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Old 16th July 2007, 03:11 AM   #1
Revolutionary91
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Thom Hartmann radio 9/11 debate

Thom Hartmann of Air America radio is trying to organize a debate on his show between CT's and debunkers. Unfortunately he can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory. The debunkers are obviously scared.

Would anyone here like to man up?
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:21 AM   #2
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Unfortunately he can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory. The debunkers are obviously scared.
Your leap in logic is bordering pathetic.

How do you go to the conclusion that "debunkers haven't been heard from... therefore debunkers are scared"? That would first assume that:

a) Debunkers had even heard of this challenge (which I doubt many have)
b) Debunkers had declined the challenge

So please, which debunkers have declined the challenge so far. Also, what reasons did they give.

Please, take your propaganda elsewhere.

Someone quote me on this, seeing as Rev91 ignored me as soon as I started applying pressure to his theories.
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Thom Hartmann of Air America radio is trying to organize a debate on his show between CT's and debunkers. Unfortunately he can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory. The debunkers are obviously scared.

Would anyone here like to man up?
No, R91, no one here is scared of stupid ideas, but we often do deem the people who spread them to be a waste of time, and we often don't want to draw more attention to them. Have you noticed that many of us put our thoughts and evidence in writing? I'm still waiting for the hundred or so promised rebuttals to my papers.

So, who are the participating conspiracists?
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Last edited by Gravy; 16th July 2007 at 03:26 AM. Reason: tpyo
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Doc View Post
Someone quote me on this, seeing as Rev91 ignored me as soon as I started applying pressure to his theories.
I'd quote you, but I'm also on ignore.

Interesting that the first two people who responded to him have put a LOT of their research in writing, and he's chosen to ignore them.

So who's afraid again?
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:28 AM   #5
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Oh dear...2 responses from people on my ignore list.

Here is some more information, which I assume is what you have asked for, in between the insults and condescension.

Quote:
Hartmann tasked his producer approximately 6 months ago to find a well-known defender of the OCT to accept the terms of the debate, and not a single one would. On Friday, June 15, Hartmann renewed his challenge on air, and noted that the problem seems to lay with the OCT defenders, who won't come on the show at the same time as the skeptics, and won't take calls from the public following a few rounds of debate.
On Monday, June 18, Hartmann renewed the call again;
"I mentioned on the program a couple days ago that we tried to put together a program about 9/11 where we wanted to get on the folks from Popular Mechanics, or some variation, someone who would take the position of the 9/11 Commission... and get some representatives from the 9/11 Truth community of one of its variations, and Dave, my producer came on and said we couldn't find anybody who would come on and debate.
First of all we can't find anybody, NOBODY has contacted us (on the OCT side), and we've contacted a number of them, the magazine (Popular Mechanics) wouldn't do it... would come on and take that position, and so... to have somebody come on and say, "it was a controlled demolition", and not to have somebody on the other side say, "no, wait a minute, here", it wouldn't be a discussion, it just be... bad.
It's amazing, I've gotten several hundred emails over the last couple days in consequence of that, many of them people saying, "I'd be glad to come on", I'd be glad to debate... all of them on the conspiracy side of it...
http://www.911blogger.com/node/9431
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:28 AM   #6
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Don't worry, I'm sure Rev91 has read all three posts.
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Oh dear...2 responses from people on my ignore list.

Here is some more information, which I assume is what you have asked for, in between the insults and condescension.



http://www.911blogger.com/node/9431

How much are they paying?
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:30 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
I'd quote you, but I'm also on ignore.

Interesting that the first two people who responded to him have put a LOT of their research in writing, and he's chosen to ignore them.

So who's afraid again?
I'm on ignore also. Make that three.

And about manning up. How about you?
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:32 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Oh dear...2 responses from people on my ignore list.

Here is some more information, which I assume is what you have asked for, in between the insults and condescension.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/9431
You didn't answer my question. Who are the participating conspiracists?
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:35 AM   #10
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CHF claimed that Griffin was scared to debate and that is why he is stalling with the Hardfire debate. Well, Griffin has agreed to do this and noone from the debunker side will do it. Kevin Ryan has also said he will do it but Popular Mechanics refused to debate him, even though they happily debated Dylan and Jason. It is obvious which side is scared.
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
CHF claimed that Griffin was scared to debate and that is why he is stalling with the Hardfire debate. Well, Griffin has agreed to do this and noone from the debunker side will do it. Kevin Ryan has also said he will do it but Popular Mechanics refused to debate him, even though they happily debated Dylan and Jason. It is obvious which side is scared.
Griffin and Ryan? I'm in. You run over there and let them know.
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:41 AM   #12
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I am sure Ron Wieck and Gravy would have a few words about Griffin and Ryan accepting debates! They were both invited onto Hardfire, and the only reason Griffin finally accepted is because he was simply being interviewed, and not facing opposition. Even then, he is still trying to weasel his way out of it.

