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#1 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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Gravy Papers concerning Rodriguez: Split from: Loose Change vs. William Rodriguez
Why should people give money to an organization run by someone who has problems with honesty? ![]() Screenshot taken today. http://www.william911.com/ While you're here, William, I had sent you a couple of emails asking if you could confirm the story John Schroeder tells, which Avery and Badillo say involves you helping him find an exit from the north tower. You didn't reply. Any comment? |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#2 |
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 23
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#3 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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#4 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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No, I'm stating that you're dishonest, William. Here's a test: were you the last survivor of the north tower?
I don't even know what organization you're talking about. Which is it? I have amply illustrated that you're dishonest, horribly-informed, and that you show terrible judgment about 9/11. It's been almost five months since I wrote my paper and you haven't pointed out a single thing I got wrong. You won't even answer the questions in the thread that you're posting in. |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#5 |
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 23
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I was the last person to exit the North Tower at the moment of the collapse. In the earlier interviews and coverage, I was called the Last Survivor inplying the exiting. It was reported by the media and by me, erroneously and then by many articles that I was the last person pulled from the rubble. I was not. I was pulled, but after me there were other survivors. I am a survivor last to exit the building at the moment of the collapse. I corrected after meeting some of those survivors myself, Specially on that same day of the Picture that you posted calling me dishonest.
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I will grant you- maybe horribly informed, but dishonest? and you wonder why I ignore you Gravy? You have been quiet lately, so please come back with all your attacks. Also since you were not succesful in getting me on the "show", do not try to do the show here, is not going to happen. Why did you lie about my statements? |
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#6 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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#7 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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Name one thing I've gotten wrong, William.
And answer these questions, please, which you continue to avoid: Were you the last survivor of the north tower? Do you still dispute the first responder accounts of huge fires in WTC 7? Edit: And what is your organization? When I click on the Paypal "donate" button on your site, it says "William Rodriguez Mission." Does that money go to your personal account? |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#8 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,743
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William:
It would go along way if you would simple answer the questions and not try to redirect. You seem to be dodging gravy which lurkers are only going to see as an admission of guilt. I think Avery is wrong to cut you out, but I have no desire to get into a debate about motives. Just my $.02 |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#9 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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Sigh.
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#10 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 72
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#11 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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The whole thing makes me so sad.
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#12 |
AI-EE-YAH!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,354
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The derailing of the thread makes a great excuse for willie to stop posting and run.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken |
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#13 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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OK let's try a different approach.
William, close your eyes and pretend you're sitting in the witness box at a new investigation. Hundreds of people are watching, the TV cameras of the world are on you. You tell your (new and improved) story and there's a buzz of amazement in the room. Then you're cross examined by some really important guy in a suit and he asks "Mr. Rodriguez, why has your story changed?" "Were you the last survivor of the north tower? Yes or no." How would you answer those questions? Think of this as a training run for your big day. |
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#14 |
NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
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#15 |
NWO Master Conspirator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
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#16 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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Oh, I see he edited his post to add this passage:
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Why does it still say three times on the front page of your website that you were the last survivor? ![]() Testimony of William Rodriguez Last Survivor of the North Tower of the World Trade Center Now on DVD Your other website is last-man-out.com. Your 2007 European and Malaysian tour was titled William Rodriguez: Last Man Out My paper came out in May. In this video Rodriguez laughs, "It helped me immensely. He became my publicist and he don't even know it." In that video he says, "The truth is the truth. It should be told whatever it is." As long as you refuse to learn, I'll keep publicizing your lies and ignorance, William. My fee is 10% of your gross. June, 2007, London Muslim Centre:
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July 2:
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July 7: "I saved hundreds of people but I don't feel like I achieved what I set out to do on that day. ...He was happy to do it, he says, but became disillusioned when the government did not investigate the attacks and put the blame at the door of Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. ...There were explosions in the building before the plane hit. This should have been investigated and it was not. We also heard something heavy moving on the 34th floor. Some people say there was a company working in there but that company always worked in the South Tower. ...I was offered millions of dollars from Hollywood and deal after deal from every publishing company but I stayed away from that. I wanted to maintain my integrity. |
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"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#17 |
AI-EE-YAH!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,354
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken |
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#18 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Inland NW
Posts: 4,942
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Normal in a weird way. |
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#19 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,081
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Quickly, now: does this mean you were blown up? I don't recall Mark ever claiming that he was there. He shows in his paper that you were not aware of the collapse of the South Tower. He demonstrates the evolution of your story. Someone on 911blogger asked the reasonable question, the elephant in this parlor, "what does Mark Roberts get wrong?" Significantly, you never get around to telling us. Of course you are not going to attempt to "correct" Mark. He's not the one who is twisting the facts. Interest in the show has vanished. There was a time when people thought it important to resolve the contradictions in your story. You have resolved them. |
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#20 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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I pointed out at least these two problems in Gravy's paper.
