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Old 8th September 2007, 08:11 PM   #81
TuftedPuffin
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Originally Posted by mijopaalmc View Post
So does this "joke" enrage the posters here because the marine reacted violently toward the professor or because the marine was angered by what the professor had said?

If the "joke" had been a true story where instead of assaulting the professor the marine had complained to the appropriate administrative officials who then disciplined the professor, would those who are all up in arms about the "joke" still insist on their righteous indignation?
I think the joke enrages people for about the same reason the blood libel should have: because it's a dehumanizing depiction of a group spread to and popular among the masses. If people make jokes about you being hurt and told you deserve it (again, if he had simply said "God works in mysterious ways" instead of giving a sermon about how the professor deserved to get punched, people wouldn't be nearly as offended), you tend to get more than a little angry.

If it had been a true story where the marine complained to the authorities I personally would probably have agreed with him. That professor in reality would be way out of line and a bit of a jackass. Though if the marine used the same stupid patriotism argument I think I would still be a little annoyed.
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Old 8th September 2007, 08:31 PM   #82
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Allow me to translate;
Originally Posted by articulett View Post
I speak out here, because people have willingly chosen to come here and be among the skeptics.
I rant and rail about the evils of religion in one of the few places that it doesn't actually matter, or do any good.

Quote:
I don't know what I'd accomplish except prejudice upon myself to tell my 70 year old step mother to stop sending me pithy little religious things. It's easier just to discard them.
I lie by omission to the people closest to me.

Quote:
Generally, I don't inflict my opinion on those who don't inflict their opinion on me. And I stay quiet when the consequences are not something I feel like dealing with from the faith filled but illogical.
I don't have the courage of my convictions, and I'll label all theists as evil lying scumbags (only on this forum though), except those that I personally know who aren't evil lying scumbags.

Quote:
Which I don't think you're particularly qualified to understand.
You don't understand me because you don't have my experiences, but I understand you even though i don't have your experiences.

Quote:
I think you have a major apologetic streak and a bullying streak while, like the Christian in the little story, feeling that you are being all moral and fighting for some nebulous ideal or other.
I'm better than you because I don't stand for any of this religious crap (except in real life where it actually matters). You may feel that you're moral, but I'm really the moral one.

Quote:
I think I'll just put you on ignore.
You're posts are embarrassing me and cutting too close to the bone. I want to live in my own little bubble of hypocrisy, so I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and singing, "la la la, I can't hear you".

Quote:
I'm sure you'll appear in somebody else's post if anyone ever things you have something of value to add other than the usual apologetics and flogging of those who dare to criticize religion or creationists or goal post movers.
I'll only pay attention to you if you agree with me.

I'm sure that this post will get me put on ignore, but frankly, I don't care.
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Last edited by wollery; 8th September 2007 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 8th September 2007, 08:48 PM   #83
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Yes, I guess the joke stopped being funny or they didn't get the "parable".

Good job, Tricky.
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:05 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
Allow me to translate;
I rant and rail about the evils of religion in one of the few places that it doesn't actually matter, or do any good.
You are free to translate, but you are incorrect. When people come to a skeptics forum they should be prepared to have their claims examined critically. I don't care if it's religious or woo claims-- claims... such as yours above and below are examined critically by anyone who wishes to do so. They can be sorted into facts and --everything else-- for example... I'd classify yours as opinions that most don't share, thankfully...

Quote:
I lie by omission to the people closest to me.
No, I just don't think everybody wants to hear my opinions and I don't want to be subject to everyone's prejudices. It's easier for me to hit ignore. I could do what tricky did, but it would just make my step mother self righteous like you and irate and she'd put out her own silly inanities on the subject like you.

Quote:
I don't have the courage of my convictions, and I'll label all theists as evil lying scumbags (only on this forum though), except those that I personally know who aren't evil lying scumbags.
I've never labeled any theist an evil lying scumbag-- I think religions are lies proffered as "higher truths"-- I distinguish believers from the beliefs they've been indoctrinated with. I don't believe in evil, and I have been called a liar by people I find dishonest far more than I have said the same of such people on this forum. Moreover, I've never called anyone a scumbag-- but you must feel very special for extrapolating that message from something I've never said. The worst I've called someone is an apologist. And the dictionary definition fits. If people over react, perhaps that's because they are afraid it might be true.

