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Old 29th July 2007, 05:30 AM   #1
BPSCG
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93-Year-Old Man Shoots Burglar

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EL DORADO, Ark. (AP) - An elderly man beaten unconscious by an assailant wielding a soda can awoke and shot the man during an attempted robbery, police said.

Willie Lee Hill, 93, told police he saw the robber while in his bedroom Wednesday night. Hill confronted the man and was struck at least 50 times, police said. He was knocked unconscious.

Covered in blood, Hill regained consciousness a short time later and pulled a .38-caliber handgun on his attacker. The suspect, Douglas B. Williams Jr., saw the gun and charged the man, who fired a bullet that struck Williams in the throat, police said.

"I got what I deserved," Williams, 24, told police when they arrived, officers said. Investigators reported finding, among other items, a Craftsman drill bit set, three pocket knives and two hearing aids inside his pockets.
Link.
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Old 29th July 2007, 06:05 AM   #2
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Y'know, if someone beat you over the head more than 50 times with any reasonable force, you would be more than unconscious, you would be approaching dead, wouldn't you?

So how hard was he REALLY hit? Pat-a-cake? Bitch-slap?
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Old 29th July 2007, 06:18 AM   #3
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Should have aimed higher, maybe 6 inches.


Congrats to the old guy.
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Old 29th July 2007, 07:23 AM   #4
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When soda cans are outlawed, only outlaws will have soda cans.
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Old 29th July 2007, 07:36 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Learning Phase View Post
Should have aimed higher, maybe 6 inches.


Congrats to the old guy.
Yep.
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Old 29th July 2007, 09:40 AM   #6
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He gets me BAMF of the week vote
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Old 29th July 2007, 10:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Learning Phase View Post
Should have aimed higher, maybe 6 inches.


Congrats to the old guy.
nah, aim center mass and double tap. shoot to stop. the old man probably did just that (minus the double tap)
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Old 29th July 2007, 10:14 AM   #8
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See, guns aren't all bad.
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Old 29th July 2007, 10:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by jsiv View Post
See, guns aren't all bad.
Totally . ..
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Old 29th July 2007, 10:38 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by JJR View Post
Totally . ..

Unless they're in the hands of farmers.
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Old 29th July 2007, 10:43 AM   #11
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If I see an unconscious 93-year-old man with a gun, I'll kill him!
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Old 29th July 2007, 12:36 PM   #12
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Clearly, the robber didn't see the gun ahead of time, or he wouldn't have stopped beating him. So if I see an unconscious 93-year-old man, I'll kill him whether I see a gun or not.
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Old 29th July 2007, 01:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BPSCG View Post
If I see an unconscious 93-year-old man with a gun, I'll kill him!
Careful, you'll have this little gem banned if you proliferate it much more.
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Old 29th July 2007, 06:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BPSCG View Post
If I see an unconscious 93-year-old man with a gun, I'll kill him!
Surely you do not wish to put Claus out of work!!
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Old 29th July 2007, 08:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Y'know, if someone beat you over the head more than 50 times with any reasonable force, you would be more than unconscious, you would be approaching dead, wouldn't you?

So how hard was he REALLY hit? Pat-a-cake? Bitch-slap?
Dear Zep,

I submit that you've been overcharged by Hollywood. Humans mostly fight like animals, and animals fight conservatively. Most strikes aren't going to be particularly harsh. Painful perhaps, but not terribly forceful.

I recall a similar case over a decade ago where a gas station attendant was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher more than twenty times in a vain attempt to "knock him unconscious like in the movies."

Regarding the subject, I regret the assailant was not killed. Perhaps poisoned bullets...

Cpl Ferro
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Old 29th July 2007, 08:25 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Y'know, if someone beat you over the head more than 50 times with any reasonable force, you would be more than unconscious, you would be approaching dead, wouldn't you?

So how hard was he REALLY hit? Pat-a-cake? Bitch-slap?
Hesitation. He was working up the nerve.

Or maybe the old man was just tough as balls. Some people work out, you know.
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Old 29th July 2007, 08:31 PM   #17
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I hope the burglar got better. I mean sure, he's a dick, and his being shot was arguably justifiable, but there's no advantage of having him actually die.
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Old 30th July 2007, 12:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CplFerro View Post
Dear Zep,

I submit that you've been overcharged by Hollywood. Humans mostly fight like animals, and animals fight conservatively. Most strikes aren't going to be particularly harsh. Painful perhaps, but not terribly forceful.

