John Chang's Chi videos on Youtube

vladimir · 16th September 2007, 09:48 PM

Looking for some debunking of this guy: John Chang, a Chi healer in Indonesia. Apparently one of his disciples, Kosta Danaos, published a book, called "The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal". What I found interesting was a video of this individual lighting up a LED. (watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt on Youtube). I doubt it's "paranormal" to have higher amounts of bioelectricity, but I'm looking for more informed opinions.

Thanks,
Vladimir

KingMerv00 · 17th September 2007, 07:28 AM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Don't mind me, just helping you out.

Edit: You joined in July 2004 and this is your first post?

Edit again: You forgot the "8" at the end of the youtube ID.

vladimir · 17th September 2007, 04:09 PM

Thanks, KingMerv. The LED lighting sequence is visible after 1:50 before the movie ends.

I joined because I wanted to search the forums, and for the life of me, I could not see a 'search' link. I think there are massive amounts of useful information in this forum, and it's a pity that performance considerations make the search available to members only. Thankfully, the forum is indexed by Google and one could use 'site:forums.randi.org' searches. And yes, 3 years of lurking... I'm slow to learn the netiquette ;-)

Gravy · 17th September 2007, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by vladimir

I doubt it's "paranormal" to have higher amounts of bioelectricity, but I'm looking for more informed opinions.

It's a magic trick.
Remove one of the LEDs and hold it in your fingertips. The bulb magically lights!

The forum search link is in the black border at the top of the page.

vladimir · 18th September 2007, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

It's a magic trick.
Remove one of the LEDs and hold it in your fingertips. The bulb magically lights!

The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED.

Originally Posted by Gravy

The forum search link is in the black border at the top of the page.

I really can't see this link when I'm not logged in. Could you perhaps post a screenshot? Looking at the source of the page reveals a link to a source.php, but that searches users, not discussions.

Denial · 18th September 2007, 04:38 PM

Vladimir, you're absolutely correct with regards to the search link not being visible to people who are not logged in.

The Pig · 18th September 2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by vladimir

The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED.

Randi disapproves of the disclosing of magic secrets on the forum.

The link shows that you can buy a magic trick to achieve the effect - it doesn't explain how the effect is achieved. Maybe when Dynamo Jack achieves exactly the same effect, he uses Chi.

Spenser · 21st September 2007, 10:57 AM

For an interesting perspective on this, I recommend reading the book "Encounters with Qi" by Dr. David M. Eisenberg M.D.

Basically, Dr. Eisenberg is a Harvard trained Medical Doctor who spent several years in China in a cross-study exchange with Chinese Hospital where he observed Chinese Medicine (acupuncture, qigong, herbs, massage) first hand. This book is the foundation for the Bill Moyers special "Healing & The Mind: Part 1 The Mystery of Chi"

(note chi & qi are the same word just different dialects..pronounced "chee")

In both the book and the special, Eisenberg recalls a meeting with Dr. Herbert Benson in China where the same test took place with a qigong master and a regular lightbulb was used. The results are mixed, but interesting read none the less.

in the end, this highly trained Western doctor says that he doesn't believe in qi, but acknowledges that something positive is happening in patients who use Chinese Medicine. It is the discovery of this something that should be the next step and not the promotion of "could be".

RSLancastr · 21st September 2007, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Spenser

in the end, this highly trained Western doctor says that he doesn't believe in qi, but acknowledges that something positive is happening in patients who use Chinese Medicine. It is the discovery of this something that should be the next step and not the promotion of "could be".

Is there any reason to believe that the "something positive" is anything but the placebo effect?

Vim Razz · 22nd September 2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by vladimir

Looking for some debunking of this guy: John Chang, a Chi healer in Indonesia.

Randi mentioned him back in april. (here)

thaiboxerken · 22nd September 2007, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by vladimir

The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED.

Do you think people who do the magic trick will show their spectators that they are using batteries?

c4ts · 23rd September 2007, 04:54 PM

All that magic healing chi in his eye, and he's still wearing an eyepatch when he talks to the camera.

Spenser · 24th September 2007, 06:31 AM

Yes there is. Under several controlled conditions, the placebo effect was ruled out as a possibility.

Garrette · 24th September 2007, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Spenser

Yes there is. Under several controlled conditions, the placebo effect was ruled out as a possibility.

I have doubts, but am willing to be shown wrong.

Details and link, please?