Quote:
You don't understand me because you don't have my experiences, but I understand you even though i don't have your experiences.
That was a complete non-sequitar. But some people have problems with analogies and basic logic. Fortunately, my favorite forum members seem to translate me more correctly...

Quote:
I'm better than you because I don't stand for any of this religious crap (except in real life where it actually matters). You may feel that you're moral, but I'm really the moral one.
I suspect everybody feels that those who believe like them are more moral-- that's why evidence counts. Do you have any? Or are all your opinions based on spin and confirmation bias and what you would like to believe about what I believe or would like to pretend I was saying? Aren't you the one these critiques apply to more, since you seem to be claiming you can "read my thoughts" and you are secretly more moral and righteous?

Quote:
You're posts are embarrassing me and cutting too close to the bone. I want to live in my own little bubble of hypocrisy, so I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and singing, "la la la, I can't hear you".
From this post, I would have to say the hypocrisy and fingers in the ears is something you have mastered. Yes, superstitious silliness and banalities passed off as platitudes do embarrass me. I never know whether my silence will be perceived as deference or agreement, but I know that if I say anything then the nutters like you will extrapolate all sorts of things that seem to indicate more where they are coming from than any thought I had or expressed. I don't expect reasonable conversations when people have "faith" in their "rightness" and confuse "opinions" with facts. My stepmother is as likely to understand my issue with her forwarded emails as you are.

Quote:
I'll only pay attention to you if you agree with me.
Irony. Again. Are you by chance a theist? Theists are amazingly good at irony and the double standard thing...

Quote:
I'm sure that this post will get me put on ignore, but frankly, I don't care.
Perhaps. I haven't read enough of you to see if you ever offer anything of value. I support Grayman's OP, and I find you sounding like plumjam.

Last edited by articulett; 8th September 2007 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:33 PM   #85
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Talking Joke: The Atheist and the Bear

An atheist was walking through the woods one day in Alaska, admiring all that evolution had created.

"What majestic trees! What a powerful river! What beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. Turning to look, he saw a huge bear beginning to charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could down the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was rapidly closing on him. Somehow, he ran even faster, so scared that tears came to his eyes. He looked again and the bear was even closer. His heart pounding in his chest, he tried to run faster yet. But alas, he tripped and fell to the ground. As he rolled over to pick himself up, the bear was right over him, reaching for him with its left paw and raising its right paw to strike him.

He cried, "Oh my god!"

Time stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest was silent.

Even the river stopped moving.

As a brilliant light shone upon the man, a thunderous voice came from all around.

"YOU DENY MY EXISTENCE FOR ALL THESE YEARS, TEACH OTHERS THAT I DON'T EXIST, AND EVEN CREDIT CREATION TO SOME COSMIC ACCIDENT. DO YOU EXPECT ME TO HELP YOU OUT OF THIS PREDICAMENT? AM I TO COUNT YOU AS A BELIEVER?"

Difficult as it was, the atheist looked directly into the light and said, "It would be hypocritical to ask to be a Christian after all these years, but perhaps you could make the bear a Christian?"

"VERY WELL," said God.

The light went out.

The river ran.

The sounds of the forest resumed.

And the bear dropped down on his knees, brought both paws together, bowed his head and spoke: "Lord, thank you for this food which I am about to receive."


(Commentary: I thought this joke was funny, if only for the implication that God uses the Times New Roman font when He speaks!)
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:33 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
When one of my ultra-Christian relatives sent this to me, I edited a few words, hit "reply to all" and sent it back.
***
A Muslim foreign exchange student was attending some college courses in the US. He had spent time in Iraq and Afghanistan . One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU..

One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, "Allah, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes."

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am Allah. I'm still waiting."

It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Muslim got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold. The Muslim went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked and stunned and sat there looking on in silence.

The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Muslim and asked, "What the hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?" The Muslim calmly replied, "Allah was too busy today protecting the world from from infidels like you, so, He sent me."

***
I didn't get a response.
I doubt you'll get one on this thread, either... except from those of us who agree with you.
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:50 PM   #87
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Joke: The Burglar and the Parrot.

A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around looking for valuables, and when he picked up a VCR to place in his sack, a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying,

"Jesus is watching you."

