Montel does a follow-up on a guest

I'll let the transcripts speak for themselves here:


Here's the original episode:

http://www.lexisnexis.com.central.e...rt=RELEVANCE&format=GNBFI&risb=21_T1984591071

WILLIAMS: Obviously.
Let me take a break. We'll be back right after this.
(Excerpts from upcoming segment)

LINDA (Her Husband Was Killed In Iraq 5 Weeks After Leaving Home): And I received a phone call from my father. He was crying. He said, `You need to come home, it's about Richard.' I found out that Richard's Humvee was ambushed, and he had died instantly. I just started to use Richard's frozen sperm for artificial insemination, and now I'm three months pregnant.

(End of excerpts)

(Announcements)
WILLIAMS: All right. Well, my next guest believes that her husband, who died in Iraq, is trying to send her a message. Take a look at this.
(End of excerpts)

LINDA: When I found out Richard was leaving to Iraq, I was nervous. I was scared. But most of all, in the back of my head, I knew I had to be a supporter, and most of all, proud of him. The day he left, in my heart, he was coming back. I don't believe in good-byes. I just hit him in the back and said, `Hurry up and come back, because we had so much planned for the future.

I was dreaming bad dreams. A week later passed by, and I didn't get the phone call, so I slept with my cell phone under the pillow, and I had a dream that somebody called me on my cell phone and told me, `Miss Linda, I'm sorry,' and I just broke down and cried.

The day after I had that dream, I went over to my best friend's house because I started to feel something anxious and weird. And I was telling her, and she kept on telling me, `Stay positive.' Not even 10 minutes went by, and I received a phone call from my father. He was crying, and he said, `You need to come home. It's about Richard.'

I found out that Richard's Humvee was ambushed, and he had died instantly. Losing Richard in the beginning was very hard, especially with the dreams I was having. He kept on telling me, `I'm not dead. I'm not dead.' So in the beginning I believed him, but to the day of his wake, and I actually got to see him, it sunk in my head that he was gone. But when I sal--when I saw him, he was so peaceful, and I knew he was resting in peace. I wanted to wake him up, but I couldn't.

Before Richard left to Iraq, we were having trouble getting pregnant, so we were seeing an infertility doctor. Since my doctor knew Richard was in the military and had a crazy schedule, he thought it would be best to have his sperm frozen.

One of the dreams I remember was around December. I was feeling down, and I had a dream where he told me to go into this folder. When I opened the folder, there were papers about Richard's frozen sperm. I feel like Richard was telling me to have his baby, even though he was dead. I decided to use Richard's frozen sperm for artificial insemination, and now I'm three months pregnant. And like everybody tells me, I have Richard inside.

Now that I'm pregnant, I'm trying to focus on my future. But these dreams, I feel like they're holding me back. I want to ask Sylvia why I'm having these dreams, and if Richard's trying to tell me something. And what can I do to let him rest in peace?

(End of excerpts)

WILLIAMS: Please welcome Linda to the show.
Those are the questions. What do you think, Sylvia, because those are the questions. What should she do to let Richard rest in peace?
Ms. BROWNE: But he is resting in peace. See, it's her interpretation of him not resting in peace. He is resting in peace.

WILLIAMS: What is he saying to you in the dreams that makes you feel that he's not?

LINDA: He tells me all the time that he's sorry, and that he's not dead. But every time he wants to tell me something, he's so crying that the words do not come out of his mouth.

Ms. BROWNE: I don't know how to explain this to you--and I've said this on the show, and the first time I said it, I freaked Montel out. He's not dead. We are.

LINDA: Is he always around me?

Ms. BROWNE: Yes. See, we're the dead, and they're the living, because our life is temporal. In other words, we're temporary. So when you tell a person that's on the other side they're dead, they get really--I've seen them get really ticked off. They say, `No, no, no, no.

LINDA: Yeah, he gets upset sometimes.

Ms. BROWNE: Yeah. So you see, you're dead, I'm dead. I know that sounds crazy, because we say, `No, I'm not.'

LINDA: And is he resting in peace?

Ms. BROWNE: Absolutely.

LINDA: And I have another question. Does he know he has a child?

Ms. BROWNE: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: By another person?

LINDA: By another person.

Ms. BROWNE: Honey, they know everything, absolutely.

WILLIAMS: Wait, he knows it now, but did he know it when he was alive?

LINDA: Yeah, when he was in Iraq.

Ms. BROWNE: No. When he was alive, no, he didn't know it.

LINDA: He didn't know?

Ms. BROWNE: No.

LINDA: And I just have a--am I going to have a healthy child? Do you know what it's going to be?