Now I know you are reading mine and Gravy's posts, so make sure you tell your little friends that one of us has accepted.
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Old 16th July 2007, 04:28 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Oh dear...2 responses from people on my ignore list.

Here is some more information, which I assume is what you have asked for, in between the insults and condescension.



http://www.911blogger.com/node/9431
So where does it say who specifically was contacted, and that their reason was that they are "scared?" It seems to say that no one has responded to them from the Popular Mechanics, with no names given. As hard as it may be for people who spend much of their time on internet forums to understand, the writers for Popular Mechanics have jobs and families, and considering the amount of grief they have to endure everytime this subject comes up I can't imagine anyone being very anxious to go through it again. Unless you are willing to pay for their time (this is true for people like DRG as well), why should they waste it?
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Old 16th July 2007, 04:30 AM   #14
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Wait, AirAmerica was trying to host a debate?

Crap marketing is CRAP!
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Old 16th July 2007, 04:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Thom Hartmann of Air America radio is trying to organize a debate on his show between CT's and debunkers. Unfortunately he can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory. The debunkers are obviously scared.

Would anyone here like to man up?
Rev:

I know you are only 15, but if you are going to come here and try to argue like an adult, with adults, could you try and act a little more grown up. Noone here is afraid to debate. Most of us, unlike the CTers such as Griffin and Fetzer etc..., do not make 9/11 our career. I have a job that keeps be busy Mon-Fri 9-5.

Several times now, you have acted very juvenile, calling people scared, declaring victory for others, etc, and it is neither becoming, nor does it help your cause. Granted you certainly will encounter alot of hostility here, but you have come to 9/11 debunking forum, so that is to be expected, but to retaliate with childishness is not going to do anything but make you feel better. If we wanted to encounter your type of behavior, we would go over to the LCF, where such comments and actions are common place.

TAM
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Old 16th July 2007, 04:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Rev:

I know you are only 15, but if you are going to come here and try to argue like an adult, with adults, could you try and act a little more grown up. Noone here is afraid to debate. Most of us, unlike the CTers such as Griffin and Fetzer etc..., do not make 9/11 our career. I have a job that keeps be busy Mon-Fri 9-5.

Several times now, you have acted very juvenile, calling people scared, declaring victory for others, etc, and it is neither becoming, nor does it help your cause. Granted you certainly will encounter alot of hostility here, but you have come to 9/11 debunking forum, so that is to be expected, but to retaliate with childishness is not going to do anything but make you feel better. If we wanted to encounter your type of behavior, we would go over to the LCF, where such comments and actions are common place.

TAM
Well said.

However, seeing as you have posted a statement of fact, I feel that Rev91 will probably now have a tantrum and ignore you (if he hasn't already).
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Old 16th July 2007, 05:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Griffin and Ryan? I'm in. You run over there and let them know.
Quoted for R91 - as far as I know I'm not on his ignore list because I've never had any interaction with him at all. R91, Mark Roberts has offered to come on the program - your move.

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Old 16th July 2007, 05:09 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Quoted for R91 - as far as I know I'm not on his ignore list because I've never had any interaction with him at all. R91, Mark Roberts has offered to come on the program - your move.

Dave
What do you mean its my move? I don't have any affiliation with him. If Gravy wants to go on he can easily contact Mr Hartmann.

I doubt Gravy will do it though, when he will be taking calls from the public.

On second thoughts I will tell Hartmann. What is Gravys email?
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Old 16th July 2007, 05:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Would anyone here like to man up?
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Mark Roberts has offered to come on the program - your move.
Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
What do you mean its my move?
You asked a question. You got an answer to that question. It's up to you what you want to do with that answer.

Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
On second thoughts I will tell Hartmann. What is Gravys email?
I suggest you take him off ignore and ask him yourself.

Dave
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Old 16th July 2007, 05:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Doc View Post
Well said.

However, seeing as you have posted a statement of fact, I feel that Rev91 will probably now have a tantrum and ignore you (if he hasn't already).
He says he has put me on ignore. We were in another thread and TC329 called someone an "idiot" so I reported it, along with DGM who also did so. I guess, in some act of chest pounding, Rev decided that this was reason enough to put me on ignore. Oh well...whether he read it or not, I doubt he will change, but you never know, one can always hope.