He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight out and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, promised himself a long vacation after his next big score, then clicked the light back on and began searching for more valuables.

Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard,

"Jesus is watching you."

Freaked out, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot...

"Did you say that?" he hissed at the parrot.

"Yep," the parrot confessed, then squawked, "I'm just trying to warn you."

The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who the heck are you?"

"Moses," replied the bird.

"Moses?" the burglar laughed. "What kind of people would name a parrot Moses?"

The bird promptly answered, "The same kind of people who would name a 140-pound Rottweiler 'Jesus.'"
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:50 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
An atheist was walking through the woods one day in Alaska, admiring all that evolution had created.

"What majestic trees! What a powerful river! What beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. Turning to look, he saw a huge bear beginning to charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could down the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was rapidly closing on him. Somehow, he ran even faster, so scared that tears came to his eyes. He looked again and the bear was even closer. His heart pounding in his chest, he tried to run faster yet. But alas, he tripped and fell to the ground. As he rolled over to pick himself up, the bear was right over him, reaching for him with its left paw and raising its right paw to strike him.

He cried, "Oh my god!"

Time stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest was silent.

Even the river stopped moving.

As a brilliant light shone upon the man, a thunderous voice came from all around.

"YOU DENY MY EXISTENCE FOR ALL THESE YEARS, TEACH OTHERS THAT I DON'T EXIST, AND EVEN CREDIT CREATION TO SOME COSMIC ACCIDENT. DO YOU EXPECT ME TO HELP YOU OUT OF THIS PREDICAMENT? AM I TO COUNT YOU AS A BELIEVER?"

Difficult as it was, the atheist looked directly into the light and said, "It would be hypocritical to ask to be a Christian after all these years, but perhaps you could make the bear a Christian?"

"VERY WELL," said God.

The light went out.

The river ran.

The sounds of the forest resumed.

And the bear dropped down on his knees, brought both paws together, bowed his head and spoke: "Lord, thank you for this food which I am about to receive."


(Commentary: I thought this joke was funny, if only for the implication that God uses the Times New Roman font when He speaks!)
I think it's funny too-- the imagery is funny-- and it's clearly a joke, not a parable... and it would be funny no matter what religion you stuck in-- and it doesn't involve people committing battery in the name of righteousness-- sure it makes god look a little dickish... but a god who is invisible and demands to be believed in is a little dickish anyhow... and death is supposed to be loads of fun for theists, so you'd think if the guy was a believer he'd be more likely to want the bear to eat him so he and god could begin the "happily ever after". To an atheist, death is just the end of existence.

And bears praying is just a funny thought. Praying is a little funny looking to me-- bears praying... funnier still.
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:52 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around looking for valuables, and when he picked up a VCR to place in his sack, a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying,

"Jesus is watching you."

He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight out and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, promised himself a long vacation after his next big score, then clicked the light back on and began searching for more valuables.

Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard,

"Jesus is watching you."

Freaked out, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot...

"Did you say that?" he hissed at the parrot.

"Yep," the parrot confessed, then squawked, "I'm just trying to warn you."

The burglar relaxed. "Warn me, huh? Who the heck are you?"

"Moses," replied the bird.

"Moses?" the burglar laughed. "What kind of people would name a parrot Moses?"

The bird promptly answered, "The same kind of people who would name a 140-pound Rottweiler 'Jesus.'"
I think that one is funny too... and I've heard it before. Again I like the imagery. I like the Rottweiler named Jesus. --But this is, again, clearly a joke... and clearly not someone beating up someone for the audacity to "not believe" in invisible immeasurable things.

Nobody would mistake either for a real event a parable or an urban legend. Neither are moral platitudes threatening with the underlying threat that "not believing" is bad and punch worthy (or worse) damnation worthy. Neither promotes bigotry or suggests that believing is something "moral" although the former implies it protects you from early death-- but what is early death to someone who really believes that it's the start of "happily ever after"?

Last edited by articulett; 8th September 2007 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 8th September 2007, 09:57 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by quixotecoyote View Post
There's a bunch of those out there. There's a whole sub-genre of 'evil atheist professor' glurge floating around in Christian circles. I think the idea is to vaccinate against education by higher institutions which don't have a Christian filter on the materials.
...such as Miss Hen of the infamous Jack Chick fame.

