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Old 14th September 2007, 05:14 AM   #1
nlarosa
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"Man Confronts Giuliani at Ground Zero Ceremony"

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...zero-ceremony/

"Mr. Giuliani declined several requests by reporters for comment, saying it was not the right time. As he was walking away, a young man and a woman from the line of family members began yelling and pushing and trying to get near him. Later, they said that security officers had kept them away from the former mayor.

As Mr. Giuliani walked away from the site, the young man yelled, “How could you walk away like that?” and “Scum! Scum!” He said later he was not a victims’ relative. He was also holding a video camera.
The woman with that man, Sabrina Rivera, said she was there mourning her ex-boyfriend’s father, Lt. Robert F. Wallace of the Fire Department.
“Because of Giuliani we never had closure,” Ms. Rivera said. “We never had closure because as soon as 9/11 happened he had all the remains shipped to Staten Island, in the dump, in the landfill. And we never had closure because of him.”

After the outburst, Ms. Rivera and the man who yelled at Mr. Giuliani were asked to keep walking and to leave the area.

The presence of Mr. Giuliani, who is running for the Republican Party’s presidential nomination, had stirred debate from those not wanting to politicize these ceremonies, although the former mayor has attended 9/11 commemorations in Lower Manhattan all six years.

Update: Ms. Rivera was evidently the subject of a WNBC report in May after she and several other activists accosted Mr. Giuliani outside a fund-raiser in the Bronx. WNBC posted a video of the incident."

http://video.wnbc.com/player/?id=112179


http://www.wnbc.com/politics/1340457...l?dl=mainclick

OK I am so pissed we keep telling them (truthers) to leave our family out of this but Sabrina Rivera keeps shielding herself with my brother in laws name Lt. Robert F. Wallace of the Fire Department.

They have no respect for anyones family. Truthers sounds crazy in the news and they harrass Giuliani thinking they are some heros or something. They make themselves look stupid and crazy all by themselves.
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Old 14th September 2007, 05:26 AM   #2
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EDIT: foot in mouth
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Last edited by SpaceMonkeyZero; 14th September 2007 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 14th September 2007, 05:28 AM   #3
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nlarosa:

Being a family member of a victim, what is your sense of the percentage of family members who believe in the truthers claims? What percent do you think believe they were not told the truth, meaning how many think the govt allowed 9/11 to happen, or worse, made it happen?

Thanks

TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 05:29 AM   #4
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nlarosa, I believe, is a relative of the victim in question spacemonkey.

TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 05:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
nlarosa, I believe, is a relative of the victim in question spacemonkey.

TAM
I'll put my foot in my mouth then.
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Old 14th September 2007, 05:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
nlarosa:

Being a family member of a victim, what is your sense of the percentage of family members who believe in the truthers claims? What percent do you think believe they were not told the truth, meaning how many think the govt allowed 9/11 to happen, or worse, made it happen?

Thanks

TAM
Maybe .001% believe in the truthers claims. I really don't know. Some who say they are victims of family members that are for the truth movement, it could be a lie just so they can use that. But i really have no idea. I know in that video with Sabrina the one in May i hear the truthers calling out that "She is a victims family member, don't talk to her like that" when she is not. Also in that video they repeat my brother in laws name more than once to hide behind. I was never into this finding the truthers claims untill a few weeks ago when i first read Marks website and saw the videos on their claims. Also how i found out answers to what my nephew was trying to find answers to.
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Old 14th September 2007, 06:42 AM   #7
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Why? WHY did she have to have my first name? *puts head in hands, shuddering*

That being said, I find the attitude despicable and her pretentious claim of being a relative extremely rude. I hope someone sets this woman straight, and SOON.
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Old 14th September 2007, 06:43 AM   #8
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I have a friend who works for Giuliani (OMFG SMZ is neoNWOcon) and he states that there's always this "one lady" who shows up yelling and screaming at meetings with the families, and often gets told to STFU by other families.

