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Old 27th August 2007, 12:54 AM   #1
pomeroo
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That Flow of Molten Metal

An interesting article available on debunking911.com:

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/200...r-of-wtc2.html
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Old 27th August 2007, 01:02 AM   #2
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That was very interesting reading. Never thought of that possibility..
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Old 27th August 2007, 01:33 AM   #3
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Interesting.
Such a ups setup wouldnt just provide molten streams of metal but large explosions too.
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Old 27th August 2007, 01:52 AM   #4
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Hi guys,
thanks for your kind words about my article and blog.
Ciao,
Enrico (Henry62)
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Old 27th August 2007, 02:02 AM   #5
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The articles are excellent, the one concerning oxygen cutting at GZ is fascinating in itself.
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Old 27th August 2007, 02:46 AM   #6
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Does this mean that the official theorists now no longer deny the existence of molten metal ?
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Old 27th August 2007, 02:52 AM   #7
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Dear Einsteen,
"molten metal" could be light alloys or lead with other components (plastic and glass, for instance).

I don't think you really believe in molten steel theory...

Ciao,
Henry62
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Old 27th August 2007, 02:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by einsteen View Post
Does this mean that the official theorists now no longer deny the existence of molten metal ?
The existence of molten metal in the WTC was never denied by NIST or anybody else.
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Old 27th August 2007, 02:54 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by einsteen View Post
Does this mean that the official theorists now no longer deny the existence of molten metal ?
I don't recall anyone denying that that stuff pouring from the window was molten metal.

I do recall people denying that it was molten steel and denying that it was proof of a thermite initiated demolition.
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Old 27th August 2007, 03:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by einsteen View Post
Does this mean that the official theorists now no longer deny the existence of molten metal ?
Straw man fallacy.

The argument has always been molten metal != molten steel.

!= "Does not equal".
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Old 27th August 2007, 03:39 AM   #11
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Thank you much, Henry. This is a magnificent smack-down of the twoofers.

einsteen, a word of advice. Read what we post and try to stay entirely in the room.

This, of course, explains only what was seen at that one corner of the building. Might be worth asking whether other firms had a similar back-up.

I have seen batteries cook off in a car fire and I assure you, it is a bit more than a fire cracker..

There were other streams of molten whatever reported from other locations in the rubble, but no one has confirmed that they were steel. A lot of the could have been glass. There was a lot of molten glass that day, and glass can incandece at remarkably low temperature. Easy to mistake it for molten metal if you are frightened half to death already.
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Old 27th August 2007, 03:54 AM   #12
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It could be everything. No I don't believe that stuff in the pictures/movies is molten steel btw.
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Old 27th August 2007, 03:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by einsteen View Post
It could be everything. No I don't believe that stuff in the pictures/movies is molten steel btw.
Well not quite everything. I doubt it was chocolate fudge.
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Old 27th August 2007, 04:05 AM   #14
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Unless it came from Willy Wonka's factory
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Old 27th August 2007, 05:26 AM   #15
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Fist thing I thought of was this would be a prime suspect for some of those "explosions" that people heard throughout the morning prior to collapse.
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Old 27th August 2007, 05:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by einsteen View Post
Does this mean that the official theorists now no longer deny the existence of molten metal ?
I think he is referring to the molten metal that was supposedly buried for weeks.
If you don't specifically say that there is molten metal pouring from the building in this particular video, the twoofers will claim you are verifying their claim. Remember, the slightest misunderstanding is confirmation in the world of twoof.
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Old 27th August 2007, 05:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Henry62 View Post
Hi guys,
thanks for your kind words about my article and blog.
Ciao,
Enrico (Henry62)
Very well done- nice job.
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Henry62 View Post
Hi guys,
thanks for your kind words about my article and blog.
Ciao,
Enrico (Henry62)
Very well written -

excellent job!!!
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:21 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
I think he is referring to the molten metal that was supposedly buried for weeks.
If you don't specifically say that there is molten metal pouring from the building in this particular video, the twoofers will claim you are verifying their claim. Remember, the slightest misunderstanding is confirmation in the world of twoof.

You are, of course, correct. But doesn't their eagerness to misrepresent suggest that they understand that they are lying?
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:26 AM   #20
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"You are, of course, correct. But doesn't their eagerness to misrepresent suggest that they understand that they are lying?"
Without a doubt. I, for the life of me, can't comprehend how they can't understand that their position is untenable. They are worse than the moon hoaxers in that real people (not that everyone associated with the Apollo program isn't real) died that day.