Re the OP, I realised it was an attempt at a joke but failed abjectly to laugh. Mainly because it was only one tiny step away from banana-peel three stooges comedy, which I find immensely painful and boring. Also because it was an attempt to use humour, a universal bonding agent, to attempt to belittle a target being painted in a strawman negative light. Just like Jack Chick does.

But that's my personal opinion.
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Old 8th September 2007, 10:04 PM   #91
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Joke: The Atheist and the Bear(but just barely, no pun intended)
Joke: The Burglar and the Parrot.
Not a Joke: Atheist Professor and the Marine

Thanks, Fnord, for helping to point out the difference.
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Old 8th September 2007, 10:22 PM   #92
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My friend told the "Bear and the atheist" joke a couple of weeks ago at the local gaming store. I didn't laugh. While this guy is one of my best friends, I REALLY wanted to punch his lights out since I'm the only atheist in my gaming group. As a result, I get tweaked for it constantly.
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Old 8th September 2007, 10:41 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Also because it was an attempt to use humour, a universal bonding agent, to attempt to belittle a target being painted in a strawman negative light. Just like Jack Chick does.
More or less, yes.

In Chick tracts the atheist professor or the public school teacher is usually portrayed as snide and unattractive (not to mention, vaguely Jewish) while the Christian protagonist is always some handsome, Caucasian, blond-haired picture of Aryan... I mean, American manhood.

In the e-mail, the professor is not only an atheist, but a member of the hated ACLU. And what could be more American for the praise-tha-lawrd-an-pass-tha-ammunition crowd for whom this story was written than having this evil atheist kicked around by one of our country's heroic, brainwashed, psychopathic, killing machines... I mean, U.S. Marines?

If either was supposed to be funny, I'm not laughing.
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Old 8th September 2007, 10:59 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
Allow me to translate;
I rant and rail about the evils of religion in one of the few places that it doesn't actually matter, or do any good.

I lie by omission to the people closest to me.

I don't have the courage of my convictions, and I'll label all theists as evil lying scumbags (only on this forum though), except those that I personally know who aren't evil lying scumbags.

You don't understand me because you don't have my experiences, but I understand you even though i don't have your experiences.

I'm better than you because I don't stand for any of this religious crap (except in real life where it actually matters). You may feel that you're moral, but I'm really the moral one.

You're posts are embarrassing me and cutting too close to the bone. I want to live in my own little bubble of hypocrisy, so I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and singing, "la la la, I can't hear you".

I'll only pay attention to you if you agree with me.

I'm sure that this post will get me put on ignore, but frankly, I don't care.
This seems unnecassarily harsh to me. I don't go out of my way to debate every person religious person I meet. What's the point in that?
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Old 8th September 2007, 11:22 PM   #95
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Quote:
Joke: The Atheist and the Bear(but just barely, no pun intended)
Whenever I tell that one to anyone, I do so as a joke making fun of the poor atheist. But it does have deeper meaning, I believe, namely on misconceptions of what Christianity is.

Keep in mind, though, that even though something is 'just a joke', doesn't mean it's not supposed to be political or carry some other kind of meaning. Satirical cartoons in newspapers are jokes, but are also meant to be a way to get across political messages.

But allow me to edit the nice little OP even further:
A Muslim foreign exchange student was attending some college courses in the US. He had spent time in Chechnya fighting Russian government forces. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed Christian and a member of the county's largest church community.

One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, "Allah, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes."

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, "Here I am Allah. I'm still waiting."

It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Muslim got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold. The Muslim went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked and stunned and sat there looking on in silence.

The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Muslim and asked, "What the hell is the matter with you? Why did you do that?" The Muslim calmly replied, "Allah was too busy today protecting the Holy Land from from infidels like you, so He sent me."
Let me guess now: When it's a Christian, it is in the eyes of the fundie a beautiful glurge about a courageous True Christian standing up for Christianity in the face of evil atheism.

When it's a Muslim, it's a glurge about how evil and intolerant those damned Muslims terrorists are.
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Old 8th September 2007, 11:23 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert View Post
My friend told the "Bear and the atheist" joke a couple of weeks ago at the local gaming store. I didn't laugh. While this guy is one of my best friends, I REALLY wanted to punch his lights out since I'm the only atheist in my gaming group. As a result, I get tweaked for it constantly.
Maybe you're just setting the bar too high-- you don't really expect theists to be able to be as funny as atheists do you? Compare Ricky Gervais to Jeff Foxworthy. See what I mean? George Carlin to Bill Cosby...