Would this be that same lady?
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Old 14th September 2007, 08:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by SpaceMonkeyZero View Post
I have a friend who works for Giuliani (OMFG SMZ is neoNWOcon) and he states that there's always this "one lady" who shows up yelling and screaming at meetings with the families, and often gets told to STFU by other families.

Would this be that same lady?
I think so, it seems like they are following where ever Giuliani goes in NYC. Looking at the videos they are making.

After 9/11 Giuliani even went to Lt. Robert F Wallance funeral at St. Thomas Apostle Catholic church in Woodhaven Queens where most my family grew up. He was very respectful and it made me at least feel good that someone like him cared about my brother in law to go to the funeral even though Giuliani never met him.

Now that Sabrina and the truth movement to be using his name as a shield when harassing Giuliani upsets me.

If Luke, Sabrina and the truth movement had a point to make they should make it without using his name. They should ask the questions they want to ask hear the answers and thats it.
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Old 14th September 2007, 08:24 AM   #10
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nlarosa, can you do me a favor please?

Call her Rivera instead; every time I see her name it makes me wince from shame because I share the same name as this moronically idiotic woman. That and I don't want to confuse the twoofers about who I am; they're easily confused, as I'm sure you've seen. Thanks!
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Old 14th September 2007, 08:32 AM   #11
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The trouble with the "questions" the truth movement asks, is not the questions themselves, it is that the answers they get are not the ones they want, so they keep digging for that nugget they think is buried underneath.

TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 08:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by SpaceMonkeyZero View Post
I have a friend who works for Giuliani (OMFG SMZ is neoNWOcon) and he states that there's always this "one lady" who shows up yelling and screaming at meetings with the families, and often gets told to STFU by other families.

Would this be that same lady?

Dunno ... But what exactly is her problem with Giuliani, do you
(or your NWO affiliates ) know that?
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Old 14th September 2007, 08:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
nlarosa, can you do me a favor please?

Call her Rivera instead; every time I see her name it makes me wince from shame because I share the same name as this moronically idiotic woman. That and I don't want to confuse the twoofers about who I am; they're easily confused, as I'm sure you've seen. Thanks!

Sabrina! Are you leading a double life, harassing Guiliani and getting videos made?? For shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame!...

Not that I'd ever make a false allegation just to score a joke...
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
nlarosa, can you do me a favor please?

Call her Rivera instead; every time I see her name it makes me wince from shame because I share the same name as this moronically idiotic woman. That and I don't want to confuse the twoofers about who I am; they're easily confused, as I'm sure you've seen. Thanks!
i understand, I will
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:09 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
The trouble with the "questions" the truth movement asks, is not the questions themselves, it is that the answers they get are not the ones they want, so they keep digging for that nugget they think is buried underneath.

TAM
My opinion is that they've confused rights with license, and believe that the right to free speech is a license to harass. Combine that with their sense of wanting to identify with the victims (whether the victims want their association or not) and their general misconceptions of events, and you have some truly deluded individuals who are also annoying in their behavior.

But, maybe that's just my perception...
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Dunno ... But what exactly is her problem with Giuliani, do you
(or your NWO affiliates ) know that?
They are saying Giuliani knew the towers were going to come down, and he rushed the cleaning effort after 9/11 happened. She says he threw the remains of loved ones in the dump because evidence that 9/11 was an inside job down at GZ pointed to the government. They also claim Giuliani was "in on it" because of that....

I have no clue where they come up with this garbage
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:14 AM   #17
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I wonder if it is not a generational thing. Though there are exceptions to this (some found here), I find that this generation of teens and twenty somethings has this sense of self-entitlement, arrogance almost, that they can do what they like, noone can do squat about it.

They harrass officials, and people that when I was a teen we wouldn't have dreamed of bothering. They get in school and treat the teachers like crap, knowing the teacher can't do squat...once again, in my day, even if you hated school, you showed a degree of respect for the teachers.

Thoughts??

TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:15 AM   #18
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Thank you kindly nlarosa!
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:32 AM   #19
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Although I find Giuliani one of the most dispicable figures in current politics, I am disgusted with the tactics of twoofers at public ceremonies. Giuliani had to be there. He has a responsibility to face the mess he helped create in his handling of the cleanup. He has some responsibility for the failure to notify workers of the environmental hazards they faced. And it was his idea to place the OEM where he did.

That said, nobody wants to deal with a mentally disturbed person during a contemplative moment.

Both Rivera and Rudy should just keep their mouths shut at events that were not staged for their particular benefit. What Rivera does encourages the Dylans and AJs of the world.

What Rudy does is a subject for another forum.

A pox on both their houses.
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:40 AM   #20
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Was Lt. Wallace Dan Wallace's father?
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Dunno ... But what exactly is her problem with Giuliani, do you
(or your NWO affiliates ) know that?
Mainly due to the complaints that
A. Firefighters were stopped from going to do cleanup (and punched a cop) but they were then let in and did perform cleanup.
B. Some complain they weren't given proper gear to protect them from breathing fumes, toxins, etc.
C. Some families who never received remains still wish they could have closure.
D. Then there are those who fit into the plain bat[rule10] crazy. This Sabrina Rivera would fit into that. They feed off of A. (Rudy must be in on it and was using the police to stop the firefighters from seeing the NWO cleanup crew) and B.&C. by claiming they're JAQ for the first responders and families when in reality they're in it for their own gain or to feed their own mental illness.

The overwhelming majority of A, B, and C do not believe that there is any sort of conspiracy.

For the record, I feel the government should be doing all they can for the first responders' health. Will some fall through the cracks? Sure, no system is perfect.
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Old 14th September 2007, 10:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I wonder if it is not a generational thing. Though there are exceptions to this (some found here), I find that this generation of teens and twenty somethings has this sense of self-entitlement, arrogance almost, that they can do what they like, noone can do squat about it.
TAM
You have something there. It's the Gen-Y's. My wife and I are both at the tail end of Gen-X and she now manages a bunch of these kids right out of college, and the way you described it matched her description exactly. A sense of entitlement, they want to be paid for a job, while someone else figuratively holds their hand and does their work for them. When they can't get something done, they're quick to make up excuses that of course are someone else's fault.

When she started managing them this past summer, my wife had her first "Damn kids these days" moment and that made her feel old (She's 30).
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Old 14th September 2007, 10:31 AM   #23
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lol...I am 36. As a GP I see them all the time. They take little to no responsibility for the health care either. There are some exceptions, my brother in law being one of them.

TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 12:00 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
Was Lt. Wallace Dan Wallace's father?

yes
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Old 14th September 2007, 12:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by nlarosa View Post
They are saying Giuliani knew the towers were going to come down, and he rushed the cleaning effort after 9/11 happened. She says he threw the remains of loved ones in the dump because evidence that 9/11 was an inside job down at GZ pointed to the government. They also claim Giuliani was "in on it" because of that....

I have no clue where they come up with this garbage

I guess you may ask Alex Jones where they get this kind of
information from ... But these wild accusations aren't what
this womens complains are about - are they?

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkeyZero View Post
Mainly due to the complaints that
A. Firefighters were stopped from going to do cleanup (and punched a cop) but they were then let in and did perform cleanup.
B. Some complain they weren't given proper gear to protect them from breathing fumes, toxins, etc.
C. Some families who never received remains still wish they could have closure.
D. Then there are those who fit into the plain bat[rule10] crazy. This Sabrina Rivera would fit into that. They feed off of A. (Rudy must be in on it and was using the police to stop the firefighters from seeing the NWO cleanup crew) and B.&C. by claiming they're JAQ for the first responders and families when in reality they're in it for their own gain or to feed their own mental illness.

The overwhelming majority of A, B, and C do not believe that there is any sort of conspiracy.

For the record, I feel the government should be doing all they can for the first responders' health. Will some fall through the cracks? Sure, no system is perfect.