Ms. BROWNE: Absolutely.

LINDA: Do you know what it's going to be?

Ms. BROWNE: Boy.

LINDA: It's going to be a boy? Thank you.

WILLIAMS: Let me take a little break. We'll be back right after this.
(Excerpts from videotape)

And here's the follow-up:

http://www.lexisnexis.com.central.e...rt=RELEVANCE&format=GNBFI&risb=21_T1984591071

MONTEL WILLIAMS: Well, welcome. Today we're going to share some incredible stories of our most memorable guests and find out how they've been doing since they left the show.

Now, Linda appeared on the show because she was searching for answers from world-renowned psychic Sylvia Browne. Linda's husband died in Iraq, and she believed that he was trying to send her a message. Take a look at this.

(Excerpts from previous show)

LINDA (Her Husband was Killed in Iraq 5 Weeks After Leaving Home): When I found out Richard was leaving to Iraq, I was nervous, I was scared, but most of all, in the back of my head, I knew I had to be a supporter, and most of all, proud of him. The day he left, in my heart, he was coming back. I don't believe in goodbyes. I just hit him in the back and said, `Hurry up and come back,' because we had so much planned for the future.
I was dreaming bad dreams. A week later passed by, and I didn't get the phone call, so I slept with my cell phone under the pillow, and I had a dream that somebody called me on my cell phone and told me, `Miss Linda, I'm sorry,' and I just broke down and cried.
The day after I had that dream, I went over to my best friend's house because I started to feel something anxious and weird. And I was telling her, and she kept on telling me, `Stay positive.' Not even 10 minutes went by, and I received a phone call from my father. He was crying, he says, `You need to come home. It's about Richard.'
I found out that Richard's Humvee was ambushed, and he had died instantly. Losing Richard in the beginning was very hard, especially with the dreams I was having. He kept on telling me, `I'm not dead. I'm not dead.' So in the beginning I believed him, but to the day of his wake, and I actually got to see him, it sunk in my head that he was gone. But when I sal--when I saw him, he was so peaceful, and I knew he was resting in peace. I wanted to wake him up, but I couldn't.
Before Richard left to Iraq, we was having trouble getting pregnant, so we were seeing an infertility doctor. Since my doctor knew Richard was in the military and had a crazy schedule, he thought it would be best to have his sperm frozen.
One of the dreams I remember was around December. I was feeling down, and I had a dream where he told me to go into this folder. When I opened the folder, there were papers about Richard's frozen sperm. I feel like Richard was telling me to have his baby, even though he was dead. I decided to use Richard's frozen sperm for artificial insemination, and now I'm three months pregnant. And like everybody tells me, I have Richard inside.
Now that I'm pregnant, I'm trying to focus on my future. But these dreams, I feel like they're holding me back. I want to ask Sylvia why I'm having these dreams, and if Richard's trying to tell me something. And what can I do to let him rest in peace?

(End of excerpts)

WILLIAMS: Sylvia then answered Linda's questions. Take a look at this.
(Excerpts from previous show)

Ms. SYLVIA BROWNE: I don't know how to explain this to you--and I've said this on the show, and the first time I said it, I freaked Montel out. He's not dead. We are.
LINDA: Is he always around me?
Ms. BROWNE: Yes. See, we're the dead, and they're the living, because our life is temporal. In other words, we're temporary. So when you tell a person that's on the other side they're dead, they get really--I've seen them get really ticked off. They say, `No, no, no, no.'
LINDA: Yeah, he gets upset sometimes.
Ms. BROWNE: Yeah. So you see, you're dead, I'm dead. I know that sounds crazy, because we say, `No, I'm not.'
LINDA: And is he resting in peace?
Ms. BROWNE: Absolutely.

(End of excerpts)

WILLIAMS: Well, here's an update. Now, Linda recently sent us a video to let us know what happened after the show. Take a look at this.
(Excerpts from videotape)

LINDA: On October 13th, I was having a lot of back pains. The pain was coming constantly. I ended up going to the hospital, emergency hospital that night. And I never forget, when the doctor checked me, he told me, `You're going in labor.' I felt the world just came on top of me, and I just felt it was so unfair.

They tried to save the baby. She was five months premature, the baby. I got to see my daughter for seconds. She lived for seconds. And what hit me the most was that in one year, back-to-back, I had to say goodbye to the two most people that meant the world to me, which was my husband--October 14th was his funeral, which got buried--and also my daughter. October 14th, I also had to say goodbye to her.