The lame never know they're the lame ones. Just be glad that you don't think like a 12 year old. Praying is funny-- bears that pray before preying funnier-- a god with a sense of humor on par with those who believe in him-- funnier still. Besides I heard a similar joke that goes like this:

A man is hiking in the mountains and is marveling at the wondrous beauty of nature. At one point he gets so absorbed in the beautiful view that he forgets what he is doing and walks off a cliff. As he is falling, he sees a branch sticking out from the wall of the cliff. He reaches out and manages to grab the branch.

As he hangs there he begins to pray, "Oh Lord, please help me. I'm losing my strength and I can't hold on much longer. Please, God, please save me."

Suddenly the heavens part and a voice comes booming down, "I am the Lord!"

"Oh, Lord!", cries the man. "Please save me!"

"I will save you," booms the voice. "All you have to do is prove your faith in me by letting go of the branch."

The man looks down at the two-hundred-foot drop below him, thinks for a moment, then says, "Is there anybody else up there?"


Both seem to be silly variations of the "no atheist in a foxhole" theme which is
yet another myth.
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Old 8th September 2007, 11:36 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
This seems unnecassarily harsh to me. I don't go out of my way to debate every person religious person I meet. What's the point in that?
Thanks for the support.

Yes... his attack came out of the blue to me too... and it was from a response to another forum member who attacked me unprovoked as well. He's mad about something, but I don't know what.

But it helps to know who your friends are. And it seems most of the people on this forum and thread--especially the ones I like the most have no trouble comprehending my points, nor I theirs. Sometimes you can't win as an atheist-- if you speak out, you're militant and arrogant-- if you remain silent you're hypocritical; if you show deference to nuttiness you feel like you are propping up the damaging notion that faith is good for something. But as the joke indicates-- not believing is punch worthy.

Grayman is a great guy-- his response was one of many options-- and it was good-- but not well received as evidenced by the responses they sent back... when you are a non believer you have no real options that a theist will respect-- you lose every which way. Such people demand respect for their opinions while showing a complete disrespect for those who believe differently (or refuse to defer to their woo--the true woo.. the "moral" woo). There just seems to be no way to ask them to keep their woo away from you without the hissy fits. It reminds me of this horrible thread-- where The Atheist, (a known apologist and rabble rouser) was verbally flogging Athon for being an atheist teaching in a Catholic school. Everything Athon did or said became wrong and bad and condemnation worthy.

What else is new? Theists and apologists seem to imagine themselves adding much more to the world than I ever see. Whatever extra morality or compassion or humility their beliefs give them are apparently not evident in their posts. As far as I can tell it's part of their "faith", because I see no evidence for presuming otherwise.

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Old 9th September 2007, 01:18 AM   #98
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I hate that atheist and the bear joke - it's just NOT funny when it's an atheist being used! Jokes work by building up an expectation and then twisting it at the end. But in this case, our expectation of an atheist is that he wouldn't call on god, nor expect anything particularly good from god. So the "twist" at the end just doesn't work.

It would be far funnier if it were a priest and a bear. Then the expectation is that the priest would call on god, as he does. When he asks for the bear to become christian it makes sense, because the priest would reasonably expect that this would make the bear some peaceful "love thy neighbour" type. And the twist actually works within that context.

From the first minute I heard this joke I was convinced that it started out with a priest and a bear, and some religious type just flipped the character into an atheist to reverse the target of the joke - not realising that in doing so it destroyed the humour.
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Old 9th September 2007, 01:46 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I hate that atheist and the bear joke - it's just NOT funny when it's an atheist being used! Jokes work by building up an expectation and then twisting it at the end. But in this case, our expectation of an atheist is that he wouldn't call on god, nor expect anything particularly good from god. So the "twist" at the end just doesn't work.

It would be far funnier if it were a priest and a bear. Then the expectation is that the priest would call on god, as he does. When he asks for the bear to become christian it makes sense, because the priest would reasonably expect that this would make the bear some peaceful "love thy neighbour" type. And the twist actually works within that context.