Well, as far I understand it, she doesn't have any family-members
who died on 9/11 - so what's her problem anyway? But I agree
concerning the voluntary helpers - they all deserve help as well
after they helped their government and fellow Americans after
9/11 without asking questions...
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Old 14th September 2007, 12:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by nlarosa View Post
yes
So they're exploiting a dead boy. Nice.
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Old 14th September 2007, 12:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
they all deserve help as well
after they helped their government and fellow Americans after
9/11 without asking questions...
There was one controversy over a NYPD officer who died recently due to lung cancer who claims he was a first responder and refused help. He, and his family claimed he was there on 9/11 helping the first responders, but it turned out he was guarding an impound lot or something to that effect in Queens (I'm going by memory) and didn't actually show up to GZ to help clean up and recovery until December.

I really can't remember his name or the exact details. I'll try to find them, and I'm sure I'll be wrong on a few details though. Has this been discussed here before?

EDIT: Cesar Borja http://www.nypost.com/seven/02212007...h_j__kelly.htm

I'm not sure of the exact story yet. But it seems he wasn't a first responder, but his family insisted that he was to get his health paid for by the state. I'll keep looking.

yet another edit: Cesar Borja briefly mentioned http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8&postcount=99 but this was before he was "found out" to not be a first responder.
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Last edited by SpaceMonkeyZero; 14th September 2007 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
So they're exploiting a dead boy. Nice.

Dan Wallace was a twoofer though.
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Civilized Worm View Post
Dan Wallace was a twoofer though.
yah he was but if he knew what i know today i am sure he wouldn't be. He fell in with the wrong people, like Luke who feed them their "truth" everyday since they met.

In the videos of Danny that i seen, to me they used him because his father died 9/11 and was a fireman. As soon as someone would try to say something to Dan or tried to tell him another side right away the truth people behind him would bring up his father or would just tell them their lies they made up. This happens in all of his videos that i have seen.

It is happening even now with Rivera his ex girl friend.

Now I know Danny wasn't the easiest person to try to talk to when he had made up his mind about something, but i think he would have changed his mind about this whole truth movement if someone in our family would have looked into it more.

To me my nephew was a victim of the Truth Movement and their lies.

Last edited by nlarosa; 14th September 2007 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 14th September 2007, 02:00 PM   #30
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Making a scene at a memorial is tactless. For Rudy to even open his mouth for anything other than to apologize for his ineptitude, is, I think, also tactless. He's a parasite on our collective grief if he uses such events to promote himself. He was all form and no substance on 9/11, and, from all accounts, for most of his career.

Now, if he showed up at a fire fighter's gathering and was met at the entrance by a circle of angry faces, that would be quite another matter.

I understand the union was really upset about his showing up at the memorial for the fire fighters killed in the furniture warehouse fire a couple months ago.

I'd like to see both Rudy and Rivera go away. I just have a little more concern that Rivera get psychiatric help. She needs it.

Rudy is not a victim. The people who have to listen to the exchanges between him and the whackjobs are.
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Old 14th September 2007, 04:35 PM   #31
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I think Dan, like so many others, were caught at a vulnerable time. He was a young man who had lost his father. The truth movement offered him something tangible he could fight against. It is hard to fight against a group of islamic extremists on the other side of the word. Fighting against big brother in the good old USA gave him a group he could not only be angry with, but a group he could actually direct his anger at...directly...He could protest, etc...

As well, like many young people at the best of times, he probably felt isolated and confused...the movement gave him a group to belong to with a common goal. A group filled with others like him.

I blame the truth movement for getting Dan involved, not Dan for becoming a part of it.

A shame.

TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 04:39 PM   #32
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thank you TAM
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Old 14th September 2007, 04:50 PM   #33
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You are welcome sir...

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Old 14th September 2007, 05:55 PM   #34
Civilized Worm
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I think Dan, like so many others, were caught at a vulnerable time. He was a young man who had lost his father.

As I always say when twoofer try to boast about the family member in there ranks: grief makes people irrational, what's your excuse?
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