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Wretched1

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While on another forum, a silly truther forum, I found a voice of reason. They threw this out about a possible explanation for the "Molten Steel" mystery evidence.


"Did you know that steam and iron will burn at about 400 degrees? It's called pyrophoric oxidation. Gypsum in wallboard has a chemical composition of CaSO, about 17.6% sulfur, which would have become a source of sulfur for hydrogen-sulfide-driven pyrophoric oxidation of the steel.

Indeed, by pumping water for weeks into the rubble pile at Ground Zero, the NYFD was probably adding fuel to the fire as the steam reacted with the steel and released hydrogen to either combine with the sulfur in gypsum to burn violently with the steel or to burn with oxygen in the air."

I am not a truther, I do not wish to argue any CT beliefs about Molten Steel, I am just really interested in this particular scenario, to find out if it could really happen. Because if valid, it sure beats my "show me the evidence" defence to truther insanity. Has anyone encountered it, and where could I find more information in relation to demolished buildings and structures?
 
I suggest you do a seach on CrazyChainsaw's posts, it's the sort of thing he has been investigating, and blowing up.
 
Welcome to the forums, Wretched.

The "iron burns" idea is explained by Mark Ferran here.

Why make things complicated though? There is no evidence of molten steel at the WTC, nor has anyone explained why molten steel could not be present due to the fires in the piles, nor would the presence of molten steel advance any truther demolition theory.
 
The hydrogen reaction is just another source of heat in the pile in addition to the class A fuels such as paper, plastic and wood chips.

I hadn't heard of the possibility that it would react in that manner with gypsum, but that would, then generate sulphuric acid which then leads to the steel that was found thinned by a "eutectic melting." It would also provide a source of copper sulphate by recting with the odd bit of wiring or plumbing, which was then deposited on some of the eroded iron.
 
Thanks Gravy, I know what your saying about the Molten Mystery stuff. This is just for my own personal knowledge, the scenario interest me. It's why I was trying to avoid being brought into a CT arguement.

I hope that makes sense.

I am a not Engineer Degreed Army Engineer Officer, and like to look at these type of things.
 
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Welcome to the Forum Wretched1. If knowledge and science is a thing for you, do not hesitate to explore here further, and the rest of the JREF Forums, as there are many other areas catoring to many different interests.

TAM:)
 
Wretched1:

The reaction you are interested in is this:

3Fe + 4H2O = Fe3O4 + 4H2

It has an equilibrium constant of 7.4 at 700 K (427 deg C)

It has a delta(H) of about 120 kJ/mole, hence the oxidation of 1 tonne of steel would release 2 x 10^9 J of heat energy. This IS a lot of energy... for example the energy required to heat 1 tonne of steel from 25 deg C to its melting point at 1538 deg C is 0.68 x 10^9 J

However, a word of caution is appropriate here: the iron/steam reaction occurs at the surface of the iron (or low-alloy steel) and if the oxide is adherent it may stop the diffusion of H2O into the metal and essentially stop further reaction.

As for the other reactions, I wrote this a while ago:

Chemists have investigated the thermal decomposition of gypsum, CaSO4.2H2O or anhydrite, CaSO4, since the early 1900s because of its potential for making sulfuric acid by the liberation of SO2 or SO3 from a plentiful and inexpensive starting material. It was known at this time that the direct reaction:

CaSO4 + HEAT = CaO + SO3 + ½ O2

(followed by: SO3 + H2O = H2SO4), only proceeds at an acceptable rate at temperatures ~ 1400 °C. However, early research showed that the above reaction could be accelerated by additives such as clay and, more importantly, the reduction of CaSO4 to CaO and SO2 by reaction with solid carbon or gaseous carbon monoxide was found to be possible at temperatures well below 1000 °C. In these cases CaSO4 was decomposed by two novel reactions:

2CaSO4 + C = 2CaO + CO2 + 2SO2
and,

CaSO4 + CO = CaO + CO2 + SO2

Since the 1980s there been renewed interest in these reactions because of their role in the removal of SO2 from combustion gases by contact with lime (CaO) in so-called flue gas desufurisation processes. As a consequence, the chemistry of calcium sulfate reduction has been investigated over a wide range of conditions. Thus, for example, R. Kuusik and co-workers have reported details of the thermal decomposition of calcium sulfate in carbon monoxide/nitrogen mixtures and note that in 10 - 20 % CO/ N2, calcium sulfide, CaS, and carbon dioxide are formed at temperatures in the range 780 - 850 °C, while at CO concentrations below 10 %, calcium oxide, CaO, carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide are formed above 900 °C. Kuusik et al. also note that the presence of impurities such as SiO2 in the calcium sulfate lower the decomposition temperatures by up to 100 °C.

Published data on the kinetics of the reduction of calcium sulfate indicate that about 0.1 % per minute conversion to SO2 would occur for CaSO4 maintained at 900 °C in an atmosphere containing 1 % CO. If we assume that similar temperature and carbon monoxide impurity concentrations prevailed for 30 minutes in the combustion gases from the WTC fires, about 240 kg of SO2 would have been released within each WTC Tower by decomposition of gypsum wallboard. If we further assume that the decomposition gases accumulated in a volume of 10,000 m3 and the effective air exchange rate was four floor-volumes per hour, the maximum concentration of SO2 from the decomposition of gypsum was 12 grams / m3, equivalent to 0.42 vol % SO2.

Hope this helps.
 
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Thats why this forum is good, when you need help with chemistry issues, ask a chemist lol.
 
Static cling.

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Whew!

9/11 truth deflected.

Precarious emotionally-potent-oversimplification stabilized.

Crisis averted.


Wretched1 can cling to the 19-Hijacker Conspiracy Hypothesis for another day.


Welcome Wretched1!

Max


P.S. Try using "molten iron" instead of "molten steel".

(Others can tell you what happens if you don't ; )

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