From the first minute I heard this joke I was convinced that it started out with a priest and a bear, and some religious type just flipped the character into an atheist to reverse the target of the joke - not realising that in doing so it destroyed the humour.

This thread is the first time I've heard the priest and the bear joke with an atheist stand-in. I heard it originally with cannibals instead of the bear, so he could actually hear then thank god for the meal, but I think that's too un-pc for todays jokes.
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Old 9th September 2007, 01:55 AM   #100
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the only way it could be funny is in that 'hurr hurr that uppity proffessor sure got his!!11" sort of way. pffft.
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Old 9th September 2007, 01:59 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by articulett View Post
Both seem to be silly variations of the "no atheist in a foxhole" theme which is
yet another myth.
I must have missed where in the second joke it specified an atheist. If it was an atheist, it ceases to be funny: If an atheist discovered 'a' god it would just be reasonable to assume that there might be more. And some might be offering better deals than others.

I am not sure if the joke is funny as is, but at least a believer who abandons his faith in the face of both validation of their faith and a rescue from danger is somewhat unexpected. Or maybe not.
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Old 9th September 2007, 07:16 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by l0rca View Post
As Fnord just pointed out, one can sense a serious form of some kind of hatred or another in all kinds of jokes. It helps to make jokes funny. I really can't explain this to you without either breaking down the nature of humor or waiting until you're less annoyed with the joke and take a more understanding perspective of its intentions.
So this one day at austwitch three Jews walk into the shower...

What, not funny?
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Old 9th September 2007, 07:23 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by mijopaalmc View Post
So does this "joke" enrage the posters here because the marine reacted violently toward the professor or because the marine was angered by what the professor had said?

If the "joke" had been a true story where instead of assaulting the professor the marine had complained to the appropriate administrative officials who then disciplined the professor, would those who are all up in arms about the "joke" still insist on their righteous indignation?
Why would he be reprimanded, he has academic freedom. I have had professors say things I disagree with, but part of academia is that they are allowed to say them.

What if this were a philosophy course or somthing similar? Then this could easily be a demonstration of somthing important for class.

I think I would be bothered in either case quite a bit.
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Old 9th September 2007, 08:21 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by ReligionStudent View Post
So this one day at austwitch three Jews walk into the shower...

What, not funny?
What's the difference between a Jew and a pizza?
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Old 9th September 2007, 08:32 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by quixotecoyote View Post
This thread is the first time I've heard the priest and the bear joke with an atheist stand-in. I heard it originally with cannibals instead of the bear, so he could actually hear then thank god for the meal, but I think that's too un-pc for todays jokes.
yes... the joke said that way and the joke by seismosaurus is much funnier to me. It pokes fun at the Christian wanting everyone to be Christian with the notion that Christianity makes people moral. (but as far as the evidence seems to go, it just makes them more likely to punch professors in silly parables for their invisible overlord and nutty notions.)

I think the kind of mind that has learned to see "deep" meaning in silly platitudes, is not really the best mind for subtleties of humor. Although they can be unintentionally ironic-- they aren't very good at working it into a joke. (All Jon Stewart has to do is repeat their words and raise his eyebrows and I'm giggling like a school girl.)

Here's Hitchens doing "coarse verse" on the Skeptic's Guide"... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swJbelp1IG0

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Old 9th September 2007, 09:47 AM   #106
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Articulett, I would like to apologise completely for my earlier post. At the time, your post made me angry and I reacted without thinking.

On rereading it, however, I can find nothing at all disagreeable with it, and can find no reason for my reaction, except possibly temporary insanity. I don't agree with everything that you have to say, but that's no reason for me to attack you the way I did.

For the record, I also agree completely with the OP.

I would also like to add that I hope that the majority of people who know me on this forum would agree that I am usually a calm, thoughtful, level-headed person, who tries to keep personal issues out of his arguments, and use just verifiable facts and logic.

I can offer no excuse for my post, since I have no idea myself why I made it, and can only hope that you find it in your heart to forgive me for being a total git.
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Old 9th September 2007, 09:55 AM   #107
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Saul was journeying through the desert one day, when suddenly he was knocked off his horse and stricken blind.

"Oh God, save me!"

God's voice boomed: "You persecute my followers for years, and now you expect me to help you?"