They are either lying or are having a serious break from reality.

Last edited by Wolrab; 27th August 2007 at 06:29 AM. Reason: forgot to respond to Pom's quote. oops
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:36 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
"You are, of course, correct. But doesn't their eagerness to misrepresent suggest that they understand that they are lying?"
Without a doubt. I, for the life of me, can't comprehend how they can't understand that their position is untenable. They are worse than the moon hoaxers in that real people (not that everyone associated with the Apollo program isn't real) died that day.

The big question is, do they understand that their position is untenable?

There are indications that the answer is yes. I posted links to Mark's paper on Willie Rodriguez on the Loose Change Forum. The reaction was wild indignation, one loon screaming that he knows slander when he sees it. Now, defining slander as quoting someone's own words is creative. But, the lesson I took from the furor was that they will avoid at all costs any exposure to criticisms of their cherished myths. Rationalists devour the statements and articles of twoofers, itching to tear them apart. The fantasy movement requires insulation from reality.
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:36 AM   #22
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Molten lead doesn't glow in ordinary case. What does it do as it gets hotter; Oxidize? go to vapor?

FWIW, I managed an IT operation with a similar, if smaller, UPS battery room in a Manhattan high-rise. Venting was priority #1. There was never an accumulation of H. To have a hydrogen explosion at WTC the venting would have failed earlier. I suppose that the initial impact could damage the venting and time could allow H to accumulate until something set off an explosion. IMO, that's a stretch as a significant energy input to the event.

OTOH, the amperage in the batteries could heat up lots of metal if it shorted out, but compared to the impact of a big jet, I'm not sure what increment it would contribute.
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Old 27th August 2007, 07:11 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Slayhamlet View Post
The existence of molten metal in the WTC was never denied by NIST or anybody else.
This is inaccurate. Here is John Gross denying the existence of molten steel.
John Gross

The last I time I checked, steel is a type of metal.
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Old 27th August 2007, 07:36 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
This is inaccurate. Here is John Gross denying the existence of molten steel.
John Gross

The last I time I checked, steel is a type of metal.
Last time I checked, denying the existence of molten steel does not equate to denying the existence of other types of molten metal....
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Old 27th August 2007, 08:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
Molten lead doesn't glow in ordinary case.
You should talk to a plumber.

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Old 27th August 2007, 08:17 AM   #26
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First time I've actually seen the picture. Since obviously the surrounding area didn't give way the theory of molten aluminum does make the most sense. Its good to see sometime common sense does apply here. However, the article only distracts from the larger picture. Where did the molten steel in the basements come from, and was the molten steel in the basement a result of the explosions heard before the planes hit the towers. If the explosives used, in the basement, were designed to melt the steel beams, from the ground up, the collapse of the building would make a lot more sense. I have a great deal of difficulty with a building collapsing with its support structure still in tact.

Is there any such explosive which would have materials to melt steel rapidly?
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Old 27th August 2007, 08:35 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer View Post
You should talk to a plumber.
Huh. I've actually done a few wiped lead joints with a pot of lead on a plumber's propane burner but it was 40 years ago and getting the lead hotter than necessary for the job was not a goal. I'd like to see a color/temp chart for lead similar to this one for aluminum.

http://www.westyorkssteel.com/images/htchar1.gif

To nit-pick, your picture may have been taken in the shade and the video we have of molten metal taken on 9/11 was taken in direct sunlight. The WTC video seems too bright compared to your picture.

Thanks
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Old 27th August 2007, 08:36 AM   #28
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Enrico - Do you mind linking and pasting of your research with proper credit?

I am interested in using this info in some discussions I have been having
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Last edited by Digest; 27th August 2007 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 27th August 2007, 08:38 AM   #29
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BigAl:

Don't forget that it's very unlikely we'd be looking at a pure metal, whether aluminum or lead. The addition of various other chemicals and elements into the mixture (such as glass and plastic) could well change the color/temp range.
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Old 27th August 2007, 09:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
This is inaccurate. Here is John Gross denying the existence of molten steel.
John Gross

The last I time I checked, steel is a type of metal.
Do you actually not see the error in your post?
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Old 27th August 2007, 09:56 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
Where did the molten steel in the basements come from, and was the molten steel in the basement a result of the explosions heard before the planes hit the towers. If the explosives used, in the basement, were designed to melt the steel beams, from the ground up, the collapse of the building would make a lot more sense. I have a great deal of difficulty with a building collapsing with its support structure still in tact.