Ever since I lost my daughter, my daughter's with her father now, I just--my dreams--it just--it turned to the opposite, which now he is--he is happy. And people told me, `You gave him the best gift that anybody could give him, and that's a daughter.' And now there's a Linda Rich up in heaven. That's how I live every day. I don't have one angel, but two angels. Now I dream with him, and it's just--he's not crying no more. I dream with him and a lot of kids, a lot of kids. He's always--he's always busy. Like, my family said, `He's busy up there changing diapers, baby sitting.'

I had--as a matter of fact, I had a girlfriend was there this weekend, and she's like, `Oh, my God, I dreamed of Richard with a baby. He--he took everybody to the zoo.' And I'm like, `That's my dreams, too.' Because I dream with him, that he's happy now. I have two embryos frozen. In April, I'm going back to try to have another baby again.

(End of excerpts)

WILLIAMS: We got to take a little break, but when we come back, we'll update you on an 11-year-old girl who was dragged 34 feet under a car. We'll be back, right after this.
(Excerpts from upcoming segment)

In memory of 2nd Lt. Richard Torres:

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/256827.html

http://iraq.pigstye.net/article.php/20031014080838555

http://blog.nj.com/njwardead/2007/05/army_2nd_lt_richard_torres_oct.html

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/torresrichard.html




Oh yes, the first episode aired October 20, 2004 and the second June 28, 2005.

WTF? How does this bode well for Sylvia at all? How more wrong could she be? A healthy baby boy will be born...and instead the poor woman has a premature daughter who dies!

Gah! Man, now I'm angry again.

Athon

Goddamnit.

The 2nd one is from an episode Montel did following up on his most memorable guests, only one of whom was a past SB episode guest.

If anyone cares to know, I came across it when I was trying to research something else. Unfortunatly for Sylvia Browne, I have a much better memory than Montel gives his viewers credit for because I immediatly remembered Mrs. Torres and instantly realized how wrong SB had been (I read through the transcript months ago researching a triple homicide SB had "worked on"- Mrs. Torres was the guest right before the sister of one of the victims and I remembered Mrs. Torres' story strongly).

Appalling. I'm speechless. At the show's editing and manipulation of the previous episode as much as at how wrong she had been. This is so shocking and angering I can't find words that would do it service.

And given the last thing we heard about a guest invited to do a follow-up, I have to wonder...

athon said:

WTF? How does this bode well for Sylvia at all? How more wrong could she be? A healthy baby boy will be born...and instead the poor woman has a premature daughter who dies!

Gah! Man, now I'm angry again.

Athon

Click to expand...

While I 100% agree with you....SB (and her followers) would point out this woman stated she has two more embryos frozen to use. While SB talks about this woman having a healty baby boy...she never says it would be THIS pregnancy.

This woman has suffered enough without having SBs claws in her as well; so sad.

So sad.

So, so sad.

Locknar said:

While I 100% agree with you....SB (and her followers) would point out this woman stated she has two more embryos frozen to use. While SB talks about this woman having a healty baby boy...she never says it would be THIS pregnancy.

This woman has suffered enough without having SBs claws in her as well; so sad.

Click to expand...

Well, she was pregnant when she asked the question. Sylvia could have said, "This child will be a girl," and declined to say anything about its health.

As much as I detest Sylvia Browne and Montel Williams, people like them are relatively few (outside of organized religion, that is). The problem is the millions of Lindas whose superstitions keep the creeps in business. I'll feel better the day Robert Lancaster wins a Daytime Emmy.

Gravy said:

The problem is the millions of Lindas whose superstitions keep the creeps in business.

Click to expand...

Yes. How absolutely heart breaking her story is, she doesn't sound.. emotionally stable with the dreams and the loss of a spouse and fetus, and then continuing on the IVF route because it doesn't matter if it goes wrong because her husband will have another angel. By the sound of it this child already has a role to fill even though it's 4 cells in a petri dish.

Gravy said:

Well, she was pregnant when she asked the question. Sylvia could have said, "This child will be a girl," and declined to say anything about its health.

As much as I detest Sylvia Browne and Montel Williams, people like them are relatively few (outside of organized religion, that is). The problem is the millions of Lindas whose superstitions keep the creeps in business. I'll feel better the day Robert Lancaster wins a Daytime Emmy.

Click to expand...

Ah....but SB is rarely that specific in any of her predictions. If she had said "This child will be a girl" that is accountable; if she says "you'll have a healthy baby boy"....vague enough for her to counter with "I never said THIS baby, just that she would have a healthy boy at some point".

SB knew exactly what she was doing/saying.

As to RSL...certianly deserved, and that would be an awards show I'd watch!!