- He gives no source for his assertion that Rodriguez was about 100 ft from the tower when it collapsed. - He is suggesting that the event which injures Arturo Griffin is the same as the event witnessed by Rodriguez in the elevator shaft. This is absurd to say the least since a very significant period of time passes between the two separate events. I have also pointed out that whereas Rodriguez has reported witnessing the fireball, he never concluded it was jet fuel. As an example of Gravy's poor twisting of his words, there is this passage in Gravy's paper: "There were jet fuel fireballs in the basement. Remember? You said this: 'When the explosion happened in the basement there was fire all over, and this guy tried to cover his face… '” (Video: William Rodriguez An American Hero. 2005, Snowshoe Films) What Rodriguez calls an "explosion" Gravy concludes was "jet fuel fireballs". Couldn't the explosion have been caused by something else? I don't doubt for a second that Mr. Rodriguez could have spoken incorrectly at one time or another over the course of his nearly six years of public speaking. Who here claims that they speak perfectly 100% of the time? The level of character assassination that is going on here is discouraging to say the least. I've yet to find an example of the kind of gross mendacity that Rodriguez is being accused of. As usual this smacks of fear and desperation from those who know deep in their heart that Mr. Rodriguez's primary claim of having heard explosions in the basement level below him before the N. Tower is hit, strikes at the heart of the official story. You must destroy his credibility because you cannot face up to his initial claim. Nothing better exemplifies this than those attempts at describing an excruciatingly slow fireball. Good luck on that guys, it's your very last hope. |
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(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
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It seems this is an inconvenient thread for Mr. Rodriguez.
William, you are aware that calling yourself the "Last Survivor of the North Tower" is quite deceptive, don't you? |
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#22 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,743
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RedIbus:
Who corroborates William's story? Remember this must be someone we all can trust. |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#23 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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From initial injury to the fireball in the elevator shaft, the account of Arturo Griffin that Gravy himself includes in his paper, corroborates William's story.
Not only do I expect that you "trust" Gravy, there is an unquestioning loyalty to his "research" which is ironic for a skeptic's forum. |
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(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#24 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,081
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You are one confused fantasist, Red Ibis. No explosions occurred before the impact of the planes because the seismic data compiled by the Lamont-Doherty labs don't show any evidence for them. Your revision of Willie's story is creative, but it lacks the endorsement of--Willie! Tell us why he lies so often and grotesquely misrepresents his actions on the day of the jihadist attacks. Tell us why he changed his story. |
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#25 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,743
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__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#26 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,498
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Quote:
HE was "the last man out." You can't question "the last man out." You just have to accept everything he says as a gospel truth, even if it conflicts with other evidence, eyewitness accounts, events of the day, etc. He was there. That's, in his mind, what makes his stories infallible. And the Troofers know it. |
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#27 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#28 |
Downsitting Citizen
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,078
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__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard |
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#29 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,517
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It sure does strike at the heart of the official story, but unfortunately for William, the Twoofers, and yourself, it instead misses the hangnail on the left pinky toe of the official story by about 100', seeing as Mr. Rodriguez cannot possibly know when the plane strikes the tower.
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"why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid |
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#30 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,244
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#31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,120
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still no fact, you are running true to the 9/11 truth goal of using no facts
If only you had one single fact! Too bad you come up fact less.
The explosions from devices containing RDX or dynamite would kill many people from conclusion, your explosive junk is false information made up by liars who are too challenged to understand reality. Are you able to understand reality or just make up stuff and talk? |
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#33 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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Is this really necessary? The irony shouldn't be missed that calling someone a "childish liar" without being able to back it up, is in fact, childish.
I made very specific criticisms of your paper. Telling people to ignore me is a very poor and transparent defense. I've had very civil and productive discussions with several people here. It's not impossible, it just has to be sincere. |
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(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#34 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,120
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if they only had some facts...
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#35 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,081
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Let's attempt a substantive discussion: The seismic data compiled by the Lamont-Doherty labs show no explosions prior to the plane impacts. Please explain. Jet fuel pouring down the elevator shafts did not create a fireball. Please explain. Willie Rodriguez has changed his story significantly and continues to exaggerate his heroics. Suggest a motive for him. |
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#36 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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__________________
(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#37 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,081
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An embarrassing retort, even for you. When you fantasize about the fireball being caused by something other than the jet fuel, you're speculating. When you pretend that there were explosions prior to the plane crashes--explosions that were not shown by the seismic data--you're speculating. Show us the errors you found in Mark's paper. So far, your "errors" have failed to impress. |
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#38 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,899
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I did. I posted this earlier. From Gravy's paper: "There were jet fuel fireballs in the basement. Remember? You said this: 'When the explosion happened in the basement there was fire all over, and this guy tried to cover his face… '” (Video: William Rodriguez An American Hero. 2005, Snowshoe Films) What Rodriguez calls an "explosion" Gravy concludes was "jet fuel fireballs". |
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(RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) |
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#39 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,081
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#40 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,120
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