Saul replied, "You're right, I guess that would be hypocritical of me. But now that I actually have met you, and believe that the Christians are your followers, I'm now a Christian!"

God answered, "Tough! Welcome to Blindsville, population: you."



There, that makes much more sense.
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Old 9th September 2007, 09:56 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
Articulett, I would like to apologise completely for my earlier post. At the time, your post made me angry and I reacted without thinking.

On rereading it, however, I can find nothing at all disagreeable with it, and can find no reason for my reaction, except possibly temporary insanity. I don't agree with everything that you have to say, but that's no reason for me to attack you the way I did.

For the record, I also agree completely with the OP.

I would also like to add that I hope that the majority of people who know me on this forum would agree that I am usually a calm, thoughtful, level-headed person, who tries to keep personal issues out of his arguments, and use just verifiable facts and logic.

I can offer no excuse for my post, since I have no idea myself why I made it, and can only hope that you find it in your heart to forgive me for being a total git.
No problem. But when I am a total git I expect you to find it in your heart to forgive me. I know I can be offensive. I joke that I grow cyber balls online-- and I think it's because it real life, I don't speak up for fear of the consequences. But I can mud wrestle with the boys on line here, and for some reason, I just enjoy it a little too much. It's a heady kind of power that little women don't get to indulge in much, and I probably am expressing some things that I've kept bottled up from real life.
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:10 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
I would also like to add that I hope that the majority of people who know me on this forum would agree that I am usually a calm, thoughtful, level-headed person, who tries to keep personal issues out of his arguments, and use just verifiable facts and logic.
If this were not true I would not have responed in the manner that I did. I can attest to the fact that you are a calm, thoughtful and level headed person.
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:18 AM   #110
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I think the saddest part of these "atheist professor" stories is the extent to which the inventor goes to make stuff up. I'd like to know who are all these professors that go about challenging god to knock them off a desk or break chalk? I certainly haven't met any in my time at the university, which is more than 20 years now. Sure, I know a ton of atheist professors (being one myself, for that matter), and many who are members of the ACLU, but this idea that they (we?) spend time in class doing stupid things like trying to disprove god by idiotic stunts is just bizarre (even for the philosophy folks). It's this whole "atheist professors spend their lives trying to disprove god" thing that gets me.

Come on, folks, you can do better than that. Tell us where this happened and who did it. Otherwise, it is nothing more than some silly strawman. Sure, it sounds good to the Fox News folks who think secularists are trying to take over Christmas, but come on, put some meat behind it.

I think the person who described it as a parable hit it squarely on the head. It's supposed to be some big lesson about how god works, and so you throw in the stereotype of the atheist professor, projecting properties you want him to have.

It was never meant to be a joke, although there are those who probably think it is funny that the evil atheist professor gets his arse handed to him by the TRUE patriot (because, you know, those atheistic, ACLU joining professors are against the war and therefore are anti-american and don't support our troops; that marine showed him!). See all the important lessons to be learned?
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:28 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
I must have missed where in the second joke it specified an atheist. If it was an atheist, it ceases to be funny: If an atheist discovered 'a' god it would just be reasonable to assume that there might be more. And some might be offering better deals than others.

I am not sure if the joke is funny as is, but at least a believer who abandons his faith in the face of both validation of their faith and a rescue from danger is somewhat unexpected. Or maybe not.
I just think it's funny... the idea that people will express belief when it's convenient-- that there's this god who wants people to "believe" and that saying you believe is something good and something god wants you to do... and that if you don't keep currying favor with his odd demands, he'll smite you. I think that's why people thank Jesus and the like after winning a game or avoiding danger... they're afraid he'll take away the goodies if they don't pay lip service to "belief in belief".

I think it's a disturbing the way that "faith" is promoted as something good-- and the "faithful" as being righteous-- and this pretense that they hold to some "absolute morality" when it's clear they are all cherry picking the bits and pieces they find "good" as they go and using similar believers to shore up their beliefs.

I think the first joke was a sort of propaganda piece shoring up the "we're the good guys" notion of patriotism and godliness that became terribly entwined in America during the 50's.