I recall a similar case over a decade ago where a gas station attendant was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher more than twenty times in a vain attempt to "knock him unconscious like in the movies."

Regarding the subject, I regret the assailant was not killed. Perhaps poisoned bullets...

Cpl Ferro
I'm aware of that. So it's pat-a-cake then!
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Old 30th July 2007, 12:45 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
I'm aware of that. So it's pat-a-cake then!
I'm so glad I am better trained that that - don't fight if you don't have to but any fight more than 10 seconds long means either a really even match or play-fighting.
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Old 30th July 2007, 02:28 AM   #20
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Many Americans unshakable resolve towards 'Keeping ma gun, and if you dont like it you can geeet out' is worrying for reasonable Brits like me.

Do you really think Humans are competent enough to keep a gun under the pillow?

That said, gun control seems to be hopeless invention.
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Old 30th July 2007, 02:55 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I'm so glad I am better trained that that - don't fight if you don't have to but any fight more than 10 seconds long means either a really even match or play-fighting.
Agreed. It should really be all over in one hit...if you are really serious about stopping someone. Not that I advocate that sort of violence, of course, but I believe I can look after myself in such a situation if I have to.
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Old 30th July 2007, 03:55 AM   #22
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I've owned my share of guns: several handguns and assault rifles and a few shotguns. I freakin' hate the NRA. They are nothing but lobbyists for gun manufacturers, and I think gun owners advocacy should be left to the citizens and not the gun industry. I can also tell you a few stories of people in my area who have been hit by stray bullets from carelessly discharged firearms. Gun control is a gray area for me. I wouldn't have a problem with a certification program. I, myself, have taken courses and have obtained a license to carry a concealed weapon at one point. I tend to go for a shotgun as far as home defense, to many neighbors close by.
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Old 30th July 2007, 04:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by UserGoogol View Post
I hope the burglar got better. I mean sure, he's a dick, and his being shot was arguably justifiable, but there's no advantage of having him actually die.
You are joking right? If he was killed, then he will never try to hurt anyone again. But he is alive for now. If he lives long enough to go to prison, he may be a threat to the people whose job it is to watch over and care for him in prison. When he gets out, there is a chance he will still be a threat to those around him. What makes you think anyone low enough to beat a 93 year old man has any reason to shape up and live right?

His death would have been justifiable.

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Old 30th July 2007, 04:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by UserGoogol View Post
I hope the burglar got better. I mean sure, he's a dick, and his being shot was arguably justifiable, but there's no advantage of having him actually die.
He's going to live but I see no advantage in it.
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Old 30th July 2007, 04:43 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You are joking right? If he was killed, then he will never try to hurt anyone again. But he is alive for now. If he lives long enough to go to prison, he may be a threat to the people whose job it is to watch over and care for him in prison. When he gets out, there is a chance he will still be a threat to those around him. What makes you think anyone low enough to beat a 93 year old man has any reason to shape up and live right?

His death would have been justifiable.

Ranb
So when the police came to question him, it would have been the word of a 93-year-old who had been knocked insensible that would be judge and jury enough to blow the guy away and walk away scot-free?

I must try that next time I feel like killing a neighbour: Invite them over and blast them, then bang my head on the ground a few times so I bruise and bleed, then call the police and trot out the above story. Sweet!
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Old 30th July 2007, 04:50 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
So when the police came to question him, it would have been the word of a 93-year-old who had been knocked insensible that would be judge and jury enough to blow the guy away and walk away scot-free?

I must try that next time I feel like killing a neighbour: Invite them over and blast them, then bang my head on the ground a few times so I bruise and bleed, then call the police and trot out the above story. Sweet!
Do you really think that's what happened here?

Let's take the gun out of the story. What should Mr. Hill have done to stop the burglar?
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Old 30th July 2007, 04:51 AM   #27
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'They toook arrre gooons! If they dont like it they can geeet out'
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Old 30th July 2007, 04:59 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
I must try that next time I feel like killing a neighbour: Invite them over and blast them, then bang my head on the ground a few times so I bruise and bleed, then call the police and trot out the above story. Sweet!
Try that. Let us know how it works out.
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Old 30th July 2007, 05:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Painter View Post
Try that. Let us know how it works out.
We REALLY need a "sarcasm" smilie...
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Old 30th July 2007, 05:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by BPSCG View Post
Do you really think that's what happened here?
If the other guy was dead from being shot as you advocated, you can't rule it out. Can you. All that CSI crime-scene recreation from two hairs and a gum-wrapper stuff only happens on TV...