Is there any such explosive which would have materials to melt steel rapidly?
First, do you have any evidence at all that there was molten steel in the basements, or anywhere else?

Next, explosives don't work by melting metals. They blast them. Thermite melts steel, but it is never used in building demolitions. And thermite works quickly, since it doesn't need to get oxygen from the air. There's no way that a thermite reaction would be still hot more than a few hours after the event. If it was hot for a long period of time, that has to be due to a sustained fire, not thermite.
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Old 27th August 2007, 09:57 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
First time I've actually seen the picture. Since obviously the surrounding area didn't give way the theory of molten aluminum does make the most sense. Its good to see sometime common sense does apply here. However, the article only distracts from the larger picture. Where did the molten steel in the basements come from, and was the molten steel in the basement a result of the explosions heard before the planes hit the towers. If the explosives used, in the basement, were designed to melt the steel beams, from the ground up, the collapse of the building would make a lot more sense. I have a great deal of difficulty with a building collapsing with its support structure still in tact.

Is there any such explosive which would have materials to melt steel rapidly?

Can I have a source that says that the molten metal was tested and proved to be steel?

Also do you know what agency found the molten metal?


Are you referring to Thermite in your statement? I am not trying to build a strawman so thats why I ask. If you are, do you know what is produced after thermite is ignited?


Quote:
I have a great deal of difficulty with a building collapsing with its support structure still in tact.
What happened to the core? Where did the collapse initiate? How would it be possible to bring a building down by blowing up the supports in the basement to initiate a collapse on the impact floors? Do you even know anything about collapses?
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Old 27th August 2007, 11:11 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
This is inaccurate. Here is John Gross denying the existence of molten steel.
John Gross

The last I time I checked, steel is a type of metal.
This is parody, right?

(Please say yes...)
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Old 27th August 2007, 11:40 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by einsteen View Post
Does this mean that the official theorists now no longer deny the existence of molten metal ?
OMG JHC Lord have mercy.

For the 10 MILLIONTH TIME, Noone is denying the presence of Molten METAL!!!!!!!!!!

TAM
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Old 27th August 2007, 11:43 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
This is inaccurate. Here is John Gross denying the existence of molten steel.
John Gross

The last I time I checked, steel is a type of metal.
Swing:

come on. You can do better. You know noone here is saying people did not see some type of metal in a molten state at GZ. The argument is was the metal STEEL or some other metal (aluminum, copper, etc...).

I know you know this, so why pussy foot around with it.

Henry62:
Welcome to the Forum.


TAM
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Old 27th August 2007, 11:47 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
I suppose that the initial impact could damage the venting and time could allow H to accumulate until something set off an explosion. IMO, that's a stretch as a significant energy input to the event.
The shutdown of ventillation wouldl of course raise the possibility of hydrogen explosions. But the area was kind of ripped open and ventillated directly to the atmosphere. That does not rule out accumulations in pockets.

But consider that a car battery in a fire can explode and send pieces as much as fifty feet in any direction. I have, myself, been struck by pieces of an exploding battery in a fire. Shorting out can cause them to explode.

And the batteries in the UPS were probably a little stronger than the battery in a lot of vehicles. And there were a lot of them.

On another matter, this may also be a good explanation of where the sulphur in some of Jones' sample came from. There was an awful lot of sulphuric acid in the buildings. Sulphuric acid contributes to euteric melting and the deposition of copper onto steel. There were probably more than the single bank of batteries in so many businesses and agencies dependent on uninterupted computer operations and communications.
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Old 27th August 2007, 12:18 PM   #37
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Hi Leftysergeant,
You could find batteries in emergency lights, in phone plants, in medical equipments and in computer rooms, of course.
There was a great number of batteries inside TT.

Bye
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Old 27th August 2007, 12:26 PM   #38
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Sometimes I think most truthers think every single office in both buildings had only a throw rug, 2 umbrellas, a 1994 copy of "Southern Living", and a water cooler.
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Old 27th August 2007, 12:38 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CNN
Built in 1970, the World Trade Center housed more than 430 companies from 28 countries. They were engaged in a wide variety of commercial activities, including banking and finance, insurance, transportation, import and export companies, customs brokerage, trade associations and representatives of foreign governments.

An estimated 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center, and another 140,000 visited the complex daily.
Here's a link to a list of tenants that had office space in the twin towers and four other buildings in the complex:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra.../tenants1.html
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Old 27th August 2007, 12:57 PM   #40
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hmm, There doesn't seem to be a listing for United Parcel Service in building 2.
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