Niobe said:

By the sound of it this child already has a role to fill even though it's 4 cells in a petri dish.

Click to expand...

Don't forget, it's now in a 30 year old "body"!

Sylvia Brown is a con-woman. Montel Williams is a con-man. Both are despicable. Yep, I knew that already.

Pah. As all Sylviates know: "We in this plane are the dead ones". So the baby was born into her father's realm -- that of life. And, in the other plane, we all take on the aspects of what we wished for in this one. The baby girl always wanted to be a boy and now she is.

Easy isn't it?

baron said:

Sylvia Browne is a con-woman. Montel Williams is a con-man. Both are despicable. Yep, I knew that already.

Click to expand...

My goal isn't to surprise anyone, except maybe Browne's fans. My goal is to call her and him out on their despicableness.

Given the way Misty Robbins was used when she came forward to set the record straight, I have to wonder if Linda didn't come forward to tell the truth about her pregnancy and was manipulated into talking about it from the dream angle (which is completely unverifiable and useless in a debunking) and not about how wrong SB had been.

The spin here is outrageous. As if the big news here is that her late husband does not appear troubled in her dreams of him anymore.

Edit: More links about Lt. Richard Torres:

http://beezone.homestead.com/richard_torres.html

http://www.drum.army.mil/sites/post..._archives/hnews.asp?id=2&issuedate=10-16-2003

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/dates/2003/oct/06/richard-torres/

http://legacy.com/WashingtonPost/Soldier/Story.aspx?personid=3146955

http://www.legacy.com/NorthJersey/DeathNotices.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=1473157

EeneyMinnieMoe said:

My goal isn't to surprise anyone, except maybe Browne's fans. My goal is to call her and him out on their despicableness.

Click to expand...

Good catch, Eeney. Obviously preaching to the converted here, but I think that probably makes people shy away from posting things like this, when there should be more of it!

Given the way Misty Robbins was used when she came forward to set the record straight, I have to wonder if Linda didn't come forward to tell the truth about her pregnancy and was manipulated into talking about it from the dream angle (which is completely unverifiable and useless in a debunking) and not about how wrong SB had been.

Click to expand...

It is hard to know why she would have made a reappearance if not for this reason isn't it - Sylvia gets possibly the most important detail painfully wrong in the most upsetting way, and then the poor lady goes back to Montel for another go?

But then if someone turned up purely to blow the whistle on that, I'd have thought the sentiment would have come through whilst they discuss anything, regardless of clever editing/skilful manipulation. Maybe Linda has doublethought her way out of the conundrum, since the perceived benefits of retaining belief in the meaningless but comforting Sylvian fluff might outweigh the problems of coming to terms with the idea that someone hasn't checked in on her loved and missed family.

This really is the sort of thing that makes me remember why I get uptight about these con artists in the first place.

Thanks for all this, Eenie! Just as Nucular says, it makes me remember all over again why these frauds get me so damned angry.
This is all so sad. I can't help but wonder if Rob will make an article out of it to show again how Sylvia just exploits the pain of others and AGAIN get everything wrong. And AGAIN how Montel keeps supporting all of it.

To reiterate a point here, the BLATENT editing as a means to deceive is horrifying, if not all out criminal.

It's one thing to bring back such a poor woman, but to distort the original segment to make it sound like a wonderful fluff piece is sinking about as low as you can get.

I am reminded of Hal Bidlack's letter to Montel: Where is your honor?

I found this today and I feel compelled to share it:

http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wexler.hunter.cuny.edu/us/lnacademic/results/docview/docview.do?risb=21_T2306272181&format=GNBFI&sort=BOOLEAN&startDocNo=1&resultsUrlKey=29_T2306272184&cisb=22_T2306272183&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=308096&docNo=19http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wex...&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=308096&docNo=19http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wex...&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=308096&docNo=19WAR'S

YOUNG WIDOWS: LIFE AFTER LOSS
The Star-Ledger (Newark, New Jersey), November 14, 2004 Sunday, NEWS; Pg. 1, 2969 words, MAURA McDERMOTT, STAR-LEDGER STAFF

...

Today, the nation rallies around its troops, and that gives great comfort to Linda Torres.

She visits her husband's street sign sometimes to lift her mood, occasionally leaving a New York Yankees cap or "I Love You" balloon, or laughing a bit as she weeps.

"It brings a smile to my face because I think about our good old high school days, our young days," she said.

She smiles, too, when she speaks about her husband.

The couple met at Passaic High School, and Torres pursued her avidly, proposing three times before she accepted.