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Old 16th July 2007, 05:25 AM   #21
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I found Gravys email. I have emailed David, the producer of the show, with Gravys details and a copy of this thread.
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Old 16th July 2007, 06:55 AM   #22
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Even though I know Gravy can take them all on by himself, it would be nice to get one of our engineers or physics majors to sign on...only time will tell. Has anyone asked Newton's Bit? Rwguinn? etc...

TAM
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:03 AM   #23
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I think I'm on ignore, but has anyone shown Revolutionary91 the Gravy vs. The Loose Change Boys debate?
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:05 AM   #24
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I emailed Air America and got no response back. I'd love to join in. This will be fun.
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:10 AM   #25
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Well, let Rev know, and maybe they can get you involved through him...Also, they probably need sometime before they get back to you.

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Old 16th July 2007, 07:20 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Well, let Rev know, and maybe they can get you involved through him...Also, they probably need sometime before they get back to you.

TAM
I emailed them weeks ago. More than enough time for them to at least acknowlege receipt of the email.

So rev, how about it? Pass on the word that there are several OTers that want to be a part of the debate.
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:23 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by lapman View Post
I emailed them weeks ago. More than enough time for them to at least acknowlege receipt of the email.

So rev, how about it? Pass on the word that there are several OTers that want to be a part of the debate.
I have emailed the link to this thread to the producer. If you emailed them weeks ago did you not think to tell your fellow debunkers that the debate was planned?
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Thom Hartmann of Air America radio is trying to organize a debate on his show between CT's and debunkers. Unfortunately he can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory. The debunkers are obviously scared.

Would anyone here like to man up?
Hi Revolutionary91. I'm not here to debate you. As I indicated in another thread, I don't debate children, unless the child in question is particularly mature, equipped with facts, and interested in learning -- traits (if you'll forgive me for speaking bluntly) you have yet to indicate you possess in any abundance. Instead, I'd like to offer you a bit of advice so in the future you'll look a little less...well, dorky, not to put too fine a point on it.

Here it is: When attempting to intimidate/challenge a group of people you don't know, I'd suggest avoiding terms like "man up," simply because a lot of your potential audience aren't -- men, that is. I suppose it's understandable that you might forget this, if your previous forum experience consists primarily of 9/11 CTer sites such as Loose Change, where teenage boys seem to predominate and females are relatively few and far between. But here, you can't take for granted that the person you're conversing with isn't a woman. Thus a term like "man up" excludes and even insults a very large percentage of the people you're trying to reach.

So in the future, you might want to pay a little more attention to the female gender. It's the first step in getting them to reciprocate.
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:43 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by lapman View Post
I emailed them weeks ago. More than enough time for them to at least acknowlege receipt of the email.

So rev, how about it? Pass on the word that there are several OTers that want to be a part of the debate.
I don't think you are important enough. Read the small print:

Quote:
Arguably, David Ray Griffin and Kevin Ryan are two of the most well-known and articulate proponents of skepticism of the OCT, therefore, any OCTer willing to go on Hartmann's show should come from the OCT "A-list": NIST, the 9/11 Commission, the US government, or Popular Mechanics.
The "B-list" would be published authors like The Progressive's Matthew Rothschild, Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi, or Counterpunch's Alexander Cockburn. These authors in particular have abused their pulpits, putting out very biased pieces in condemnation of 9/11 skeptics
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Hi Revolutionary91. I'm not here to debate you. As I indicated in another thread, I don't debate children, unless the child in question is particularly mature, equipped with facts, and interested in learning -- traits (if you'll forgive me for speaking bluntly) you have yet to indicate you possess in any abundance. Instead, I'd like to offer you a bit of advice so in the future you'll look a little less...well, dorky, not to put too fine a point on it.

Here it is: When attempting to intimidate/challenge a group of people you don't know, I'd suggest avoiding terms like "man up," simply because a lot of your potential audience aren't -- men, that is. I suppose it's understandable that you might forget this, if your previous forum experience consists primarily of 9/11 CTer sites such as Loose Change, where teenage boys seem to predominate and females are relatively few and far between. But here, you can't take for granted that the person you're conversing with isn't a woman. Thus a term like "man up" excludes and even insults a very large percentage of the people you're trying to reach.

So in the future, you might want to pay a little more attention to the female gender. It's the first step in getting them to reciprocate.
I like the way you assume i'm heterosexual.

I'm afraid I will have to put you on ignore. I am sure you can see why.
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:52 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
I like the way you assume i'm heterosexual.

