Where is the evidence of molten steel in the rubble?

BenBurch

Gatekeeper of The Left
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
37,538
Location
The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one.
http://tinyurl.com/27ppeo (Sorry no http, I don't have enough posts to post a link yet and won't make no-info posts to get to the total...)

Any comments y'all can come up with on how I might argue this point better would be gratefully received.

(I'm not the best at argument when I think the people I am arguing with are dishonest...)

Thanks!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mostly second-hand accounts or GZ workers describing the metal as "steel."

There are no images of all this "steel," no test results confirming the metal type and no logical reason for it being steel as opposed to, say, alluminum.
 
They have provided you with ample evidence of molten metal and no evidence that that metal was steel.

We know that temperatures were hot enough to melt aluminum and molten aluminum is consistent with all available evidence.

Molten steel is not consistent with any of the evidence.
 
A good question for the "steel" believers would be

1) what caused it? (Answer: THERMITE!!!)

2) how much thermite would keep steel in a molten state for days/weeks?
 
tinyurl.com<add slash here>27ppeo (Sorry no http, I don't have enough posts to post a link yet and won't make no-info posts to get to the total...)

Any comments y'all can come up with on how I might argue this point better would be gratefully received.

(I'm not the best at argument when I think the people I am arguing with are dishonest...)

Thanks!!!
Ask them what "molten steel' would have to do with controlled demolition. Thermite (NEVER used in CD) also doesn't burn for weeks (watch utube videos). What's their point?
 
Also, there are no first-hand reports of "pools" of molten metal of any kind, nor reports of solidifed pools of previously molten metal found in the clean-up. Most likely the second-hand (& third-hand, etc.) accounts of "pools of molten [metal or steel]" resulted from extraplolation of the first-hand reports, reporters assuming that if there was a lot of flowing molten metal, it would naturally form "pools."

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Ask them what "molten steel' would have to do with controlled demolition. Thermite (NEVER used in CD) also doesn't burn for weeks (watch utube videos). What's their point?

I second that. The premise of the accusation is at fault in the first place. Purposeful demolitions do not leave pools of molten stuff around. Why is this an indication of foul play?
 
I second that. The premise of the accusation is at fault in the first place. Purposeful demolitions do not leave pools of molten stuff around. Why is this an indication of foul play?
The simple answer is to a CTists, everything is considered an indication of "foul play".

A more complex answer would be....actually there are no complex answers, refer back to the simple answer.
 
But is there ANY way to get through to them? I feel like if I just knew the right way to say the truth, they'd finally hear it.
As in my reply earlier I like the logical approach. You know the "does this REALLY make sense to you" line of reasoning. After awhile maybe they'll start to think.
 
The argument I've made against molten steel that seems to be the most effective (on pp. 84-85 of my whitepaper) concerns the quantity.

There are two competing theories: Either (a) there was only rare and incidental melting of steel at best, in which case we expect to find virtually no melted steel or iron, and what we find will be scattered or even microscopic; or (b) thermite or some other exceptional heat source was used, in which case we expect to find large volumes of melted steel or iron. Thermite, in particular, creates melted iron as part of its operation. The amounts of thermite the Truth Movement is speculating about are very large -- many tons of thermite, possibly hundreds of tons. We then expect to find either many tons of melted iron or virtually zero. There are no explanations for values in between.

Also, since the Truth Movement argues that only this malicious event could melt iron, then after the thermite or whatever had done its job, the melted iron that resulted would solidify into puddles or slag-like blobs, and would remain so indefinitely. There is no way for the "ordinary" fire that followed to re-melt or otherwise disturb these objects.

Therefore, for the thermite theory to be correct, we must find huge blobs or very many moderate blobs of formerly melted iron or steel when we clean up the pile.

We find none. The best we can do is quote-mine a few individuals, none of whom performed any tests, and at least two of whom (Leslie Robertson and Mike Loizeaux) have later confirmed they were quoted inaccurately.

The Truth Movement fails to appreciate that there is no middle-ground because they never get around to proposing a complete hypothesis. This is one of the many errors that pervades their thinking.

I don't know if that will settle the argument for you, as it's likely that nothing can, but it should convince anyone who has the ability to learn.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, the best they have are those two specks that Jones mis-identified from some chick's apartment obtained after demolition was underway.

Whoa! I missed that. Two specs pf aluminum/iron ammalgam? After clean-up and recovery were under way? Interesting. I would like to know more about that aspect. Like the total weight, when and where found.

There was a lot of torch work going on during the rescue phase alone, almost as soon as they could get welders in there to start cutting away debris, Is it hard for anyone to concieve of the possibility that there was aluminum in close proximity to some of the large standing columns that had to be cut?

Got a link to a more detailed report on the provenance of the spherules that had Jones so excited?
 
Dang! Maybe i should have looked at the site right off the bat.

I woulldn't count too much on educating at least half of those characters. Troll City, dude.

Atomic bomb and ERobertG have been banned from at least three boards that I have visited, ABomb under at least two sock screen names. He was dumb enough to post a picture of the "meteorite" to the Randi Rhodes Show board as Ic3Lights, but linked directly to his Atomic bomb Photobucket account

These are not bright people, okay?

Intersting point #2; Atomic Bomb and Killtown use the same avatar. Hmmm...

Okay. slapping my own face for having brought that ad hominem up in the first place.

I notice they have tight firewalls around that site, maybe to keep out people who are unwilling to give their ideas a head start down the rabbit hole?
 
Well, the firewalls are just what the board provider provides.

Believe it or not, I am actually a moderator in that nuthatch. But our bias is never to censor except when there are direct personal attacks and except when some non-public third party gets accused of something, we censor the post or the name.

Most people on the board are not into 9/11 conspiracies, or are LIHOPers who think the CDers are Barking Moonbats, hence having "ALL" posts concerning it moved to the September 11 forum.

And confession time; I think there was some weak form of LIHOP happening in the depraved indifference the Bush administration displayed towards investigation of terrorism in the first 2/3 of his first year in office. He was sternly warned not to allow that to happen, and did.
 
Last edited:
I'm more familiar with the White Rose in the context of Thom Hartmann's frequent referrences to it.

ERG and ABomb are not welcome there any more, either.

There does seem to be a concerted effort by certain trolls to take over liberal and progressive boards, especially those centered around the more rational liberal talk shows.

They are most welcome on the Mike Malloy board, but Mike is pretty much MIHOP. He was also fired from Air America. Guess he's the Alex Jones of the left, bit with a bit more class. (But then, how could he have less?)
 
Mostly second-hand accounts or GZ workers describing the metal as "steel."

There are no images of all this "steel," no test results confirming the metal type and no logical reason for it being steel as opposed to, say, alluminum.

So CHF, you point out there are no tests results for the metal type, but tend to ignore there were no test results for explosives. Why the hypocritical approach in the use of scientific testing?
 
Malloy's a good guy, and does not reject ideas out of hand if you present them respectfully, but some more people grounded in our point of view need to call in. I really should not as I work for the company that broadcasts his show.
 

Back
Top Bottom