Originally Posted by BPSCG View Post
Let's take the gun out of the story. What should Mr. Hill have done to stop the burglar?
He was beaten unconscious before he was burgled, according to the story. So I guess all he could do was to have kept on lying there. It was only after he came round again that he started shooting. So by then he wasn't preventing the burglary, nor was he stopping it. He was simply apprehending the villain after the fact.

To be honest, I would probably do something similar, but I wouldn't shoot to kill. But then I wouldn't shoot at all if I could bail the guy up and call the police either.
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Old 30th July 2007, 05:45 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
He was beaten unconscious before he was burgled, according to the story. So I guess all he could do was to have kept on lying there. It was only after he came round again that he started shooting. So by then he wasn't preventing the burglary, nor was he stopping it. He was simply apprehending the villain after the fact.
I beg to differ. He wasn't preventing the break-in, since it had already happened. But he was certainly preventing the burglary. You noted the part in the story where it says the burglar didn't get away.

Quote:
To be honest, I would probably do something similar, but I wouldn't shoot to kill. But then I wouldn't shoot at all if I could bail the guy up and call the police either.
I think you are far more charitable and forgiving than I would be in similar circumstances. Someone breaks into my house and beats me unconscious, I am going to assume he would not hesitate to kill me. In which case, I would do my best to make him one of the deadest men who ever lived.

Last edited by BPSCG; 30th July 2007 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 30th July 2007, 06:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by UserGoogol View Post
I hope the burglar got better. I mean sure, he's a dick, and his being shot was arguably justifiable, but there's no advantage of having him actually die.
Sure there is. He wouldn't be able to try to kill any other 93 year olds.
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Old 30th July 2007, 07:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
[u].....It was only after he came round again that he started shooting. So by then he wasn't preventing the burglary, nor was he stopping it. He was simply apprehending the villain after the fact......
If you read the original link again, it says that the burglar charged the victim after seeing him awake with the gun. Most people I think would say the old man acted in self defense. There MIGHT be a few people here who would have trusted the burglar to not beat them again. I am not one of those people, are you? I hope not.


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Old 30th July 2007, 08:24 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by UserGoogol View Post
I hope the burglar got better. I mean sure, he's a dick, and his being shot was arguably justifiable, but there's no advantage of having him actually die.
But death is funny. That is why so many here would have prefered him dead.
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:27 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
You are joking right? If he was killed, then he will never try to hurt anyone again. But he is alive for now. If he lives long enough to go to prison, he may be a threat to the people whose job it is to watch over and care for him in prison. When he gets out, there is a chance he will still be a threat to those around him. What makes you think anyone low enough to beat a 93 year old man has any reason to shape up and live right?

His death would have been justifiable.

Ranb
So when ever you can get away with killing someone you should?

It would seem you are advocating the death penalty for assault and battery as well.
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But death is funny. That is why so many here would have prefered him dead.
It's only funny if he is a monster with an underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex and can't inhibit his impulses. In the near future perhaps that can be changed.

Probably have to be done at birth. I really can't see a printer printing out a new brain for a man. That would be just silly, even though printers will print out hearts and flying cars (at least ambulances and other emergency vehicles) will be a reality. Already have one, but it's too noisy. Uses the same software as the VTAL (Vertical Takeoff And Landing) jets use to keep it stable.
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
To be honest, I would probably do something similar, but I wouldn't shoot to kill. But then I wouldn't shoot at all if I could bail the guy up and call the police either.
So you've just woken after having been beaten unconscious, you're 93 years old, and you think you have it in you to tie down a young 20-something man who just beat the crap out of you?
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:31 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JJR View Post
It's only funny if he is a monster with an underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex and can't inhibit his impulses. In the near future perhaps that can be changed.
So you think assault and battery of an elderly indivual should merrit a death penalty as a general rule then?
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:36 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jsiv View Post
Or users of ATV's
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:39 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So you think assault and battery of an elderly indivual should merrit a death penalty as a general rule then?
Assault and battery? No, these guys with the bad brains kill at the drop of a hat. When you would slap someone, they just kill them. I was just saying that DEATH is funny when the person who dies is a monster.

If a guy just ate a baby and was then shot I would laugh. This won't change for me.

The reason I said, "Yep" earlier is because the burgler was invading the elderly man's home, and there's no telling what the burgler will do. Tresspassing, breaking and entering are stupid things to do and it's refreshing to see the bad guy get hurt instead of the innocent folks minding their own business.
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