 PM.

11th July 2007, 02:49 PM	#16
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	these little twirps are so egotistical as to think that they have the right to see DNA, or have the coroner call them and invite them over to see it...F&*King insane arrogant obnoxious idiots. TAM

11th July 2007, 02:55 PM	#17
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,204	Originally Posted by T.A.M. these little twirps are so egotistical as to think that they have the right to see DNA, or have the coroner call them and invite them over to see it...F&*King insane arrogant obnoxious idiots. TAM by their obtuse logic, they should be contesting EVERY court case that uses DNA evidence to prove or support what happened in a crime. since all DNA reports are on paper and given to the court; the actual DNA is never presented. their double standards is truly mind numbing. funny how these reports were enough to help convict Moussaoui; yet not enough for lyte and merc.
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,204	__________________ Back home with a new sunburn...I look like a tomato. “Life may begin at 30, but it doesn’t get real interesting until about 150.” “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.”

11th July 2007, 03:01 PM	#18
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	yes, but they also believe the judges, and all those concerned in that matter were "In on it". TAM

11th July 2007, 03:57 PM	#19
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 34,918	CTist asks "how is that human remains survived the crash but most steel and aluminum parts of the plane did not?"
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 34,918

12th July 2007, 12:21 AM	#20
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by Gravy Please keep in mind, though, that reality does not equal the sum of the photos you've seen. No, you couldn't do that, and this time I'm not going to tell you why. If you're interested in learning about the forensics of 9/11, you'll find many resources at the forensics section of my site, linked in my signature. Thanks for the link direction. By the way, would you happen to know off hand how big the 'American' letters were on a 757? I've read 1.2 meters, but I only found one source, and it was questionable.

12th July 2007, 12:35 AM	#21
Reality Believer Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 716	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate Thanks for the link direction. By the way, would you happen to know off hand how big the 'American' letters were on a 757? I've read 1.2 meters, but I only found one source, and it was questionable. BZZZT! Inscrutable detail alert! Are you suggesting that the American Airlines logo, that you believe is on a piece of debris, is slightly out of scale? This is the rabbit hole that truthers try to lead people down. Inscrutable detail after inscrutable detail without considering the big picture. It can be endless. Please consider the big picture.
Reality Believer Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 716

12th July 2007, 12:49 AM	#22
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,986	Something I just thought about - the two videos released by the Pentagon (the security cameras) prove that no one was planting debris on the lawn. When combined with the other pictures of the day taken just after the explosion, they show that no one had any time to plant any evidence. DA, that large piece of airplane facade had to come from whatever crashed into the Pentagon.
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,986

12th July 2007, 01:00 AM	#23
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by boloboffin Something I just thought about - the two videos released by the Pentagon (the security cameras) prove that no one was planting debris on the lawn. When combined with the other pictures of the day taken just after the explosion, they show that no one had any time to plant any evidence. DA, that large piece of airplane facade had to come from whatever crashed into the Pentagon. That is not the piece I was referring to. And I was not led to the observation by a 'truther' site. I made the observation in a link that Gravy provided. (Flight 77 Pentagon section) The only source of the size of the lettering led me to a truther site that is why I am asking for another source. (If there is one) I wanted to know the scale of the letters because the 'C' against that wall looks only slightly bigger than a Ford Van's wheel. That seems odd to me. I am not implying anything, but I would like to know the scale of the lettering.

12th July 2007, 01:02 AM	#24
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,271	Originally Posted by boloboffin Something I just thought about - the two videos released by the Pentagon (the security cameras) prove that no one was planting debris on the lawn. When combined with the other pictures of the day taken just after the explosion, they show that no one had any time to plant any evidence. That's because they think there are just 4 frames and don't bother looking any further.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

12th July 2007, 01:12 AM	#26
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by Pardalis Why? Because if the scale is correct I can move on to other things in the research. I am not going to just bypass something that seems out of place. That would be foolish.