16th September 2007, 09:48 PM	#1
vladimir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13	John Chang's Chi videos on Youtube Looking for some debunking of this guy: John Chang, a Chi healer in Indonesia. Apparently one of his disciples, Kosta Danaos, published a book, called "The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal". What I found interesting was a video of this individual lighting up a LED. (watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt on Youtube). I doubt it's "paranormal" to have higher amounts of bioelectricity, but I'm looking for more informed opinions. Thanks, Vladimir
vladimir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13

17th September 2007, 04:09 PM	#3
vladimir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13	Thanks, KingMerv. The LED lighting sequence is visible after 1:50 before the movie ends. I joined because I wanted to search the forums, and for the life of me, I could not see a 'search' link. I think there are massive amounts of useful information in this forum, and it's a pity that performance considerations make the search available to members only. Thankfully, the forum is indexed by Google and one could use 'site:forums.randi.org' searches. And yes, 3 years of lurking... I'm slow to learn the netiquette ;-)
vladimir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13

17th September 2007, 09:46 PM	#4
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,078	Originally Posted by vladimir I doubt it's "paranormal" to have higher amounts of bioelectricity, but I'm looking for more informed opinions. It's a magic trick. Remove one of the LEDs and hold it in your fingertips. The bulb magically lights! The forum search link is in the black border at the top of the page.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

18th September 2007, 04:27 PM	#5
vladimir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13	Not very convincing Originally Posted by Gravy It's a magic trick. Remove one of the LEDs and hold it in your fingertips. The bulb magically lights! The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED. Originally Posted by Gravy The forum search link is in the black border at the top of the page. I really can't see this link when I'm not logged in. Could you perhaps post a screenshot? Looking at the source of the page reveals a link to a source.php, but that searches users, not discussions.
vladimir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 13

18th September 2007, 04:38 PM	#6
Denial Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 89	Vladimir, you're absolutely correct with regards to the search link not being visible to people who are not logged in.
Denial Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 89

18th September 2007, 05:00 PM	#7
The Pig Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 171	Originally Posted by vladimir The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED. Randi disapproves of the disclosing of magic secrets on the forum. The link shows that you can buy a magic trick to achieve the effect - it doesn't explain how the effect is achieved. Maybe when Dynamo Jack achieves exactly the same effect, he uses Chi.
The Pig Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 171

21st September 2007, 10:57 AM	#8
Spenser New Blood Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2	For an interesting perspective on this, I recommend reading the book "Encounters with Qi" by Dr. David M. Eisenberg M.D. Basically, Dr. Eisenberg is a Harvard trained Medical Doctor who spent several years in China in a cross-study exchange with Chinese Hospital where he observed Chinese Medicine (acupuncture, qigong, herbs, massage) first hand. This book is the foundation for the Bill Moyers special "Healing & The Mind: Part 1 The Mystery of Chi" (note chi & qi are the same word just different dialects..pronounced "chee") In both the book and the special, Eisenberg recalls a meeting with Dr. Herbert Benson in China where the same test took place with a qigong master and a regular lightbulb was used. The results are mixed, but interesting read none the less. in the end, this highly trained Western doctor says that he doesn't believe in qi, but acknowledges that something positive is happening in patients who use Chinese Medicine. It is the discovery of this something that should be the next step and not the promotion of "could be".
Spenser New Blood Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2

21st September 2007, 02:03 PM	#9
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 17,135	Originally Posted by Spenser in the end, this highly trained Western doctor says that he doesn't believe in qi, but acknowledges that something positive is happening in patients who use Chinese Medicine. It is the discovery of this something that should be the next step and not the promotion of "could be". Is there any reason to believe that the "something positive" is anything but the placebo effect?
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

22nd September 2007, 09:26 AM	#10
Vim Razz Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 361	Originally Posted by vladimir Looking for some debunking of this guy: John Chang, a Chi healer in Indonesia. Randi mentioned him back in april. (here)
Vim Razz Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 361

22nd September 2007, 09:57 AM	#11
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 32,473	Originally Posted by vladimir The site gives no explanation as to how lighting the LEDs works, but it mentions batteries. In the video it appears that John Chang is not using anything (oh well... it's a video) but his fingers, and one of the filmmakers acts as the ground for the LED. Do you think people who do the magic trick will show their spectators that they are using batteries?
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

23rd September 2007, 04:54 PM	#12
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,420	All that magic healing chi in his eye, and he's still wearing an eyepatch when he talks to the camera.
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,420

24th September 2007, 06:31 AM	#13
Spenser New Blood Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2	Yes there is. Under several controlled conditions, the placebo effect was ruled out as a possibility.
Spenser New Blood Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2

24th September 2007, 06:34 AM	#14
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,768	Originally Posted by Spenser Yes there is. Under several controlled conditions, the placebo effect was ruled out as a possibility. I have doubts, but am willing to be shown wrong. Details and link, please?
	__________________ My kids still love me.