There was a joke going around many years ago about Salman Rushdie writing a second book after The Satanic Verses a novel which pissed of Muslims. The book (according to the joke) was called, Buddha the Big Fat **** Now, I found this hilarious... as did many people, but I also knew that if the Joke had ended with the title Jesus the Schizophrenic Hippie, many of the people laughing at the joke (which involves Salman purposely going around trying to piss off religions), wouldn't find it as funny. But I would. I found the double standard interesting. But I know not to discuss it with those who have it because they will demonize me rather than explore the double standard.

For the record, I was raised Christian, so I understand the feeling of defense and how it's inculcated and why most wouldn't consider equal jokes equally funny if the dieties were switched and religions were switched. The jokes are designed to encourage an "us vs. them" thinking.

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Old 9th September 2007, 10:36 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by articulett View Post
No problem. But when I am a total git I expect you to find it in your heart to forgive me.
Of course.

Quote:
I know I can be offensive. I joke that I grow cyber balls online-- and I think it's because it real life, I don't speak up for fear of the consequences. But I can mud wrestle with the boys on line here, and for some reason, I just enjoy it a little too much. It's a heady kind of power that little women don't get to indulge in much, and I probably am expressing some things that I've kept bottled up from real life.
I can understand that.
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:37 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by grayman View Post
I received this in my email today:
I notice how the Professor not only is an atheist, but a member of the ACLU as well. Just in case you didn't hate him enough already.
The story doesn't mention this, but he was also a gay Arab vegetarian environmentalist.
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:38 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by articulett View Post
I think the first joke was a sort of propaganda piece shoring up the "we're the good guys" notion of patriotism and godliness that became terribly entwined in America during the 50's.


If you are talking about the marine and the atheist professor, then you are wrong. This story is just a slightly modified version of the "atheist professor tries to disprove God by dropping his chalk" story that was around a few years ago, which had nothing to do with patriotism. This version just takes that story and throws a Marine into it just to add patriotism that wasn't there before.

The stories themselves are all about the foolishness of the atheist professor, and, instead of having it be a smart-aleck christian girl who makes the professor look bad, it is now a Marine.
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:47 AM   #115
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What makes the joke fall flattest for me (besides the implied approval of the joke's audience)... is that the butt of the joke is a stupid atheist. It's not funny because it isn't recognizable as having any truth in it. It's not even true enough to make me giggle from discomfort.
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Old 9th September 2007, 10:58 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
If you are talking about the marine and the atheist professor, then you are wrong. This story is just a slightly modified version of the "atheist professor tries to disprove God by dropping his chalk" story that was around a few years ago, which had nothing to do with patriotism. This version just takes that story and throws a Marine into it just to add patriotism that wasn't there before.

The stories themselves are all about the foolishness of the atheist professor, and, instead of having it be a smart-aleck christian girl who makes the professor look bad, it is now a Marine.
Yes... I think I heard the chalk story-- without the marine. It's interesting to see how the meme evolves and who the bad guys and good guys are. Anecdote evolution.
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Old 9th September 2007, 12:25 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
What makes the joke fall flattest for me (besides the implied approval of the joke's audience)... is that the butt of the joke is a stupid atheist. It's not funny because it isn't recognizable as having any truth in it. It's not even true enough to make me giggle from discomfort.
As opposed to "A priest and a rabbi walk into a bar..."



Kind of my point, as well. It is a complete projection of what they think an atheist professor is like. Yet, as I said, where are these guys?
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Old 10th September 2007, 04:11 AM   #118
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Weeather your a Atheist or a Christian if you can't laugh at your selves in a joke , then we are all in trouble . The muslams have no sense of humor just make a joke about them and their god and see how enraged they get .
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Old 10th September 2007, 04:28 AM   #119
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It would help if the joke were actually funny.

But it isn't even mildly humorous.
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Old 10th September 2007, 05:46 AM   #120
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And it would help if was presented as a joke... not an anecdote, parable, lesson, or "friend of a friend" story like it usually is. If the person sending it to grayman knew he was an atheist, then it was just rude... if they didn't, then they presumed he shared their prejudice or didn't notice that it presented a bigoted stereotype or caricature on a non-believer. To me, it's on par with a racist joke.

Besides, I think religionists have spread enough of the "arrogant, shrill militant atheist" straw man around... the second someone finds out you are a non-believer you get saddled with such prejudice and people look for reasons to find fault in everything you say. It spreads a bigotry unlike good parody or satire which exposes bigotry people may not be aware of.
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