IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags chi , healers , John Chang , Kosta Danaos

Reply
Old 16th September 2007, 09:48 PM   #1
vladimir
New Blood
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13
John Chang's Chi videos on Youtube

Looking for some debunking of this guy: John Chang, a Chi healer in Indonesia. Apparently one of his disciples, Kosta Danaos, published a book, called "The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal". What I found interesting was a video of this individual lighting up a LED. (watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt on Youtube). I doubt it's "paranormal" to have higher amounts of bioelectricity, but I'm looking for more informed opinions.

Thanks,
Vladimir
vladimir is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2007, 07:28 AM   #2
KingMerv00
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,459
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Don't mind me, just helping you out.

Edit: You joined in July 2004 and this is your first post?

Edit again: You forgot the "8" at the end of the youtube ID.

Last edited by KingMerv00; 17th September 2007 at 07:33 AM.
KingMerv00 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2007, 04:09 PM   #3
vladimir
New Blood
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13
Thanks, KingMerv. The LED lighting sequence is visible after 1:50 before the movie ends.

I joined because I wanted to search the forums, and for the life of me, I could not see a 'search' link. I think there are massive amounts of useful information in this forum, and it's a pity that performance considerations make the search available to members only. Thankfully, the forum is indexed by Google and one could use 'site:forums.randi.org' searches. And yes, 3 years of lurking... I'm slow to learn the netiquette ;-)
vladimir is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2007, 09:46 PM   #4
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
Originally Posted by vladimir View Post
I doubt it's "paranormal" to have higher amounts of bioelectricity, but I'm looking for more informed opinions.
It's a magic trick.
Remove one of the LEDs and hold it in your fingertips. The bulb magically lights!

The forum search link is in the black border at the top of the page.
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2007, 04:27 PM   #5
vladimir
New Blood
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13
Question Not very convincing

Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
It's a magic trick.
Remove one of the LEDs and hold it in your fingertips. The bulb magically lights!
The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED.

Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
The forum search link is in the black border at the top of the page.
I really can't see this link when I'm not logged in. Could you perhaps post a screenshot? Looking at the source of the page reveals a link to a source.php, but that searches users, not discussions.
vladimir is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2007, 04:38 PM   #6
Denial
Scholar
 
Denial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Vladimir, you're absolutely correct with regards to the search link not being visible to people who are not logged in.
Denial is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2007, 05:00 PM   #7
The Pig
Thinker
 
The Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by vladimir View Post
The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED.
Randi disapproves of the disclosing of magic secrets on the forum.

The link shows that you can buy a magic trick to achieve the effect - it doesn't explain how the effect is achieved. Maybe when Dynamo Jack achieves exactly the same effect, he uses Chi.
The Pig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2007, 10:57 AM   #8
Spenser
New Blood
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2
For an interesting perspective on this, I recommend reading the book "Encounters with Qi" by Dr. David M. Eisenberg M.D.

Basically, Dr. Eisenberg is a Harvard trained Medical Doctor who spent several years in China in a cross-study exchange with Chinese Hospital where he observed Chinese Medicine (acupuncture, qigong, herbs, massage) first hand. This book is the foundation for the Bill Moyers special "Healing & The Mind: Part 1 The Mystery of Chi"

(note chi & qi are the same word just different dialects..pronounced "chee")

In both the book and the special, Eisenberg recalls a meeting with Dr. Herbert Benson in China where the same test took place with a qigong master and a regular lightbulb was used. The results are mixed, but interesting read none the less.


in the end, this highly trained Western doctor says that he doesn't believe in qi, but acknowledges that something positive is happening in patients who use Chinese Medicine. It is the discovery of this something that should be the next step and not the promotion of "could be".
Spenser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2007, 02:03 PM   #9
RSLancastr
 
RSLancastr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 17,135
Originally Posted by Spenser View Post
in the end, this highly trained Western doctor says that he doesn't believe in qi, but acknowledges that something positive is happening in patients who use Chinese Medicine. It is the discovery of this something that should be the next step and not the promotion of "could be".
Is there any reason to believe that the "something positive" is anything but the placebo effect?
__________________
Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com.

Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com.

Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?
RSLancastr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd September 2007, 09:26 AM   #10
Vim Razz
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 361
Originally Posted by vladimir View Post
Looking for some debunking of this guy: John Chang, a Chi healer in Indonesia.
Randi mentioned him back in april. (here)
Vim Razz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd September 2007, 09:57 AM   #11
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 32,473
Originally Posted by vladimir View Post
The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED.
Do you think people who do the magic trick will show their spectators that they are using batteries?
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2007, 04:54 PM   #12
c4ts
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
All that magic healing chi in his eye, and he's still wearing an eyepatch when he talks to the camera.
c4ts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2007, 06:31 AM   #13
Spenser
New Blood
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2
Yes there is. Under several controlled conditions, the placebo effect was ruled out as a possibility.
Spenser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2007, 06:34 AM   #14
Garrette
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,768
Originally Posted by Spenser View Post
Yes there is. Under several controlled conditions, the placebo effect was ruled out as a possibility.
I have doubts, but am willing to be shown wrong.

Details and link, please?
__________________
My kids still love me.
Garrette is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:45 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.