12th July 2007, 01:13 AM	#27
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817	We call that "anomaly hunting".
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

12th July 2007, 01:24 AM	#28
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by Pardalis We call that "anomaly hunting". Ok, so.... I did not 'hunt' it, it kind of jumped out at me as I was looking at the photographs on Gravy's site. Am I supposed to ignore it? If so, why should I ignore it?

12th July 2007, 01:35 AM	#29
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,271	Pardalis, not all questions are asked with an ulterior motive.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

12th July 2007, 01:37 AM	#30
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate Am I supposed to ignore it? If so, why should I ignore it? Do as you please, waste your time for all I care. If you look closely, maybe you'll find craters on the moon suspicious... But remember that the forensic and physical evidence overwhelmingly shows that flight 77 did crash there.
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

12th July 2007, 01:42 AM	#31
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by Pardalis Do as you please, waste your time for all I care. If you look closely, maybe you'll find craters on the moon suspicious... But remember that the forensic and physical evidence overwhelmingly shows that flight 77 did crash there. I am seriously at a loss for words.

12th July 2007, 06:08 AM	#32
DGM Skeptic not Atheist Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 24,726	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate Because if the scale is correct I can move on to other things in the research. I am not going to just bypass something that seems out of place. That would be foolish. The problem with trying to scale from that photo is perspective. The "C" is farther from the camera and the piece is bent. Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object. Also for it to be out of place it would have had to been place there in plain view of lots of people (and security camera).

12th July 2007, 08:10 AM	#33
negativ Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,904	Originally Posted by Pardalis Do as you please, waste your time for all I care. If you look closely, maybe you'll find craters on the moon suspicious... But remember that the forensic and physical evidence overwhelmingly shows that flight 77 did crash there. Actually, a drunken Kennedy crashed a golf cart into it, but 9/11 was fabricated to cover it up. I mean, which is more of a stretch, that a Kennedy got drunk and wrecked something, or that a bunch of cavemen flew Blue Angels-style aerobatic maneuvers to kill themselves on purpose? Not one witness reported seeing any Arabs on flying carpets. Case closed. /CTer
negativ Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,904	__________________ A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals. Eternal salvation or TRIPLE your money back! Last edited by negativ; 12th July 2007 at 08:15 AM.

12th July 2007, 08:21 AM	#34
Devil's Advocate Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 325	Originally Posted by DGM The problem with trying to scale from that photo is perspective. The "C" is farther from the camera and the piece is bent. Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object. Also for it to be out of place it would have had to been place there in plain view of lots of people (and security camera). Yes, I understand that. (Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object) But it still seems like it is nowhere near the size it should be. Three to three and a half feet or so? Not even close. That is why I want to know the dimension's of the letters to see if I am off with the dimensions I have seen. (From a source that is pushing agenda) Some may believe it to be unimportant, but it is bugging me, and I am the type that gets hung on something until it is resolved. OCD?

12th July 2007, 08:29 AM	#35
apathoid Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,918	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate I wanted to know the scale of the letters because the 'C' against that wall looks only slightly bigger than a Ford Van's wheel. That seems odd to me. I am not implying anything, but I would like to know the scale of the lettering. To my eyes, the "c" looks to be around 2.5-3 ft tall. Almost as tall as the door on the right is wide.... http://911myths.com/assets/images/db...Debris_171.jpg Now let us off the hook and tell us you were joking.......please. edit: just opened the above image in Photoshop and the "c" is around 5-10% wider than the door on the right, or about 35-40".
apathoid Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,918	Last edited by apathoid; 12th July 2007 at 08:36 AM. Reason: added something

12th July 2007, 08:37 AM	#36
DGM Skeptic not Atheist Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 24,726	Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate Yes, I understand that. (Being a 2 dimensional view it becomes difficult to get an accurate scale of the object) But it still seems like it is nowhere near the size it should be. Three to three and a half feet or so? Not even close. That is why I want to know the dimension's of the letters to see if I am off with the dimensions I have seen. (From a source that is pushing agenda) Some may believe it to be unimportant, but it is bugging me, and I am the type that gets hung on something until it is resolved. OCD? Maybe compairing to pictures of other American (757)jets might help. Is this the picture in question? the "c" looks nearly folded in half.