I'm afraid I will have to put you on ignore. I am sure you can see why.
I assumed you're heterosexual?? Where? Because I advised you to include the female members of your potential audience? Or was it the suggestion that you should pay attention to women, so they may eventually reciprocate that attention? Do you assume all attention must necessarily be sexual?? (OK, you're 15, I'll make allowances in your case.)

And now you've put me on ignore? Well, that's a first, I think. Generally, people find me pretty inoffensive, but whatever...
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:55 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
I don't think you are important enough. Read the small print:
Oh, and by the way: According to this "fine print," few if anyone here would qualify as "important enough" to be accepted in this debate. Thus there was never any point in your coming here and challenging us to "man up." Sorry, but that's being a troll.
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:57 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
I assumed you're heterosexual?? Where? Because I advised you to include the female members of your potential audience? Or was it the suggestion that you should pay attention to women, so they may eventually reciprocate that attention? Do you assume all attention must necessarily be sexual?? (OK, you're 15, I'll make allowances in your case.)

And now you've put me on ignore? Well, that's a first, I think. Generally, people find me pretty inoffensive, but whatever...

It seems that R91’s got half the forum on ignore. Anyone who poses a difficult question or raises certain evidence seems to get the treatment. I suppose the best course of action would be for everyone to return the favour.
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Old 16th July 2007, 07:57 AM   #34
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Insults should at least be original. Just a few hours ago, Dr Adequate realised he couldnt beat me with arguments so he reasorted to saying "eventually you will get laid". Rather pervy that so many adults are discussing sex with a 15 year old on the web.

Incidentally, I reported Dr Adequate's creepy remarks to me and nothing has been done.
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Old 16th July 2007, 08:00 AM   #35
maccy
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
I assumed you're heterosexual?? Where? Because I advised you to include the female members of your potential audience? Or was it the suggestion that you should pay attention to women, so they may eventually reciprocate that attention? Do you assume all attention must necessarily be sexual?? (OK, you're 15, I'll make allowances in your case.)

And now you've put me on ignore? Well, that's a first, I think. Generally, people find me pretty inoffensive, but whatever...
And, if Revoultionary91 was trying to score some nice gay action, I suspect that the phrase "man up" would be equally detrimental to his chances.
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Old 16th July 2007, 08:01 AM   #36
Revolutionary91
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Par, heres the reasons I have people on ignore:

Markyx - Told me to go $%^& myself in his very first post

Gravy - Constant references to my age

Dr Adequate - Reasons given above

etc etc

As you can see, nothing to do with arguments.
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Old 16th July 2007, 08:05 AM   #37
Stellafane
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
...Rather pervy that so many adults are discussing sex with a 15 year old on the web.
No more "pervy" than a flustered 15 year old suddenly injecting sexuality into a discussion where absolutely none existed. You really have no clue about the difference between "sexist" and "sexual" do you?

Damn, I should have known better than get involved in a thread started by a child. I am so outa here.
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Last edited by Stellafane; 16th July 2007 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 16th July 2007, 08:09 AM   #38
lapman
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
I don't think you are important enough. Read the small print:
Then that makes your OP and their claim a lie. It also shows that they are really not interested in a debate. They want to create the environment to make the debunkers look stupid. It probably won't be broadcast live so they can perform some creative editing. So the whole thing is probably bogus.
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Old 16th July 2007, 08:10 AM   #39
mortimer
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
No less "pervy" than a flustered 15 year old suddenly injecting sexuality into a discussion where absolutely none existed. You really have no clue about the difference between "sexist" and "sexual" do you?

Damn, I should have known better than get involved in a thread started by a child. I am so outa here.
<Nigel Tufnel>What's wrong with being sexy?</Nigel Tufnel>
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Old 16th July 2007, 08:14 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Revolutionary91 View Post
Thom Hartmann of Air America radio is trying to organize a debate on his show between CT's and debunkers. Unfortunately he can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory. The debunkers are obviously scared.

Would anyone here like to man up?
Problem 1 with your post
P1: If the debunkers are scared then Thom Hartmann won't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory.
P2: Thom Hartmann can't find anyone to defend the official conspiracy theory.
C: Therefore, the debunkers are scared.

This is called affirming the consequent and is a logical fallacy. This is because there are any number of possible causes for P2. In general form:
P1: If A then B
P2: If C then B
P3: B
C: ?

Problem 2 with your post
There is no "official conspiracy theory" as a conspiracy theory is not the same as a theory that includes a conspiracy
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