They were married after he returned from deployment in Korea in 1999, in a hastily arranged ceremony with some 150 guests at a Veterans of Foreign Wars hall.

She tolerated his long absences when he was stationed in Kentucky, Georgia and upstate New York for the pleasure of their times together - the games of hide-and-seek, the easy flow of their conversations.

He once hinted that she should expect flowers on Valentine's Day, then flew up from a base in Georgia to surprise her as she waited for the delivery.

"We were best friends," she said. "Not a day would go by that he wouldn't say, 'I love you' and 'I'm thankful you're my wife.'"

Her husband was also passionate about protecting his adopted homeland.
A child of Peruvian immigrants like herself, Torres went willingly - enthusiastically - to Iraq.

"If you think you have it bad, think about Sept. 11," she recalls him telling her just before he shipped off to war. "Think about all the people who lost someone they loved. That's why I'm doing this."

Sitting in her mother's apartment in Lodi recently, Linda Torres found solace in those words.

"He loved this country and he was proud to serve this country," she said, although she admits to mixed feelings about the war. "He was so excited to go to Iraq."

In June, eight months after her husband was killed in an Iraqi ambush, Linda Torres became pregnant through artificial insemination with semen her husband had frozen at a fertility clinic before he was deployed. The couple had spent years trying for a child.

She lost the baby - a 16-ounce girl, now buried near her father - to a miscarriage earlier this month. There are two embryos left, and she intends to try again next year.

Until then, she likes to picture her husband and their daughter together in another world.

"Now I have two angels," she said.

...

http://www.lexisnexis.com.proxy.wex...&treeMax=true&treeWidth=0&csi=142709&docNo=31

Boy, 4, at ceremony for dad he never knew; Passaic street named for fallen soldier

The Record (Bergen County, NJ), July 27, 2004 Tuesday, LOCAL; Pg. L01, 509 words, By ERIK ORTIZ, SPECIAL TO THE RECORD, North Jersey Media Group


PASSAIC - D.J. McGee knew his father only through pictures - photos that show the 4-year-old has inherited his dad's dark almond eyes and chiseled chin.

In October, his father, 2nd Lt. Richard Torres, 25, became the first soldier from Passaic County to be killed in the line of duty in Iraq.

To make sure their son will never forget Torres, Diana McGee, a 27-year-old soldier in the Army, took a leave of absence from Fort Campbell, Ky., to bring D.J. to a street-naming ceremony Monday in front of Torres' former Beech Street home.

The City Council in May decided to give the street a dual name - Lt. Richard Torres Square - in honor of the city native.

"D.J. knows that his father died and that because of him, nobody can come to hurt him and the people he loves," McGee said before the ceremony. McGee had a relationship with Torres, who was married to his high school sweetheart, Linda, before he died.

Mayor Samuel Rivera and Intrepid Foundation President Bill White spoke during the dedication.

The Intrepid Foundation, a non-profit group, raises money for the families of soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. White said the group is donating $11,000 to Linda Torres.

Torres was killed Oct. 6 in Iskandariyah, a city west of Baghdad, when his Humvee was ambushed. He was posthumously awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart.

"A lot of people don't get this honor," said Army Spec. Eric Lanstrum, who was with Torres during the deadly attack and suffered major injuries. "A lot of people are forgotten."

By taking D.J. to Passaic, McGee, of Fort Myers, Fla., wanted to make the day memorable for her son.

Torres and McGee met while stationed at Fort Campbell in 1998. After learning she was pregnant, the couple realized a real relationship wasn't possible, although they vowed to keep in touch. But McGee said the timing never worked out, and eventually, their military lives diverged and they lost contact. She found out about his death in December, when Stewart Torres, Richard's older brother, visited Fort Campbell to honor him.

Before Iraq, life had been going well for Torres, a 1996 Passaic High School graduate. He married Linda and graduated from Austin Peay State University in Tennessee.

He toyed with the idea of becoming a military science professor, but put that on hold to go into combat. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 32nd Infantry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum, N.Y., and was deployed to Iraq on Labor Day 2003.

After the Monday morning ceremony, Torres' relatives traveled to the three public schools he attended in the city: Jefferson School 1, Lincoln Middle School, and Passaic High School.

At each school, Torres' family left a memento associated with him: a class photo at School 1, a yearbook page at the middle school, and a school ID picture and his windbreaker from his varsity soccer days at the high school.

In a lobby of Lincoln Middle School, Stewart Torres took D.J. by the hand to show him his father's picture. For a brief moment, the young boy and his father locked eyes.



Also: http://photos.cfsrf.org/displayimage.php?album=toprated&cat=0&pos=3